In article <[email protected]>, Popt50
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Can live oak be used for building wood projects? I am about to have a live oak
> tree
> taken down and I would like to have the trunk cut into planks. I don't want to
> spend the money for sawing if it is not a good wood for projects.
>
> Thanks
>
> Don
Oak is great for lots of things. If you have it cut you need to stack
it with wood strips (stickers) spacing the layers and space between the
p[lanks for air circulation. It will need to air-dry for one year per
inch of thickness.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
In article <[email protected]>, Charlie Self
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Quercus virginiana. Coastal plain of the U.S. south from Virginia to southern
> Florida. Georgia state tree.
Did a web search... looks like a gorgeous shade tree.
Acorns, but the leaves are nothing like any oak I've seen, and it's an
evergreen!
Thanks to the OP and everyone else for the opportunity to learn
something.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
>This is what comes from living so far north... "live oak" is apparently
>a specific type of tree, rather than an oak tree that is alive.
>
>Learn sumpin' every day.
Quercus virginiana. Coastal plain of the U.S. south from Virginia to southern
Florida. Georgia state tree.
It is really a bitch to work...shipworkers used to try to find crotches and
limbs already shaped close to what they neede, because old tools had a hard
time with the distorted grain. New tools can also run into severe problems.
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 14 Dec 2003 05:43:19 -0800, [email protected] (Phil Crow)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>My grandmother and her neighbors have several down their road. In
>fact, the road splits twice to go around two huge live oaks. The lady
>across the street from my grandma has two live oaks in her yard that a
>guy-who-knows-a-buttload-about-trees (what's that guy called, anyway?)
Anal Arborist, maybe?
>looked at and were aged at over 400 years. They both have trunks of
>about 6 feet in diameter and a dripline of easily 150'. Pretty
>humbling, if you ask me. These trees were granddaddies before our
>nation was born. Dang.
That's the kind of tree that makes you all weak-in-the-knees like.
--
Save the Endangered ROAD NARROWS! -|- www.diversify.com
Ban SUVs today! -|- Full Service Websites
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <131220032041576035%[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >In article <[email protected]>, Charlie Self
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Quercus virginiana. Coastal plain of the U.S. south from Virginia to southern
> >> Florida. Georgia state tree.
> >
> >Did a web search... looks like a gorgeous shade tree.
> >
> >Acorns, but the leaves are nothing like any oak I've seen, and it's an
> >evergreen!
> >
> Not only is it evergreen, but it's deciduous too. It loses leaves, and grows
> new ones, continuously.
>
> --
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
No it isn't. It is either deciduous or evergreen.
Deciduous in reference to trees essentially means that all
the leaves fall off if a particular season, it doesn't just
mean the leaves fall off while others continue to grow which
they do do on pines.
Doug Miller wrote:
> Not only is it evergreen, but it's deciduous too. It loses leaves, and
> grows new ones, continuously.
Well, so do pine trees for that matter. Just look in Mom's swimming pool.
373 cubic miles of pine needles fall into the thing every twelve seconds
this time of year.
(I wonder where my son gets his propensity for exaggeration?)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> shipworkers used to try to find
> crotches and limbs already shaped close to what they neede, because
> old tools had a hard time with the distorted grain.>
You are mistaken here - shipwrights would try to find crotches, etc,
shaped close to what they needed because the grain would follow the
curve they were trying to form, thus resulting in a much stronger
piece.
The rest of what you wrote is about right, tho. Very hard to work,
prone to radically changing shape while drying, and not very
pretty to look at.
Best use for one would be to sell it to someone who cuts lumber
for wooden boat builders. There's still a need for natural knees
and crooks in that field.
John
Yes, we were supposed to go on a crotch hunting expedition for deck beam
supports before the funding dried up. See http://scmaritime.org/ a little
out of date, but our new webmaster's working on it. We're working on
several other sources for funding, so we may be going on a road trip
sometime after the first of the year.
Joe
John McCoy wrote:
> [email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>shipworkers used to try to find
>>crotches and limbs already shaped close to what they neede, because
>>old tools had a hard time with the distorted grain.>
>
>
> You are mistaken here - shipwrights would try to find crotches, etc,
> shaped close to what they needed because the grain would follow the
> curve they were trying to form, thus resulting in a much stronger
> piece.
>
> The rest of what you wrote is about right, tho. Very hard to work,
> prone to radically changing shape while drying, and not very
> pretty to look at.
>
> Best use for one would be to sell it to someone who cuts lumber
> for wooden boat builders. There's still a need for natural knees
> and crooks in that field.
>
> John
Very common tree here in Texas. AAMOF, the Spanish name for oak, encina,
graces a town or two with names like 'Encinal', which loosely translated to
a grove of live oaks from whence the towns sprung. Many of the old land deed
records, especially the large Spanish grants, still have boundary
descriptions of "so many varas to a live oak for a corner, then NW so many
varas to another live oak for a corner ..."
I've seen some old live oaks whose branches easily cover an area 150'+ in
diameter. IIRC, there was also a species that was native to Baja California
when I visited there many years ago.
You need to write a book, Charlie. ;>)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> >This is what comes from living so far north... "live oak" is apparently
> >a specific type of tree, rather than an oak tree that is alive.
> >
> >Learn sumpin' every day.
>
> Quercus virginiana. Coastal plain of the U.S. south from Virginia to
southern
> Florida. Georgia state tree.
>
> It is really a bitch to work...shipworkers used to try to find crotches
and
> limbs already shaped close to what they neede, because old tools had a
hard
> time with the distorted grain. New tools can also run into severe
problems.
Charlie Self wrote:
> I'm working on it. The live oak is a lovely tree in a squatty sort of
> way...and down in the S. Carolina and Georgia areas, it is usually heavily
> draped with Spanish moss, making it even more gothic looking. The tend not
> to be much mroe than 50' tall, and while 150' is probably unusual, I'd
> guess half that isn't, maybe even 2/3.
They generally look to me like they would be hard to mill. I don't think
I've ever seen one that wasn't crooked and low-branched. Sort of like an
incredibly enormous bonsai. I've run across some huge ones, and I'd say
some up to 150' across. Better than 100' easily in any case. Have an
acorn from one right here in my pocket, actually.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Swingman notes:
>records, especially the large Spanish grants, still have boundary
>descriptions of "so many varas to a live oak for a corner, then NW so many
>varas to another live oak for a corner ..."
>
>I've seen some old live oaks whose branches easily cover an area 150'+ in
>diameter. IIRC, there was also a species that was native to Baja California
>when I visited there many years ago.
>
>You need to write a book, Charlie. ;>)
>
I'm working on it. The live oak is a lovely tree in a squatty sort of way...and
down in the S. Carolina and Georgia areas, it is usually heavily draped with
Spanish moss, making it even more gothic looking. The tend not to be much mroe
than 50' tall, and while 150' is probably unusual, I'd guess half that isn't,
maybe even 2/3.
Tankoak is sometimes called live oak, too...Lithocarpus densiflorus. Way west
for this one, usually along the Pacific coastal ranges starting in Oregon, to
Socal.
Massive tree, to 80 feet, though the big ones are now hard to find. Not as
hard, nor as durable, as true live oak, but QS ray flecks are nice and it's a
pretty wood (I think). Much easier to work than real live oak, too.
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Charlie Self wrote:
>
> Tankoak is sometimes called live oak, too...Lithocarpus densiflorus. Way west
> for this one, usually along the Pacific coastal ranges starting in Oregon, to
> Socal.
>
> Massive tree, to 80 feet, though the big ones are now hard to find. Not as
> hard, nor as durable, as true live oak, but QS ray flecks are nice and it's a
> pretty wood (I think). Much easier to work than real live oak, too.
For anyone who's interested, here's a picture of a live oak that's
famous in the Charleston, South Carolina area.
I climbed this on this tree over 30 years ago.
Picture: http://www.arboresque.com/Angel_Oak.htm
Story: http://www.bestreadguide.com/charleston/stories/19990114/att_angeloak.shtml
ARM ;-)
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:00:49 -0500, Alan McClure <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>For anyone who's interested, here's a picture of a live oak that's
>famous in the Charleston, South Carolina area.
>I climbed this on this tree over 30 years ago.
>
>Picture: http://www.arboresque.com/Angel_Oak.htm
That's a teensy bit larger than those I climbed in LoCal as a
young teen. Ours were only 20-40' tall/wide.
--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
In article <131220032041576035%[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Charlie Self
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Quercus virginiana. Coastal plain of the U.S. south from Virginia to southern
>> Florida. Georgia state tree.
>
>Did a web search... looks like a gorgeous shade tree.
>
>Acorns, but the leaves are nothing like any oak I've seen, and it's an
>evergreen!
>
Not only is it evergreen, but it's deciduous too. It loses leaves, and grows
new ones, continuously.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
Dave Balderstone <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<131220032041576035%[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, Charlie Self
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Quercus virginiana. Coastal plain of the U.S. south from Virginia to southern
> > Florida. Georgia state tree.
>
> Did a web search... looks like a gorgeous shade tree.
>
> Acorns, but the leaves are nothing like any oak I've seen, and it's an
> evergreen!
>
> Thanks to the OP and everyone else for the opportunity to learn
> something.
>
> djb
My grandmother and her neighbors have several down their road. In
fact, the road splits twice to go around two huge live oaks. The lady
across the street from my grandma has two live oaks in her yard that a
guy-who-knows-a-buttload-about-trees (what's that guy called, anyway?)
looked at and were aged at over 400 years. They both have trunks of
about 6 feet in diameter and a dripline of easily 150'. Pretty
humbling, if you ask me. These trees were granddaddies before our
nation was born. Dang.
-Phil Crow
Phil Crow writes:
>My grandmother and her neighbors have several down their road. In
>fact, the road splits twice to go around two huge live oaks. The lady
>across the street from my grandma has two live oaks in her yard that a
>guy-who-knows-a-buttload-about-trees (what's that guy called, anyway?)
>looked at and were aged at over 400 years. They both have trunks of
>about 6 feet in diameter and a dripline of easily 150'. Pretty
>humbling, if you ask me. These trees were granddaddies before our
>nation was born. Dang.
Kinda gets to you. Some of the sequoias were there before Christ was born, too
(life expectancy of 2000 to 3000 years). Not too long ago, some live oaks were
estimated to be 800+ years old. That was recently revised downward, but the
experts still say there are a number over 300 years of age.
Charlie Self
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Larry Jaques wrote:
>>humbling, if you ask me. These trees were granddaddies before our
>>nation was born. Dang.
>
> That's the kind of tree that makes you all weak-in-the-knees like.
Yeah it is, and one of the things that makes being a woodworker hard for me.
Somewhere there's a logger going "hot damn, look at all the board feed in
*that* thing!"
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Mark Jerde wrote:
> I know a prof who says he "embroiders the mundane cloth of veracity with
> the
> golden thread of fabrication." Sounds better that way. <g>
Hrm... Me likey. I'll have to remember that.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Popt50 asks:
>
>Can live oak be used for building wood projects?
Ayup.
> am about to have a live oak
>tree
>taken down and I would like to have the trunk cut into planks. I don't want
>to
>spend the money for sawing if it is not a good wood for projects.
A bit difficult to season...slow, slow, slow is best. Keep out of sun, coat
ends. Durable wood (makes the heaviest picnic tables you'll find if all you use
is domestic wood). Used for ship framing 250-300 years ago. Not generally
available as a commercial timber, very hard, hard to work, should be fun and a
true challenge (not a yuppie synonym for a problem).
Enjoy.
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
I once tried to do what you are doing. The live oak that I tried did not
look very good when it was cut into. Alot different than red or white oak.
But then again, it could have just been that particular tree. The grain was
pretty crazy, and lots of defects. Your tree may look different.
"Popt50" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can live oak be used for building wood projects? I am about to have a live
oak
> tree
> taken down and I would like to have the trunk cut into planks. I don't
want to
> spend the money for sawing if it is not a good wood for projects.
>
> Thanks
>
> Don
Steven Bliss notes:
>
>I once tried to do what you are doing. The live oak that I tried did not
>look very good when it was cut into. Alot different than red or white oak.
>But then again, it could have just been that particular tree. The grain was
>pretty crazy, and lots of defects. Your tree may look different.
Distorted grain is common in live oak.
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
"Popt50" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can live oak be used for building wood projects? I am about to have a live
oak
> tree
> taken down and I would like to have the trunk cut into planks. I don't
want to
> spend the money for sawing if it is not a good wood for projects.
I've never worked live oak, but I will point out it was an
important resource for ship construction back in the days
of sail.
I believe you will find a lot of it in the Old Iron Sides.
Fascinating thread! Out here on the west coast, we have three dominant species
of live oak; the Coast Live Oak (quercus agrifola), the Interior Live Oak (q.
wislizenii) and the Engelmann Oak (q. engelmanii). As you might expect in
SoCal, they frequently interbreed, so crosses and hybrids are quite common.
Conventional wisdom says the wood is not workable-- too hard and moves too
much, with short trunks which do not yeild boards of any notable length.
However, I have had a great deal of success with it for smaller pieces and
accents. One piece I found has an intense fiddleback figure, and when
quarter-sawn, a truly spectacular flecking. I'm saving this for something
special. Another piece of downed wood had sat in the mulch so long that the
tannin had reacted with the wood and turned the bottom few inches into what is
essentially bog oak. Now, that's flashy! I personally am a fan of this
neglected wood, although I wouldn't try to use it for casework. And if all else
fails, it makes great, and I mean great barbecue!
Doug Miller <[email protected]> schreef
> Yeah, but there isn't any live oak in the UK. It grows only in the coastal
regions of the southeastern USA.
Not naturally, but they have been cultivated there since the 16th century.
Live oaks grow naturally in all the continents of the Northern Hemisphere.
PvR
Rodney Myrvaagnes <[email protected]> schreef
> I have a couple of planes made of liveoak. It seems to be excellent
for that. They are hard and dense, compared to the usual beech.
> Both were user made, not from a factory.
+ + +
Live oak (Quercus ilex) is one of the traditional woods for the handles of
mortise chisels (factory-made, in the days when factory-made did not
preclude small scale production). Also in the running works of windmills.
It will be some 50% stronger than beech.
PvR
In article <[email protected]>, "MC_Emily" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Live oak is hard as a stone. You may have trouble finding a sawyer who's
>> willing to cut it up for you -- it's pretty hard on blades.
>
>In the UK there are mobiles that will do the job for you.
>
Yeah, but there isn't any live oak in the UK. It grows only in the coastal
regions of the southeastern USA.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
Live oak has large open grain.It's stringy and tough to deal with. It will
tak more than a year to dry your wood though. Make sure you seal the ends of
the boards with a heavy coat of paint or sealer:
http://miva3.synergydns.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=woodprep-endgws
"Steven Bliss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I once tried to do what you are doing. The live oak that I tried did not
> look very good when it was cut into. Alot different than red or white
oak.
> But then again, it could have just been that particular tree. The grain
was
> pretty crazy, and lots of defects. Your tree may look different.
> "Popt50" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Can live oak be used for building wood projects? I am about to have a
live
> oak
> > tree
> > taken down and I would like to have the trunk cut into planks. I don't
> want to
> > spend the money for sawing if it is not a good wood for projects.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Don
>
>
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote
> Live oak is hard as a stone. You may have trouble finding a sawyer who's
> willing to cut it up for you -- it's pretty hard on blades.
In the UK there are mobiles that will do the job for you.
Jaqy
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Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "MC_Emily"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>> Live oak is hard as a stone. You may have trouble finding a sawyer
>>> who's willing to cut it up for you -- it's pretty hard on blades.
>>
>> In the UK there are mobiles that will do the job for you.
>>
> Yeah, but there isn't any live oak in the UK. It grows only in the
> coastal regions of the southeastern USA.
Sorry, I got confused with a living Oak tree!!
Jaqy
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On 13-Dec-2003, "Steven Bliss" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Alot different than red or white oak.
That's 'cause live oak is not oak. I never heard of it until
I visited South Carolina a couple of years ago and saw lots of it
along the side roads. Look it up, it's an interesting tree.
Mike
Michael Daly responds:
>That's 'cause live oak is not oak. I never heard of it until
>I visited South Carolina a couple of years ago and saw lots of it
>along the side roads. Look it up, it's an interesting tree.
>
Quercus virginiania is an oak.
Charlie Self
"In the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy as a prisoner's chains."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On 13-Dec-2003, [email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote:
> Michael Daly responds:
>
> >That's 'cause live oak is not oak.
>
> Quercus virginiania is an oak.
Ooops, you're right. My memory must be slipping - I remembered
reading that live oak was a misnamed tree as it wasn't oak. Perhaps
I'm mixing it up with another tree.
Mike
Mike Daly responds:
>> Michael Daly responds:
>>
>> >That's 'cause live oak is not oak.
>>
>> Quercus virginiania is an oak.
>
>Ooops, you're right. My memory must be slipping - I remembered
>reading that live oak was a misnamed tree as it wasn't oak. Perhaps
>I'm mixing it up with another tree.
Tanoak, AKA live oak. Hell, if the world can't confuse you with aliases for
tree names, what CAN it do?
But it's also a member of the beech family that contains oaks.
Charlie Self
"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Charlie Self wrote:
>
> Mike Daly responds:
>
> >> Michael Daly responds:
> >>
> >> >That's 'cause live oak is not oak.
> >>
> >> Quercus virginiania is an oak.
> >
> >Ooops, you're right. My memory must be slipping - I remembered
> >reading that live oak was a misnamed tree as it wasn't oak. Perhaps
> >I'm mixing it up with another tree.
>
> Tanoak, AKA live oak. Hell, if the world can't confuse you with aliases for
> tree names, what CAN it do?
>
> But it's also a member of the beech family that contains oaks.
>
> Charlie Self
>
> "Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
> Alexander Hamilton
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
>
>
>
>
I don't know how many times you have to say it Charlie
before everybody gets the picture (name) but Quercus
virginiana it is. Tree names are a bitch because there are
scientific names (thank God) then there are the common names
used by foresters, lumber/timber industry, and finished wood
or furniture industry, so that you can easily have 3 names
for the same thing, but just to confuse everyone, the same
name is often used for different woods. Then in the U.S.
you often have to include the coast, e.g., western red cedar
(which isn't a real cedar anyway).
My book shows 5 live oaks, Q. virginiana (the subject tree
that grows only on the east/southern coast); Q. chrysolepsis
(canyon live oak); Q. wislizenii (interior live oak); and Q
agrifolia (California live oak). All of them are evergreen
and the last four grow only on the west coast.
Poplar, probably.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Michael Daly" wrote in message
> On 13-Dec-2003, (Charlie Self) wrote:
>
> > Michael Daly responds:
> >
> > >That's 'cause live oak is not oak.
> >
> > Quercus virginiania is an oak.
>
> Ooops, you're right. My memory must be slipping - I remembered
> reading that live oak was a misnamed tree as it wasn't oak. Perhaps
> I'm mixing it up with another tree.
--
"Popt50" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can live oak be used for building wood projects? I am about to have a live oak
> tree
> taken down and I would like to have the trunk cut into planks. I don't want to
> spend the money for sawing if it is not a good wood for projects.
>
> Thanks
>
> Don
If you want a wood that is very tough and weighs a ton (almost as heavy as
water, .977 gms/cubic cm) then live oak is for you. You probably already know
this, it is the wood used to make the U.S.S. Constitution (Old Ironsides).
Legend has it that the canon balls would just bounce right off the sides, thus
the name. In the reconstruction of the ship, school kids saved up pennies to buy
live oak wood.
Cheers,
Bill
http://home.earthlink.net/~billbernice1/
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Popt50) wrote:
>Can live oak be used for building wood projects? I am about to have a live oak
>tree
>taken down and I would like to have the trunk cut into planks. I don't want to
>spend the money for sawing if it is not a good wood for projects.
>
Live oak is hard as a stone. You may have trouble finding a sawyer who's
willing to cut it up for you -- it's pretty hard on blades. I don't think I'd
want to try to make furniture out of it.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
On 13 Dec 2003 18:31:08 GMT, [email protected] (Popt50) wrote:
>Can live oak be used for building wood projects? I am about to have a live oak
>tree
>taken down and I would like to have the trunk cut into planks. I don't want to
>spend the money for sawing if it is not a good wood for projects.
>
I have a couple of planes made of liveoak. It seems to be excellent
for that. They are hard and dense, compared to the usual beech.
Both were user made, not from a factory.
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a
"In this house we _obey_ the laws of thermodynamics." --Homer Simpson
Popt50 wrote:
> Can live oak be used for building wood projects? I am about to have a live
Generally it's easier to make projects out of it if the oak is dead
first. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/