that is actually "whatssamatta yew", a very tight grained and difficult
wood to work with. ;-)
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:44:49 GMT, TomL <[email protected]> brought forth
> from the murky depths:
>
>
>>Well, you COULD pony up a few more bucks and buy the entire set of
>>issues in an EBay auction. Upside is you get to look at the pretty
>>covers and get all the articles including the adverts.
>
>
> Woodworking-related ads are the one type I actually READ in a mag.
> But an incomplete set of FWW on the disc? That's assinine! What
> were they thinking, and at THAT price? <tsk tsk tsk>
>
>
>>Oh yeah, and disk is pretty much useless while you're sitting on the
>>crapper.
>
>
> WHAT? You don't keep your laptop in the throne room?
> Whassamatta you?
>
>
> ----------------------------------
> VIRTUE...is its own punishment
> http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
> ==================================================
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:44:49 GMT, TomL <[email protected]> brought forth
from the murky depths:
>Well, you COULD pony up a few more bucks and buy the entire set of
>issues in an EBay auction. Upside is you get to look at the pretty
>covers and get all the articles including the adverts.
Woodworking-related ads are the one type I actually READ in a mag.
But an incomplete set of FWW on the disc? That's assinine! What
were they thinking, and at THAT price? <tsk tsk tsk>
> Oh yeah, and disk is pretty much useless while you're sitting on the
>crapper.
WHAT? You don't keep your laptop in the throne room?
Whassamatta you?
----------------------------------
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
==================================================
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:19:53 GMT, "Windy Wood <jcarste1@"
<"NOSPAM>nycap.rr.com"> wrote:
>Has anybody sprung for the $150 for the Fine Woodworking complete
>collection on CD rom? I'm tempted but I've got about half of the issues
>going back to #3.
It's not a complete collection, it's "selected articles" and, at least
IMO, not worth the price.
STING!
"Dick Latshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<Nh4Qb.238912$ts4.106691@pd7tw3no>...
> > Dave
> >
> > Would you share you disk with us. I would like to look through it
without
> > having to cough up the cash
> >
> > Thanks in advance
>
> Idiot troll!
would any of you who have this disc be willing to somehow send me a
table of contents of an index of these 600 articles??? i would rather
pony up for the whole set if this is rather thin...
william
Jim Wilson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Test Tickle wrote...
> > Some
> > reasons are obvious -- a fifteen year old tool review no longer has
> > much value.
>
> Maybe not completely worthless. It might be good for a newbie to see the
> reviewer's evaluation methods. Could be useful for folks buying used
> tools, too.
>
> Jim
"Dusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<Nh4Qb.238912$ts4.106691@pd7tw3no>...
> Dave
>
> Would you share you disk with us. I would like to look through it without
> having to cough up the cash
>
> Thanks in advance
Idiot troll!
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:48:05 +0000, Test Tickle wrote:
> How about disc space? I bet mine is bigger. In my primary desktop I
> have a 30GB, 80GB, two 120 GB, and three 160 GB. And I still find I
> have to move stuff around to make room.
Well, I really was trying to explain my minimalist setup, and how far out
of the times I am.
Firewall: 486 DX100, 64MB mem(maxed) 512MB-Ide, RH6.2
My Desktop: pentiumMMX 233MHz, 256MB mem(maxed), 8GB SCSI/60GB-IDE,
RH9/XDE2
OverLords Desktop: Cyrix 333, 256MB mem(maxed), 8GB-IDE, MS-Win-2K
I have plenty of room as I keep archives on CD-R/RW. Probably using 30%
of disk space.
-Doug
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:40:20 +0000, Mark Jerde wrote:
> Creamy Goodness wrote:
>
>> 6 computers in the house, and 1 laptop for the crapper. Yes I'm a
>> computer geek.
>
> How many are actively used? I have 7 but the old 80486-33 and Pentium 166
> haven't been powered up in months. I should get rid of at least the 486 but
> it would feel a little like shooting an old relative in the nursing home.
> ;-) Gateway's 2nd of the top of the line, first model with a fast graphics
> slot, MS Access 2.0 programming *rocked* when I upgraded from 8 to 12 MB of
> RAM...
I'm down to three machines since the thinkpad died. One is a desktop 486
firewall running linux. When I had broadband available, it also ran a
mail server (sendmail) and webserver (apache), but since I moved and
dialup is the only option, it just does firewall duty and I got a hosting
company for email and web server. My "screamer" is a upgraded 286 chassis
with a AT2 MB and a pentium 233MMX running Linux (also is a
file/print/scanner server for the OL's machine), and the OverLords machine
is a Cyrix 333 (I think really a 266MHz) running Windoze 2000.
Yup, right on the bleeding edge....
-Doug
I have this on disk - one thing to note: It's not the complete collection.
Rather, it's a best of. I haven't used it extensively yet, but the few
times I have used it I was able to find an article that answered my
questions.
It seems very well put together with several different indexes:
Articles by Topic (with category & subcategory)
Index of articles by title and author
Methods of work by title and issue date
It's all acrobat based and also makes use of acrobat's search functionality.
Dave
"Windy Wood <jcarste1@ nycap.rr.com >" <"NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Has anybody sprung for the $150 for the Fine Woodworking complete
> collection on CD rom? I'm tempted but I've got about half of the issues
> going back to #3.
> Windy Wood
>
Test tickle
wood you care to share you copy of the CD
Thanks
would be nice to see
"Mike Alexander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Test Tickle wrote:
> > PS Some things are complete, such as all of the "Methods of Work"
> > columns.
>
> What about the project plans? Are they all there, or just a best of?
>
> ...Mike
Dave
Would you share you disk with us. I would like to look through it without
having to cough up the cash
Thanks in advance
"David Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have this on disk - one thing to note: It's not the complete
collection.
> Rather, it's a best of. I haven't used it extensively yet, but the few
> times I have used it I was able to find an article that answered my
> questions.
>
> It seems very well put together with several different indexes:
>
> Articles by Topic (with category & subcategory)
> Index of articles by title and author
> Methods of work by title and issue date
>
> It's all acrobat based and also makes use of acrobat's search
functionality.
>
> Dave
>
> "Windy Wood <jcarste1@ nycap.rr.com >" <"NOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Has anybody sprung for the $150 for the Fine Woodworking complete
> > collection on CD rom? I'm tempted but I've got about half of the issues
> > going back to #3.
> > Windy Wood
> >
>
>
Dusty keeps asking:
>Dave
>
>Would you share you disk with us. I would like to look through it without
>having to cough up the cash
>
>Thanks in advance
You expect these people to send you their disks for a bit? Or do you want them
to send you copies of coopyrighted material, thereby breaking the law for
someone they don't know?
Charlie Self
"Character is much easier kept than recovered." Thomas Paine
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
The second choice naturally. What do we care if someone gets busted just as
long as we get a copy of the software. :)
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Would you share you disk with us. I would like to look through it without
> >having to cough up the cash
>
> You expect these people to send you their disks for a bit? Or do you want
them
> to send you copies of coopyrighted material, thereby breaking the law for
> someone they don't know?
In article <_bbSb.138337$sv6.746975@attbi_s52>, "Christopher Pine" <remove nospam to reply ot me> wrote:
> I know that it is wrong period but makes you tempted to get access from
>sombody and burn a copy of the disk. I would not do it but non the less am
>tempted
>
Just curious.... what motivates someone to publicly advertise his temptation
to larceny? Were you perhaps soliciting offers while trying to appear not to?
Creamy Goodness wrote:
> 6 computers in the house, and 1 laptop for the crapper. Yes I'm a
> computer geek.
How many are actively used? I have 7 but the old 80486-33 and Pentium 166
haven't been powered up in months. I should get rid of at least the 486 but
it would feel a little like shooting an old relative in the nursing home.
;-) Gateway's 2nd of the top of the line, first model with a fast graphics
slot, MS Access 2.0 programming *rocked* when I upgraded from 8 to 12 MB of
RAM...
-- Mark
I know that it is wrong period but makes you tempted to get access from
sombody and burn a copy of the disk. I would not do it but non the less am
tempted
--
Chris Pine
www.penartists.com
Ever look at your watch then look away again and you don't know what time it
is?!
"Test Tickle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:42:27 -0800, Tim Douglass
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:10:22 GMT, Brian Henderson
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:19:53 GMT, "Windy Wood <jcarste1@"
> >><"NOSPAM>nycap.rr.com"> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Has anybody sprung for the $150 for the Fine Woodworking complete
> >>>collection on CD rom? I'm tempted but I've got about half of the issues
> >>>going back to #3.
> >>
> >>It's not a complete collection, it's "selected articles" and, at least
> >>IMO, not worth the price.
> >
> >This approach puzzles me with collections on CD. It really doesn't
> >take much more work to put the entire magazine on there, ads and all.
> >From a historical perspective that is one of the best things about old
> >magazines - the ads for stuff we wouldn't even consider ponying up
> >money for. For many years I saved one of my early Byte magazines,
> >where you could mail order a 5 *megabyte* hard drive for your Apple
> >II, as long as you were prepared to shell out about $8,000!
> >
> >Tim Douglass
> >
> >http://www.DouglassClan.com
>
> I love the ads too, and particularly enjoy seeing which new toys did
> or did not succeed. There was some pretty strange contraptions out
> there. But I also imagine there could be some sort of legal problems
> with reprinting ads -- can you imagine the boneheads that will try to
> order that TS at 1986 prices? Otherwise it would be less work to scan
> whole pages and issues and NOT crop out the ads and such.
>
> tt
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:42:27 -0800, Tim Douglass
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:10:22 GMT, Brian Henderson
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:19:53 GMT, "Windy Wood <jcarste1@"
>><"NOSPAM>nycap.rr.com"> wrote:
>>
>>>Has anybody sprung for the $150 for the Fine Woodworking complete
>>>collection on CD rom? I'm tempted but I've got about half of the issues
>>>going back to #3.
>>
>>It's not a complete collection, it's "selected articles" and, at least
>>IMO, not worth the price.
>
>This approach puzzles me with collections on CD. It really doesn't
>take much more work to put the entire magazine on there, ads and all.
>From a historical perspective that is one of the best things about old
>magazines - the ads for stuff we wouldn't even consider ponying up
>money for. For many years I saved one of my early Byte magazines,
>where you could mail order a 5 *megabyte* hard drive for your Apple
>II, as long as you were prepared to shell out about $8,000!
>
>Tim Douglass
>
>http://www.DouglassClan.com
I love the ads too, and particularly enjoy seeing which new toys did
or did not succeed. There was some pretty strange contraptions out
there. But I also imagine there could be some sort of legal problems
with reprinting ads -- can you imagine the boneheads that will try to
order that TS at 1986 prices? Otherwise it would be less work to scan
whole pages and issues and NOT crop out the ads and such.
tt
Humbug! That's what craptop computers are for.
They'll even let you read the disk in the outhouse, but are kind
of useless when you're out of paper.
Art
"TomL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Oh yeah, and disk is pretty much useless while you're sitting on the
> crapper.
>
> TomL
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:33:57 GMT, Mike Alexander <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Test Tickle wrote:
>> PS Some things are complete, such as all of the "Methods of Work"
>> columns.
>
>What about the project plans? Are they all there, or just a best of?
>
>...Mike
So far, all of the plans I've looked for have been there. But, it is
frustrating not knowing what is missing. If they could include a Table
of Contents, like they do on their website, so you could see which
articles are included and which aren't, it would be very welcome.
It's alot of money, and I waited and looked around at libraries and
such, but I finally broke down and bought it. I'm happy, but your
mileage may vary.
tt
"TomL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, you COULD pony up a few more bucks and buy the entire set of
> issues in an EBay auction. Upside is you get to look at the pretty
> covers and get all the articles including the adverts.
> Oh yeah, and disk is pretty much useless while you're sitting on the
> crapper.
>
> TomL
6 computers in the house, and 1 laptop for the crapper. Yes I'm a computer
geek. Best one I ever put in was the one "integrated" into the workbench.
Got access to the web, my music, email, NG, everything.
Mike Rinken
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:10:22 GMT, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:19:53 GMT, "Windy Wood <jcarste1@"
><"NOSPAM>nycap.rr.com"> wrote:
>
>>Has anybody sprung for the $150 for the Fine Woodworking complete
>>collection on CD rom? I'm tempted but I've got about half of the issues
>>going back to #3.
>
>It's not a complete collection, it's "selected articles" and, at least
>IMO, not worth the price.
This approach puzzles me with collections on CD. It really doesn't
take much more work to put the entire magazine on there, ads and all.
From a historical perspective that is one of the best things about old
magazines - the ads for stuff we wouldn't even consider ponying up
money for. For many years I saved one of my early Byte magazines,
where you could mail order a 5 *megabyte* hard drive for your Apple
II, as long as you were prepared to shell out about $8,000!
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:17:21 GMT, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:40:20 +0000, Mark Jerde wrote:
>
>> Creamy Goodness wrote:
>>
>>> 6 computers in the house, and 1 laptop for the crapper. Yes I'm a
>>> computer geek.
>>
>> How many are actively used? I have 7 but the old 80486-33 and Pentium 166
>> haven't been powered up in months. I should get rid of at least the 486 but
>> it would feel a little like shooting an old relative in the nursing home.
>> ;-) Gateway's 2nd of the top of the line, first model with a fast graphics
>> slot, MS Access 2.0 programming *rocked* when I upgraded from 8 to 12 MB of
>> RAM...
>
>I'm down to three machines since the thinkpad died. One is a desktop 486
>firewall running linux. When I had broadband available, it also ran a
>mail server (sendmail) and webserver (apache), but since I moved and
>dialup is the only option, it just does firewall duty and I got a hosting
>company for email and web server. My "screamer" is a upgraded 286 chassis
>with a AT2 MB and a pentium 233MMX running Linux (also is a
>file/print/scanner server for the OL's machine), and the OverLords machine
>is a Cyrix 333 (I think really a 266MHz) running Windoze 2000.
>
>Yup, right on the bleeding edge....
>
>-Doug
How about disc space? I bet mine is bigger. In my primary desktop I
have a 30GB, 80GB, two 120 GB, and three 160 GB. And I still find I
have to move stuff around to make room.
tt
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:42:27 -0800, Tim Douglass <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:10:22 GMT, Brian Henderson
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:19:53 GMT, "Windy Wood <jcarste1@"
>><"NOSPAM>nycap.rr.com"> wrote:
>>
>>>Has anybody sprung for the $150 for the Fine Woodworking complete
>>>collection on CD rom? I'm tempted but I've got about half of the issues
>>>going back to #3.
>>
>>It's not a complete collection, it's "selected articles" and, at least
>>IMO, not worth the price.
>
>This approach puzzles me with collections on CD. It really doesn't
>take much more work to put the entire magazine on there, ads and all.
I've done it with the first year of WOOD before I sold the mags themselves on
Ebay.
I used a scanner OCR and Adobe Acrobat. the hard part was turning the pages and
putting a blackout sheet behind the scanned page for each scan.
recreating a searchable digital recreation of the Mags themselves was easy.
>From a historical perspective that is one of the best things about old
>magazines - the ads for stuff we wouldn't even consider ponying up
>money for. For many years I saved one of my early Byte magazines,
>where you could mail order a 5 *megabyte* hard drive for your Apple
>II, as long as you were prepared to shell out about $8,000!
>
>Tim Douglass
>
>http://www.DouglassClan.com
Guess this approach keeps the prices up on the original hard copy
mags.
TomL
>>
>>It's not a complete collection, it's "selected articles" and, at least
>>IMO, not worth the price.
>
>This approach puzzles me with collections on CD. It really doesn't
>take much more work to put the entire magazine on there, ads and all.
>From a historical perspective that is one of the best things about old
>magazines - the ads for stuff we wouldn't even consider ponying up
>money for. For many years I saved one of my early Byte magazines,
>where you could mail order a 5 *megabyte* hard drive for your Apple
>II, as long as you were prepared to shell out about $8,000!
>
>Tim Douglass
>
>http://www.DouglassClan.com
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:19:53 GMT, "Windy Wood <jcarste1@"
<"NOSPAM>nycap.rr.com"> wrote:
>Has anybody sprung for the $150 for the Fine Woodworking complete
>collection on CD rom? I'm tempted but I've got about half of the issues
>going back to #3.
>Windy Wood
I have it and enjoy it very much. As someone else said, it doesn't
have every artickle from FWW, but it does have an awful lot. Some
reasons are obvious -- a fifteen year old tool review no longer has
much value. I think I'm only missing two issues from the whole run,
but find the CD to be very worthwhile.
tt
PS Some things are complete, such as all of the "Methods of Work"
columns.
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:17:19 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Test Tickle wrote:
>
>> How about disc space? I bet mine is bigger. In my primary desktop I
>> have a 30GB, 80GB, two 120 GB, and three 160 GB. And I still find I
>> have to move stuff around to make room.
>
>Hopefully you're doing something like video editing and not just trying to
>get Word documents the bosses like... ;-)
>
>
>I bought my first PC in 1983. I spent the extra approximately $2000 to get
>a 10 MB hard disk.
> "10 *mega* bytes? My god, what will you do with all that space???"
>In MS-DOS 1.0 with the 8.3 naming limitation that was a valid concern.
>(This was before Bill G. invented subdirectories. <g>) Have you ever tried
>to manage 800+ 8.3 files in the same directory? I was a (pre-ANSI) C
>programmer and had boatloads of extensions. *.ssa for assembler, *.sso for
>objects, *.ssy for a financial arithmetic library, *.ssx for ...
>
>Later on the 8086 machine was upgraded to 92k (that's k, not M) of RAM so a
>debugger could run.
>
>
>But woodworking machines haven't changed very much in the same timeframe...
><g>
>
> -- Mark
>
Not counting the Commodore 64, my first PC was an 8088 "Turbo" with
dual 5-1/4 floppies. I later added a 20mb harddrive, and honestly felt
I would never fill the sucker.
tt
On 16 Jan 2004 12:42:54 -0800, [email protected] (Larry Bud)
wrote:
>[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> Test Tickle writes:
>>
>> >Not counting the Commodore 64, my first PC was an 8088 "Turbo" with
>> >dual 5-1/4 floppies. I later added a 20mb harddrive, and honestly felt
>> >I would never fill the sucker.
>>
>> My first "PC" was a Kaypro with a single 5-1/4" floppy. Lost that in a house
>> fire and got a hotter model, with 2 5-1/4" floppy drives. Next up, a PC with a
>> 20 meg hard drive, 8088, 8 mHz. Never figured to need anything larger or
>> faster. So, now, a 3 gig P4, 1 gig of RAM and 2 120 gigabyte drives. At a cost
>> of about $1100 less than the first PC, or, for that matter, for the cp/m
>> Kaypro.
>
>It's even more than $1100 difference, if you take into account inflation.
>
>Probably more like $2500.
It's alot like televisions. When I was a kid, my folks paid the
equivalent of 3-4 weeks pay for a color TV that wouldn't impress a
six-year-old these days. You would have to work about one-fourth the
number of hours today to buy a far, far better machine.
And yet, most of us here still lust for the "old iron."
tt
On 17 Jan 2004 08:33:15 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Test Tickle writes:
>>And yet, most of us here still lust for the "old iron."
>
>Not me. I've owned "old iron" when it was new.
No more treadle jigsaws for you, eh, Charlie?
-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
Larry Jaques writes:
>>Test Tickle writes:
>>>And yet, most of us here still lust for the "old iron."
>>
>>Not me. I've owned "old iron" when it was new.
>
>No more treadle jigsaws for you, eh, Charlie?
Right. And no more '57 Chevs either. Not to mention older Studebakers (not new:
my father was a mechanic at Mt. Vernon [NY} Studebaker for years and we got the
used crap they couldn't sell elsewhere, which he and I then refurbished, though
there wasn't a helluva lot you could do at reasonable cost for the old flathead
6s). Even older Fords (again, not new, and in this case not running, but it was
the only way I could get a convertible in '54: '40 Ford).
Or maybe the old Thor power handtools. Electrocution waiting to happen.
Lightweight aluminum cases and straight wired, no ground, no internal
interrupts.
Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 17 Jan 2004 18:46:05 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques writes:
>
>>>Test Tickle writes:
>>>>And yet, most of us here still lust for the "old iron."
>>>
>>>Not me. I've owned "old iron" when it was new.
>>
>>No more treadle jigsaws for you, eh, Charlie?
>
>Right. And no more '57 Chevs either. Not to mention older Studebakers (not new:
Hey, an old 4-dr '57 Chevy with powerslide tranny was my very
first car, at age 15.5. I was running around on a Kawasaki 90
(street model) from then until I got my license at 16 and could
drive the car. Dad and I took it down to TJ and got it carpeted
(stock black, just like the stuff that came in it) and reupholstered
(black naugahyde stitched with nylon thread and stuffed with good
cotton batting--not hay or swept garage crap, we stayed and watched
the process) for a grand total of $25. I also spent a whole $1.93
for a Necker's Knob because even with a 18" steering wheel, without
power steering, that beast was a BITCH to turn. The second item I
had spent good money for (through JC Whitney, Chicagga) was a wolf
whistle. A cop pulled me over and said I couldn't have a siren on
the vehicle. I said "That was a wolf whistle you heard." and he said
"But you CAN make it sound like a siren, so it goes TODAY."
Ahhhh, good old days, BAD old tanklike vehicles.
>my father was a mechanic at Mt. Vernon [NY} Studebaker for years and we got the
>used crap they couldn't sell elsewhere, which he and I then refurbished, though
>there wasn't a helluva lot you could do at reasonable cost for the old flathead
>6s). Even older Fords (again, not new, and in this case not running, but it was
>the only way I could get a convertible in '54: '40 Ford).
I was born in '53, so you were driving when I was 1 y/o!
>Or maybe the old Thor power handtools. Electrocution waiting to happen.
>Lightweight aluminum cases and straight wired, no ground, no internal
>interrupts.
Free perms!
Don't forget the 7 P's:
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance
----------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
Test Tickle writes:
>It's alot like televisions. When I was a kid, my folks paid the
>equivalent of 3-4 weeks pay for a color TV that wouldn't impress a
>six-year-old these days. You would have to work about one-fourth the
>number of hours today to buy a far, far better machine.
In my case, it was a black & white floor model Philco (hell, that was before
Ford owned Philco...wonder who owns it now).
>
>And yet, most of us here still lust for the "old iron."
Not me. I've owned "old iron" when it was new.
Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Test Tickle writes:
>Not counting the Commodore 64, my first PC was an 8088 "Turbo" with
>dual 5-1/4 floppies. I later added a 20mb harddrive, and honestly felt
>I would never fill the sucker.
My first "PC" was a Kaypro with a single 5-1/4" floppy. Lost that in a house
fire and got a hotter model, with 2 5-1/4" floppy drives. Next up, a PC with a
20 meg hard drive, 8088, 8 mHz. Never figured to need anything larger or
faster. So, now, a 3 gig P4, 1 gig of RAM and 2 120 gigabyte drives. At a cost
of about $1100 less than the first PC, or, for that matter, for the cp/m
Kaypro.
Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:47:40 +0000, Larry Jaques wrote:
> Why does it still take 3 minutes to boot these guys? Because the
> programmers (companies they work for) have been lazy. Whac ould
> be done in 200 bytes/2kb of RAM back then now takes 6MB of space
> and 64MB of RAM now. Well, that and the fact that so many of our
> programs are automatically loaded now, so the computers are doing
> a whole lot more in the same time.
>
The lazy/inept programmer is one reason for the bloat/performance issues,
but a bigger reason is that pushing all these pixels around vs command
line stuff on a dumb tube uses a whole bunch more resources.
-Doug
Michael Baglio
> On 16 Jan 2004 14:21:48 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
> wrote:
>
>
>>My first "PC" was a Kaypro with a single 5-1/4" floppy.
>
>
> I grew up in Okinawa, and this is a very close approximation of my
> first computer: http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/april/abacus.jpg
>
> When I went off to college, Mom bought me one of these. It _rocked._
> http://www.davidthompson.co.uk/img15.gif
>
>
> On a totally unrelated note, a couple of years ago UNC Chapel Hill
> started _requiring_ freshmen students to have laptops.
>
> Michael
> who went to college when you could be expelled for sneaking a HP
> calculator into the exam room...
>
Hey, I think I've still got the one I bought on BC Street.
JOe
KHS 72, if we hadn't transferred in Oct 71
Say, don't you live in enemy territory?
Ah yes, the school of Richard Nixon and Danny Ferry.
Wasnt' this the school that exorcised the name of divinity when the
Tobacco family bought it?
--but they do have a good b-ball program (otherwise UNC wouldn't be
interested in them at all...).
Snickering,
H
Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Too bad they didn't require a brain instead of the laptop.
> (who went to school down the road in Raleigh)
>
> Michael Baglio
>
> >
> > On a totally unrelated note, a couple of years ago UNC Chapel Hill
> > started _requiring_ freshmen students to have laptops.
> >
> > Michael
Oops. The way that last post appeared on my browser made me think that
Michael has written it. I have no idea where Pat lives (bet it's not
Durham).
With fond memories,
H.
Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Too bad they didn't require a brain instead of the laptop.
> (who went to school down the road in Raleigh)
>
> Michael Baglio
>
> >
> > On a totally unrelated note, a couple of years ago UNC Chapel Hill
> > started _requiring_ freshmen students to have laptops.
> >
> > Michael
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Test Tickle writes:
>
> >Not counting the Commodore 64, my first PC was an 8088 "Turbo" with
> >dual 5-1/4 floppies. I later added a 20mb harddrive, and honestly felt
> >I would never fill the sucker.
>
> My first "PC" was a Kaypro with a single 5-1/4" floppy. Lost that in a house
> fire and got a hotter model, with 2 5-1/4" floppy drives. Next up, a PC with a
> 20 meg hard drive, 8088, 8 mHz. Never figured to need anything larger or
> faster. So, now, a 3 gig P4, 1 gig of RAM and 2 120 gigabyte drives. At a cost
> of about $1100 less than the first PC, or, for that matter, for the cp/m
> Kaypro.
It's even more than $1100 difference, if you take into account inflation.
Probably more like $2500.
On 16 Jan 2004 14:21:48 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Test Tickle writes:
>
>>Not counting the Commodore 64, my first PC was an 8088 "Turbo" with
>>dual 5-1/4 floppies. I later added a 20mb harddrive, and honestly felt
>>I would never fill the sucker.
>
>My first "PC" was a Kaypro with a single 5-1/4" floppy. Lost that in a house
>fire and got a hotter model, with 2 5-1/4" floppy drives. Next up, a PC with a
>20 meg hard drive, 8088, 8 mHz. Never figured to need anything larger or
>faster. So, now, a 3 gig P4, 1 gig of RAM and 2 120 gigabyte drives. At a cost
>of about $1100 less than the first PC, or, for that matter, for the cp/m
>Kaypro.
Dad's first box was a Kaypro upon which he wrote his book. IT
had dual 180k floppies. I wasn't into computers yet.
My first box was an Intel 80286 powered 8MHz PC with a massive
20MB hard drive and both 360k and 1.2MB floppies, a screamer!
The next was a 33MHz 486, then a P-133. All cost about the same
at around $1400 and each was about 8x the machine the last one
was. I now have an Athlon-powered 1.2GHz box with 40GB drive and
256MB of 333MHz memory. It cost $1,000 with a big 19" monitor.
I like it when things that I use on a daily basis become commodities.
It's just a wee bit cheaper. That 20MB drive was $300 (the 40G $99),
the first scanner $600 (last $40), the first faxmodem $300 (Intel
SatisFAXtion 9600 screamer, last a 56k for $23), my first 17" monitor
cost $579 (my new 19" $269), etc.
Why does it still take 3 minutes to boot these guys? Because the
programmers (companies they work for) have been lazy. Whac ould
be done in 200 bytes/2kb of RAM back then now takes 6MB of space
and 64MB of RAM now. Well, that and the fact that so many of our
programs are automatically loaded now, so the computers are doing
a whole lot more in the same time.
>"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
>Dorothy Parker
One t-shirt I bought eons ago says
Give me the luxuries of life.
I can live without the necessities.
-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
Larry Jaques writes:
>
>Why does it still take 3 minutes to boot these guys? Because the
>programmers (companies they work for) have been lazy. Whac ould
>be done in 200 bytes/2kb of RAM back then now takes 6MB of space
>and 64MB of RAM now. Well, that and the fact that so many of our
>programs are automatically loaded now, so the computers are doing
>a whole lot more in the same time.
But we're booting a lot more. That cp/m machine was a command line type, with,
IIRC, 7" screen and nothing even close to graphics. Now, my XP machine boots
with a photo of me chamfering the edge of a piece of Mesquite, and loads the
shortcuts for 20-30 programs (I'll be damned if I'll count them to write
this!). It also starts a couple virus and pop-eliminator programs, and probably
some other stuff. The cp/m machines didn't boot a damned thing until the floppy
went in and you typed in the a command.
Later, my 8088 PC did the same, but with an immense 12" monitor that I
eventually changed to a 15" Wyse black & white (my wife nearly had a conniption
because I paid $850 or so bucks for that: Wyse never wrote drivers for Windows,
so when I went to that, I was behind the 8 ball for another monitor, managed to
pick up a 17" refurb my wife still has on her machine...that cost $515, IIRC,
something under half the retail $1100. I paid over $435 for this ViewSonic 19"
and I think today they're selling for half that. It's on its third computer and
the other thing is on its fifth, I think, maybe fourth).
Charlie Self
"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
Dorothy Parker
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 16 Jan 2004 14:21:48 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>Test Tickle writes:
>
>>Not counting the Commodore 64, my first PC was an 8088 "Turbo" with
>>dual 5-1/4 floppies. I later added a 20mb harddrive, and honestly felt
>>I would never fill the sucker.
>
>My first "PC" was a Kaypro with a single 5-1/4" floppy. Lost that in a house
>fire and got a hotter model, with 2 5-1/4" floppy drives. Next up, a PC with a
>20 meg hard drive, 8088, 8 mHz. Never figured to need anything larger or
>faster. So, now, a 3 gig P4, 1 gig of RAM and 2 120 gigabyte drives. At a cost
>of about $1100 less than the first PC, or, for that matter, for the cp/m
>Kaypro.
>
>Charlie Self
>"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves."
>Dorothy Parker
>
>http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Giggle. CP/M. What memories.
tt
CP/M - nah, what you really wanted was TurboDOS:
multiuser (16 users, 2 per S100 Bus card - 2x Z80
processors w/ 64K ram). I'm just as glad I could
only afford to be the one and only user on that
machine: wouldn't want to have shared that
whopping (at the time) 10MB hard drive. (Right
MB, not GB) Walk over to alt.folklore.computer
and join us oldtimers once in awhile.
Bill
"Test Tickle" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
news:[email protected]...
> On 16 Jan 2004 14:21:48 GMT,
[email protected] (Charlie Self)
> wrote:
>
> >Test Tickle writes:
> >
> >>Not counting the Commodore 64, my first PC was
an 8088 "Turbo" with
> >>dual 5-1/4 floppies. I later added a 20mb
harddrive, and honestly felt
> >>I would never fill the sucker.
> >
> >My first "PC" was a Kaypro with a single 5-1/4"
floppy. Lost that in a house
> >fire and got a hotter model, with 2 5-1/4"
floppy drives. Next up, a PC with a
> >20 meg hard drive, 8088, 8 mHz. Never figured
to need anything larger or
> >faster. So, now, a 3 gig P4, 1 gig of RAM and 2
120 gigabyte drives. At a cost
> >of about $1100 less than the first PC, or, for
that matter, for the cp/m
> >Kaypro.
> >
> >Charlie Self
> >"Take care of the luxuries and the necessities
will take care of themselves."
> >Dorothy Parker
> >
>
>http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/bus
iness.html
>
>
> Giggle. CP/M. What memories.
>
> tt
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:44:50 -0500, Joe Gorman
<[email protected]> wrote:
>KHS 72, if we hadn't transferred in Oct 71
Kadena???
M--
On 16 Jan 2004 14:21:48 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>My first "PC" was a Kaypro with a single 5-1/4" floppy.
I grew up in Okinawa, and this is a very close approximation of my
first computer: http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/april/abacus.jpg
When I went off to college, Mom bought me one of these. It _rocked._
http://www.davidthompson.co.uk/img15.gif
On a totally unrelated note, a couple of years ago UNC Chapel Hill
started _requiring_ freshmen students to have laptops.
Michael
who went to college when you could be expelled for sneaking a HP
calculator into the exam room...
On 14 Jan 2004 09:37:52 -0800, [email protected] (William) wrote:
>would any of you who have this disc be willing to somehow send me a
>table of contents of an index of these 600 articles??? i would rather
>pony up for the whole set if this is rather thin...
>
>william
>
>
Check out the "Online Archive" (I think that's what it's called) at
the FWW website. The pdf documents that you can pay to download are
essentially those on the disc. I don't think there really is a way to
print out a TOC. You can do searches of the online archive to see what
turns up, and if it is to your liking.
tt
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 03:40:25 GMT, Jim Wilson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Test Tickle wrote...
>> Some
>> reasons are obvious -- a fifteen year old tool review no longer has
>> much value.
>
>Maybe not completely worthless. It might be good for a newbie to see the
>reviewer's evaluation methods. Could be useful for folks buying used
>tools, too.
>
>Jim
True enough.
tt
Test Tickle wrote:
> How about disc space? I bet mine is bigger. In my primary desktop I
> have a 30GB, 80GB, two 120 GB, and three 160 GB. And I still find I
> have to move stuff around to make room.
Hopefully you're doing something like video editing and not just trying to
get Word documents the bosses like... ;-)
I bought my first PC in 1983. I spent the extra approximately $2000 to get
a 10 MB hard disk.
"10 *mega* bytes? My god, what will you do with all that space???"
In MS-DOS 1.0 with the 8.3 naming limitation that was a valid concern.
(This was before Bill G. invented subdirectories. <g>) Have you ever tried
to manage 800+ 8.3 files in the same directory? I was a (pre-ANSI) C
programmer and had boatloads of extensions. *.ssa for assembler, *.sso for
objects, *.ssy for a financial arithmetic library, *.ssx for ...
Later on the 8086 machine was upgraded to 92k (that's k, not M) of RAM so a
debugger could run.
But woodworking machines haven't changed very much in the same timeframe...
<g>
-- Mark