A change of pace from the idiot poster

"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I got a shop full of tools at a good price from a dealer with a local
presence and support. I may could have gotten better prices on
> some of the units from different places on the web, but buying from the
local guy (who also handles Delta, BTW) was important enough
> for me to ignore the difference.

We often forget how important that can be in the light of saving $10 on a
$1000 buy. The local guy is paying taxes to the same community you live in.
The more he pays, the less you do.

Have to agree on the brands also. There may be a particular feature that is
important to you, but most of the brand name tools perform fairly close to
others in the same price range.
Ed

Tom Veatch wrote:
>
Well, the drill press vibrates more than I like at the higher speeds,
> but not enough to make a fuss about.
>
> Oh, just to clarify for the more evil minded of you, the owner gives me great prices and service on the TOOLS, not the daughter.
>
> Tom Veatch
> Wichita, KS USA

But does she vibrate :-)

JJ

I recently bought the Jet mortiser. As I recall it was something like
$179 from Amazon including shipping. I'm quite happy with it. I did
add an x-y vise from Enco as was suggested by Joe Wilding.
http://www.the-wildings.com/shop/

RB

Mark wrote:
> Greetings wreckers,
> Whenever I'm looking into a tool purchase, I value the collective
> opinion of the rec. My TS and SCMS have been 2 recent examples, now
> it's a mortiser that I lust for.
> It looks like it's a 3 horse race, Delta, Jet and Fisch. I read a lot
> of reviews at Amazon, and as usual there are many conflicting opinions.
> I saw some of the Fisch tools at the WWing show, but didn't pay
> attention to their mortiser. They do have a 3/4 HP motor, which the
> others don't have. I bought a set of their Austrian made forstners
> which are very good. I have never heard if Fisch, so I don't know
> anything about them.
> It seems as if Delta is having quality problems again/still. It Amazon
> carries the Fisch for $240, the Delta 651 for $230 and the MM300 for $200.
> Lastly comes the Jet. I am surprised by the volume of positive comments
> about the Jet. Maybe their quality is getting better??? The Jet is a
> 1/2 HP and goes for $200.
> Are there any I'm missing? I prefer a bench top model, but can spend
> up to $400.
> Many thanks in advance,
> Mark
>

The General International 75-075 and the PowerMatic 719A are
out of the price range of those machines he mentioned - in the $8oo
range.

But if he wants to go that route and needs info I put this
together when I was trying to decide. Went with the General
International .
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/Mortiser.html
The next page has a comparison between the GI 75 and the
PM 719A

hope this helps.

BTW - all the mortises in my work bench were done on the
General - lots and lots of mortise and tenon joints.

charlie b

Mark <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Greetings wreckers,
> Whenever I'm looking into a tool purchase, I value the collective
> opinion of the rec. My TS and SCMS have been 2 recent examples, now
> it's a mortiser that I lust for.
> It looks like it's a 3 horse race, Delta, Jet and Fisch. I read a
> lot of reviews at Amazon, and as usual there are many conflicting
> opinions. I saw some of the Fisch tools at the WWing show, but didn't
> pay attention to their mortiser. They do have a 3/4 HP motor, which the
> others don't have. I bought a set of their Austrian made forstners
> which are very good. I have never heard if Fisch, so I don't know
> anything about them.
> It seems as if Delta is having quality problems again/still. It
> Amazon carries the Fisch for $240, the Delta 651 for $230 and the MM300
> for $200.
> Lastly comes the Jet. I am surprised by the volume of positive
> comments about the Jet. Maybe their quality is getting better??? The
> Jet is a 1/2 HP and goes for $200.
> Are there any I'm missing? I prefer a bench top model, but can spend
> up to $400.
> Many thanks in advance,
> Mark

Mark:

We have 6 Delta units here at the school and they have been used and
put through the paces. They perform very well and do a good job with
no service problems. I have sold Jet, Delta, and Fisch: I would
recomend for your budget the Delta. If I were to spend more, I would
buy the Powermatic.
Mike from American Sycamore

"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


Thank you Tom for the story.

I have been into woodworking basically since I was 10. Seriously since
1978. I have been collecting equipment all through those years but confess
that I got the 1 at a time and went with the best review or feature at the
time of the purchase. I do not have a shop full of Jet but do have a 4 year
old Jet cabinet saw and Jet lathe. I was glad to hear that you did the
research and are confident in your local supplier. Enjoy the retirement.

Dear Mark,

Take a look at this model,

http://www.general.ca/product/inter/75050an.html

The General 75-050M1.

I have one and I love it. I have seen and used almost every mortiser out
there and I really think this is the best one. Check around with your local
dealers and see if any of them carry it.

Thanks,

David.

Thanks, David. I looked at their website, but no one is within 400
miles of me. Also checked Amazon, no luck. It does look like a great
machine, though. Mark

David F. Eisan wrote:
> Dear Mark,
>
> Take a look at this model,
>
> http://www.general.ca/product/inter/75050an.html
>
> The General 75-050M1.
>
> I have one and I love it. I have seen and used almost every mortiser out
> there and I really think this is the best one. Check around with your local
> dealers and see if any of them carry it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David.
>
>

"Mike at American Sycamore" wrote in message

> We have 6 Delta units here at the school and they have been used and
> put through the paces. They perform very well and do a good job with
> no service problems.

That's my experience also. I've used a Delta 14-651 hard and have thus far
only had to replace a handle assembly on the fence ($6 part). It's been a
solid, rugged performer for the price.

The only limitation I've run across is the 4 1/4" limit on the height of the
board that can be cut without installing the riser. The included riser will
kick you up to where the this height limitation is not a problem, but at the
expense of not being able to use the fence and hold down ... but that's a
minor issue that's easily overcome.

I would definitely buy another if this one somehow got away from me ... and
that's about the biggest accolade I can pay a tool.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04

Thanks Charlie, I appreciate the reply. IIRC, the 5/8 version is
selling for around $300. The tilting head is definitely nice, but for
me it puts the 75-075 out of my range. If the 70-050 has the same
qualities (but obviously less features) it will be worth a second look.
Mark

charlie b wrote:
> The General International 75-075 and the PowerMatic 719A are
> out of the price range of those machines he mentioned - in the $8oo
> range.
>
> But if he wants to go that route and needs info I put this
> together when I was trying to decide. Went with the General
> International .
> http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/Mortiser.html
> The next page has a comparison between the GI 75 and the
> PM 719A
>
> hope this helps.
>
> BTW - all the mortises in my work bench were done on the
> General - lots and lots of mortise and tenon joints.
>
> charlie b

Which chisels do you use?

Swingman wrote:

> "Mike at American Sycamore" wrote in message
>
>
>>We have 6 Delta units here at the school and they have been used and
>>put through the paces. They perform very well and do a good job with
>>no service problems.
>
>
> That's my experience also. I've used a Delta 14-651 hard and have thus far
> only had to replace a handle assembly on the fence ($6 part). It's been a
> solid, rugged performer for the price.
>
> The only limitation I've run across is the 4 1/4" limit on the height of the
> board that can be cut without installing the riser. The included riser will
> kick you up to where the this height limitation is not a problem, but at the
> expense of not being able to use the fence and hold down ... but that's a
> minor issue that's easily overcome.
>
> I would definitely buy another if this one somehow got away from me ... and
> that's about the biggest accolade I can pay a tool.
>

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:31:30 GMT, Mark <[email protected]> wrote:

-snip-
> Lastly comes the Jet. I am surprised by the volume of positive
>comments about the Jet. Maybe their quality is getting better??? The
>Jet is a 1/2 HP and goes for $200.

Won't speak to the mortiser since I have no first hand experience. But with respect to the Jet brand, every stationary tool in my
shop (jointer, planer, drill press, disk/belt sander, band saw, and cabinet saw) carries the Jet name - mostly because I have a
local Jet dealer who gives me great prices and service, not to mention his daughter works at the store and is quite a looker. I have
no complaints with the quality or performance of any of them. Well, the drill press vibrates more than I like at the higher speeds,
but not enough to make a fuss about.

Oh, just to clarify for the more evil minded of you, the owner gives me great prices and service on the TOOLS, not the daughter.


Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Snip

But with respect to the Jet brand, every stationary tool in my
> shop (jointer, planer, drill press, disk/belt sander, band saw, and
cabinet saw) carries the Jet name - mostly because I have a


Realizing that you feel that you are paying great prices for your equipment,
and since you have ALL Jet equipment in you shop, could you understand how
one might question if you have owned other brands in the past? It could be
that the competition may have a better unit. Basically, did you shop or
research other brands before buying exclusively Jet?

Thanks, Mike. If a unit can hold up to the probable wear and tear at a
school, it's most likely a solid unit. I'll probably go the Delta
route, since it will only be used occasionally. Mark

Mike at American Sycamore wrote:

>
>
>
> Mark:
>
> We have 6 Delta units here at the school and they have been used and
> put through the paces. They perform very well and do a good job with
> no service problems. I have sold Jet, Delta, and Fisch: I would
> recomend for your budget the Delta. If I were to spend more, I would
> buy the Powermatic.
> Mike from American Sycamore

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 04:18:22 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Realizing that you feel that you are paying great prices for your equipment,
>and since you have ALL Jet equipment in you shop, could you understand how
>one might question if you have owned other brands in the past? It could be
>that the competition may have a better unit. Basically, did you shop or
>research other brands before buying exclusively Jet?
>

I certainly understand the question.

With respect to other brands, the only other stationary tools I've owned were a Craftsman 10" contractor style table saw and a
Craftsman 6" jointer as well as other Craftsman portable tools, e.g. router, circular saw, etc. These were all mostly 1970's vintage
at a time when Craftsman had about as good a reputation, AFAIK, for power tools as they did for mechanics hand tools. At that time,
I was also coming out of my Father's tutelage during the 50's and 60's during which time his devotion to Craftsman tools was a
strong influence on me. So, you can rightfully say my "hands on" experience with various brands is limited.

With respect to research, you better believe it. A good, well-equipped woodshop had long been a goal of mine and when I retired I
decided that it was "now or never". Starting from scratch to outfit a workshop is not an inexpensive undertaking. While I was not
destitute, having received a generous severance package on retirement, which I thought of as "found money", I saw no reason to spend
more than was necessary. At the time I started looking, I had never even heard of "Jet", "Grizzly", "Delta", etc, and my first
reaction was that they were some kind of "off-brand" stuff. I had at least heard the names "Skil", "Black and Decker", "DeWalt",
etc. because of their lines of portable tools and my Father's influence. So, I lurked in various places on the web, including the
"Wreck" and some other discussion boards, paying close attention to the "cussing and discussing" of various brands. This, at least,
gave me a feel for the reputations of the various vendors of stationary tools. I also searched the web for any reviews I could find
of tools from those new, to me, tool maker/importers.

From those discussions, reviews, and propaganda from the companies themselves, I came to the conclusion that none of them were
perfect, there were advantages and disadvantages to each brand and each tool within those brands, but that any of them were more
than capable of doing what I needed. So, I put together a shopping list of tool types and sizes and went out for pricing. My local
dealer, was not the cheapest, but he beat or matched every web vendor's price for the individual tool as well as offering a
significant discount for a package of the complete shopping list.

To me, it was a no-brainer. Perhaps none of the tools are individually the "Best", whatever that indefinable concept might be. But,
I got a shop full of tools at a good price from a dealer with a local presence and support. I may could have gotten better prices on
some of the units from different places on the web, but buying from the local guy (who also handles Delta, BTW) was important enough
for me to ignore the difference.

I'm quite happy and content with that decision. And my wife seem to be, also. At least she has plenty of sawdust mulch for her
trees.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA

I had a Delta 651 on order from Amazon since March 17. A couple
of days ago, they informed me that it would be delayed until the
end of May-early June. I don't have time for this, so I cancelled the
order and ordered the Jet. The decision to buy the Delta was based
on net reviews, and it just looks stouter than anyhing else. But I can't
wait forever. The Jets been around awhile and has overall positive
reviews ( all benchtops suffer in the holdown department), so I'm sure
I'll be happy with it.


"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Greetings wreckers,
> Whenever I'm looking into a tool purchase, I value the collective
> opinion of the rec. My TS and SCMS have been 2 recent examples, now
> it's a mortiser that I lust for.
> It looks like it's a 3 horse race, Delta, Jet and Fisch. I read a
> lot of reviews at Amazon, and as usual there are many conflicting
> opinions. I saw some of the Fisch tools at the WWing show, but didn't
> pay attention to their mortiser. They do have a 3/4 HP motor, which the
> others don't have. I bought a set of their Austrian made forstners
> which are very good. I have never heard if Fisch, so I don't know
> anything about them.
> It seems as if Delta is having quality problems again/still. It
> Amazon carries the Fisch for $240, the Delta 651 for $230 and the MM300
> for $200.
> Lastly comes the Jet. I am surprised by the volume of positive
> comments about the Jet. Maybe their quality is getting better??? The
> Jet is a 1/2 HP and goes for $200.
> Are there any I'm missing? I prefer a bench top model, but can spend
> up to $400.
> Many thanks in advance,
> Mark
>

"Mark" wrote in message
> Which chisels do you use?

I rotate the ones that came with the unit with three extra's of each size
from Lee Valley. I keep them all sharp with the Lee Valley hollow chisel
honing tool (Lee Valley item 77J81.20) on my drill press, and 'scary sharp'
the outside edges flat, as the points will tend to curl with use.

I've pretty well proved to myself that it's not really where they are made,
or how much you pay for them, but whether you take the time to sharpen them
between use, and how you use them. IOW, don't bull or hog your way through a
mortise with these benchtop machines ... if your chisel ends turn blue
you're ruining the chisel and wasting time.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04

"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The General International 75-075 and the PowerMatic 719A are
> out of the price range of those machines he mentioned - in the $8oo
> range.
> http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/Mortiser.html

It's sure a nice machine, but unless you're constructing something like
chairs or other projects needing angled mortises all day long, it sounds a
little excessive. What are you constructing that you felt you needed it and
how often do you use the angle feature?

Do you feel that the beefiness of this machine is also instrumental in the
drilling of regular mortises making it desirable even if one doesn't often
do angled mortises.

Thanks.