Hi all,
There have been a few discussions lately about making chords for 240V
machines by changing the connectors on a heavy gauge 120V chord that can be
purchased.
Harbor Freight has a 50' 12AWG chord on sale for about $11 this week.
Similar SJ cable is at least $0.60/ft at the Borg so this is a steal for
the raw cable alone.
If you need to go this route, be sure to do the math to determine your
maximum length for the current requirement. Failure to do so could result in
motor damage or fire hazard. Don't forget the length of wire in the wall.
Tom
Wed, Jan 28, 2004, 3:07pm (EST-1) [email protected] (Tom) says:
There have been a few discussions lately about making chords <snip>
Harbor Freight has a 50' 12AWG chord on sale <snip>
This cracked me up. But, at least you're consistent.
If it goes over anyone's head, look up chord in the dictioary.
JOAT
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's
probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on
you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again..
- G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
"T." wrote:
> Wed, Jan 28, 2004, 3:07pm (EST-1) [email protected] (Tom) says:
> There have been a few discussions lately about making chords <snip>
> Harbor Freight has a 50' 12AWG chord on sale <snip>
>
> This cracked me up. But, at least you're consistent.
>
> If it goes over anyone's head, look up chord in the dictioary.
>
> JOAT
But, but ........ His spell checker said it was correct!!!!
ARM
Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
> going up _three_ wire guages e.g. 14 to 11, _doubles_ the cross-sectional
> are of the wire, and, thus cuts the resistance _in_the_wire_, by 75%.
> and the 'losses' in the wiring are 1/16th the size.
Double the cross section area cuts the resistance in half. NOT by "75%.
...lew...
In article <[email protected]>,
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>He's right, your calcs are off. You're thinking one dimension whereas you
>need to work with two.
Sorry, you're wrong. Lewis was correct when he said _I_ was in error.
I was already talking about cross-sectional _area_ of the wire, not diameter.
It's a real simple situation, Two like-sized resistors in parallel have
1/2 the resistance of either resistor, singly. And, a wire of '2X' _cross-
sectional_area_ *is* identical to 2 parallel wires of '1X` cross-section.
No excuses. I had 'sense organ cluster all jammed up ventral orifice' -- as it
was once put, in one of my favorite science-fiction stories. :)
>
>Example: a diameter of 25
>
>Diameter = 2*Radius
>25=2*Radius
>Radius=12.5
>Area=3.14*12.5*12.5
>Area=490.625
>
>Example: a diameter of 50
>Diameter = 2*Radius
>50=2*Radius
>Radius=25
>Area=3.14*25*25
>Area=1962.5
>
>Thus the area (capacity) of the double sized circle (cable) is 4 times the
>size of the original (or 3 times larger)
>The resistance in the doubled circle (cable) is 1/4 that of the smaller
>circle, hence the 75% reduction in resistance
>
>Not picking or insulting, it just got my math working! LOL
>
>
>
>
>"Lewis Hartswick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> >
>> > going up _three_ wire guages e.g. 14 to 11, _doubles_ the
>cross-sectional
>> > are of the wire, and, thus cuts the resistance _in_the_wire_, by 75%.
>> > and the 'losses' in the wiring are 1/16th the size.
>>
>> Double the cross section area cuts the resistance in half. NOT by "75%.
>> ...lew...
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:05:59 +0000, [email protected]
>(Robert Bonomi) brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>No excuses. I had 'sense organ cluster all jammed up ventral orifice' -- as it
>>was once put, in one of my favorite science-fiction stories. :)
>
>I'm glad you got it straightened out.
>
>Now, having researched your quote there, I find that
>Keith Laumer is no Heinlein/Asimov/Clarke/Niven.
True. But to one with exposure to politics and/or diplomatic circles,
this particular set of stories is *excruciatingly* funny. The fact
that Laumer was _in_ the diplomatic corps, and many of his characters
are supposedly modeled on various 'real people' may well have something
to do with it.
>Methinks it's time for another Niven book. I haven't
>finished his array yet.
>
>http://www.baen.com/library/0671318578/0671318578__c_.htm
>Retief!
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>ONLY HUMANITY'S TWO-FISTED
>DIPLOMAT CAN SAVE U5 NOW !
>"... into the chaotic Galactic political scene, the CDT emerged to
>carry forward the ancient diplomatic tradition . . : Corps diplomats
>displayed an encyclopedic grasp of the nuances of Extra-Terrestrial
>mores asset against the labyrinthine socio-politico-economic Galactic
>context..."
>
>Official History of the Corps Diplomatique, AD 2940 NOT! What they
>really had was Retief! Ignore the official versionin these pages is
>the real story of how Retief tied the bad guys' eye-stalks in knots,
>and made the Galaxy safe for humanity.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> CAUTION: Driver Legally B l o n d (e)
> http://www.diversify.com Web Database Development
>=======================================================
they had the 25' flavor for $6 awhile back
sold out; so had to get raincheck
220 will use 1/2 the amperage; so interesting you can get away with a
smaller guage than if you used 110. but i figure 12ga. is the way to
go.
i think my delta contractor ts was wired with 14ga; so i had to do
some "adjusting" to use the same switch as the internal connectors
were designed for 14 (or maybe even 16) guage...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:07:16 -0600, "Tom" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>There have been a few discussions lately about making chords for 240V
>machines by changing the connectors on a heavy gauge 120V chord that can be
>purchased.
>
>Harbor Freight has a 50' 12AWG chord on sale for about $11 this week.
>Similar SJ cable is at least $0.60/ft at the Borg so this is a steal for
>the raw cable alone.
>
> If you need to go this route, be sure to do the math to determine your
>maximum length for the current requirement. Failure to do so could result in
>motor damage or fire hazard. Don't forget the length of wire in the wall.
>
>Tom
>
>
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:05:59 +0000, [email protected]
(Robert Bonomi) brought forth from the murky depths:
>No excuses. I had 'sense organ cluster all jammed up ventral orifice' -- as it
>was once put, in one of my favorite science-fiction stories. :)
I'm glad you got it straightened out.
Now, having researched your quote there, I find that
Keith Laumer is no Heinlein/Asimov/Clarke/Niven.
Methinks it's time for another Niven book. I haven't
finished his array yet.
http://www.baen.com/library/0671318578/0671318578__c_.htm
Retief!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ONLY HUMANITY'S TWO-FISTED
DIPLOMAT CAN SAVE U5 NOW !
"... into the chaotic Galactic political scene, the CDT emerged to
carry forward the ancient diplomatic tradition . . : Corps diplomats
displayed an encyclopedic grasp of the nuances of Extra-Terrestrial
mores asset against the labyrinthine socio-politico-economic Galactic
context..."
Official History of the Corps Diplomatique, AD 2940 NOT! What they
really had was Retief! Ignore the official versionin these pages is
the real story of how Retief tied the bad guys' eye-stalks in knots,
and made the Galaxy safe for humanity.
----------------------------------------------
CAUTION: Driver Legally B l o n d (e)
http://www.diversify.com Web Database Development
=======================================================
He's right, your calcs are off. You're thinking one dimension whereas you
need to work with two.
Example: a diameter of 25
Diameter = 2*Radius
25=2*Radius
Radius=12.5
Area=3.14*12.5*12.5
Area=490.625
Example: a diameter of 50
Diameter = 2*Radius
50=2*Radius
Radius=25
Area=3.14*25*25
Area=1962.5
Thus the area (capacity) of the double sized circle (cable) is 4 times the
size of the original (or 3 times larger)
The resistance in the doubled circle (cable) is 1/4 that of the smaller
circle, hence the 75% reduction in resistance
Not picking or insulting, it just got my math working! LOL
"Lewis Hartswick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robert Bonomi wrote:
> >
> > going up _three_ wire guages e.g. 14 to 11, _doubles_ the
cross-sectional
> > are of the wire, and, thus cuts the resistance _in_the_wire_, by 75%.
> > and the 'losses' in the wiring are 1/16th the size.
>
> Double the cross section area cuts the resistance in half. NOT by "75%.
> ...lew...
In article <[email protected]>,
T. <[email protected]> wrote:
>Wed, Jan 28, 2004, 3:07pm (EST-1) [email protected] (Tom) says:
>There have been a few discussions lately about making chords <snip>
>Harbor Freight has a 50' 12AWG chord on sale <snip>
>
> This cracked me up. But, at least you're consistent.
>
> If it goes over anyone's head, look up chord in the dictioary.
>
Once upon a time, I heard this joke about a guy who played music on his
firewood delivery.
Something about it "struck a cord".
In article <[email protected]>,
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Who was wrong, you or Lewis, I was affirming what Lewis said. His calc's
>seem right to me.
*I* was wrong. when I said 'doubling the cross-sectional *area*' cuts the
resistance to 1/4". It's only 1/2, as Lewis _correctly_ stated.
Your math was also accurate, but doubling the _area_ is not the same
as doubling the _diameter_.
>
>"And, a wire of '2X' _cross-sectional_area_ *is* identical to 2 parallel
>wires of '1X` cross-section."
>
>That statement doesn't seem right with basic geometry. You can put two 5"
>pizzas in a 10" pizza with area left over in the 10".
>
>Now I'm confusing myself! LOL
Again, "area", not 'diameter'. A pizza with an _area_ of, say 100 sq. in.,
will serve up exactly as many 10 sq. in. pieces as will 2 pizzas each with
an area of 50. sq. in.
>
>
>"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >He's right, your calcs are off. You're thinking one dimension whereas you
>> >need to work with two.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, you're wrong. Lewis was correct when he said _I_ was in error.
>>
>> I was already talking about cross-sectional _area_ of the wire, not
>diameter.
>>
>> It's a real simple situation, Two like-sized resistors in parallel have
>> 1/2 the resistance of either resistor, singly. And, a wire of '2X'
>_cross-
>> sectional_area_ *is* identical to 2 parallel wires of '1X` cross-section.
>>
>> No excuses. I had 'sense organ cluster all jammed up ventral orifice' --
>as it
>> was once put, in one of my favorite science-fiction stories. :)
>>
>> >
>> >Example: a diameter of 25
>> >
>> >Diameter = 2*Radius
>> >25=2*Radius
>> >Radius=12.5
>> >Area=3.14*12.5*12.5
>> >Area=490.625
>> >
>> >Example: a diameter of 50
>> >Diameter = 2*Radius
>> >50=2*Radius
>> >Radius=25
>> >Area=3.14*25*25
>> >Area=1962.5
>> >
>> >Thus the area (capacity) of the double sized circle (cable) is 4 times
>the
>> >size of the original (or 3 times larger)
>> >The resistance in the doubled circle (cable) is 1/4 that of the smaller
>> >circle, hence the 75% reduction in resistance
>> >
>> >Not picking or insulting, it just got my math working! LOL
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Lewis Hartswick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > going up _three_ wire guages e.g. 14 to 11, _doubles_ the
>> >cross-sectional
>> >> > are of the wire, and, thus cuts the resistance _in_the_wire_, by 75%.
>> >> > and the 'losses' in the wiring are 1/16th the size.
>> >>
>> >> Double the cross section area cuts the resistance in half. NOT by "75%.
>> >> ...lew...
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
>a side note..
>
>when i was wiring my ts to 220v i talked to a guy at lowes
>
>he said with all that "power" i should use at least 10 guage
10 ga is rated for 30A, regardless of voltage.
12 ga is rates for 20+.
it's never a "bad idea" to use a larger size wire,
going up _three_ wire guages e.g. 14 to 11, _doubles_ the cross-sectional
are of the wire, and, thus cuts the resistance _in_the_wire_, by 75%.
and the 'losses' in the wiring are 1/16th the size.
Going up two wire guages (e.g., from 12 to 10) reduces the power loss
in the wiring by more than 84%. Regardless of whether the wire is
loaded to near capacity, or not.
>
>as with a medical diagnosis - it's wise to get a 2nd opinion
>
>220v cuts the amperage in half.. thus there's no reason to wire with a
>heavier gauge when converting to 220. in fact, you could go smaller.
Yup. shifting from 120V to 240(V cuts the current load in half, so you
could, in theory, go _three_ wire guages smaller, while maintaining the
same 'current density' in the conductor. However, by doing so, you
_increase_ the "I2R" losses in the wiring, which is -not- a good thing.
At two wire sizes smaller, the wiring losses are essentially the same
as the original secnario.
Leaving the wire guage unchanged, and doubling the voltqe, results -- for
a given load -- in 1/4 the 'in the wiring' losses.
>but use the largest possible (12ga is so common.. and as the OP
>stated.. can be had cheaply) to reduce loss and allow longer runs
>
>but i find having coiled up cords is annoying.. better to just cut it
>to size..
>
>On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:07:16 -0600, "Tom" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>There have been a few discussions lately about making chords for 240V
>>machines by changing the connectors on a heavy gauge 120V chord that can be
>>purchased.
>>
>>Harbor Freight has a 50' 12AWG chord on sale for about $11 this week.
>>Similar SJ cable is at least $0.60/ft at the Borg so this is a steal for
>>the raw cable alone.
>>
>> If you need to go this route, be sure to do the math to determine your
>>maximum length for the current requirement. Failure to do so could result in
>>motor damage or fire hazard. Don't forget the length of wire in the wall.
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>
"T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wed, Jan 28, 2004, 3:07pm (EST-1) [email protected] (Tom) says:
> There have been a few discussions lately about making chords <snip>
> Harbor Freight has a 50' 12AWG chord on sale <snip>
>
> This cracked me up. But, at least you're consistent.
>
> If it goes over anyone's head, look up chord in the dictioary.
>
Hey, what can I say? I'm a musician. Call it a Freudian slip. I really meant
to say "12 AW-G MAJOR chord". If it was 16 gauge, it would be a MINOR
chord. <G>
Tom
(trumpet player & guitar hack)
Who was wrong, you or Lewis, I was affirming what Lewis said. His calc's
seem right to me.
"And, a wire of '2X' _cross-sectional_area_ *is* identical to 2 parallel
wires of '1X` cross-section."
That statement doesn't seem right with basic geometry. You can put two 5"
pizzas in a 10" pizza with area left over in the 10".
Now I'm confusing myself! LOL
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> >He's right, your calcs are off. You're thinking one dimension whereas you
> >need to work with two.
>
>
> Sorry, you're wrong. Lewis was correct when he said _I_ was in error.
>
> I was already talking about cross-sectional _area_ of the wire, not
diameter.
>
> It's a real simple situation, Two like-sized resistors in parallel have
> 1/2 the resistance of either resistor, singly. And, a wire of '2X'
_cross-
> sectional_area_ *is* identical to 2 parallel wires of '1X` cross-section.
>
> No excuses. I had 'sense organ cluster all jammed up ventral orifice' --
as it
> was once put, in one of my favorite science-fiction stories. :)
>
> >
> >Example: a diameter of 25
> >
> >Diameter = 2*Radius
> >25=2*Radius
> >Radius=12.5
> >Area=3.14*12.5*12.5
> >Area=490.625
> >
> >Example: a diameter of 50
> >Diameter = 2*Radius
> >50=2*Radius
> >Radius=25
> >Area=3.14*25*25
> >Area=1962.5
> >
> >Thus the area (capacity) of the double sized circle (cable) is 4 times
the
> >size of the original (or 3 times larger)
> >The resistance in the doubled circle (cable) is 1/4 that of the smaller
> >circle, hence the 75% reduction in resistance
> >
> >Not picking or insulting, it just got my math working! LOL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Lewis Hartswick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Robert Bonomi wrote:
> >> >
> >> > going up _three_ wire guages e.g. 14 to 11, _doubles_ the
> >cross-sectional
> >> > are of the wire, and, thus cuts the resistance _in_the_wire_, by 75%.
> >> > and the 'losses' in the wiring are 1/16th the size.
> >>
> >> Double the cross section area cuts the resistance in half. NOT by "75%.
> >> ...lew...
> >
> >
>
>
a side note..
when i was wiring my ts to 220v i talked to a guy at lowes
he said with all that "power" i should use at least 10 guage
as with a medical diagnosis - it's wise to get a 2nd opinion
220v cuts the amperage in half.. thus there's no reason to wire with a
heavier gauge when converting to 220. in fact, you could go smaller.
but use the largest possible (12ga is so common.. and as the OP
stated.. can be had cheaply) to reduce loss and allow longer runs
but i find having coiled up cords is annoying.. better to just cut it
to size..
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 15:07:16 -0600, "Tom" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>There have been a few discussions lately about making chords for 240V
>machines by changing the connectors on a heavy gauge 120V chord that can be
>purchased.
>
>Harbor Freight has a 50' 12AWG chord on sale for about $11 this week.
>Similar SJ cable is at least $0.60/ft at the Borg so this is a steal for
>the raw cable alone.
>
> If you need to go this route, be sure to do the math to determine your
>maximum length for the current requirement. Failure to do so could result in
>motor damage or fire hazard. Don't forget the length of wire in the wall.
>
>Tom
>
>
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:56:06 +0000, [email protected]
(Robert Bonomi) brought forth from the murky depths:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:05:59 +0000, [email protected]
>>(Robert Bonomi) brought forth from the murky depths:
>>
>>>No excuses. I had 'sense organ cluster all jammed up ventral orifice' -- as it
>>>was once put, in one of my favorite science-fiction stories. :)
>>
>>I'm glad you got it straightened out.
>>
>>Now, having researched your quote there, I find that
>>Keith Laumer is no Heinlein/Asimov/Clarke/Niven.
>
>True. But to one with exposure to politics and/or diplomatic circles,
>this particular set of stories is *excruciatingly* funny. The fact
>that Laumer was _in_ the diplomatic corps, and many of his characters
>are supposedly modeled on various 'real people' may well have something
>to do with it.
This confirms my penchant for all that is hermitlike.
Well, enjoy your books.
----------------------------------------------
CAUTION: Driver Legally B l o n d (e)
http://www.diversify.com Web Database Development
=======================================================