I read the message below from davefr (thanks dave). It didn't answer
the two safety/procedural questions I have on table saws:
1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
-- i am installing my own floor (vermont soft pine)
-- the boards are too wide (9 inches) to fit a in my miter saw
-- i thought i read somewhere that you're only supposed to make "rip
cuts" with a table saw -- not cross cuts.
i'm a woodworking newbie trying to save some money on my house. hence
the cheap, kmnothole-ridden wood, which brings me to my 2nd question:
2. Is it ok to cut through a knothole with table saw? If not, what is
the best tool for that?
Thanks very much,
C.Line
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Search Result 1
From: davefr ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Table Saw safety guards
View: Complete Thread (84 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date: 2000/04/23
Most kickbacks are prevented by proper table saw use:
- Avoid using the mitre guage AND fence to make a cut. This is a big
No No!!
- Avoid ripping warped or damaged wood. If you have to, then attach
it to a straight piece of wood.
- Adjust the blade height enough to just clear the work
- Make sure your fence is calibrated so it's parallel to the blade.
(it's a good idea to give it a couple thousand of an inch extra
clearance at the rear) Check this annually and never assume a brand
new saw is properly calibrated.
- Keep you blades sharp and use the correct blade for the cut.
- Don't stand in the line of fire. Work in a position that's not
directly in line with potential kickback.
- Use a featherboard when needed
- If the cut will put you in harms way than consider using another
tool. A bandsaw can be much safer for cutting damaged wood.
- Hearing protection, safety glasses, dust mask, and even a hardhat
will help protect you.
- Work when you are fresh and alert and think thru every cut before
you make it.
- Ask yourself if you can accomplish the cut safer using a different
tool. Sometimes you can make a rough cut on a safer tool and use the
table saw for a finish cut.
- Get an outfeed table for your saw.
- Work in a well lit area.
- If you are more comfortable using the guard then use it.
On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:11:59 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
|
|"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
|
|> I'm reminded of an incident from my youth. I was working in my dad's
|> automotive machine shop and cut my finger deeply doing something or
|> the other.
|
|My last woodworking related trip to the ER involved a table saw and was no
|doubt statistically reported that way ... although the saw did not have a
|blade on it at the time, and was even not plugged in.
|
|I was installing a _safety_ device ... a Uniguard, and inadvertently turned
|it into the business end of a guillotine in the process ... 13 stitches, and
|a numb to this day, but still functional, thumb.
Ouch!
I had a TS injury just yesterday too.
After 60 years of Arizona sunshine, many of them spent, in the
pre-airconditioning days, driving around with my left forearm resting
on the car door, my skin is so damaged than just a little pressure on
it will leave a purple blotch.
I walked around the TS and bumped my forearm on the corner of the back
angle iron rail and left a half-dollar size patch of skin and hair
behind. Damn I hate that.
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:30:23 GMT, "Larry Church"
<[email protected]> wrote:
I was in agreement up to here:
| but I do a lot of free hand ripping to a chalk
|line (no fence at all),
Say it isn't so.
In article <[email protected]>, Commando
Line <[email protected]> wrote:
> 1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
Yes. It's bets if you have a crosscut or combo blade and most accurate
and safest if you build and use a sled.
> 2. Is it ok to cut through a knothole with table saw?
Yes. But the knot may fall out.
--
"I'm a man, but I can change... If I have to... I guess." -- Red Green
"Commando Line" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I read the message below from davefr (thanks dave). It didn't answer
> the two safety/procedural questions I have on table saws:
>
> 1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
> -- i am installing my own floor (vermont soft pine)
> -- the boards are too wide (9 inches) to fit a in my miter saw
> -- i thought i read somewhere that you're only supposed to make "rip
> cuts" with a table saw -- not cross cuts.
I think it is easier to use the chop saw. Make the cut as far as the blade
will go, then flip the board over and line the blade up with the kerf from
the first part ofd the cut and finish. We've been making cuts like that for
long enough to get tired of it so we bought the Makita 12" sliding miter
chop saw that has a 12" capacity at 90 degrees. That helps, but now we are
working with 12" and wider boards 10 or 12 feet long making 30, 45, and 60
degree cuts. You can't really do that on a table saw. Some of the material
is surfaced 3 sides, so when the board is flipped, there is no straight
reference on the back side. You have to take the time to accurately line up
the board for the second half of the cut so that the blade lines up with the
kerf to necessary tolerance. We used to use a worm drive as we are framers
first - woodworkers second. A radial arm saw is probably ideal for this,
but the lack of portablilty is a big negative.
> i'm a woodworking newbie trying to save some money on my house. hence
> the cheap, kmnothole-ridden wood, which brings me to my 2nd question:
>
> 2. Is it ok to cut through a knothole with table saw? If not, what is
> the best tool for that?
I've had loose knots fragment and come flying out in my face on the table
saw. Eye protection is mandatory. You're not supposed to have your face
right in the line of fire, but I do a lot of free hand ripping to a chalk
line (no fence at all), and when trying to maximise accuracy, its hard not
to get your face in the danger zone. I've been thinking about a face shield
acutally. Use the chop saw - the fragments get thrown away from you.
Larry Church
Mintlake Lodge
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Wes Stewart" wrote in message
> > On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:30:23 GMT, "Larry Church"
> >wrote:
> >
> > I was in agreement up to here:
> >
> > | but I do a lot of free hand ripping to a chalk
> > |line (no fence at all),
> >
> > Say it isn't so.
>
> It is a very common practice on construction sites around here ... AAMOF,
> you are more likely to see a good looking female framer working topless
than
> a table saw fence before the trim crew arrives.
im guessing these the same guys that remove or disable the safety device on
the nail gun...
randy
"Leon" wrote in message
> Maybe. But with a TS I have seen Norm do it on TV. And I do it on
> occasion but only on 1/4" plywood panels with the blade very low. Keep an
> eye on what you are doing and know the problems that can happen and you
can
> do it without mishap.
The first table saw I owned (yep, a Craftsmans benchtop model), and used to
build two recording studios, didn't even come with a fence, IIRC, and was so
underpowered that it would bog down before kicking back.
We used it primarily to cut sheet goods to size, although I can't tell you
how many tubufours were ripped to 2X dimensions on that thing ... both
almost always a two man operation, for _safety's_ sake.
Something I would be very hard pressed to try, or even think of attempting,
on my Unisaw and without a fence.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04
"Steve Kreitler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip
>
> Actually, this might possibly lead to a kickback, as with the blade set
> low, the force of the blade is running almost parallel to
> the board and tabletop- this makes it much easier for the blade to "kick"
> the board. If the blade is raised as high as possible, it will run almost
> straight down, helping to force the board down onto the table. Just be
sure
> to keep your hands clear of the blade.
Well, actually Kick Back is most often caused by the back of the blade
lifting the board and throwing it back when it becomes jammed between the
blade and the fence. The higher the blade the more likely of a jam and the
blade throwing the board higher. The blade should be high enough for the
teeth to clear the top of the board and that is it.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Commando Line" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > 1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
> > -- i am installing my own floor (vermont soft pine)
> > -- the boards are too wide (9 inches) to fit a in my miter saw
> > -- i thought i read somewhere that you're only supposed to make "rip
> > cuts" with a table saw -- not cross cuts.
>
> Cut away. Use a combination or cross cutting blade. Use the miter, not
the
> fence. Don't use both or that can cause a kickback because the fence will
> cause the board to skew a bit. . You can set the fence an inche further
from
> the blade than you want to cut. Then you clamp a 1" spacer to the face of
> the fence, but only near the fron. You can bring the board to the stop and
> then ush ahead with the miter. That allows for a repeatable stop but
> without the potential kickback problems from the setup.
>
>
> It can be a little hard to hold a nine foot board to cut off an inch.
Use
> some common sense and be sure you are pushing the board squarely.
>
>
>
> > 2. Is it ok to cut through a knothole with table saw? If not, what is
> > the best tool for that?
> >
> >
>
> There are knots and thee are knots. If it is tight you can cut it. If it
> is loose at all, thee is some risk of it breaking and pieces becoming a
> projectilre. The guard helps with this sort of thing. There are names
for
> the types of knots. I don't recall them at the moment.
frank and judy are common knot names, although shauniqua is growing in
popularity <g>
randy
"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:30:23 GMT, "Larry Church"
>wrote:
>
> I was in agreement up to here:
>
> | but I do a lot of free hand ripping to a chalk
> |line (no fence at all),
>
> Say it isn't so.
It is a very common practice on construction sites around here ... AAMOF,
you are more likely to see a good looking female framer working topless than
a table saw fence before the trim crew arrives.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04
"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
> I'm reminded of an incident from my youth. I was working in my dad's
> automotive machine shop and cut my finger deeply doing something or
> the other.
My last woodworking related trip to the ER involved a table saw and was no
doubt statistically reported that way ... although the saw did not have a
blade on it at the time, and was even not plugged in.
I was installing a _safety_ device ... a Uniguard, and inadvertently turned
it into the business end of a guillotine in the process ... 13 stitches, and
a numb to this day, but still functional, thumb.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04
"Leon" wrote in message
> Swingman May I award you ............. what would that award be? ;~)
>
> Injured by a TS safety device.
LOL ... More like a National Enquirer headline, instead of an award:
"Dumb Sh*t Injured By A TS Safety Device"
> Glad to hear that you came out mostly OK. Just goes to show you, you
cannot
> be too careful around big equipment.
It's been over a year now ... anyone reading this who attempts to install a
Uniguard by themselves, get some help!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04
> 1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
Yes, it's OK, I've done it many times. The problem is one of holding/moving
the board. You need a sled or long miter gauge to hold the board square to
the blade, and even then trying to support a long board (more than 3 feet
or so) is going to be awkward or impossible.
Like another poster mentioned, I usually use my power miter saw (chop saw).
I cut through as far as I can in one pass, flip the board over, and finish
the cut. It's not a perfect cut, but it works fine most of the time.
If accuracy is important, you could simply clamp a straight edge to your
board, and make the cut with a handheld circular saw. I cut plywood this
way as it's easier than trying to juggle a sheet up on top of my table saw.
> 2. Is it ok to cut through a knothole with table saw?
It doesn't really matter what type of saw is making the cut, it depends on
the knot. If the knot is loose, trying to cut through it could send
fragments flying, and/or the knot will fall out after being cut. But, if
the knot is tight, it should not be a problem. I cut through them all the
time.
Anthony
"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
> |It is a very common practice on construction sites around here ... AAMOF,
> |you are more likely to see a good looking female framer working topless
than
> |a table saw fence before the trim crew arrives.
>
> I think it was common practice too when my Mother's step-dad removed
> all of his fingers on his left hand and ended his carpenter career.
>
> Coincidentally, my wife's father lost a couple of finger tips ignoring
> common sense safety TS practices too.
I am not advising you to practice it, I was merely explaining the reality of
the situation.
> When I tried freehanding a cut on a TS in a shop class the instructor
> about had a fit and told me in no uncertain terms that that's what the
> %&*#@+ bandsaw was for.
... and what the wise guys on the construction site would tell you, in both
English and Spanish, albeit less politely, is that according to ER
statistics, yuppie hobbyists, with overpowered, fence equipped table saws in
their garages, are far more likely to lose their digital attachments.
... and FWIW, my recent relative acquisition, Uncle Teet, tells me that he
lost the first knuckle of his ring finger on a bandsaw ... so be careful
either way.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04
Commando Line wrote:
> I read the message below from davefr (thanks dave). It didn't answer
> the two safety/procedural questions I have on table saws:
>
> 1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
> -- i am installing my own floor (vermont soft pine)
> -- the boards are too wide (9 inches) to fit a in my miter saw
> -- i thought i read somewhere that you're only supposed to make "rip
> cuts" with a table saw -- not cross cuts.
Dunno where you read that but take anything else that you read there with a
very large dose of salt--a table saw will cut any grain orientation--the
difficulty is not in the cutting itself but in supporting the piece and
maintaining the desired alignment.
That said, if you _have_ a radial arm saw or other saw that has a controlled
crosscut movement, you'll find such a saw more _convenient_ for
cross-cutting, and you'll find the table saw, which tends to pull the work
down onto the table instead of lifting it up in the air, to be more
_convenient_ for ripping.
> i'm a woodworking newbie trying to save some money on my house. hence
> the cheap, kmnothole-ridden wood, which brings me to my 2nd question:
>
> 2. Is it ok to cut through a knothole with table saw? If not, what is
> the best tool for that?
Sure--a knothole is just air. Now if there's a knot in it, that can be
another story--if the knot comes out it can be thrown by the saw and hurt
anybody in the line of fire. Check each knot that you're going to be
cutting and if it seems at all loose knock it out first--that doesn't mean
that one that's tight when surrounded by board doesn't come apart when the
saw goes through it though.
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> C.Line
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Search Result 1
> From: davefr ([email protected])
> Subject: Re: Table Saw safety guards
> View: Complete Thread (84 articles)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
> Date: 2000/04/23
>
>
> Most kickbacks are prevented by proper table saw use:
>
> - Avoid using the mitre guage AND fence to make a cut. This is a big
> No No!!
> - Avoid ripping warped or damaged wood. If you have to, then attach
> it to a straight piece of wood.
> - Adjust the blade height enough to just clear the work
> - Make sure your fence is calibrated so it's parallel to the blade.
> (it's a good idea to give it a couple thousand of an inch extra
> clearance at the rear) Check this annually and never assume a brand
> new saw is properly calibrated.
> - Keep you blades sharp and use the correct blade for the cut.
> - Don't stand in the line of fire. Work in a position that's not
> directly in line with potential kickback.
> - Use a featherboard when needed
> - If the cut will put you in harms way than consider using another
> tool. A bandsaw can be much safer for cutting damaged wood.
> - Hearing protection, safety glasses, dust mask, and even a hardhat
> will help protect you.
> - Work when you are fresh and alert and think thru every cut before
> you make it.
> - Ask yourself if you can accomplish the cut safer using a different
> tool. Sometimes you can make a rough cut on a safer tool and use the
> table saw for a finish cut.
> - Get an outfeed table for your saw.
> - Work in a well lit area.
> - If you are more comfortable using the guard then use it.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"Commando Line" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I read the message below from davefr (thanks dave). It didn't answer
> the two safety/procedural questions I have on table saws:
>
> 1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
Yes- that's what the miter guage is for (the "T" shaped thing that slides
in those slot thingies). If the board is too
long to safely handle on the saw, cut it close to size with a handsaw first.
> - Adjust the blade height enough to just clear the work
Actually, this might possibly lead to a kickback, as with the blade set
low, the force of the blade is running almost parallel to
the board and tabletop- this makes it much easier for the blade to "kick"
the board. If the blade is raised as high as possible, it will run almost
straight down, helping to force the board down onto the table. Just be sure
to keep your hands clear of the blade.
On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:08:50 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
|I am not advising you to practice it, I was merely explaining the reality of
|the situation.
Understood.
|
|> When I tried freehanding a cut on a TS in a shop class the instructor
|> about had a fit and told me in no uncertain terms that that's what the
|> %&*#@+ bandsaw was for.
|
|... and what the wise guys on the construction site would tell you, in both
|English and Spanish, albeit less politely, is that according to ER
|statistics, yuppie hobbyists, with overpowered, fence equipped table saws in
|their garages, are far more likely to lose their digital attachments.
Wish we'd send all those Mexicans home. In Tucson, you're
statistically far more likely to be injured by being in the crossfire
between drug or alien smugglers or a crash (nearly happened to me)
with them running from the Border Patrol, than by using a tablesaw.
|
|... and FWIW, my recent relative acquisition, Uncle Teet, tells me that he
|lost the first knuckle of his ring finger on a bandsaw ... so be careful
|either way.
I'm reminded of an incident from my youth. I was working in my dad's
automotive machine shop and cut my finger deeply doing something or
the other.
I wrapped it up in a shop towel and drove myself to our family doctor.
When I went to the reception desk and said that I might need stitches
they went into full-blown panic mode and wanted to look at it, asked
me if I was going to faint, etc. etc. I said it was no big deal and
took a seat.
When I saw the doctor I related this concern by the receptionist and
asked about it.
It seems that a week or so earlier a guy who worked for a drilling
company had come in under similar circumstances and they just asked
him to take a seat and wait. He was sitting there reading a magazine
when another guy hurried in the door and said, "Hey John, we found
your finger, maybe they can reattach it."
Lost fingers were so common in the drilling business that they didn't
make much fuss over it.
"Kenneth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Howdy,
>
> Indeed, you can but...
>
> When something goes wrong (and it will) the costs may be profound...
Yes it will and can. Regardless of how careful you think that you are, that
is not careful enough. I have been using a TS seriously for the last 20
years and professionally for the lasy 9 years. 15 years ago I lost half of
my thumb on the TS. I was not cutting when it happened and this happened
agter I has shut off the power to the saw. My mistake was that I got in a
rush and started making adjustments before the blade stop spinning.
> The simple reality is that a sideways twitch of the board being cut
> can cause a problem that will reveal itself in tiny fractions of a
> second. At the speeds involved, the skills of the operator at that
> point are meaningless.
Agreed again. However I have observed a few things that have proven true
and goes contrary to many peoples thinking about more powerful saws. First
off, I do not free hand the cuts on wood that would not snap, break, or cut
easily. I also always have a very firm hand on the wood during the free
hand cut. What I have observed however is having used a 1 hp Craftsman TS
for 15+ years and now a 3hp Jet cabinet saw is that the Craftsman being
under powered was more dangerous. With a sharp blade on both models and a
Jet fence on both the Craftsman and Jet cabinet saw the chance IMHO of a
serious kick back lessens with more HP. I find that with a firm hand and
more HP the TS is more likey to cut the board rather than get bound up slow
down and toss the wood back. With the lessor powered saws you have to baby
the wood to keep from stalling the motor and again IMHO the lack of a firm
hand leads to a greater possibility of the wood binding and being kicked
back.
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
"Commando Line" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> 1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
> -- i am installing my own floor (vermont soft pine)
> -- the boards are too wide (9 inches) to fit a in my miter saw
> -- i thought i read somewhere that you're only supposed to make "rip
> cuts" with a table saw -- not cross cuts.
Cut away. Use a combination or cross cutting blade. Use the miter, not the
fence. Don't use both or that can cause a kickback because the fence will
cause the board to skew a bit. . You can set the fence an inche further from
the blade than you want to cut. Then you clamp a 1" spacer to the face of
the fence, but only near the fron. You can bring the board to the stop and
then ush ahead with the miter. That allows for a repeatable stop but
without the potential kickback problems from the setup.
It can be a little hard to hold a nine foot board to cut off an inch. Use
some common sense and be sure you are pushing the board squarely.
> 2. Is it ok to cut through a knothole with table saw? If not, what is
> the best tool for that?
>
>
There are knots and thee are knots. If it is tight you can cut it. If it
is loose at all, thee is some risk of it breaking and pieces becoming a
projectilre. The guard helps with this sort of thing. There are names for
the types of knots. I don't recall them at the moment.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Search Result 1
> From: davefr ([email protected])
>
>
> Most kickbacks are prevented by proper table saw use:
>
> - Avoid using the mitre guage AND fence to make a cut. This is a big
> No No!!
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:41:43 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:30:23 GMT, "Larry Church"
>>wrote:
>>
>> I was in agreement up to here:
>>
>> | but I do a lot of free hand ripping to a chalk
>> |line (no fence at all),
>>
>> Say it isn't so.
>
>It is a very common practice on construction sites around here ... AAMOF,
>you are more likely to see a good looking female framer working topless than
>a table saw fence before the trim crew arrives.
depends on the jobsite.
I *have* seen good looking females working topless..... on a project
at a nudist gathering...
<G>
"Commando Line" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I read the message below from davefr (thanks dave). It didn't answer
> the two safety/procedural questions I have on table saws:
>
> 1. Is it ok to make a "cross cut" with a table saw?
> -- i am installing my own floor (vermont soft pine)
> -- the boards are too wide (9 inches) to fit a in my miter saw
> -- i thought i read somewhere that you're only supposed to make "rip
> cuts" with a table saw -- not cross cuts.
if you are going to do this, make a crosscut sled (searching will find tons
of plans to make them). even with a good miter gauge its just too easy to
start slightly changing the angle at which the board is being fed into to
the blade and this is what causes the kickback. you can clamp the hell out
of it to minimize it but thats time consuming and not as good as a sled.
basicaly, the sled insures the board feeds in straight by using both miters
slots at once. one you've used a sled you will never go back, but you wont
have to. you already made it.
randy
On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 03:59:21 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Keep an
>eye on what you are doing and know the problems that can happen and you can
>do it without mishap.
Howdy,
Indeed, you can but...
When something goes wrong (and it will) the costs may be profound...
The simple reality is that a sideways twitch of the board being cut
can cause a problem that will reveal itself in tiny fractions of a
second. At the speeds involved, the skills of the operator at that
point are meaningless.
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:41:43 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
|"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
|> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:30:23 GMT, "Larry Church"
|>wrote:
|>
|> I was in agreement up to here:
|>
|> | but I do a lot of free hand ripping to a chalk
|> |line (no fence at all),
|>
|> Say it isn't so.
|
|It is a very common practice on construction sites around here ... AAMOF,
|you are more likely to see a good looking female framer working topless than
|a table saw fence before the trim crew arrives.
I think it was common practice too when my Mother's step-dad removed
all of his fingers on his left hand and ended his carpenter career.
Coincidentally, my wife's father lost a couple of finger tips ignoring
common sense safety TS practices too.
When I tried freehanding a cut on a TS in a shop class the instructor
about had a fit and told me in no uncertain terms that that's what the
%&*#@+ bandsaw was for.
Maybe. But with a TS I have seen Norm do it on TV. And I do it on
occasion but only on 1/4" plywood panels with the blade very low. Keep an
eye on what you are doing and know the problems that can happen and you can
do it without mishap.
"The Davenports" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > I was in agreement up to here:
> >
> > | but I do a lot of free hand ripping to a chalk
> > |line (no fence at all),
> >
> > Say it isn't so.
> >
> >
>
> I believe that he meant "free hand with a Skil-type saw" not a table saw.
>
> I hope
>
> Mike
>
>