While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the Leigh
mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture made
with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
"old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available today
do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting? Craftsmanship aside, does a
somewhat rough joint significantly less strong than a perfectly fitted
joint over time?
Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
dramatically stronger joint.
Jim
I looked at this jig pretty good before passing on it. Its price is just
ridiculous when you look at other methods of making the same joint. A decent
mortiser is anywhere from $175-250 and tenons are easily made on the table
saw, router etc. I shop built a very very simple tenon jig that if all my
tools and equipment worked as good as it does Id be delighted. Its just a
right angle fixture that slides on my table saw fence with a toggle clamp.
Took me about 20 minutes to build. That and a mortiser makes the joint quick
and easy.
Jim
"Eric Lund" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the
> Leigh
> > mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture
> made
> > with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
> >
> > I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
> > "old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available
today
> > do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting? Craftsmanship aside,
does
> a
> > somewhat rough joint significantly less strong than a perfectly fitted
> > joint over time?
> >
> > Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
> > dramatically stronger joint.
> >
> > Jim
>
> Depends partly on the glue you are going to use. If your are using
> aliphatic resin glues (TiteBond Yellow Woodworkers Glue, for instance), is
> is not gap filling. I will resist moisture better and hold stronger than
> hide glue, but if your joint doesn't fit, it won't improve your joint.
> Gorilla Glue, a polyurethane glue, purports to fill gaps, but the small
> print is that the gap filling property is a very weak foam. So, if your
> joints aren't well fitted, it's actually WORSE to use Gorilla Glue.
Plastic
> Resin glues, as used by David Marks on Woodworks, dry very hard (and
> ridgid), are nearly waterproof, are gap filling, and have a very long open
> time. So, if your are going to make bad joints, this may be the stuff for
> you.
>
> OTOH, you don't need an $800 machine, which BTW, requires another $150 -
> $350 machine to even make it work (the router). You can make perfectly
good
> joints with hand saws, planes chisels, drills and such. You can also make
> perfectly good joints with just a tablesaw and a router. I saw a
> demonstration by Yeung Chan on Chinese joinery. He disassembles and
> reassembles a replica Ming Dynasty chair he made from a post card picture
> and knowledge of Chinese joinery techniques. All the joints in the chair
> but one he demonstrates in his book how to make primarily with table saw
and
> router, with very little hand work. When reassembled, he sits in his
chair
> and takes questions. No glue, no nails, no screws. Very solid.
Important
> point - He contends that a joint should not be too tight, or there will be
> no room for the glue. That does not mean the joints fit badly, merely
that
> you can slide them apart and back together by hand (if you can figure out
> which piece is not locked in by the other joinery). No malletizing
> required.
>
> Cheers,
> Eric
>
>
In rec.woodworking
Jim <[email protected]> wrote:
>While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the Leigh
>mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture made
>with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
No doubt. Of course, that was the most common method of joinery hundreds
of years ago too.
>I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
>"old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available today
>do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting?
Nope
> Craftsmanship aside, does a somewhat rough joint significantly less strong
> than a perfectly fitted joint over time?
It would be better yes because if the glue is softer than the wood, it will
compress and the joint will loosen. If the glue is harder than the wood,
it may weaken the wood through racking over time. It may also be more
brittle and just crack.
>Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
>dramatically stronger joint.
Than what? I use a $99 mortiser and a homemade tall fence with a C-clamp
and get perfectly fit joints. In any event, while "dramatically stronger"
is subjective, I'd have to say no it does not. No way in hell it does
really if you take "dramatically stronger" to mean an order of magnitude.
Bruce responds:
>>While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the Leigh
>>mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture made
>>with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
>
>No doubt. Of course, that was the most common method of joinery hundreds
>of years ago too.
>
>>Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
>>dramatically stronger joint.
>
>Than what? I use a $99 mortiser and a homemade tall fence with a C-clamp
>and get perfectly fit joints. In any event, while "dramatically stronger"
>is subjective, I'd have to say no it does not. No way in hell it does
>really if you take "dramatically stronger" to mean an order of magnitude.
>
Probably not dramatically stronger, but my understanding is that the jig makes
the use of angled and muliple tenons a great deal easier and quicker: I've
watched it being used, and the speed is truly impressive, once you learn to set
the jig up (not a small chore, though). The second majorpoint in the jig's
favor, or so it seems to me, is the possibility of replication. You can make
the joint, and come back a week later using the same settings and repeat the
joint withint whatever fractional or decimal accuracy is possible with the
unit.
Charlie Self
"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is
sure."
Mark Twain
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
For a great discussion of round tenons, check Hoadley's Understanding Wood.
For square tenons, as indicated, pegs which register the shoulder to the
mortised piece are what the joint is about.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Chairs in particular have a lot of stresses put on them, and antiique
chairs
> have exhibited most of the M & T joint failures I've seen in furniture
down
> through the years ... very likely a result of a combination of things
> besides the stresses, including the "glue" of the period, and the fact
that
> with wood, which moves, joinery is never a sure thing. Inarguable
> manifestation of this observation is the cottage industry, of sorts, in
the
> guise of the "Chair Doctor" businesses.
>
> That said, I've rarely seen a chair from the same period with _pegged_ M &
T
> joints that exhibits as much joint failure.
Probably because the joints are too small to pin without weakening them.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That brings up an interesting point... How many of you folks routinely peg
> (Pin?) your M&T joints. I generally do, but I'm wondering if it's
overkill.
>
> Is there a reasony why pegs are not The RULE for chair joinery?
>
> FWIW, My house has some 1860 vintage storm windows made with pinned M&T
> joints. Where there were failures, it was not the joint, but the wood
itself
> that deteriorated due to 100 + years of harsh New England weather.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > That said, I've rarely seen a chair from the same period with _pegged_ M
&
> T
> > joints that exhibits as much joint failure.
> >
> > Strictly from this unscientifc observation, I'd infer that it may not be
a
> > bad idea to peg those M & T joints you suspect might not hold up. It is
> easy
> > to do, can be a nice design touch, and was done quite frequently before
> the
> > advent of relying strictly on glue.
> >
> > FWIW ...
> >
> > --
> > www.e-woodshop.net
> > Last update: 1/31/04
> >
> >
>
>
I wasn't doubting that it made them easier, I was just wondering about
the strength. I've been using mortise and tenons in my furniture quite a
bit lately and I was curious if I was fooling myself into thinking it was
a stronger joint than it actually was. I just finished up a bed for my
oldest daughter and am starting on one for my youngest and I was hoping
my work would last long enough for them to be handed down once or twice.
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Probably not dramatically stronger, but my understanding is that the
> jig makes the use of angled and muliple tenons a great deal easier and
> quicker: I've watched it being used, and the speed is truly
> impressive, once you learn to set the jig up (not a small chore,
> though). The second majorpoint in the jig's favor, or so it seems to
> me, is the possibility of replication. You can make the joint, and
> come back a week later using the same settings and repeat the joint
> withint whatever fractional or decimal accuracy is possible with the
> unit.
>
> Charlie Self
> "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then
> success is sure."
> Mark Twain
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
>
That brings up an interesting point... How many of you folks routinely peg
(Pin?) your M&T joints. I generally do, but I'm wondering if it's overkill.
Is there a reasony why pegs are not The RULE for chair joinery?
FWIW, My house has some 1860 vintage storm windows made with pinned M&T
joints. Where there were failures, it was not the joint, but the wood itself
that deteriorated due to 100 + years of harsh New England weather.
-Steve
> That said, I've rarely seen a chair from the same period with _pegged_ M &
T
> joints that exhibits as much joint failure.
>
> Strictly from this unscientifc observation, I'd infer that it may not be a
> bad idea to peg those M & T joints you suspect might not hold up. It is
easy
> to do, can be a nice design touch, and was done quite frequently before
the
> advent of relying strictly on glue.
>
> FWIW ...
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 1/31/04
>
>
"Jim" wrote in message
> I wasn't doubting that it made them easier, I was just wondering about
> the strength. I've been using mortise and tenons in my furniture quite a
> bit lately and I was curious if I was fooling myself into thinking it was
> a stronger joint than it actually was. I just finished up a bed for my
> oldest daughter and am starting on one for my youngest and I was hoping
> my work would last long enough for them to be handed down once or twice.
Obviously haven't lived long enough to see if my many M & T joints will
stand the test of time, but I'd bet that most will, with one possible
caveat - those in chairs.
Chairs in particular have a lot of stresses put on them, and antiique chairs
have exhibited most of the M & T joint failures I've seen in furniture down
through the years ... very likely a result of a combination of things
besides the stresses, including the "glue" of the period, and the fact that
with wood, which moves, joinery is never a sure thing. Inarguable
manifestation of this observation is the cottage industry, of sorts, in the
guise of the "Chair Doctor" businesses.
That said, I've rarely seen a chair from the same period with _pegged_ M & T
joints that exhibits as much joint failure.
Strictly from this unscientifc observation, I'd infer that it may not be a
bad idea to peg those M & T joints you suspect might not hold up. It is easy
to do, can be a nice design touch, and was done quite frequently before the
advent of relying strictly on glue.
FWIW ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/31/04
You don't need to glue a tenon. If the joint is properly loaded, all it
needs are a peg or two. Post and beam architecture, much less furniture,
attest to this.
When designing, your assembly should stand, as it will, without glue or
mechanical fasteners. Then the rest is gravy.
"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the
Leigh
> mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture
made
> with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
>
> I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
> "old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available today
> do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting? Craftsmanship aside, does
a
> somewhat rough joint significantly less strong than a perfectly fitted
> joint over time?
>
> Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
> dramatically stronger joint.
>
> Jim
I was joking of course. I agree with most of the posters that this
can be done with basic home-made jigs. I would hesitate to pay
$800 for anything without a power cord, even a miracle jig...
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in news:SuaTb.6840
> [email protected]:
>
> > Most jigs are not devised to only make joints more precise, but for
> > repeatability, and EASE most of all. Why would you want to spend
> > more time making a joints thats sloppier than if you'd used the jig.
> >
> > You can't afford NOT to buy that $800 contraption !
> >
>
> Dave, you OBVIOUSLY have not met either my wife or my wallet ;)
>
> I agree that it would make the job faster, and if I did this for a living
I
> could probably justify it. For the work I do though, I think it will be a
> long time before I can make the case to the CFO.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/2004
Oh no! Real woodworkers never use expensive machines or jigs. The test the
hell out of them but when it comes to the real thing they only use saws,
chisles and the occasional shark skin sandpaper.
Why, I understand that they don't even use glue. Their work fits so closely
that they get some kind of molecular bond.
mJ
"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the
Leigh
> mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture
made
> with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
>
> I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
> "old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available today
> do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting? Craftsmanship aside, does
a
> somewhat rough joint significantly less strong than a perfectly fitted
> joint over time?
>
> Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
> dramatically stronger joint.
>
> Jim
Or work for the company.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You must own one.
>
>
> "David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Most jigs are not devised to only make joints more precise, but for
> > repeatability, and EASE most of all. Why would you want to spend
> > more time making a joints thats sloppier than if you'd used the jig.
> >
> > You can't afford NOT to buy that $800 contraption !
>
>
"markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BkATb.168114$nt4.752266@attbi_s51...
> Oh no! Real woodworkers never use expensive machines or jigs. The test
the
> hell out of them but when it comes to the real thing they only use saws,
> chisles and the occasional shark skin sandpaper.
>
> Why, I understand that they don't even use glue. Their work fits so
closely
> that they get some kind of molecular bond.
>
>
You jest, yet I just attended a seminar where the presenter took his chair
apart, put it back together, then sat in it and fielded questions. No glue.
No screws. No nails. Just good joinery. I'm not talking wobbly either. I
felt it. It was rock solid. The presenter was Yeung Chan and the chair was
a replica Ming Dynasty chair done with all Chinese style joinery. All but
one of the joints is done with about 90% power tools. You have to see it to
believe it.
Cheers,
Eric
"David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Most jigs are not devised to only make joints more precise, but for
> repeatability, and EASE most of all. Why would you want to spend
> more time making a joints thats sloppier than if you'd used the jig.
>
> You can't afford NOT to buy that $800 contraption !
>
> --
Now that's just plain silly. If you aren't doing this for a living, I can
think of a lot of things to do with $800. How about taking the family on
vacation this year and getting some perspective on life in general. I would
suspect the average audience in this forum is non-professional, so the jig
has no way to pay for itself. That doesn't mean it's not worth the $800.
It just means that it's not worth that much to me and a lot of other people.
For a professional, it is quite possibly a serious time saver, and whether
you like it or not we are all, in the end, paid by the hour. For a tool
junkie, it's a status item. For an amateur whose more interested in the
result than the journey, it may be worth the $800.
I, for one, CAN afford to NOT buy it.
Most jigs are not devised to only make joints more precise, but for
repeatability, and EASE most of all. Why would you want to spend
more time making a joints thats sloppier than if you'd used the jig.
You can't afford NOT to buy that $800 contraption !
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the
Leigh
> mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture
made
> with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
>
> I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
> "old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available today
> do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting? Craftsmanship aside, does
a
> somewhat rough joint significantly less strong than a perfectly fitted
> joint over time?
>
> Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
> dramatically stronger joint.
>
> Jim
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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I still can't justify $800 for $30 in materials and maybe $50 in machining
time.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Richards" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jim wrote:
> > While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the
Leigh
> > mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture
made
> > with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
> >
> > I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
> > "old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available
today
> > do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting? Craftsmanship aside,
does a
> > somewhat rough joint significantly less strong than a perfectly fitted
> > joint over time?
> >
> > Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
> > dramatically stronger joint.
> >
> > Jim
>
> I'm biased, since I have the Leigh mortise/tennon jig. It is as good as
> advertised. I don't have a lot of time to handcut joints, nor do I want
> to settle for joints that are *almost* right. The Leigh jig makes it
> easy to make perfect mortise/tennon joints the first time. The manual
> that comes with the jig is excellent. Setup time is minimal.
> Repeatability is excellent. If you're serious about making mortise and
> tennon joints, you'll want to at least try out the jig. It comes with a
> thirty-day return priviledge.
>
> (By the way, I have a Jet Mortiser, a Delta tennoning jig for my
> Uni-saw, and about a dozen jigs that I've made for my routers over the
> years. The Leigh Jig does the best job in the least amount of time.)
>
> As far as a dramatically stronger joint is concerned. If you have the
> skills/tools to make a tight fitting mortise/tennon joint, then you've
> already achieved the ideal; however, if you need a tool that *helps* you
> make a tight fitting m/t join quickly and repeatably, without the need
> to clean-up with a chisel, consider the Leigh.
>
> Mike
>
Also, it stands to reason if you have one or two jobs to do, its never
going to be worth the $800 jig. If I did this day in and day out, or
made a living at fine furniture making, perhaps I'd throw down $800
for said jig... But for hobby use, my delta mortiser is plenty, and I
can use the router, or bandsaw & chisels for the tenons.
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in news:SuaTb.6840
> [email protected]:
>
> > Most jigs are not devised to only make joints more precise, but for
> > repeatability, and EASE most of all. Why would you want to spend
> > more time making a joints thats sloppier than if you'd used the jig.
> >
> > You can't afford NOT to buy that $800 contraption !
> >
>
> Dave, you OBVIOUSLY have not met either my wife or my wallet ;)
>
> I agree that it would make the job faster, and if I did this for a living
I
> could probably justify it. For the work I do though, I think it will be a
> long time before I can make the case to the CFO.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in news:SuaTb.6840
[email protected]:
> Most jigs are not devised to only make joints more precise, but for
> repeatability, and EASE most of all. Why would you want to spend
> more time making a joints thats sloppier than if you'd used the jig.
>
> You can't afford NOT to buy that $800 contraption !
>
Dave, you OBVIOUSLY have not met either my wife or my wallet ;)
I agree that it would make the job faster, and if I did this for a living I
could probably justify it. For the work I do though, I think it will be a
long time before I can make the case to the CFO.
Jim wrote:
> While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the Leigh
> mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture made
> with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
>
> I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
> "old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available today
> do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting? Craftsmanship aside, does a
> somewhat rough joint significantly less strong than a perfectly fitted
> joint over time?
>
> Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
> dramatically stronger joint.
>
> Jim
I'm biased, since I have the Leigh mortise/tennon jig. It is as good as
advertised. I don't have a lot of time to handcut joints, nor do I want
to settle for joints that are *almost* right. The Leigh jig makes it
easy to make perfect mortise/tennon joints the first time. The manual
that comes with the jig is excellent. Setup time is minimal.
Repeatability is excellent. If you're serious about making mortise and
tennon joints, you'll want to at least try out the jig. It comes with a
thirty-day return priviledge.
(By the way, I have a Jet Mortiser, a Delta tennoning jig for my
Uni-saw, and about a dozen jigs that I've made for my routers over the
years. The Leigh Jig does the best job in the least amount of time.)
As far as a dramatically stronger joint is concerned. If you have the
skills/tools to make a tight fitting mortise/tennon joint, then you've
already achieved the ideal; however, if you need a tool that *helps* you
make a tight fitting m/t join quickly and repeatably, without the need
to clean-up with a chisel, consider the Leigh.
Mike
Neither could I but I thought the topic of discussion was the leigh jig.
Which one are you talking about?
"Tbone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I still can't justify $800 for $30 in materials and maybe $50 in machining
> time.
Well I do make my living doing this kind of work along with being a general
contractor and builder of log homes. Cabinet work has been something I've
done on and off for about 20 years now. Now I'm not stating that to say I've
been doing it longer than anyone else. My point is that that overpriced jig
is not that much faster to justify the cost. And if you know what you're
doing you can make the joint just fine using one or more of many methods.
I've seen the demos, I got the video and I watched and helped a fellow
cabinetmaker use the Leigh. Its just not worth the cost. If it were to
substantially add time or quality to my job then fine its justifiable. If it
doesn't offer me either one of those things, its useless to me no matter
what kind of tool it is.
Jim
"Eric Lund" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Most jigs are not devised to only make joints more precise, but for
> > repeatability, and EASE most of all. Why would you want to spend
> > more time making a joints thats sloppier than if you'd used the jig.
> >
> > You can't afford NOT to buy that $800 contraption !
> >
> > --
>
> Now that's just plain silly. If you aren't doing this for a living, I can
> think of a lot of things to do with $800. How about taking the family on
> vacation this year and getting some perspective on life in general. I
would
> suspect the average audience in this forum is non-professional, so the jig
> has no way to pay for itself. That doesn't mean it's not worth the $800.
> It just means that it's not worth that much to me and a lot of other
people.
> For a professional, it is quite possibly a serious time saver, and whether
> you like it or not we are all, in the end, paid by the hour. For a tool
> junkie, it's a status item. For an amateur whose more interested in the
> result than the journey, it may be worth the $800.
>
> I, for one, CAN afford to NOT buy it.
>
>
The Leigh M & T jig.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Neither could I but I thought the topic of discussion was the leigh jig.
> Which one are you talking about?
>
>
> "Tbone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I still can't justify $800 for $30 in materials and maybe $50 in
machining
> > time.
>
>
Unless it's made in China, not at those prices.
"Tbone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Leigh M & T jig.
>
> --
> If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
>
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Neither could I but I thought the topic of discussion was the leigh jig.
> > Which one are you talking about?
> >
> >
> > "Tbone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I still can't justify $800 for $30 in materials and maybe $50 in
> machining
> > > time.
> >
> >
>
>
You must own one.
"David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Most jigs are not devised to only make joints more precise, but for
> repeatability, and EASE most of all. Why would you want to spend
> more time making a joints thats sloppier than if you'd used the jig.
>
> You can't afford NOT to buy that $800 contraption !
"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> While at the Woodworking show last week I saw a demonstration for the
Leigh
> mortise/tennon jig. The guy doing the demo pointed out that furniture
made
> with mortise and tennon joints lasted 100s of years.
>
> I can understand why an extremely well fitting joint was required in the
> "old days" since the glue wasn't great, but with the glue available today
> do the joints need to be as perfectly fitting? Craftsmanship aside, does
a
> somewhat rough joint significantly less strong than a perfectly fitted
> joint over time?
>
> Just curious if the $800 they wanted for the jig actually produced a
> dramatically stronger joint.
>
> Jim
Depends partly on the glue you are going to use. If your are using
aliphatic resin glues (TiteBond Yellow Woodworkers Glue, for instance), is
is not gap filling. I will resist moisture better and hold stronger than
hide glue, but if your joint doesn't fit, it won't improve your joint.
Gorilla Glue, a polyurethane glue, purports to fill gaps, but the small
print is that the gap filling property is a very weak foam. So, if your
joints aren't well fitted, it's actually WORSE to use Gorilla Glue. Plastic
Resin glues, as used by David Marks on Woodworks, dry very hard (and
ridgid), are nearly waterproof, are gap filling, and have a very long open
time. So, if your are going to make bad joints, this may be the stuff for
you.
OTOH, you don't need an $800 machine, which BTW, requires another $150 -
$350 machine to even make it work (the router). You can make perfectly good
joints with hand saws, planes chisels, drills and such. You can also make
perfectly good joints with just a tablesaw and a router. I saw a
demonstration by Yeung Chan on Chinese joinery. He disassembles and
reassembles a replica Ming Dynasty chair he made from a post card picture
and knowledge of Chinese joinery techniques. All the joints in the chair
but one he demonstrates in his book how to make primarily with table saw and
router, with very little hand work. When reassembled, he sits in his chair
and takes questions. No glue, no nails, no screws. Very solid. Important
point - He contends that a joint should not be too tight, or there will be
no room for the glue. That does not mean the joints fit badly, merely that
you can slide them apart and back together by hand (if you can figure out
which piece is not locked in by the other joinery). No malletizing
required.
Cheers,
Eric