OK, I know that a direct drive is directly driven off the motor, and a belt
drive runs off a belt attached to motor. But why would one bet better than
the other? I gather that belt drive is preffered, but why? I'm looking at
getting the Ryobi bts20. I was looking at the bts3100 but I don't like the
table. One difference between the two is the drive, the 3100 is belt. Of
course the bts20 is cheaper as well, but what's got my attention is the
size and portablility. The Bts20 has a collapsable stand on wheels.
Now I'm a home owner who does the occasion job around the house, I'm
building cabinets or anything. I've gotten a crafstman $160 unit, and the
moter burnt out on it. this is why I'm wondering about the direct/belt
deal. The BTS20 has a 14 amp moter, with 4800 rpm, same as the 3100.
Paul.
Paul Udstrand <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> OK, I know that a direct drive is directly driven off the motor, and a belt
> drive runs off a belt attached to motor. But why would one bet better than
> the other? I gather that belt drive is preffered, but why? I'm looking at
> getting the Ryobi bts20. I was looking at the bts3100 but I don't like the
> table. One difference between the two is the drive, the 3100 is belt. Of
> course the bts20 is cheaper as well, but what's got my attention is the
> size and portablility. The Bts20 has a collapsable stand on wheels.
>
> Now I'm a home owner who does the occasion job around the house, I'm
> building cabinets or anything. I've gotten a crafstman $160 unit, and the
> moter burnt out on it. this is why I'm wondering about the direct/belt
> deal. The BTS20 has a 14 amp moter, with 4800 rpm, same as the 3100.
>
> Paul.
Paul,
Sounds as if an inexpensive direct drive table saw would fit your
needs. When buying a direct drive saw you are buying a disposable
piece of equipment fore the cost of a replacement motor is usually
just about equal to the cost of the total unit. With a belt drive
there are many manufactures that make a motor that will fit, with a
direct drive you are at mercy of the manufacture and will pay a much
higher price for the replacement motor. With your limited needs, I
would not worry about this. Good luck.
Mike
If that's the case, it is do to quality of construction, not drive type as
direct drive is inherently smoother.
"Chris Melanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:TaIic.1618$X52.1076@clgrps12...
> What I had to agree with Edwin. Is that I find belt drives are smoother
than
> direct drives. So I am perfectly clear OK. That's all.
>
> CHRIS
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I never said go with direct drive. In this application, it makes sense.
> The
> > only thing I disagree with is that direct drive is smoother, it isn't.
> > "Chris Melanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:t4Gic.5349$i61.5003@clgrps13...
> > > On this one I have to agree with Edwin belt driven is the way to
go.
> > > Every saw in the shop is belt driven. From the smallest installers
> saw
> > > all the way up to the sliding panel saws. On industrial saws you would
> not
> > > be able to have a large enough direct drive motor that would not
> interfere
> > > with blade height.
> > >
> > > CHRIS
> > >
> > > "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > "Paul Udstrand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > > OK, I know that a direct drive is directly driven off the motor,
> and
> > a
> > > > > belt
> > > > > > drive runs off a belt attached to motor. But why would one bet
> > better
> > > > > than
> > > > > > the other?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Most direct drives are built with very noisy universal motors.
The
> > belt
> > > > > drives use quiet, smoother running induction motors.
> > > >
> > > > Most of what you find these days in direct drive are universals but
> not
> > > all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Direct drive saws are made that way to save money. Belt drive
> > requires
> > > > more
> > > > > parts but will run smoother.
> > > >
> > > > Direct drives are inherently smoother. Less parts mean less
vibration
> > and
> > > > belts are vibration causes, second only to chains. Idustrial
machinery
> > > where
> > > > lack of vibration (mainly grinders) is paramount use direct drive.
> > > >
> > > > > In general, the higher the price the better
> > > > > the saw. What do you need? Depends on what your goal is. Cut a
2
> x
> > 4
> > > > for
> > > > > framing? Cheap saw is good enough. Want to build nice cabinets
or
> > > > > furniture? Plan to spend closer to $750 to $1000 for a much better
> > saw.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you get for the money? Cast iron table instead of
aluminum.
> > > > Larger
> > > > > table making cross cuts easier, better fence that locks accurately
> and
> > > > > firmly, less vibration. More power that is needed for cutting
> thicker
> > > > > material.
> > > >
> > > > Good advice here.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your money, your choice.
> > > > > Ed
> > > > > [email protected]
> > > > > http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--
"Paul Udstrand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I know that a direct drive is directly driven off the motor, and a
belt
> drive runs off a belt attached to motor. But why would one bet better
than
> the other?
Most direct drives are built with very noisy universal motors. The belt
drives use quiet, smoother running induction motors.
Direct drive saws are made that way to save money. Belt drive requires more
parts but will run smoother. In general, the higher the price the better
the saw. What do you need? Depends on what your goal is. Cut a 2 x 4 for
framing? Cheap saw is good enough. Want to build nice cabinets or
furniture? Plan to spend closer to $750 to $1000 for a much better saw.
What do you get for the money? Cast iron table instead of aluminum. Larger
table making cross cuts easier, better fence that locks accurately and
firmly, less vibration. More power that is needed for cutting thicker
material.
Your money, your choice.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
While there have been some good direct drives made, you are right that most
often it is the low quality ones that are made this way.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> --
>
>
> >
> > "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I never said go with direct drive. In this application, it makes
sense.
> > The
> > > only thing I disagree with is that direct drive is smoother, it isn't.
>
> In this application it usually is. I agree that direct drive may be
> inherently smoother, but other factors come into play. The quality of the
> driver, the substance of the mount, the balance of the part being driven,
> the quality of the bearings, concentricity of the shaft. Direct drive
saws
> are usually made cheap and the factors that inherently make it smoother
are
> not all there. Good chance that a $900 Delta is going to run smoother
than
> any $139 direct drive.
>
> Another point I forgot to mention is the ability to take a dado blade.
Some
> direct drives are too short for the wider dado stacks.
> Ed
> [email protected]
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>
What I had to agree with Edwin. Is that I find belt drives are smoother than
direct drives. So I am perfectly clear OK. That's all.
CHRIS
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I never said go with direct drive. In this application, it makes sense.
The
> only thing I disagree with is that direct drive is smoother, it isn't.
> "Chris Melanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:t4Gic.5349$i61.5003@clgrps13...
> > On this one I have to agree with Edwin belt driven is the way to go.
> > Every saw in the shop is belt driven. From the smallest installers
saw
> > all the way up to the sliding panel saws. On industrial saws you would
not
> > be able to have a large enough direct drive motor that would not
interfere
> > with blade height.
> >
> > CHRIS
> >
> > "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > "Paul Udstrand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > OK, I know that a direct drive is directly driven off the motor,
and
> a
> > > > belt
> > > > > drive runs off a belt attached to motor. But why would one bet
> better
> > > > than
> > > > > the other?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Most direct drives are built with very noisy universal motors. The
> belt
> > > > drives use quiet, smoother running induction motors.
> > >
> > > Most of what you find these days in direct drive are universals but
not
> > all.
> > > >
> > > > Direct drive saws are made that way to save money. Belt drive
> requires
> > > more
> > > > parts but will run smoother.
> > >
> > > Direct drives are inherently smoother. Less parts mean less vibration
> and
> > > belts are vibration causes, second only to chains. Idustrial machinery
> > where
> > > lack of vibration (mainly grinders) is paramount use direct drive.
> > >
> > > > In general, the higher the price the better
> > > > the saw. What do you need? Depends on what your goal is. Cut a 2
x
> 4
> > > for
> > > > framing? Cheap saw is good enough. Want to build nice cabinets or
> > > > furniture? Plan to spend closer to $750 to $1000 for a much better
> saw.
> > > >
> > > > What do you get for the money? Cast iron table instead of aluminum.
> > > Larger
> > > > table making cross cuts easier, better fence that locks accurately
and
> > > > firmly, less vibration. More power that is needed for cutting
thicker
> > > > material.
> > >
> > > Good advice here.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Your money, your choice.
> > > > Ed
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in news:ITzic.273$V_5.247
@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com:
>
>
Hey Edwin,
Thanks, it sounds like the direct drive will do me fine. I'm not worried
about the noise, and I'll not be building any fancy furniture, an
ocassional book shelf if that.
Paul.
Time for my $.25. I'll not comment on the smoothness of DD vs belt, as I
have no recent experience with belt. What I do have is a early '80's vintage
DD Crapsman Contractor style with aluminum table & stamped steel wings that
I purchased used about 5 yr. ago for < $200. This unit IS an induction
drive, not universal, so is very quiet, and with a good blade is very
smooth(I've had a couple blades that the saw wouldn't keep a lead weight on
the table, never mind a nickel!). Probably the most improvement was a set of
blade stabilizer washers, as the original stamped steel ones allowed a lot
of wobble. This unit could definitely use some more power, but with a little
care in feeding and using the right blade for the job, it has done
everything I've asked of it.
I can definitely say that I would not care for one with a universal motor
a'la my DW planer, routers, etc. They scream too much!
--
Nahmie
The first myth of management is that management exists.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.657 / Virus Database: 422 - Release Date: 4/13/2004
--
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I never said go with direct drive. In this application, it makes sense.
> The
> > only thing I disagree with is that direct drive is smoother, it isn't.
In this application it usually is. I agree that direct drive may be
inherently smoother, but other factors come into play. The quality of the
driver, the substance of the mount, the balance of the part being driven,
the quality of the bearings, concentricity of the shaft. Direct drive saws
are usually made cheap and the factors that inherently make it smoother are
not all there. Good chance that a $900 Delta is going to run smoother than
any $139 direct drive.
Another point I forgot to mention is the ability to take a dado blade. Some
direct drives are too short for the wider dado stacks.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Ed Pawlowski writes:
>
>In this application it usually is. I agree that direct drive may be
>inherently smoother, but other factors come into play. The quality of the
>driver, the substance of the mount, the balance of the part being driven,
>the quality of the bearings, concentricity of the shaft. Direct drive saws
>are usually made cheap and the factors that inherently make it smoother are
>not all there. Good chance that a $900 Delta is going to run smoother than
>any $139 direct drive.
>
Yeah, but is the $900 Delta going to run smoother than the $400 Bosch, or the
$450 Ridgid, or the...you get the idea. There is more money in the Delta for
table, cabinet, fence than there is in any direct drive table saw, but there
are features in direct drive that the so-called contractor's saw can never
address, one being weight. At this moment, I have 4 direct drive saws in my
shop, with more coming. I've been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the
fences, the power of the motors (but they're still not as good as the true
1-1/2 HP motors on contractor's saws in terms of power), the overall handling,
and the added new features. Fences are better, as noted: in addition, every
single one so far has a pull out extension to get the cut to or past 24", with
many having rear extensions. Several have fold up stands, stands that in the
case of the Ryobi, Ridgid and Craftsman sort of turn the unit into a
wheelbarrow style easy to roll device.
And every one of them has that cursed floppy top guard and splitter that is a
PITA to install and remove and almost always needs re-adjustment on
re-installation.
Still, for a first table saw, or for a table saw for someone with limited shop
space, they'd be hard to beat.
The purpose for which they are now named, as exemplified by the Craftsman, is
the job site. In other words, these are today's true contractor's saws, aimed
at those who toss a saw into a truck at day's end and haul it out again in the
morning. It's a lot more pleasant with 60 pounds than it is with 300.
I haven't yet measured arbor lengths on the saws so can't comment on arbor
lengths.
Charlie Self
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance
of being right." Thomas Paine
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Yeah, but is the $900 Delta going to run smoother than the $400 Bosch, or
the
> $450 Ridgid, or the...you get the idea.
Sounds like you will be telling us in a month or two when an article hits
the news stands.
Inexpensive saws do have a place in woodworking.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
Ed Pawlowski writes:
>"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> Yeah, but is the $900 Delta going to run smoother than the $400 Bosch, or
>the
>> $450 Ridgid, or the...you get the idea.
>
>
>Sounds like you will be telling us in a month or two when an article hits
>the news stands.
>
>Inexpensive saws do have a place in woodworking.
Probably not. The article is for a contractor's magazine that is subscription
only to remodeling contractors.
Charlie Self
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance
of being right." Thomas Paine
"KB8QLR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Another thing to think about...If the saw sees some unusual amount of
> stress, the belt may break saving the motor. Belts are cheaper than
motors.
> Nuff said?
> Have fun !
Interesting thought but with most contractors saws with a single belt the
belt is quite likely to slip if it is worn rather than break especially if
the blade comes under a load. With a belt in good condition the motor is
likely to stall. 3 belts on most cabinet saws are used to help prevent
the slipping.
I never said go with direct drive. In this application, it makes sense. The
only thing I disagree with is that direct drive is smoother, it isn't.
"Chris Melanson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:t4Gic.5349$i61.5003@clgrps13...
> On this one I have to agree with Edwin belt driven is the way to go.
> Every saw in the shop is belt driven. From the smallest installers saw
> all the way up to the sliding panel saws. On industrial saws you would not
> be able to have a large enough direct drive motor that would not interfere
> with blade height.
>
> CHRIS
>
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > "Paul Udstrand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > OK, I know that a direct drive is directly driven off the motor, and
a
> > > belt
> > > > drive runs off a belt attached to motor. But why would one bet
better
> > > than
> > > > the other?
> >
> > >
> > > Most direct drives are built with very noisy universal motors. The
belt
> > > drives use quiet, smoother running induction motors.
> >
> > Most of what you find these days in direct drive are universals but not
> all.
> > >
> > > Direct drive saws are made that way to save money. Belt drive
requires
> > more
> > > parts but will run smoother.
> >
> > Direct drives are inherently smoother. Less parts mean less vibration
and
> > belts are vibration causes, second only to chains. Idustrial machinery
> where
> > lack of vibration (mainly grinders) is paramount use direct drive.
> >
> > > In general, the higher the price the better
> > > the saw. What do you need? Depends on what your goal is. Cut a 2 x
4
> > for
> > > framing? Cheap saw is good enough. Want to build nice cabinets or
> > > furniture? Plan to spend closer to $750 to $1000 for a much better
saw.
> > >
> > > What do you get for the money? Cast iron table instead of aluminum.
> > Larger
> > > table making cross cuts easier, better fence that locks accurately and
> > > firmly, less vibration. More power that is needed for cutting thicker
> > > material.
> >
> > Good advice here.
> >
> > >
> > > Your money, your choice.
> > > Ed
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
On this one I have to agree with Edwin belt driven is the way to go.
Every saw in the shop is belt driven. From the smallest installers saw
all the way up to the sliding panel saws. On industrial saws you would not
be able to have a large enough direct drive motor that would not interfere
with blade height.
CHRIS
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > "Paul Udstrand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > OK, I know that a direct drive is directly driven off the motor, and a
> > belt
> > > drive runs off a belt attached to motor. But why would one bet better
> > than
> > > the other?
>
> >
> > Most direct drives are built with very noisy universal motors. The belt
> > drives use quiet, smoother running induction motors.
>
> Most of what you find these days in direct drive are universals but not
all.
> >
> > Direct drive saws are made that way to save money. Belt drive requires
> more
> > parts but will run smoother.
>
> Direct drives are inherently smoother. Less parts mean less vibration and
> belts are vibration causes, second only to chains. Idustrial machinery
where
> lack of vibration (mainly grinders) is paramount use direct drive.
>
> > In general, the higher the price the better
> > the saw. What do you need? Depends on what your goal is. Cut a 2 x 4
> for
> > framing? Cheap saw is good enough. Want to build nice cabinets or
> > furniture? Plan to spend closer to $750 to $1000 for a much better saw.
> >
> > What do you get for the money? Cast iron table instead of aluminum.
> Larger
> > table making cross cuts easier, better fence that locks accurately and
> > firmly, less vibration. More power that is needed for cutting thicker
> > material.
>
> Good advice here.
>
> >
> > Your money, your choice.
> > Ed
> > [email protected]
> > http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
> >
> >
>
>
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> --
>
> "Paul Udstrand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > OK, I know that a direct drive is directly driven off the motor, and a
> belt
> > drive runs off a belt attached to motor. But why would one bet better
> than
> > the other?
>
> Most direct drives are built with very noisy universal motors. The belt
> drives use quiet, smoother running induction motors.
Most of what you find these days in direct drive are universals but not all.
>
> Direct drive saws are made that way to save money. Belt drive requires
more
> parts but will run smoother.
Direct drives are inherently smoother. Less parts mean less vibration and
belts are vibration causes, second only to chains. Idustrial machinery where
lack of vibration (mainly grinders) is paramount use direct drive.
> In general, the higher the price the better
> the saw. What do you need? Depends on what your goal is. Cut a 2 x 4
for
> framing? Cheap saw is good enough. Want to build nice cabinets or
> furniture? Plan to spend closer to $750 to $1000 for a much better saw.
>
> What do you get for the money? Cast iron table instead of aluminum.
Larger
> table making cross cuts easier, better fence that locks accurately and
> firmly, less vibration. More power that is needed for cutting thicker
> material.
Good advice here.
>
> Your money, your choice.
> Ed
> [email protected]
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>