Hi folks,
I am entirely new to this ng, though I subscribe regularly to a couple of
others.
A Google search showed that this topic has been addressed before to some
extent, but I couldn't find complete coverage of my question. If I'm
breaking your local netiquette rules, I apologise in advance.
The question is this:
Can Danish Oil (Cabot brand) be used as a grain filler/primer for
polyurethane (same brand) and/or nitrocellulose (different brand)?
The project is an all-mahogany guitar on which I want a thin high quality
gloss finish that brings out the natural look of the timber. There is no
plastic in the construction, but there is some MOP. I would be using spray
can or brush on. I would, in fact, be satisfied to leave it with a Danish
Oil finish, but a gloss topcoat would be a big bonus.
Thanks
Tony D
"Tony Done" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:wA%[email protected]...
> Hi folks,
>
> I am entirely new to this ng, though I subscribe regularly to a couple of
> others.
>
<snip>
> The question is this:
>
> Can Danish Oil (Cabot brand) be used as a grain filler/primer for
> polyurethane (same brand) and/or nitrocellulose (different brand)?
>
> The project is an all-mahogany guitar on which I want a thin high quality
> gloss finish that brings out the natural look of the timber. There is no
> plastic in the construction, but there is some MOP. I would be using spray
> can or brush on. I would, in fact, be satisfied to leave it with a Danish
> Oil finish, but a gloss topcoat would be a big bonus.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony D
>
>
I have used Watco oil, which is one form of Danish oil, the technique I use
is to apply a liberal amount of Watco and rub it into the workpiece with 400
wet & dry, using a figure 8 motion, this forms a slurry which acts to fill
in the grain. Rub the excess off after about 10 mins and repeat another one
or two coats of Watco, you should get a reasonable shine at this point. You
can apply more Watco if you wish, but you can also apply a rub on poly if
you desire, you need to wait a minimum of 72 hrs. after the last coat of
Watco.
Bernard R
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:42:56 GMT, "Tony Done" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Thanks Eric, a useful link.
Eric gave you the link to the article, but not to the rest of my www
site (not a problem, Eric). There is another article on the site which
is more geared towards the actual filling process.
>The process I had planned involved a lot of soaking and wet sanding over
>many applications, as I have finished gunstocks in the "London" style with
>linseed and (cheating here) accelerator. The Danish Oil should be easier,
>because it dries hard in a fairly short time, ie about a week. The link gave
>me a good idea of time scales, which I was guessing would be shorter
>(minutes rather than hours) than those he suggests.
>FWIW, I checked the MSDS sheet on the Cabot's Danish Oil, and the main
>ingredients are polymers and solvents, no oil listed, unless it is a
>component of the small amount of unspecified ingredients.
>
>Tony D
>
Many modern Danish and 'Tung' oil finishes are more similar to thinned
varnishes than they are to true traditional oil finishes.
You can indeed fill with oil, but it can be a very long and slow
process. And you can topcoat over an oil finish with a film finish,
although I still don't understand the proclivity of many people to do
so on a regular basis. If you choose to do this, you must be certain
to allow the oil finish to fully cure prior to topcoating.
Fillers are made for filling, and a pore filler is generally the right
product to use. It's a single-step process when done correctly. French
polishing is another possible method of filling, and since the process
uses shellac, it dries quickly and generally causes no problems with
subsequent topcoats.
This falls into the been there, done that category, and you may find
the following link interesting:
http://home.insightbb.com/~jpaquay/gallery1.html
Scroll all the way down.
When you get tired of that, you can use the link at the bottom of the
page to go find the filling article.
The method I used (and have used countless times over the years) was
to seal the wood with sanding sealer, then fill the pores of the
rosewood and mahogany with tinted pore filler. The sanding sealer
prevents the tinted filler from staining the wood. When the filler is
dry, you sand off the sealer and proceed with sealing and topcoating.
A very straightforward method that leaves the actual wood crystal
clear and clean, while filling the pores with a suitably-colored
filler material.
John
John Paquay
[email protected]
"Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets"
http://home.insightbb.com/~jpaquay/shop.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
With Glory and Passion No Longer in Fashion
The Hero Breaks His Blade. -- Kansas, The Pinnacle, 1975
------------------------------------------------------------------
The last time I put a gloss finish on mahogany I used a filler from
Pratt & Lambert and then stained and lacquered. That was in the mid
1950s so I don't know if Pratt & Lambert still sells their filler but I
remember it as being a good product.
RB
Tony Done wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am entirely new to this ng, though I subscribe regularly to a couple of
> others.
>
> A Google search showed that this topic has been addressed before to some
> extent, but I couldn't find complete coverage of my question. If I'm
> breaking your local netiquette rules, I apologise in advance.
>
> The question is this:
>
> Can Danish Oil (Cabot brand) be used as a grain filler/primer for
> polyurethane (same brand) and/or nitrocellulose (different brand)?
>
> The project is an all-mahogany guitar on which I want a thin high quality
> gloss finish that brings out the natural look of the timber. There is no
> plastic in the construction, but there is some MOP. I would be using spray
> can or brush on. I would, in fact, be satisfied to leave it with a Danish
> Oil finish, but a gloss topcoat would be a big bonus.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony D
>
>
Thanks Eric, a useful link.
The process I had planned involved a lot of soaking and wet sanding over
many applications, as I have finished gunstocks in the "London" style with
linseed and (cheating here) accelerator. The Danish Oil should be easier,
because it dries hard in a fairly short time, ie about a week. The link gave
me a good idea of time scales, which I was guessing would be shorter
(minutes rather than hours) than those he suggests.
FWIW, I checked the MSDS sheet on the Cabot's Danish Oil, and the main
ingredients are polymers and solvents, no oil listed, unless it is a
component of the small amount of unspecified ingredients.
Tony D
"Eric Yancey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm not sure about putting poly over danish oil, others here can address
> that.
>
> But if you're looking for a how-to on applying danish oil over wood like
> mahogany, check out this link:
>
> http://home.insightbb.com/~jpaquay/oil_fin.txt
>
> I followed this when finishing a mahogany bar top and the results were
> amazing. It ended up incredibly smooth.
>
> good luck,
>
> Eric
>
>
> "Tony Done" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:wA%[email protected]...
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I am entirely new to this ng, though I subscribe regularly to a couple
of
> > others.
> >
> > A Google search showed that this topic has been addressed before to some
> > extent, but I couldn't find complete coverage of my question. If I'm
> > breaking your local netiquette rules, I apologise in advance.
> >
> > The question is this:
> >
> > Can Danish Oil (Cabot brand) be used as a grain filler/primer for
> > polyurethane (same brand) and/or nitrocellulose (different brand)?
> >
> > The project is an all-mahogany guitar on which I want a thin high
quality
> > gloss finish that brings out the natural look of the timber. There is no
> > plastic in the construction, but there is some MOP. I would be using
spray
> > can or brush on. I would, in fact, be satisfied to leave it with a
Danish
> > Oil finish, but a gloss topcoat would be a big bonus.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tony D
> >
> >
>
>
John, thanks for the links and advice.
I'm very much feeling my way with this, as I seem to have no natural ability
with finishing - most of my experiences have been bad ones. I could get the
job done professionally with nitrocellulose, but that would cost maybe
US$700, and anyway I would at least like to try it myself. A major technical
difficulty is that the bridge and neck are already attached, so I have to
try and get a neat look in the angles created thereby.
The danish oil is very easy to use, and at least I understand the wet
sanding process, more than I can say for dedicated grain fillers and
sealers.
The brand of Danish Oil I can get (Cabot's) seems to set hard (couldn't mark
it with my fingernail when set on a hard surface) in a few days, and the
final finish will be very thin, also highly desirable. (I read somewhere
that medieval lutes were finished with egg white!) I anticipate that the
thinness will make it fragile, but no worse than french polish, and
hopefully, just as easily repaired.
Another plus I have found is that Danish Oil seems to be highly compatible
with super glue, so that any repairs I missed in the initial stages, such as
slightly open seams, can be fixed on the run without a lot of work.
I thought I might try a final wash coat to get a gloss finish. Can you
suggest a slow evaporating solvent to use as a thinner, which will allow
time to apply the wash with a pad?
Tony D
"John Paquay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:42:56 GMT, "Tony Done" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Thanks Eric, a useful link.
>
> Eric gave you the link to the article, but not to the rest of my www
> site (not a problem, Eric). There is another article on the site which
> is more geared towards the actual filling process.
>
> >The process I had planned involved a lot of soaking and wet sanding over
> >many applications, as I have finished gunstocks in the "London" style
with
> >linseed and (cheating here) accelerator. The Danish Oil should be easier,
> >because it dries hard in a fairly short time, ie about a week. The link
gave
> >me a good idea of time scales, which I was guessing would be shorter
> >(minutes rather than hours) than those he suggests.
>
> >FWIW, I checked the MSDS sheet on the Cabot's Danish Oil, and the main
> >ingredients are polymers and solvents, no oil listed, unless it is a
> >component of the small amount of unspecified ingredients.
> >
> >Tony D
> >
>
> Many modern Danish and 'Tung' oil finishes are more similar to thinned
> varnishes than they are to true traditional oil finishes.
>
> You can indeed fill with oil, but it can be a very long and slow
> process. And you can topcoat over an oil finish with a film finish,
> although I still don't understand the proclivity of many people to do
> so on a regular basis. If you choose to do this, you must be certain
> to allow the oil finish to fully cure prior to topcoating.
>
> Fillers are made for filling, and a pore filler is generally the right
> product to use. It's a single-step process when done correctly. French
> polishing is another possible method of filling, and since the process
> uses shellac, it dries quickly and generally causes no problems with
> subsequent topcoats.
>
> This falls into the been there, done that category, and you may find
> the following link interesting:
>
> http://home.insightbb.com/~jpaquay/gallery1.html
>
> Scroll all the way down.
> When you get tired of that, you can use the link at the bottom of the
> page to go find the filling article.
>
> The method I used (and have used countless times over the years) was
> to seal the wood with sanding sealer, then fill the pores of the
> rosewood and mahogany with tinted pore filler. The sanding sealer
> prevents the tinted filler from staining the wood. When the filler is
> dry, you sand off the sealer and proceed with sealing and topcoating.
> A very straightforward method that leaves the actual wood crystal
> clear and clean, while filling the pores with a suitably-colored
> filler material.
>
> John
>
>
> John Paquay
> [email protected]
>
> "Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets"
> http://home.insightbb.com/~jpaquay/shop.html
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> With Glory and Passion No Longer in Fashion
> The Hero Breaks His Blade. -- Kansas, The Pinnacle, 1975
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure about putting poly over danish oil, others here can address
that.
But if you're looking for a how-to on applying danish oil over wood like
mahogany, check out this link:
http://home.insightbb.com/~jpaquay/oil_fin.txt
I followed this when finishing a mahogany bar top and the results were
amazing. It ended up incredibly smooth.
good luck,
Eric
"Tony Done" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:wA%[email protected]...
> Hi folks,
>
> I am entirely new to this ng, though I subscribe regularly to a couple of
> others.
>
> A Google search showed that this topic has been addressed before to some
> extent, but I couldn't find complete coverage of my question. If I'm
> breaking your local netiquette rules, I apologise in advance.
>
> The question is this:
>
> Can Danish Oil (Cabot brand) be used as a grain filler/primer for
> polyurethane (same brand) and/or nitrocellulose (different brand)?
>
> The project is an all-mahogany guitar on which I want a thin high quality
> gloss finish that brings out the natural look of the timber. There is no
> plastic in the construction, but there is some MOP. I would be using spray
> can or brush on. I would, in fact, be satisfied to leave it with a Danish
> Oil finish, but a gloss topcoat would be a big bonus.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony D
>
>
If you mean can you over coat a Danish oil with poly and have it stick, yes
you can but let it cure first.
If you are asking if you can seal the open pores of mahogany with it the
practical answer is no.
Danish oil is, well, an oil finish. It is not meant to build and form a
surface finish. Oh, put enough of the stuff on and it eventually will build
to a soft, possibly gooey surface but if you want a surface finish you'd be
better served by using a surface finish rather then trying to make a finish
do something it isn't actually meant to do..
If filling the open pores of the mahogany is your aim you can use a
commercial wood filler, coats of shellac or thinned coats of your ultimate
finish, applied and sanded back till the pores are filled to the level of
the surrounding wood.
In other words you want something that will build, be compatible with your
finish, not detract from the looks of your finished product and can be
easily cut back until the pores are filled.
Danish oil doesn't fill the bill.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Tony Done" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:wA%[email protected]...
> Hi folks,
>
> I am entirely new to this ng, though I subscribe regularly to a couple of
> others.
>
> A Google search showed that this topic has been addressed before to some
> extent, but I couldn't find complete coverage of my question. If I'm
> breaking your local netiquette rules, I apologise in advance.
>
> The question is this:
>
> Can Danish Oil (Cabot brand) be used as a grain filler/primer for
> polyurethane (same brand) and/or nitrocellulose (different brand)?
>
> The project is an all-mahogany guitar on which I want a thin high quality
> gloss finish that brings out the natural look of the timber. There is no
> plastic in the construction, but there is some MOP. I would be using spray
> can or brush on. I would, in fact, be satisfied to leave it with a Danish
> Oil finish, but a gloss topcoat would be a big bonus.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony D
>
>
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 05:11:00 GMT, "Tony Done" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>I thought I might try a final wash coat to get a gloss finish. Can you
>suggest a slow evaporating solvent to use as a thinner, which will allow
>time to apply the wash with a pad?
>
>Tony D
>
Mineral spirits is relatively slow to evaporate, much more so than
naphtha (paint thinner). You may still have to work fast, though. I'm
not familiar with the Cabot's Danish oil or how quickly it tacks up.
You might opt for a wiping varnish, which would be compatible with the
Danish oil. You could thin the varnish further if needed, but it will
give you a nice, very thin topcoat, and you should have at least 15
minutes or so to get it applied before you begin to have problems with
drying. I personally like General Finishes 'Royal Finish', but there
are others that are similar. Just be sure your application pad is
absolutely lint-free. Definitely worth a test trial.
John
John Paquay
[email protected]
"Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets"
http://home.insightbb.com/~jpaquay/shop.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
With Glory and Passion No Longer in Fashion
The Hero Breaks His Blade. -- Kansas, The Pinnacle, 1975
------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the replies. I have decided to go with Danish Oil on this guitar,
since I want a very thin finish, and the satin look is OK for this style of
instrument, a kona.
FWIW, some Cabot Danish Oil I put on a bit of metal a couple weeks ago has
set as hard as rocks, so I'm optimistic it will not end up gooey. I think
the "oil" description may be misleading. From its MSDS and behaviour it
seems more like a very slow drying polyurethane that doesn't have much of a
"tacky" phase.
Tony D
"Tony Done" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:wA%[email protected]...
> Hi folks,
>
> I am entirely new to this ng, though I subscribe regularly to a couple of
> others.
>
> A Google search showed that this topic has been addressed before to some
> extent, but I couldn't find complete coverage of my question. If I'm
> breaking your local netiquette rules, I apologise in advance.
>
> The question is this:
>
> Can Danish Oil (Cabot brand) be used as a grain filler/primer for
> polyurethane (same brand) and/or nitrocellulose (different brand)?
>
> The project is an all-mahogany guitar on which I want a thin high quality
> gloss finish that brings out the natural look of the timber. There is no
> plastic in the construction, but there is some MOP. I would be using spray
> can or brush on. I would, in fact, be satisfied to leave it with a Danish
> Oil finish, but a gloss topcoat would be a big bonus.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony D
>
>