planing edge grain on eastern maple

stickdoctor wrote:
> I picked up a couple of flea market planes a little while back and putzed
> around with them somewhat until I had them working well (I thought).
> They took lovely little fluffy shavings on 2x4's and some rock maple that
> I was turning into lacrosse shafts (longpoles for field lacrosse - whack
> However, I have now picked up a nice chunk of eastern maple that I intend
> on turning into a few cutting boards... 2" thick, 10" wide about 5" long.
> Really nice tight growth rings.
> Ummmm, well, problem. I can't take shavings off this thing at all...at
> best I get a little bit of dust. Granted, this is edge grain in Maple,
> but still, is it really that much harder to take a shaving off of?
> I don't want to muck with flattening and maintaining waterstones and find
> scary sharp tedious since I tend to tear paper and make big messes
> attaching and swapping paper.
> Any suggestions as to how to tackle this maple - is it likely a matter of
> simply not having sharp enough irons?
> And any suggestions for a sharpening setup that won't cost the earth -

Hmmm, you said "edge grain, but I suspect that you mean "end grain".
Not knowing which planes you're using, makes it harder, but I think that
you may not be getting them sharp enough since you say that you're
cutting the sandpaper. That suggests that you're changing the angle of
attck and rounding the edge. It also suggests that you aren't gluing
the paper down and may be pushing a ridge of sandpaper before the edge
of the blade as you sharpen.

What you really need for end grain is a low angle block plane, with a
sharp blade. Try gluing it carefully and use a holder for the plane
blade to maintain a constant angle on it. It takes a lot of practice to
get a truly sharp edge by hand, but once you've trained your hand and
wrist, you'll find that the kitchen knives are much sharper too. %-)
Good luck,
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

stickdoctorq wrote:
> Well, I did mean edge grain, as in the 5 foot long, 2 inch thick "edge"
> of the board as opposed to the 10 inch wide, 2 inch thick "end" of the
> board,
> i.e.
> _____________________________________________
> | |
> | |
> | | end
> | |
> | |
> |_____________________________________________|
> edge
> It does look very much like end grain though, since the growth rings are
> so tight on this particular piece. Thankfully, I am slicing more or less
> with the the grain on this edge rather than across the grain like I would
> be on end grain.
> At any rate, I dug out some sandpaper, the 1" thick mdf chunk I use as a
> flat surface, my el cheapo chisel/plane blade holder sharpening jig, and
> gave it a shot...
> Couple minutes on 220 wet/dry, knock off the wire edge on the back,
> couple minutes on 600 wet/dry, knock off the wire edge on the back, slap
> it back in the plane (which is a Stanley #5, BTW)....
> whoa.
> So THIS is what is supposed to happen. Oooookay.
> Working much better to say the least. I guess while the planes still had
> enough sharpness before to deal with spruce/thin maple, it just cried
> mommy on the 2" thick edge grain of this chunk of maple......
> As for sharpening by hand, I have tried it...I just don't have the time
> to develop that particular skill, and what time I do have I prefer to
> spend working on projects rather than sharpening tools. So I use the
> jig, and it works...

I'm glad that the holder did the trick. Sharper is always better, and
how you get there is secondary. I did wonder about the direction of
planing if it was edge grain but I figured that you'd know to go with
the grain so I didn't mention it. That left the need for sharper edges
and I'm glad that it worked out for you.
Happy curlies,
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Hmmm, you said "edge grain, but I suspect that you mean "end grain".
> Not knowing which planes you're using, makes it harder, but I think
> that you may not be getting them sharp enough since you say that
> you're cutting the sandpaper. That suggests that you're changing the
> angle of attck and rounding the edge. It also suggests that you
> aren't gluing the paper down and may be pushing a ridge of sandpaper
> before the edge of the blade as you sharpen.
>
> What you really need for end grain is a low angle block plane, with a
> sharp blade. Try gluing it carefully and use a holder for the plane
> blade to maintain a constant angle on it. It takes a lot of practice
> to get a truly sharp edge by hand, but once you've trained your hand
> and wrist, you'll find that the kitchen knives are much sharper too.
> %-) Good luck,
> Dave in Fairfax



Well, I did mean edge grain, as in the 5 foot long, 2 inch thick "edge"
of the board as opposed to the 10 inch wide, 2 inch thick "end" of the
board,

i.e.


_____________________________________________
| |
| |
| | end
| |
| |
|_____________________________________________|
edge

It does look very much like end grain though, since the growth rings are
so tight on this particular piece. Thankfully, I am slicing more or less
with the the grain on this edge rather than across the grain like I would
be on end grain.

At any rate, I dug out some sandpaper, the 1" thick mdf chunk I use as a
flat surface, my el cheapo chisel/plane blade holder sharpening jig, and
gave it a shot...

Couple minutes on 220 wet/dry, knock off the wire edge on the back,
couple minutes on 600 wet/dry, knock off the wire edge on the back, slap
it back in the plane (which is a Stanley #5, BTW)....

whoa.

So THIS is what is supposed to happen. Oooookay.

Working much better to say the least. I guess while the planes still had
enough sharpness before to deal with spruce/thin maple, it just cried
mommy on the 2" thick edge grain of this chunk of maple......

As for sharpening by hand, I have tried it...I just don't have the time
to develop that particular skill, and what time I do have I prefer to
spend working on projects rather than sharpening tools. So I use the
jig, and it works...

Juergen Hannappel wrote:

> You got a very rough approximation of sharp. To make it sharp you
> should go at least to 1500 or 2000 wet/dry... I quess you still see
> scratches on the surface, which probably is *not* really like a
> mirror?

Well, I find "mirror" an overstatement at the best of times. I've spent
four hours on a single plane iron, going up through 2000 grit, and the best
I've ever seen is "mirror-like." Real mirrors are much more reflective.

If it's possible to get closer to a mirror than this, maybe it takes
chromium oxide or rouge or something. 2000 grit sandpaper won't do it.

(Most of that four hours was getting rid of the deep tool marks on the back,
incidentally.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

>I dunno. I guess I will sharpen my plane irons as best I can and take
>another whack at it. I think I will lay out the money at lee valley to
>pick up some stones...I am leaning towards a set of diamond stones since
>I don't want to muck with flattening and maintaining waterstones and find
>scary sharp tedious since I tend to tear paper and make big messes
>attaching and swapping paper.

diamond stones are not the greatest thing for sharpening steel. they wear fast
they are not super fast and they are not fine enough and they are expensive.
only pulling the tool on the paper will keep from tearing it. water is usually
enough to hold it down.


--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

stickdoctorq <[email protected]> writes:


[...]

> At any rate, I dug out some sandpaper, the 1" thick mdf chunk I use as a
> flat surface, my el cheapo chisel/plane blade holder sharpening jig, and
> gave it a shot...
>
> Couple minutes on 220 wet/dry, knock off the wire edge on the back,
> couple minutes on 600 wet/dry, knock off the wire edge on the back, slap
> it back in the plane (which is a Stanley #5, BTW)....

You got a very rough approximation of sharp. To make it sharp you
should go at least to 1500 or 2000 wet/dry... I quess you still see
scratches on the surface, which probably is *not* really like a
mirror?
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

Silvan <[email protected]> writes:

> Juergen Hannappel wrote:
>
>> You got a very rough approximation of sharp. To make it sharp you
>> should go at least to 1500 or 2000 wet/dry... I quess you still see
>> scratches on the surface, which probably is *not* really like a
>> mirror?
>
> Well, I find "mirror" an overstatement at the best of times. I've spent
> four hours on a single plane iron, going up through 2000 grit, and the best
> I've ever seen is "mirror-like." Real mirrors are much more reflective.

You do something wrong ;-) For example when i needed a small mirror
urgently during the summer (of course on an evening, impossible to buy
one) 20 minutes of wet sandpaper applied to a rusty piece of iron
yielded a mirror good enough to read a LED display in, as was
required... I used sandpaper up to 2000 grit.

My tools are finished with a 6000 grit japanese artifical waterstone,
and they also have wirror finish (but only close to the edge...)

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

Silvan <[email protected]> writes:

> Juergen Hannappel wrote:
>
>> You got a very rough approximation of sharp. To make it sharp you
>> should go at least to 1500 or 2000 wet/dry... I quess you still see
>> scratches on the surface, which probably is *not* really like a
>> mirror?
>
> Well, I find "mirror" an overstatement at the best of times. I've spent
> four hours on a single plane iron, going up through 2000 grit, and the best
> I've ever seen is "mirror-like." Real mirrors are much more reflective.

You do something wrong ;-) For example when i needed a small mirror
urgently during the summer (of course on an evening, impossible to buy
one) 20 minutes of wet sandpaper applied to a rusty piece of iron
yielded a mirror good enough to read a LED display in, as was
required... I used sandpaper up to 2000 grit.

My tools are finished with a 600 grit japanese artifical waterstone,
and they also have wirror finish (but only close to the edge...)

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23