If you don't get Fine Woodworking magazine take yourself off to a
store and buy the latest copy. It has a *great* article on furniture
design that explains proportions and how to apply them better than
anything I've ever seen. It is an absolute must have IMO. I'm going to
make a copy to stick in my design notebook, just so it is there when I
need it. What I've discovered is that my eye is pretty good. My
designs that look right to me seem to fit the "ideal" mathematical
model pretty closely.
Check it out.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Tim Douglass wrote:
> pay for what I make at this point - but I've seen a lot of "I designed
> it myself" stuff that makes me cringe, no matter how well it is put
> together. To my mind, good design is possibly even more important than
> good woodworking.
I've designed almost everything I've ever built, and it's well-proportioned
and pleasing to the eye, dammit, without ever reading anything about how to
design stuff.
One thing, I almost never take measurements. It's all by eyeball to get the
overall proportions, then everything built relative to that as needed. I
rarely measure anything with a ruler, and my pieces wind up with dimensions
like 13 17/64" or whatever.
Of course, I don't make case goods, tables, chairs and such either.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
> The kids I know today have no imagination, and short attention spans
> from TV and P.S. Wonder what they'll turn into as adults...
>
Gen X wanna-bees.
--
Think thrice, measure twice and cut once.
Sanding is like paying taxes ... everyone has to do it, but it is
important to take steps to minimize it.
There is only one period and no underscores in the real email address.
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On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:48:06 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Oh man! ... a cardboard tube was a rare find that could excite the
>imagination beyond belief.
Cardboard tubes are also great for driving dogs and cats crazy with
funny voices. <G>
Barry
Check out a book titled "Measure Twice Cut Once" By Jim Tolpin ISBN
1-55870-428-0. This book has more detail on the golden triangle not to
mention all the other design criteria and layout techniques that goes into a
good design.
I usually don't keep books in the shop (only as needed) but this one stays
in the shop 24-7-365
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Boy howdy, do I agree! Design is _much_ harder than woodworking to my way
of
> thinking, and I may be the biggest failure I know in that regard. I have
yet
> to be pleased with anything I've designed thus far ... including what I am
> working on at the moment. I often get the feeling that I should've quit on
> those 2X4 projects back in high school.
>
> I would think that prototypes are a must for good original design.
> Unfortunately I can rarely afford the luxury, in either materials, or
time.
> I try to shortcut that with scale drawings as best I can, but still fall
far
> short of what I consider pleasing.
>
> I am going to go out this evening and pickup a copy of the magazine ... to
> go with the books I have on furniture design, which haven't helped thus
far.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/23/03
>
>
> "Tim Douglass" wrote in message
>
> > Well, I don't deal with customers - there isn't a person alive who'd
> > pay for what I make at this point - but I've seen a lot of "I designed
> > it myself" stuff that makes me cringe, no matter how well it is put
> > together. To my mind, good design is possibly even more important than
> > good woodworking.
>
>
Silvan said:
>I still treasure duct tape to this day, and use it sparingly, as though it
>were extremely expensive.
Have you considered a duct tape and waxed cardboard workshop?
<g>
As I kid, I played more with cardboard boxes than anything. I built
rocket ships out of refrigerator boxes and wired them up with buttons,
switches, lights and meters from discarded appliances and test
equipment. Even had a two-way radio to talk to 'Mission Control'.
Had a blast! Must have had a vivid imagination back then...
Greg G.
Customer??? Oh, you mean SWMBO...yeah, her math is down pat!
About this big = 3ft
Add a little here = add 1"
That's not quite right = remove 1"
Um...well... = dimensions are good, add Nutmeg!
Looks good to me = the math is spot on!
>
> Same here, but did you ever notice that when a customer "designs" their
> order it usually comes no where close to anything mathematical?
>
Oh man! ... a cardboard tube was a rare find that could excite the
imagination beyond belief. We also fought over Mom's empty wooden thread
spools. With one of those, a popsicle stick, a rubber band, and a button,
you could make a wind up gizmo that would walk across the yard on its own
power ... with NO battery required ... can you imagine that?!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/23/03
<Greg G.> wrote in message
> Silvan said:
>
> >I still treasure duct tape to this day, and use it sparingly, as though
it
> >were extremely expensive.
>
> Have you considered a duct tape and waxed cardboard workshop?
> <g>
>
> As I kid, I played more with cardboard boxes than anything. I built
> rocket ships out of refrigerator boxes and wired them up with buttons,
> switches, lights and meters from discarded appliances and test
> equipment. Even had a two-way radio to talk to 'Mission Control'.
> Had a blast! Must have had a vivid imagination back then...
I would agree - great article.
"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If you don't get Fine Woodworking magazine take yourself off to a
> store and buy the latest copy. It has a *great* article on furniture
> design that explains proportions and how to apply them better than
> anything I've ever seen. It is an absolute must have IMO. I'm going to
> make a copy to stick in my design notebook, just so it is there when I
> need it. What I've discovered is that my eye is pretty good. My
> designs that look right to me seem to fit the "ideal" mathematical
> model pretty closely.
>
> Check it out.
>
> Tim Douglass
>
> http://www.DouglassClan.com
"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If you don't get Fine Woodworking magazine take yourself off to a
> store and buy the latest copy. It has a *great* article on furniture
> design that explains proportions and how to apply them better than
> anything I've ever seen. It is an absolute must have IMO. I'm going to
> make a copy to stick in my design notebook, just so it is there when I
> need it. What I've discovered is that my eye is pretty good. My
> designs that look right to me seem to fit the "ideal" mathematical
> model pretty closely.
>
> Check it out.
>
> Tim Douglass
>
> http://www.DouglassClan.com
It was interesting to see that article. He teaches that same material as a
2 hour seminar at some of "The Woodworking Shows". I sat through the
seminar in October at the show in Costa Mesa.
Boy howdy, do I agree! Design is _much_ harder than woodworking to my way of
thinking, and I may be the biggest failure I know in that regard. I have yet
to be pleased with anything I've designed thus far ... including what I am
working on at the moment. I often get the feeling that I should've quit on
those 2X4 projects back in high school.
I would think that prototypes are a must for good original design.
Unfortunately I can rarely afford the luxury, in either materials, or time.
I try to shortcut that with scale drawings as best I can, but still fall far
short of what I consider pleasing.
I am going to go out this evening and pickup a copy of the magazine ... to
go with the books I have on furniture design, which haven't helped thus far.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/23/03
"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
> Well, I don't deal with customers - there isn't a person alive who'd
> pay for what I make at this point - but I've seen a lot of "I designed
> it myself" stuff that makes me cringe, no matter how well it is put
> together. To my mind, good design is possibly even more important than
> good woodworking.
> My designs that look right to me seem to fit the "ideal" mathematical
model pretty closely.
Tim,
Same here, but did you ever notice that when a customer "designs" their
order it usually comes no where close to anything mathematical?
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Swingman said:
>Oh man! ... a cardboard tube was a rare find that could excite the
>imagination beyond belief. We also fought over Mom's empty wooden thread
>spools. With one of those, a popsicle stick, a rubber band, and a button,
>you could make a wind up gizmo that would walk across the yard on its own
>power ... with NO battery required ... can you imagine that?!
Man, what WILL they think of next...
I made those as well. But they wouldn't make it across the yard, too
much grass. They wood <OT> scoot across the driveway nicely.
The kids I know today have no imagination, and short attention spans
from TV and P.S. Wonder what they'll turn into as adults...
Greg G.
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:16:48 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Tim Douglass wrote:
>
>> pay for what I make at this point - but I've seen a lot of "I designed
>> it myself" stuff that makes me cringe, no matter how well it is put
>> together. To my mind, good design is possibly even more important than
>> good woodworking.
>
>I've designed almost everything I've ever built, and it's well-proportioned
>and pleasing to the eye, dammit, without ever reading anything about how to
>design stuff.
>
>One thing, I almost never take measurements. It's all by eyeball to get the
>overall proportions, then everything built relative to that as needed. I
>rarely measure anything with a ruler, and my pieces wind up with dimensions
>like 13 17/64" or whatever.
>
>Of course, I don't make case goods, tables, chairs and such either.
Eyeball is good. It is what I've done entirely so far, but most of my
design is on paper due to lack of shop (still!), lack of time, lack of
money. What intrigues me is that my idea of what looks good is
confirmed mathematically, and that there is a system I can use to try
to make something look right when my eye fails me.
Back when I did carpentry I built a lot of scaffolding. one of the
tricks was to develop an eye for stresses and loads so that you could
just look at it and tell if it would take the load. One reason why old
buildings stood so well is that the engineering by eye called for much
more strength than was really necessary.
Chair height is a good one to check your eye on. A chair that is even
an inch high or low will look wrong to me.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
<snip>
>
> I would think that prototypes are a must for good original design.
> Unfortunately I can rarely afford the luxury, in either materials, or
time.
> I try to shortcut that with scale drawings as best I can, but still fall
far
> short of what I consider pleasing.
<snip>
It's amazing what you can build with cardboard and masking tape...have done
it a few times now just to see how something will look once installed...
It's both cheap and fast....
Cheers -
Rob
Robin Lee wrote:
> It's amazing what you can build with cardboard and masking tape...have
> done it a few times now just to see how something will look once
> installed...
That brings back memories!
I grew up very poor. All my Star Wars and other toys were made out of
cardboard and masking tape. My AT-AT walked, my X-Wing's wings worked. I
got a lot of mileage out of cardboard and masking tape. Occasionally, if I
had been a very good boy, I'd get some duct tape too.
I still treasure duct tape to this day, and use it sparingly, as though it
were extremely expensive.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Eric Lund" <[email protected]> writes:
> "Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > If you don't get Fine Woodworking magazine take yourself off to a
> > store and buy the latest copy. It has a *great* article on furniture
> > design that explains proportions and how to apply them better than
> > anything I've ever seen...
>
> It was interesting to see that article. He teaches that same material as a
> 2 hour seminar at some of "The Woodworking Shows". I sat through the
> seminar in October at the show in Costa Mesa.
The Minn. Woodworkers' Guild had Graham Blackburn for a two-day seminar
in Minneapolis in November. It was great! In addition to the design
rules, he covered a lot of other topics including the use of round
and molding planes. On the strength of that I bought a few at an
antique store in Austin, Texas -- I'm expecting them to arrive any day
now.
Regards,
Allen
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:34:57 -0500, "Rumpty"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> My designs that look right to me seem to fit the "ideal" mathematical
>model pretty closely.
>
>Tim,
>
>Same here, but did you ever notice that when a customer "designs" their
>order it usually comes no where close to anything mathematical?
Well, I don't deal with customers - there isn't a person alive who'd
pay for what I make at this point - but I've seen a lot of "I designed
it myself" stuff that makes me cringe, no matter how well it is put
together. To my mind, good design is possibly even more important than
good woodworking.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Silvan wrote:
> That brings back memories!
>
> I grew up very poor.
My grandfather bought his ranch in South Dakota in 1927 or '28. He was one
of the few that made it through the dust bowl & depression not losing
everything. Until his dying day (1985 @ 85) he got the maximum distance
from every single penny & nickle. He wasn't a miser -- in his later,
prosperious years, if the right solution was a new tractor because welding
on the old one the umpty-umpth time while crops needed to be harvested meant
losing money -- the new tractor was delivered in the morning. But rest
assured he got a good deal on the trade in. <g>
Yeah, I miss him.
-- Mark