Being married to a "real" Yankee, who is Scottish to boot, has had a marked
influence on me. I am now offically "frugal," though most would call it
cheap.
With that intro.
Several months ago I bought a 1600CFM dust collector from Harbor Freight. I
knew the 1600CFM was "optimistic." When it arrived what I had was a dust
collector with two very porous (30+ micron) bags, one to collect and one
for the "filter." So in effect there were two very porous filter bags. I
replaced the collection bag with a black plastic bag and the filter with a
"shaker felt" bag from Highland Hardware. Filtration increaded
dramatically, CFM dropped even more dramatically. I now had about a 600CFM
dust collector - at $149.95, still not a bad deal.
However, I decided to upgrade the system a bit. Lo and behold! CFM is now
up to about 1200.
Here is the upgrade, (total cost about $60.00)
I ordered to collector rings (Part #33) for my dust collector (model #
45378) at $14.35 a piece for a total of about $32.00 when s/h is added. I
ordered another "shaker felt" filter bag from Highland Hardware for $29.95,
about $34.00 with s/h.
I then built a box 21w X 42L X 5H box, divided it on the top into two
squares with a 5" cross piece, then put 2 1/2 wide peices around the inside
of each opening and triangular corner blocks to give me two octagonal
openings about 16"w. On the botton of the box i located a similar opening
in the center of the bottom. Then put two pieces of 1/4 luan between the
bottom frame and the upper ends to give me a slope for the dust to slide
down into the collection bag.
Then I mounted the box to the collector on the dust collector with angle
braces and caulked the joint. I took the two new collectors, cut most of
the inlet off of one and cut slots in the other inlet, then slid one inside
the other and screwed them together with sheet metal screws. I then
mounted the two collectors over the top holes, secured with angle braces
and caulked. Then attached the bags in their respective places and turned
it on. Worked like a champ. Total cost for a moveable 1200CFM dust
collector, about $220.00 (dust collector, collectors, bag)
Deb
You're right about the shipping, I never considered that I guess because Im
close enough to just go pick it up. Im as curious as you and the rest are
however about how Dr. Deb is measuring CFM's. If Bill is right about the 50%
rating then Dr. Debs actually started out as an 800, went through the mods
and then ended up as a 600 right? ....................................Easy,
I'm just jokin with ya!!
Jim
>
> Well, actually it's a bit more with the $55 shipping, but I'm stuck with
> 120 volts and 60 amps max for a while. I have to take the next model
> down and make the best of it. If there's a chance I can get better
> efficiency by adding another bag, whether it's really pulling 1200 CFM
> or not, I'm happy to listen. :-)
>
> And I believe Bill at http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/ :
> For any given dust collector you can pretty much figure you'll get half
> of what they rate it for, or worse, right off the bat.
>
> What I've also been considering is leaving the DC just the way it is,
> putting it in a corner and enclosing it in a bunch of good furnace
> filters on a 2x2 frame. The shop's pretty small, wouldn't need a lot of
> duct and hose to get it to every machine. Think that's worth an
experiment?
>
> Dan
>
Be careful when claiming "X" number of CFM in your dust-collection
system.
The CFM figures provided by most vendors who do not deal in industrial
systems sold to large commercial companies (those companies have
engineers who can spot phony specifications a mile away) use CFM
like Detroit uses "horsepower" in automobile engines. There is no
industry-standard set of conditions under which CFM is measured for
consumer goods, which means the company can invent any scheme they
want to get the highest CFM reading they can. As long as they can
prove that the machine moves that many CFM under conditions they
created, they aren't open for fraudulent representation.
Caveat emptor: "Let the buyer beware".
The only way to measure CFM and static pressure accurately is by using
a pitot tube inside the duct with a manometer or Magnahelic (R) gauge
setup. The numbers published by sellers of consumer-oriented dust
collectors have little connection to how the system will perform in
a real shop environment.
If you want to really understand dust collection, and how CFM relates
to having a safe shop, visit Bill Pentz's dust-collection web site at
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
Bill has designed a very effective cyclone dust collection unit with
recommended motor, impeller, blowers, etc.
I manufacture kits for the cyclone and blower housing, based on his
design. That info is on the same site at
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/ClarkesKits.cfm
There is a lot more to proper and effective dust collection than most
people realize. Time invested in learning can pay off many times over
in protection of your health. Wood dust can become fatal for some
woodworkers and I don't like taking those kinds of chances.
Clarke
"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Being married to a "real" Yankee, who is Scottish to boot, has had a
marked
> influence on me. I am now offically "frugal," though most would call it
> cheap.
>
> With that intro.
>
> Several months ago I bought a 1600CFM dust collector from Harbor Freight.
I
> knew the 1600CFM was "optimistic." When it arrived what I had was a dust
> collector with two very porous (30+ micron) bags, one to collect and one
> for the "filter." So in effect there were two very porous filter bags. I
> replaced the collection bag with a black plastic bag and the filter with a
> "shaker felt" bag from Highland Hardware. Filtration increaded
> dramatically, CFM dropped even more dramatically. I now had about a
600CFM
> dust collector - at $149.95, still not a bad deal.
>
> However, I decided to upgrade the system a bit. Lo and behold! CFM is
now
> up to about 1200.
>
> Here is the upgrade, (total cost about $60.00)
>
> I ordered to collector rings (Part #33) for my dust collector (model #
> 45378) at $14.35 a piece for a total of about $32.00 when s/h is added. I
> ordered another "shaker felt" filter bag from Highland Hardware for
$29.95,
> about $34.00 with s/h.
>
> I then built a box 21w X 42L X 5H box, divided it on the top into two
> squares with a 5" cross piece, then put 2 1/2 wide peices around the
inside
> of each opening and triangular corner blocks to give me two octagonal
> openings about 16"w. On the botton of the box i located a similar opening
> in the center of the bottom. Then put two pieces of 1/4 luan between the
> bottom frame and the upper ends to give me a slope for the dust to slide
> down into the collection bag.
>
> Then I mounted the box to the collector on the dust collector with angle
> braces and caulked the joint. I took the two new collectors, cut most of
> the inlet off of one and cut slots in the other inlet, then slid one
inside
> the other and screwed them together with sheet metal screws. I then
> mounted the two collectors over the top holes, secured with angle braces
> and caulked. Then attached the bags in their respective places and turned
> it on. Worked like a champ. Total cost for a moveable 1200CFM dust
> collector, about $220.00 (dust collector, collectors, bag)
>
I didn't follow you exactly, but roughly speaking, you added two bags to the
system to give better air flow. Is that about it?
Hey Dan, it was perfectly clear - in the mind of the writer. For the rest
of us, we're groping. I get very frustrated when someone tries to explain
something more complicated than a breadbox in words. It just doesn't work.
Bob
"Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Deb, can you draw a picture and send it to me or something? Can anybody
> explain what it is I'm not grasping? My mind's locked up. Why is this
thing
> so much better now?
>
> Dan
Got any pictures? Its hard to follow you verbal description.
How did you determine how much CFM you were getting? I don't know of any
way to measure it.
How big is the motor on your collector? There's hardly any difference in
capacity among collectors if the blower is properly designed and sized to
the motor capacity.
Bob
"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Being married to a "real" Yankee, who is Scottish to boot, has had a
marked
> influence on me. I am now offically "frugal," though most would call it
> cheap.
>
> With that intro.
>
> Several months ago I bought a 1600CFM dust collector from Harbor Freight.
I
> knew the 1600CFM was "optimistic." When it arrived what I had was a dust
> collector with two very porous (30+ micron) bags, one to collect and one
> for the "filter." So in effect there were two very porous filter bags. I
> replaced the collection bag with a black plastic bag and the filter with a
> "shaker felt" bag from Highland Hardware. Filtration increaded
> dramatically, CFM dropped even more dramatically. I now had about a
600CFM
> dust collector - at $149.95, still not a bad deal.
>
> However, I decided to upgrade the system a bit. Lo and behold! CFM is
now
> up to about 1200.
>
> Here is the upgrade, (total cost about $60.00)
>
> I ordered to collector rings (Part #33) for my dust collector (model #
> 45378) at $14.35 a piece for a total of about $32.00 when s/h is added. I
> ordered another "shaker felt" filter bag from Highland Hardware for
$29.95,
> about $34.00 with s/h.
>
> I then built a box 21w X 42L X 5H box, divided it on the top into two
> squares with a 5" cross piece, then put 2 1/2 wide peices around the
inside
> of each opening and triangular corner blocks to give me two octagonal
> openings about 16"w. On the botton of the box i located a similar opening
> in the center of the bottom. Then put two pieces of 1/4 luan between the
> bottom frame and the upper ends to give me a slope for the dust to slide
> down into the collection bag.
>
> Then I mounted the box to the collector on the dust collector with angle
> braces and caulked the joint. I took the two new collectors, cut most of
> the inlet off of one and cut slots in the other inlet, then slid one
inside
> the other and screwed them together with sheet metal screws. I then
> mounted the two collectors over the top holes, secured with angle braces
> and caulked. Then attached the bags in their respective places and turned
> it on. Worked like a champ. Total cost for a moveable 1200CFM dust
> collector, about $220.00 (dust collector, collectors, bag)
>
> Deb
Like the others, I need a picture. Could you take one and post it at ABPW
(alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking)?
I think what you did was turned your single bag collector into a dual bag
collector by making a plywood manifold. Two new shaker bags on top to
filter and either one or two black plastic bags hanging below to collect the
goodies. Am I close?
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Being married to a "real" Yankee, who is Scottish to boot, has had a
marked
> influence on me. I am now offically "frugal," though most would call it
> cheap.
>
> With that intro.
>
> Several months ago I bought a 1600CFM dust collector from Harbor Freight.
I
> knew the 1600CFM was "optimistic." When it arrived what I had was a dust
> collector with two very porous (30+ micron) bags, one to collect and one
> for the "filter." So in effect there were two very porous filter bags. I
> replaced the collection bag with a black plastic bag and the filter with a
> "shaker felt" bag from Highland Hardware. Filtration increaded
> dramatically, CFM dropped even more dramatically. I now had about a
600CFM
> dust collector - at $149.95, still not a bad deal.
>
> However, I decided to upgrade the system a bit. Lo and behold! CFM is
now
> up to about 1200.
>
> Here is the upgrade, (total cost about $60.00)
>
> I ordered to collector rings (Part #33) for my dust collector (model #
> 45378) at $14.35 a piece for a total of about $32.00 when s/h is added. I
> ordered another "shaker felt" filter bag from Highland Hardware for
$29.95,
> about $34.00 with s/h.
>
> I then built a box 21w X 42L X 5H box, divided it on the top into two
> squares with a 5" cross piece, then put 2 1/2 wide peices around the
inside
> of each opening and triangular corner blocks to give me two octagonal
> openings about 16"w. On the botton of the box i located a similar opening
> in the center of the bottom. Then put two pieces of 1/4 luan between the
> bottom frame and the upper ends to give me a slope for the dust to slide
> down into the collection bag.
>
> Then I mounted the box to the collector on the dust collector with angle
> braces and caulked the joint. I took the two new collectors, cut most of
> the inlet off of one and cut slots in the other inlet, then slid one
inside
> the other and screwed them together with sheet metal screws. I then
> mounted the two collectors over the top holes, secured with angle braces
> and caulked. Then attached the bags in their respective places and turned
> it on. Worked like a champ. Total cost for a moveable 1200CFM dust
> collector, about $220.00 (dust collector, collectors, bag)
>
> Deb
On Thu 01 Jan 2004 09:48:30p, "Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Several months ago I bought a 1600CFM dust collector from Harbor
> Freight. I knew the 1600CFM was "optimistic."
I bought that same DC just before Christmas.
> However, I decided to upgrade the system a bit. Lo and behold! CFM
> is now up to about 1200.
Curious: How are you measuring your CFM?
> Here is the upgrade, (total cost about $60.00)
>
> I ordered two collector rings (Part #33) for my dust collector (model #
> 45378) at $14.35 a piece for a total of about $32.00 when s/h is
> added. I ordered another "shaker felt" filter bag from Highland
> Hardware for $29.95, about $34.00 with s/h.
Two of those metal rings that separate the two cloth bags. Okay...
> I then built a box 21w X 42L X 5H box,
A plywood box, 21 inches by 42 inches, by 5 inches high? Or is that five
feet?
Lemme see here...
> divided it on the top into two
> squares with a 5" cross piece, then put 2 1/2 wide pieces around the
> inside of each opening and triangular corner blocks to give me two
> octagonal openings about 16"w. On the botton of the box i located a
> similar opening in the center of the bottom. Then put two pieces of
> 1/4 luan between the bottom frame and the upper ends to give me a
> slope for the dust to slide down into the collection bag.
>
> Then I mounted the box to the collector on the dust collector with
> angle braces and caulked the joint.
Boy, I wish I had pictures of this. You mounted the box on the original
collector ring. To the top or the bottom of the ring?
> I took the two new collectors,
> cut most of the inlet off of one and cut slots in the other inlet,
> then slid one inside the other and screwed them together with sheet
> metal screws. I then mounted the two collectors over the top holes,
> secured with angle braces and caulked. Then attached the bags in
> their respective places and turned it on. Worked like a champ. Total
> cost for a moveable 1200CFM dust collector, about $220.00 (dust
> collector, collectors, bag)
Damn this communications barrier!
I can't understand. I can't get a picture in my mind of what's happening. I
see two collector rings, one inside the other, stuck on top of the original
collector ring, a box underneath that, and two bags, um, someplace. Or
maybe one of the two collector rings isn't completely inside the other one.
Isn't the dust just roaring out all those extra holes?
Deb, can you draw a picture and send it to me or something? Can anybody
explain what it is I'm not grasping? My mind's locked up. Why is this thing
so much better now?
Dan
On Thu 01 Jan 2004 10:53:23p, "Bob Davis"
<[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Hey Dan, it was perfectly clear - in the mind of the writer. For the
> rest of us, we're groping. I get very frustrated when someone tries
> to explain something more complicated than a breadbox in words. It
> just doesn't work.
Yeah, and I can't blame Deb for it. This is where words just plain fail.
I've been on the other end of this problem more times than I want to
remember. But I'm gonna get this one, dadblast it! :-)
Dan
On Fri 02 Jan 2004 11:07:09p, "James D Kountz" <[email protected]>
wrote in news:[email protected]:
> You're right about the shipping, I never considered that I guess
> because Im close enough to just go pick it up.
I envy that. :-)
>Im as curious as you
> and the rest are however about how Dr. Deb is measuring CFM's. If Bill
> is right about the 50% rating then Dr. Debs actually started out as an
> 800, went through the mods and then ended up as a 600 right?
> ....................................Easy, I'm just jokin with ya!!
>
I figure it started at about 800, dropped when it got the new bag, and
increased when it got the second one. I like the 45 CFM/sqr ft constant, it
seems plausible for getting a ball park figure. Maybe a little more when
new, a little less when caked, but at least it's a place to start. I also
believe Steve Knight when he says it's probably not even close to 1200,
but even if you got it back up around 800 with felt bags... oh, you were
joking. Never mind. :-)
James D Kountz wrote:
> First thing that popped into my mind was that for about $30-40 more one
> could just buy the Grizzly collector (G1029Z - pg 120 of the new catalog)
> which is now being shipped with a .3 micron bag and does 1550 cfm already.
> Nothing to build or swap out just hook it up and it sucks!!
>
> Jim
Well, actually it's a bit more with the $55 shipping, but I'm stuck with
120 volts and 60 amps max for a while. I have to take the next model
down and make the best of it. If there's a chance I can get better
efficiency by adding another bag, whether it's really pulling 1200 CFM
or not, I'm happy to listen. :-)
And I believe Bill at http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/ :
For any given dust collector you can pretty much figure you'll get half
of what they rate it for, or worse, right off the bat.
What I've also been considering is leaving the DC just the way it is,
putting it in a corner and enclosing it in a bunch of good furnace
filters on a 2x2 frame. The shop's pretty small, wouldn't need a lot of
duct and hose to get it to every machine. Think that's worth an experiment?
Dan
Total cost for a moveable 1200CFM dust
>collector, about $220.00 (dust collector, collectors, bag)
your still not doing 1200 cfm. unless you have huge bags and I mean big. but
even then without bags I doubt you can do 1200. will with no pipe maybe (G)
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
First thing that popped into my mind was that for about $30-40 more one
could just buy the Grizzly collector (G1029Z - pg 120 of the new catalog)
which is now being shipped with a .3 micron bag and does 1550 cfm already.
Nothing to build or swap out just hook it up and it sucks!!
Jim
"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Total cost for a moveable 1200CFM dust
> collector, about $220.00 (dust collector, collectors, bag)
>
> Deb
I will make an attempt at a drawing and parts list on post to the
al.tbinaries.pictures.woodworking site sometime later today.
Deb
Dr. Deb wrote:
> Being married to a "real" Yankee, who is Scottish to boot, has had a
> marked
> influence on me. I am now offically "frugal," though most would call it
> cheap.
>
> With that intro.
>
> Several months ago I bought a 1600CFM dust collector from Harbor Freight.
> I
> knew the 1600CFM was "optimistic." When it arrived what I had was a dust
> collector with two very porous (30+ micron) bags, one to collect and one
> for the "filter." So in effect there were two very porous filter bags. I
> replaced the collection bag with a black plastic bag and the filter with a
> "shaker felt" bag from Highland Hardware. Filtration increaded
> dramatically, CFM dropped even more dramatically. I now had about a
> 600CFM dust collector - at $149.95, still not a bad deal.
>
> However, I decided to upgrade the system a bit. Lo and behold! CFM is
> now up to about 1200.
>
> Here is the upgrade, (total cost about $60.00)
>
> I ordered to collector rings (Part #33) for my dust collector (model #
> 45378) at $14.35 a piece for a total of about $32.00 when s/h is added. I
> ordered another "shaker felt" filter bag from Highland Hardware for
> $29.95, about $34.00 with s/h.
>
> I then built a box 21w X 42L X 5H box, divided it on the top into two
> squares with a 5" cross piece, then put 2 1/2 wide peices around the
> inside of each opening and triangular corner blocks to give me two
> octagonal
> openings about 16"w. On the botton of the box i located a similar opening
> in the center of the bottom. Then put two pieces of 1/4 luan between the
> bottom frame and the upper ends to give me a slope for the dust to slide
> down into the collection bag.
>
> Then I mounted the box to the collector on the dust collector with angle
> braces and caulked the joint. I took the two new collectors, cut most of
> the inlet off of one and cut slots in the other inlet, then slid one
> inside
> the other and screwed them together with sheet metal screws. I then
> mounted the two collectors over the top holes, secured with angle braces
> and caulked. Then attached the bags in their respective places and turned
> it on. Worked like a champ. Total cost for a moveable 1200CFM dust
> collector, about $220.00 (dust collector, collectors, bag)
>
> Deb