and wow what a way to make a machine look/feel like NEW. Bought a used
Powermatic 66 last Fall (love the saw!) and after close inspection noticed
the top bowed down slightly, about a 40 thousandths dip, probably due to
abuse. Not a big deal but it meant I had to re-sqaure the blade for
different width boards. I almost faired the top with an epoxy grahpite
mixture but ran across a Blanchard grinder a couple hours away. Called the
guy and he said "hey Powermatic makes their tops near you, take it to them".
Well I'll be, the very shop where they grind and machine them is less than
90 minutes from me. Took it to them and they said it could be re-worked.
Picked it up today and it's like a mirror and FLAT FLAT FLAT! Also got to
take a tour of where the tops are made. It's one helluva operation and nice
to know one of the things that Powermatic has done so well for so long has
managed to stay home and not turn chiwanese. Powermatic will get my
business again.
--
Eric P
UA100
Perhaps another piece of machinery or some lumber fell on it, or someone
stacked it with something heavy. Tablesaw tops may seem like armor when in
truth they need to be handled with care. The bow was worse on the infeed
edge and gradually went away by back of the table. I thought the top may
have moved on its own over time but according to the Powermatic guys that
rarely happened back when my saw was built (late 80's) since they still aged
the tops.
Cost was $105.
Eric P
William
Luckily the amount of material needed to be ground off to get her flat again
wasn't so much as to adversely effect the miter slots. In fact the first
thing the guy said when I saw the top was the miter slots were at the very
lowest end of spec, but still within spec nonetheless. I dropped my miter
gauge in and sure enough it's a hair below the top. If the miter slots had
ended up too shallow I'd be in the market for a new top. I read UA100's
comments and see how some may not be all that concerned if the slots are too
shallow but I use several miter gauges and would hate to grind them down and
know that everytime I bought a new device that uses the miters slots that it
would have to be modified right out of the box. Keeping things in spec
seems like an easier way to get by.
Eric P
> How did they deal with the depth of the miter gauge slots, or did they at
> all ? I assume that your 66 has the same "T" slots as my 72 has. I have
> been thinking about running my top through my wide belt sander, as it is
> equiped with a contact roller soft enough for use on metal.
>
> William.....
>
> www.wacworkshop.com
>
>
I got a PM66 from '72 or '73 last summer and it had a giant hump in
the middle of the table right over where the arbor pulley sits. It was
about .060 tall. On the bottom you could tell that the pulley had at
some point been rubbing on the table; maybe the resulting heat
contributed to the hump. Anyway, I took it to a blanchard grinder in
Chelmsford, MA and they ground it plus the one wing I have for 110
dollars.
Not sure how the mitre slot situation is since I don't yet have a
mitre gauge. I'll let you know when I get one whether it is a problem.
I figured I could just live with sleds or make a custom bar if the
slots ended up getting too shallow.
I've got some pictures I'll post at some point of the blanchard
grinding operation; it was pretty cool.
-Holly
"William" <wac@_nospam_gene-o-tech.com> wrote in message news:<Ol0jc.36809$IW1.1691612@attbi_s52>...
> "Eric P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > William
> >
> > Luckily the amount of material needed to be ground off to get her flat
> again
> > wasn't so much as to adversely effect the miter slots. In fact the first
> > thing the guy said when I saw the top was the miter slots were at the very
> > lowest end of spec, but still within spec nonetheless. I dropped my miter
> > gauge in and sure enough it's a hair below the top. If the miter slots
> had
> > ended up too shallow I'd be in the market for a new top. I read UA100's
> > comments and see how some may not be all that concerned if the slots are
> too
> > shallow but I use several miter gauges and would hate to grind them down
> and
> > know that everytime I bought a new device that uses the miters slots that
> it
> > would have to be modified right out of the box. Keeping things in spec
> > seems like an easier way to get by.
> >
> > Eric P
> >
>
> Do you have any way to measure the depth of your slots ( as you stated that
> they are at or close to the limit ) that may tell me how far I can cut the
> top of mine down ( as I don't have the miter gauge at this time:-) I could
> machine off some material off the gauge bar but like I would rather not.
> Did you see how they set up the tops for the machine work? do they shim
> them to level on the mag chuck ( I assume that they are blanchard ground?) ?
>
> Thanks
>
> William....
>
>
> >
> >
> > > How did they deal with the depth of the miter gauge slots, or did they
> at
> > > all ? I assume that your 66 has the same "T" slots as my 72 has. I
> have
> > > been thinking about running my top through my wide belt sander, as it is
> > > equiped with a contact roller soft enough for use on metal.
> > >
> > > William.....
> > >
> > > www.wacworkshop.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
At least on my top, they grinding guys also gave the backside a touch
up, so the three attachment points on the table are coplanar and
parallel to the top surface. When I set it on the cabinet it seems to
rest flush on all three mounting surfaces on the cabinet flanges. If
that wasn't the case you could shim it so there was less possibility
for distortion when you tighten the bolts, or bang the mounting flange
on the cabinet up or down to match the top.
I think the same problem could be had with a mint top since it really
speaks to alignment of the top to the cabinet in the mounting areas.
I doubt they grind the tables originally with them mounted on the
cabinet. Seems like you should figure out how to have a good
connection between the top and cabinet rather than compensating for it
by grinding. And all the blanchard machines I have seem (admittedly
not that many) couldn't take something as thick as a cabinet plus top
between the magnetic chuck and the grinding head.
Anyway, good point that it is something to watch out for.
-Holly
[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:28:01 -0500, "Eric P" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Scott
> >
> >I took the top in three pieces. Not sure if I could bend it out of shape
> >just by bolting it on unless something was trapped between the the top and
> >the cabinet.
>
>
>
> cast iron will flex more than you probably think. if the cabinet rim
> and the mounting bosses of the saw table aren't in the same plane, the
> top will probably be the one that gives.
My woodhaven mitre gauge arrived yesterday. For the record on this
topic, it does stick up out of the reground table by up to maybe 10
mils in some places. I'll probably just do some belt sanding on the
bottom of the slider bar.
-Holly
[email protected] (Holly Gates) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> At least on my top, they grinding guys also gave the backside a touch
> up, so the three attachment points on the table are coplanar and
> parallel to the top surface. When I set it on the cabinet it seems to
> rest flush on all three mounting surfaces on the cabinet flanges. If
> that wasn't the case you could shim it so there was less possibility
> for distortion when you tighten the bolts, or bang the mounting flange
> on the cabinet up or down to match the top.
>
> I think the same problem could be had with a mint top since it really
> speaks to alignment of the top to the cabinet in the mounting areas.
>
> I doubt they grind the tables originally with them mounted on the
> cabinet. Seems like you should figure out how to have a good
> connection between the top and cabinet rather than compensating for it
> by grinding. And all the blanchard machines I have seem (admittedly
> not that many) couldn't take something as thick as a cabinet plus top
> between the magnetic chuck and the grinding head.
>
> Anyway, good point that it is something to watch out for.
>
> -Holly
>
>
> [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:28:01 -0500, "Eric P" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Scott
> > >
> > >I took the top in three pieces. Not sure if I could bend it out of shape
> > >just by bolting it on unless something was trapped between the the top and
> > >the cabinet.
> >
> >
> >
> > cast iron will flex more than you probably think. if the cabinet rim
> > and the mounting bosses of the saw table aren't in the same plane, the
> > top will probably be the one that gives.
"Eric P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> William
>
> Luckily the amount of material needed to be ground off to get her flat
again
> wasn't so much as to adversely effect the miter slots. In fact the first
> thing the guy said when I saw the top was the miter slots were at the very
> lowest end of spec, but still within spec nonetheless. I dropped my miter
> gauge in and sure enough it's a hair below the top. If the miter slots
had
> ended up too shallow I'd be in the market for a new top. I read UA100's
> comments and see how some may not be all that concerned if the slots are
too
> shallow but I use several miter gauges and would hate to grind them down
and
> know that everytime I bought a new device that uses the miters slots that
it
> would have to be modified right out of the box. Keeping things in spec
> seems like an easier way to get by.
>
> Eric P
>
Do you have any way to measure the depth of your slots ( as you stated that
they are at or close to the limit ) that may tell me how far I can cut the
top of mine down ( as I don't have the miter gauge at this time:-) I could
machine off some material off the gauge bar but like I would rather not.
Did you see how they set up the tops for the machine work? do they shim
them to level on the mag chuck ( I assume that they are blanchard ground?) ?
Thanks
William....
>
>
> > How did they deal with the depth of the miter gauge slots, or did they
at
> > all ? I assume that your 66 has the same "T" slots as my 72 has. I
have
> > been thinking about running my top through my wide belt sander, as it is
> > equiped with a contact roller soft enough for use on metal.
> >
> > William.....
> >
> > www.wacworkshop.com
> >
> >
>
>
"Eric P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> and wow what a way to make a machine look/feel like NEW. Bought a used
> Powermatic 66 last Fall (love the saw!) and after close inspection noticed
> the top bowed down slightly, about a 40 thousandths dip, probably due to
> abuse. Not a big deal but it meant I had to re-sqaure the blade for
> different width boards. I almost faired the top with an epoxy grahpite
> mixture but ran across a Blanchard grinder a couple hours away. Called
the
> guy and he said "hey Powermatic makes their tops near you, take it to
them".
> Well I'll be, the very shop where they grind and machine them is less than
> 90 minutes from me. Took it to them and they said it could be re-worked.
> Picked it up today and it's like a mirror and FLAT FLAT FLAT! Also got to
> take a tour of where the tops are made. It's one helluva operation and
nice
> to know one of the things that Powermatic has done so well for so long has
> managed to stay home and not turn chiwanese. Powermatic will get my
> business again.
>
> --
> Eric P
>
>
How did they deal with the depth of the miter gauge slots, or did they at
all ? I assume that your 66 has the same "T" slots as my 72 has. I have
been thinking about running my top through my wide belt sander, as it is
equiped with a contact roller soft enough for use on metal.
William.....
www.wacworkshop.com
"William" <wac@_nospam_gene-o-tech.com> wrote in message news:<Q0Sic.32527$_L6.1796442@attbi_s53>...
> How did they deal with the depth of the miter gauge slots, or did they at
> all ? I assume that your 66 has the same "T" slots as my 72 has. I have
> been thinking about running my top through my wide belt sander, as it is
> equiped with a contact roller soft enough for use on metal.
EEK! NO!
Your wide belt sander is at best going to provide you with a perfectly
straight edge in one plane, and that only if you had a perfectly
straight drum (not a chance).
Imagine for a moment you had a table that was a cylinder section, and
the sander drum was a perfect cylinder, it would go in the sander
fine, but it would not come out flat.
In practice you are not even going to do that well, your sander is
probably way more out of whack than the worst table saw top you could
imagine. If you looked at the drum on a scale of thousandths it is
going to look like a wobbly potters vase - and that before you put the
paper onto it.
The only way to get a flat surface is to use a tool that is designed
to create a surface flatter than its own tolerances - like blanchard
grinding. At a reported $100 that is a great deal to fix a $2000++
machine (I know you can buy a Unisaw for $1800, possibly less if you
go second hand, but add in set up time...).
Question is whether I could take the flat but not mirror polished top
of my unisaw and get it machined to the ludicrous mirror finish of the
powermatic. I don't imagine for a minute that this would improve the
working of the machine, but that mirror finish sure looks really cool.
Phillip Hallam-Baker writes:
>Question is whether I could take the flat but not mirror polished top
>of my unisaw and get it machined to the ludicrous mirror finish of the
>powermatic. I don't imagine for a minute that this would improve the
>working of the machine, but that mirror finish sure looks really cool.
For a bit. It's really not so great after you put your sweaty palm down on it
the first time and don't notice.
Charlie Self
"Wars spring from unseen and generally insignificant causes, the first outbreak
being often but an explosion of anger." Thucydides
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> I'm curious what they charged for the grinding.
Profit? It's a business, and the saw was out of warranty. Ford would
charge to straighen the frame on a 1985 car...
-Mike
Dang, sorry for my other post, I read your question as "why" they
charged for the grinding.
My bad.
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:54:22 -0500, "Eric P" <[email protected]>
> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
> >Well I'll be, the very shop where they grind and machine them is less than
> >90 minutes from me. Took it to them and they said it could be re-worked.
> >Picked it up today and it's like a mirror and FLAT FLAT FLAT! Also got to
> >take a tour of where the tops are made. It's one helluva operation and nice
> >to know one of the things that Powermatic has done so well for so long has
> >managed to stay home and not turn chiwanese. Powermatic will get my
> >business again.
>
> I'm curious what they charged for the grinding.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
> It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Eric P" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> and wow what a way to make a machine look/feel like NEW. Bought a used
> Powermatic 66 last Fall (love the saw!) and after close inspection noticed
> the top bowed down slightly, about a 40 thousandths dip, probably due to
> abuse. Not a big deal but it meant I had to re-sqaure the blade for
> different width boards. I almost faired the top with an epoxy grahpite
> mixture but ran across a Blanchard grinder a couple hours away. Called the
> guy and he said "hey Powermatic makes their tops near you, take it to them".
> Well I'll be, the very shop where they grind and machine them is less than
> 90 minutes from me. Took it to them and they said it could be re-worked.
> Picked it up today and it's like a mirror and FLAT FLAT FLAT! Also got to
> take a tour of where the tops are made. It's one helluva operation and nice
> to know one of the things that Powermatic has done so well for so long has
> managed to stay home and not turn chiwanese. Powermatic will get my
> business again.
Did you take the top in, or the whole saw? The reason I am asking is
that I have heard that you can distort the top of a saw by the way it
is bolted to a cabinet.
Just curious.
Scott
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:28:01 -0500, "Eric P" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Scott
>
>I took the top in three pieces. Not sure if I could bend it out of shape
>just by bolting it on unless something was trapped between the the top and
>the cabinet.
cast iron will flex more than you probably think. if the cabinet rim
and the mounting bosses of the saw table aren't in the same plane, the
top will probably be the one that gives.
William wrote:
>How did they deal with the depth of the miter gauge slots, or did they at
>all ?
Lately I've been pondering the uselessness of miter gages.
For cross cutting a sled is a way better way to go. For
angles a miter saw can't be beat. Yes there are those
instances where a gage is useful but I find myself trying to
get around it.
Oh, all you have to do is have the bar on your favorite gage
skimmed down a couple of thou.
UA100
On 24 Apr 2004 15:00:24 -0700, [email protected] (Mike Reed)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Dang, sorry for my other post, I read your question as "why" they
>charged for the grinding.
>
>My bad.
Too late. I had already replied. ;)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks!
William....
"Eric P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> William
>
> The slots are right at 3/8" deep.
>
> --
> Eric P
>
>
On 24 Apr 2004 13:12:30 -0700, [email protected] (Mike Reed)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>> I'm curious what they charged for the grinding.
>
>Profit? It's a business, and the saw was out of warranty. Ford would
>charge to straighen the frame on a 1985 car...
I said "what", not why, Mikey. Let me rephrase that as a
question for you. I'll type real slowly + mouth the words
so you catch it this time, too:
"How much did Powermatic charge to grind the top?"
(Sorry, low tolerance today.)
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It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:54:22 -0500, "Eric P" <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Well I'll be, the very shop where they grind and machine them is less than
>90 minutes from me. Took it to them and they said it could be re-worked.
>Picked it up today and it's like a mirror and FLAT FLAT FLAT! Also got to
>take a tour of where the tops are made. It's one helluva operation and nice
>to know one of the things that Powermatic has done so well for so long has
>managed to stay home and not turn chiwanese. Powermatic will get my
>business again.
I'm curious what they charged for the grinding.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------