I guess you could call me an emerging neanderthal. I have all the power toys
but I have discovered a renewed interest in my hand tools.
I am beginning my next project, a traditional European style workbench. Once
I get the top glued up (approx 72" x 20") I will need to level it. The
problem is that I currently own only a No. 4 smooth plane and a No. 5 jack
plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
I will be purchasing a long plane in the near future and since I buy only
high quality tools this will be a considerable expense. I love the look and
feel of Clifton's bench planes and have decided to buy one. My question is
this; Is a No. 6 long enough to do a good job of leveling a bench top (and
maybe a table top or bed headboard sometime in the future) or should I spend
the extra money on a No. 7 jointer?
It seems to me that the No. 6 would be more utilitarian since the jointer
doesn't get a lot of use in most cases (I still use my power jointer for
most operations).
Any comments?
In article <[email protected]>,
"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote:
> As a side note, I regard the #5 to be a smoother even though it is called a
> jack plane. I don't know why a #6 is called a fore plane.
Cuz you use it 'fore t'other planes. And a jack-something is a short
something-else.
--
"Keep your ass behind you."
EJ wrote:
> I guess you could call me an emerging neanderthal. I have all the power toys
> but I have discovered a renewed interest in my hand tools.
> I am beginning my next project, a traditional European style workbench. Once
> I get the top glued up (approx 72" x 20") I will need to level it. The
> problem is that I currently own only a No. 4 smooth plane and a No. 5 jack
> plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
> I will be purchasing a long plane in the near future and since I buy only
> high quality tools this will be a considerable expense. I love the look and
> feel of Clifton's bench planes and have decided to buy one. My question is
> this; Is a No. 6 long enough to do a good job of leveling a bench top (and
> maybe a table top or bed headboard sometime in the future) or should I spend
> the extra money on a No. 7 jointer?
The questions are, "How flat do you require and How good is your
technique." When flattening, longer is better, but if you have good
technique 18",22" and 24" may not make THAT much difference. OTOH,
that's a 1/2' Difference between a #6 and a #8. I'd go to my #7 at
least, maybe my #8 depending on "How flat". Used Stanleys should cost
$100 tops for a #7 or #8 if you keep your eyes open. B worth having
anyway.
My .02
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
I have both a #6 Bailey and a 607 Bedrock (#7). I very seldom use the #6. I
use the 607 frequently.
I'm sure your #5 will flatten the workbench and the #6 certainly will. I'd
purchase the #7 though.
"EJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I guess you could call me an emerging neanderthal. I have all the power
toys
> but I have discovered a renewed interest in my hand tools.
> I am beginning my next project, a traditional European style workbench.
Once
> I get the top glued up (approx 72" x 20") I will need to level it. The
> problem is that I currently own only a No. 4 smooth plane and a No. 5 jack
> plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
> I will be purchasing a long plane in the near future and since I buy only
> high quality tools this will be a considerable expense. I love the look
and
> feel of Clifton's bench planes and have decided to buy one. My question is
> this; Is a No. 6 long enough to do a good job of leveling a bench top (and
> maybe a table top or bed headboard sometime in the future) or should I
spend
> the extra money on a No. 7 jointer?
> It seems to me that the No. 6 would be more utilitarian since the jointer
> doesn't get a lot of use in most cases (I still use my power jointer for
> most operations).
> Any comments?
>
>
I don't know about the Clifton, but a #6 Bailey has a 2 3/8" iron vs. a 2"
iron in a #5. I regard the #6 to be a shortened #7 rather than a longer #5.
I have found that the #6 is almost as good at joining boards a #7.
I agree on buying the #7 though. :-)
As a side note, I regard the #5 to be a smoother even though it is called a
jack plane. I don't know why a #6 is called a fore plane.
"John McCoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "EJ" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> However, the #6 is really just a slightly larger version of the
> #5 you already have. In my opinion, it would make more sense
> to jump up to the longer planes, the #7 or #8, before getting
> an intermediate sized plane.
>
> BTW, where you'll find yourself reaching for the long plane is
> when you find your 13" wide glueup won't fit thru your 12" wide
> planer... :-)
>
> John
Tom Watson wrote:
> (watson - who feels that the plane numbering system indicates the
> degree of difficulty encountered in using the plane. Thus, a numbah
> three is pretty easy to use. A numbah five is a little less easy to
> use, etc. When we get to the Stanley 55, we can clearly see that it
> must be impossible to use. DAMHIKT.)
This may just be the best explanation of the Stanley numbering system
that I've seen yet. <G> There are some exceptions to the rule, but that
just shows it's right.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
"EJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I guess you could call me an emerging neanderthal. I have all the power toys
> but I have discovered a renewed interest in my hand tools.
> I am beginning my next project, a traditional European style workbench. Once
> I get the top glued up (approx 72" x 20") I will need to level it. The
> problem is that I currently own only a No. 4 smooth plane and a No. 5 jack
> plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
The key to leveling a surface like a workbench is to employ the use of
winding sticks (you can google for many conversations on the
whats/whys/hows, I'm feeling lazy). The surface of a bench needs to
be flat, not necessarily perfect-for-glue-up, which is what I'm
generally shooting for when hitting something with a jointer plane
(like a #8 or it's smaller sibling, the #7 - large Bailey Pattern
bench planes, Jeff). My own preference is to have at it with a plain
old jack plane (#5, Keeter) on account of it's a bit lighter than a
#6-or-larger, with still plenty of bed length to plane the highs off
the surface and scoot over the valleys.
You will be amazed at how quickly/accurately you can get a bench top
flat just by eye and a set of winding sticks. You find the high spots
with your sticks (and also the areas where there is twist - the
twisted*up* part being the section you need to take down), mark them
with a pencil and then plane the pencil marks off. Lather, rinse,
repeat. It helps to be able to stand a good distance away from the
workpiece/sticks so you can really see what's going on. Adequate
lighting is a must here.
Once you've got it flat with a #5 and a set of winding sticks, you can
set about making it perfect with a jointer plane, if that's your bag.
The compelling reason to have a jointer plane is to joint edges dead
straight. I currently have no jointer plane, but get along (somewhat)
with a 3/4/5/6.
Yeah, there's nothing like taming an unruly board with a jack plane.
Hammuh
On 28 Jan 2004 15:31:21 -0800, [email protected] (The Hammuh)
scribbled:
I have a serious complaint about you. You could at least have the
courtesy to advise us when you change your moniker. My "watch" filter
got fooled by it. Luckily, TJW responded to your post, and I thought:
"How come I missed Paddy's post? Let me go check my filters. ... Yup,
O'deen is there under a number of different names, so what happened?"
I wasted a whole minute figuring out that you had a new address and
then adding you to my filters. That was highly inconsiderate of you.
Luigi
Note the new email address.
Please adjust your krillfiles (tmAD) accordingly
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
"EJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I guess you could call me an emerging neanderthal. I have all the power
toys
> but I have discovered a renewed interest in my hand tools.
> I am beginning my next project, a traditional European style workbench.
Once
> I get the top glued up (approx 72" x 20") I will need to level it. The
> problem is that I currently own only a No. 4 smooth plane and a No. 5 jack
> plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
> I will be purchasing a long plane in the near future and since I buy only
> high quality tools this will be a considerable expense. I love the look
and
> feel of Clifton's bench planes and have decided to buy one. My question is
> this; Is a No. 6 long enough to do a good job of leveling a bench top (and
> maybe a table top or bed headboard sometime in the future) or should I
spend
> the extra money on a No. 7 jointer?
> It seems to me that the No. 6 would be more utilitarian since the jointer
> doesn't get a lot of use in most cases (I still use my power jointer for
> most operations).
> Any comments?
>
>
It sounds like you are proficient with the use of planes, so I think that
you should be able to flatten the bench with the #6. Obviously for a piece
that size longer is better but I believe that skill trumps length any day.
When you are ready to invest in a jointer plane I think that you will be
surprised at the amount that you will use it.I have a LN #8 that I use a
lot. I also have a restored Stanley #7 that I don't use as much since I
purchased the #8. I don't find the size a problem. I also remember reading
that one of the big name woodworkers uses his jointer plane for just about
everything.
Good luck - Bob McBreen
"EJ" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I guess you could call me an emerging neanderthal. I have all the
> power toys but I have discovered a renewed interest in my hand tools.
> I am beginning my next project, a traditional European style
> workbench. Once I get the top glued up (approx 72" x 20") I will need
> to level it. The problem is that I currently own only a No. 4 smooth
> plane and a No. 5 jack plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
> I will be purchasing a long plane in the near future and since I buy
> only high quality tools this will be a considerable expense. I love
> the look and feel of Clifton's bench planes and have decided to buy
> one. My question is this; Is a No. 6 long enough to do a good job of
> leveling a bench top (and maybe a table top or bed headboard sometime
> in the future) or should I spend the extra money on a No. 7 jointer?
> It seems to me that the No. 6 would be more utilitarian since the
> jointer doesn't get a lot of use in most cases (I still use my power
> jointer for most operations).
> Any comments?
>
>
I bought a very clean, virtually unused '60's vintage Stanley #6 from
Patrick Leach, www.supertool.com, last summer. $135 plus shipping. It is
big enough to do what you want to do. I've built a couple of headboards,
four or five tables, two entertainment centers, a couple of storage chests,
and am in the middle of a mission-inspired blanket bench. Almost all of it
in red oak. The #6 gets a workout. I haven't decided to make room for a
powered jointer yet, and it may wait a while longer.
I'm not a collector, but these handplane things ARE growing in number
around here, and they all seem to get used pretty frequently...
Patriarch
"EJ" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I currently own only a No. 4 smooth
> plane and a No. 5 jack plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
> My question is this; Is a No. 6 long enough to do a good job of
> leveling a bench top (and maybe a table top or bed headboard sometime
> in the future)
The direct answer to your question is "yes".
However, the #6 is really just a slightly larger version of the
#5 you already have. In my opinion, it would make more sense
to jump up to the longer planes, the #7 or #8, before getting
an intermediate sized plane.
BTW, where you'll find yourself reaching for the long plane is
when you find your 13" wide glueup won't fit thru your 12" wide
planer... :-)
John
"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I don't know about the Clifton, but a #6 Bailey has a 2 3/8" iron vs.
> a 2" iron in a #5. I regard the #6 to be a shortened #7 rather than a
> longer #5.
Well, the width of the iron has a bearing on how fast the job gets
done, but I don't see it as having any effect on the quality of the
result - that's pretty much entirely based on the length of the
plane.
That said, I agree you can view the 6 as a short 7 or a long 5. My
only point was that given the choice between having a 5 & a 6, or
a 5 & a 7, it seemed to make more sense to skip the intermediate
size and choose the 5 & 7.
>
> As a side note, I regard the #5 to be a smoother even though it is
> called a jack plane. I don't know why a #6 is called a fore plane.
There was a lengthy arguement about that a year or so back, with
the conclusion that no-one knows for sure (the idea that it was
"fore" because it's used "before" something else was popular).
Patrick Leach calls them "devils planes", and proclaims them
useless.
John
[email protected] (The Hammuh) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> The key to leveling a surface
Totally changing the subject, but a while back you suggested using a
scraper to level the surface of shellac, after laying on the buildup
coats. It works well. I thank you.
John
Depends on what you call flat. A #7 will get it to a few thousands and a #6
a few more. You can get a good user Stanley #7 for under $100 and do it
right and then spend your big bucks on the #6 for general usage.
--
Alan Bierbaum
Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html
"EJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I guess you could call me an emerging neanderthal. I have all the power
toys
> but I have discovered a renewed interest in my hand tools.
> I am beginning my next project, a traditional European style workbench.
Once
> I get the top glued up (approx 72" x 20") I will need to level it. The
> problem is that I currently own only a No. 4 smooth plane and a No. 5 jack
> plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
> I will be purchasing a long plane in the near future and since I buy only
> high quality tools this will be a considerable expense. I love the look
and
> feel of Clifton's bench planes and have decided to buy one. My question is
> this; Is a No. 6 long enough to do a good job of leveling a bench top (and
> maybe a table top or bed headboard sometime in the future) or should I
spend
> the extra money on a No. 7 jointer?
> It seems to me that the No. 6 would be more utilitarian since the jointer
> doesn't get a lot of use in most cases (I still use my power jointer for
> most operations).
> Any comments?
>
>
Good price on the 7
Tony D
"Lawrence Wasserman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The #6 is long enough. It will just take more time & patience to level a
> 6 foot long top. Still, shouldn't be too bad a job. My comment is that
> for what a Clifton costs and for what a #6 or #7 is commonly used for,
> I would (and did) buy a used Stanley Bailey. I think I paid $25 for
> my #7 and the #6 was "thrown in" when I bought a used drill press
> several years ago. I did have to spend maybe 6 or 8 hours tuning the
> #7, and 1 or 2 on the #6.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
> [email protected]
>
> The compelling reason to have a jointer plane is to joint edges dead
> straight.
I know I'm being rude, but the definition of dead straight is apparently now
a circle with something like a 5-10 mile circumference, depending on the
thickness of shaving and the distance from the cutting edge to the farthest
end of the plane (or maybe just to the front of the plane, I have to think
about that one a bit). Still, it's a pretty big circle, so it would "seem"
truly flat. Flat enough to create an effective glue joint at any reasonable
length of board. Geez, I have too much time on my hands ;-)
So, you going to be at the show in Ontario this weekend?
Cheers,
Eric
On 28 Jan 2004 15:31:21 -0800, [email protected] (The Hammuh)
wrote:
>"EJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> I guess you could call me an emerging neanderthal. I have all the power toys
>> but I have discovered a renewed interest in my hand tools.
>> I am beginning my next project, a traditional European style workbench. Once
>> I get the top glued up (approx 72" x 20") I will need to level it. The
>> problem is that I currently own only a No. 4 smooth plane and a No. 5 jack
>> plane, both are Stanley Bailey style.
>
>The key to leveling a surface like a workbench is to employ the use of
>winding sticks (you can google for many conversations on the
>whats/whys/hows, I'm feeling lazy). The surface of a bench needs to
>be flat, not necessarily perfect-for-glue-up, which is what I'm
>generally shooting for when hitting something with a jointer plane
>(like a #8 or it's smaller sibling, the #7 - large Bailey Pattern
>bench planes, Jeff). My own preference is to have at it with a plain
>old jack plane (#5, Keeter) on account of it's a bit lighter than a
>#6-or-larger, with still plenty of bed length to plane the highs off
>the surface and scoot over the valleys.
>
>You will be amazed at how quickly/accurately you can get a bench top
>flat just by eye and a set of winding sticks. You find the high spots
>with your sticks (and also the areas where there is twist - the
>twisted*up* part being the section you need to take down), mark them
>with a pencil and then plane the pencil marks off. Lather, rinse,
>repeat. It helps to be able to stand a good distance away from the
>workpiece/sticks so you can really see what's going on. Adequate
>lighting is a must here.
>
>Once you've got it flat with a #5 and a set of winding sticks, you can
>set about making it perfect with a jointer plane, if that's your bag.
>The compelling reason to have a jointer plane is to joint edges dead
>straight. I currently have no jointer plane, but get along (somewhat)
>with a 3/4/5/6.
>
>Yeah, there's nothing like taming an unruly board with a jack plane.
>
>Hammuh
I watched my daughter's gymnastics class on Saturday. The guy who
runs the thing was demonstrating how to do a dismount from the rings.
He performed an extremely intricate series of movements prior to the
dismount that involved large and small motor skills, admirable upper
body strength, and a finely tuned sense of spatial relationships that
are possessed by about .001 percent of the population.
After watching this I decided that it would be best to take the glued
up slab to a commercial cabinet shop and have them run it through
their wide belt sander.
(watson - who feels that the plane numbering system indicates the
degree of difficulty encountered in using the plane. Thus, a numbah
three is pretty easy to use. A numbah five is a little less easy to
use, etc. When we get to the Stanley 55, we can clearly see that it
must be impossible to use. DAMHIKT.)
Your's in wooddorking.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
The #6 is long enough. It will just take more time & patience to level a
6 foot long top. Still, shouldn't be too bad a job. My comment is that
for what a Clifton costs and for what a #6 or #7 is commonly used for,
I would (and did) buy a used Stanley Bailey. I think I paid $25 for
my #7 and the #6 was "thrown in" when I bought a used drill press
several years ago. I did have to spend maybe 6 or 8 hours tuning the
#7, and 1 or 2 on the #6.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]