Dust Collector outside?

If venting to the outside it will also suck out all your heat.

Wendell
"danh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey all,
>
> Just wanted to bounce this off you. I just got a Dust Collector for my
> garage shop. Unfortunately the only place in the garage to fit it is on
the
> opposite side from where most of my tools are. So i started thinking I
> could build a small bump out on the side of my garage to house my DC.
then
> i could just punch through the wall and shorten my runs. I would also
quiet
> down the shop some.
>
> My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
> the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like
the
> DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
> moot point.
>
> danh
>
>

"danh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
> the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like
the
> DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
> moot point.
>
> danh
>
>

Your DC would not remove much air...
Lets think about that!
Typical two car garage, say 24 x 30 feet, 8 foot ceiling. Just a tad over
8,000 cubic feet of air inside. 1200 CFM dust collector. 8000cuft/1200 cfm =
6.67 minutes to change ALL the air in the shop. Not a problem unless you
plan on heating or air conditioning the shop!
Greg

"Nemo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> If an 80% efficient gas appliance is used,
> 97,200 Btuh / (100,000 Btu/CCF X (80%/100)) = 121,500 Btu of gas
> will be burned to produce 97,200 btu of heat.
> 121,500 Btu / 100,000 = 1.21 CCF X $.70/CCF = $.847
> $.847 is the hourly cost to replace the heat exhausted from one
> hour of operation.
>
> If an 100% efficent electric appliance is used.
> 97,200 Btuh / 3,412 btu/kWh = 28.48 kWh
> 28.48 kWh X $.09/kWh = $2.56
> $2.56 is the hourly cost to replace the heat exhausted from one
> hour of operation.
>
> Hope this helps

I agree with your numbers, but don't forget to add heat loss of the building
to start with! If it takes 50,000 BTU just to heat your building you will
need to add this to the numbers. Now if you do not have a large enough
furnace to over come the heat loss, its gonna be cold in your shop! Period!
Now all of a sudden you will need a 170,000 BTU gas furnace, or 150,000 BTU
electric to maintain the temps in the building. I doubt few here have that
large of heat source in their shop!
You mention the cost to replace the heated air removed by the dust
collector, sure it is not much, but if the furnace is not large enough, will
not keep up with the heat loss, and you will be cold.
You probably can get by with short bursts of use from your dust collector,
but with long usage you better wear your thermal underwear!
This is all easy to test. Just stick your dust collector out the door with a
hose to the inside, and run it for a while, then decide which way you want
to go!
Greg

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> Helps me. This summer I plan to do something like that by putting the DC
> into another shed off the garage. I'll put a filtered return vent hole in
> the wall to get some of the heat back.
> Ed
>
>

If you put in a filtered return, that is a differant story, no heat loss, no
problem!
Make is so you can block the return in the summer and just let it blow
outside, it will move some air through the shop if you don't have AC!
Greg

"Mike in Idaho" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Or as was mentioned in the archives: If you use fossil fuels for your
> water heater or furnace (I have natural gas in my garage), you would
> end up pulling the exhaust fumes into the garage because of the
> negative pressure. Not a good idea, so filtering it back into the
> garage in that scenario would be a must.
>
> Mike
>
>

Agreed. If you plan on putting the DC outside in the winter with gas or oil
heat, you need to leave a window or door open for makeup air for the DC.
Greg

"danh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> Am I missing something? Do most people turn on their DC and run it the
> entire time they are in the shop?
>
>

It depends on the job at hand. I jointed and planed a pile of boards the
other day. The DC ran for about two hours straight. I will also let it run
if I am doing multiple cuts that require little time in between.
Greg

It's great to have DC outside.
The best thing is that you get NO leakage of dust from the filter. In fact,
you can dispense with the filter and probably get quite a bit more flow in
the system.
Just run the DC when something is going on, to reduce overall air
replacement.
Wilson
"Gerald Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mine has always been in the shed behind the shop. I can't tell that the
> temperature drops or rises when it is in operation. The heater does not
> come on more. The sound is much less in the shop but louder outside for
> the neighbors.
>
> danh wrote:
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > Just wanted to bounce this off you. I just got a Dust Collector for my
> > garage shop. Unfortunately the only place in the garage to fit it is on
the
> > opposite side from where most of my tools are. So i started thinking I
> > could build a small bump out on the side of my garage to house my DC.
then
> > i could just punch through the wall and shorten my runs. I would also
quiet
> > down the shop some.
> >
> > My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out
to
> > the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like
the
> > DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be
a
> > moot point.
> >
> > danh
>
> --
>
> Gerald Ross
> Cochran, GA
> ...........................................
> Most people work just hard enough not
> to get fired and get paid just enough
> money not to quit.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Kinda depends on your locale. Mine's outside, but I'm in southern Arizona. In
the summer, I run a swamp cooler that puts out a lot of air, so I'm not sucking
out too much cool air to the desert. Tom
>danh wrote:

>Hey all,
>
>Just wanted to bounce this off you. I just got a Dust Collector for my
>garage shop. Unfortunately the only place in the garage to fit it is on the
>opposite side from where most of my tools are. So i started thinking I
>could build a small bump out on the side of my garage to house my DC. then
>i could just punch through the wall and shorten my runs. I would also quiet
>down the shop some.
>
>My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
>the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like the
>DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
>moot point.
>
>danh

Someday, it'll all be over....

Mine has always been in the shed behind the shop. I can't tell that the
temperature drops or rises when it is in operation. The heater does not
come on more. The sound is much less in the shop but louder outside for
the neighbors.

danh wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Just wanted to bounce this off you. I just got a Dust Collector for my
> garage shop. Unfortunately the only place in the garage to fit it is on the
> opposite side from where most of my tools are. So i started thinking I
> could build a small bump out on the side of my garage to house my DC. then
> i could just punch through the wall and shorten my runs. I would also quiet
> down the shop some.
>
> My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
> the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like the
> DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
> moot point.
>
> danh

--

Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
...........................................
Most people work just hard enough not
to get fired and get paid just enough
money not to quit.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Juergen Hannappel wrote:

> [email protected] (Nemo) writes:
>
> [...]
>
> > -One kWh of electricity contains 3,412 Btu's and cost $.09
> > (approximately)
>
> Do you get a big buyer price reduction? 25 (EURO)cents seems a much
> more likely number...
> --
> Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
> mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
> Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
> CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

My last electric bill for Standard Residential service (200A) was US $61.80
for
898 kwh or $0.0688/kwh.
Hard to say how the power is being produced, could be fossil fuel, nuclear,
or
Niagra Falls (hydro obviously).
I live in NE Ohio.
Other discussions have indicated that US$0.085/kwh is about average for the
US and
Canada.

ARM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> [email protected] (Nemo) writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
> > -One kWh of electricity contains 3,412 Btu's and cost $.09
> > (approximately)
>
> Do you get a big buyer price reduction? 25 (EURO)cents seems a much
> more likely number...
>

How much of your energy cost is taxes? How easy is it for energy
providers to build powerplants?

"danh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hey all,
>
> Just wanted to bounce this off you. I just got a Dust Collector for my
> garage shop. Unfortunately the only place in the garage to fit it is on the
> opposite side from where most of my tools are. So i started thinking I
> could build a small bump out on the side of my garage to house my DC. then
> i could just punch through the wall and shorten my runs. I would also quiet
> down the shop some.
>
> My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
> the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like the
> DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
> moot point.
>
> danh

I agree that it depends on where you live. Maybe you can make it work
both ways so on those nice days when you're not heating or cooling,
you can filter it to the outside.

Or as was mentioned in the archives: If you use fossil fuels for your
water heater or furnace (I have natural gas in my garage), you would
end up pulling the exhaust fumes into the garage because of the
negative pressure. Not a good idea, so filtering it back into the
garage in that scenario would be a must.

Mike

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Your DC would not remove much air...
> Lets think about that!
> Typical two car garage, say 24 x 30 feet, 8 foot ceiling. Just a tad over
> 8,000 cubic feet of air inside. 1200 CFM dust collector. 8000cuft/1200 cfm =
> 6.67 minutes to change ALL the air in the shop. Not a problem unless you
> plan on heating or air conditioning the shop!
> Greg

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 04:48:18 GMT, "danh"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hey all,
>
>Just wanted to bounce this off you. I just got a Dust Collector for my
>garage shop. Unfortunately the only place in the garage to fit it is on the
>opposite side from where most of my tools are. So i started thinking I
>could build a small bump out on the side of my garage to house my DC. then
>i could just punch through the wall and shorten my runs. I would also quiet
>down the shop some.
>
>My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
>the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like the
>DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
>moot point.
>
>danh
>

DC are made for moving a lot of air volume. If your shop not heated
nor cooled, then there's no need to return the air to the garage.

danh wrote:

> My DC turns on when I use a tool. And turns off when done. Since
> most cuts probably take probably less than 45sec, that isn't all that
> much air.
>
> Am I missing something? Do most people turn on their DC and run it
> the entire time they are in the shop?

I start my DC a few seconds before starting the tool and turn it off a few
seconds after turning off the tool. With the electricity in this 1960's
house, turning them on at the same time is likely to trip a breaker -- maybe
even on separate circuits. <g>

When I had a bench saw, I could run the shop vac and the saw on the same
circuit, and it didn't matter which was turned on first. With my 1.5 HP
Griz contractor saw, if the shop vac is turned on and on the same circuit,
pressing the switch on the contractor saw trips the breaker. That's why I
have an extension cord along the ceiling from the laundry room to the shop.
The TS gets its own 15A circuit from the laundry room when the washer is
unplugged.

Gotta rewire this house from the panel up.

-- Mark

Kind of reminds me of those "redneck"
Hey watch this" jokes.
Except the teller lives
"danh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey all,
>
> Just wanted to bounce this off you. I just got a Dust Collector for my
> garage shop. Unfortunately the only place in the garage to fit it is on
the
> opposite side from where most of my tools are. So i started thinking I
> could build a small bump out on the side of my garage to house my DC.
then
> i could just punch through the wall and shorten my runs. I would also
quiet
> down the shop some.
>
> My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
> the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like
the
> DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
> moot point.
>
> danh
>
>

Wow,

I had no idea this thread would generate so much traffic.

My basic premise for the fact that the DC would not suck that much air out
of the garage is this.

My DC is not like my air cleaner. The air cleaner gets plugged in and
basically runs runs runs

My DC turns on when I use a tool. And turns off when done. Since most
cuts probably take probably less than 45sec, that isn't all that much air.

Am I missing something? Do most people turn on their DC and run it the
entire time they are in the shop?

danh


"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "danh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out
to
> > the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like
> the
> > DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be
a
> > moot point.
> >
> > danh
> >
> >
>
> Your DC would not remove much air...
> Lets think about that!
> Typical two car garage, say 24 x 30 feet, 8 foot ceiling. Just a tad over
> 8,000 cubic feet of air inside. 1200 CFM dust collector. 8000cuft/1200 cfm
=
> 6.67 minutes to change ALL the air in the shop. Not a problem unless you
> plan on heating or air conditioning the shop!
> Greg
>

"Nemo" <[email protected]> wrote in message

>
> If an 80% efficient gas appliance is used,
> 97,200 Btuh / (100,000 Btu/CCF X (80%/100)) = 121,500 Btu of gas
> will be burned to produce 97,200 btu of heat.
> 121,500 Btu / 100,000 = 1.21 CCF X $.70/CCF = $.847
> $.847 is the hourly cost to replace the heat exhausted from one
> hour of operation.
>
> If an 100% efficent electric appliance is used.
> 97,200 Btuh / 3,412 btu/kWh = 28.48 kWh
> 28.48 kWh X $.09/kWh = $2.56
> $2.56 is the hourly cost to replace the heat exhausted from one
> hour of operation.
>
> Hope this helps

Helps me. This summer I plan to do something like that by putting the DC
into another shed off the garage. I'll put a filtered return vent hole in
the wall to get some of the heat back.
Ed

"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "danh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
> > the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like
> the
> > DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
> > moot point.
> >
> > danh
> >
> >
>
> Your DC would not remove much air...
> Lets think about that!
> Typical two car garage, say 24 x 30 feet, 8 foot ceiling. Just a tad over
> 8,000 cubic feet of air inside. 1200 CFM dust collector. 8000cuft/1200 cfm =
> 6.67 minutes to change ALL the air in the shop. Not a problem unless you
> plan on heating or air conditioning the shop!
> Greg


I've been sitting on the side lines following this thread. I thought
I would offer the following information to help determine the hourly
cost to heat the air exhausted by a dust collector.

Assumptions:
-Dust collector will exhaust approximately 1500 CFM (Based on 2 hp
Grizzly spec.)
-Outdoor air temperature is 10 degrees F, indoor air temperature is 70
degrees F.
-However the air is being replaced, i.e., by leakage in structure,
open window, etc. it will be heated to 70 dgrees by some heating
device.

-The average efficiency of a gas fired furnace is 80%
-A direct resistance electric furnace or electric baseboard is 100%
efficent.
-One CCF of gas contains 100,000 Btu's and cost $.70 (approximately)
-One kWh of electricity contains 3,412 Btu's and cost $.09
(approximately)

The formula to calculate the heat required to raise air temperature
is:
Btuh (Btu's/hour) = CFM x (indoor temp - outdoor temp) X 1.08
Therefore:
1500 cfm X (70 - 10) X 1.08 = 97,200 Btuh (The heat required
to raise 1,500 cfm of makeup air (10 degree outdoor air) to 70
degrees) (The 1.08 constant contains the conversion factors to convert
CFM into Btu's per hour.)

If an 80% efficient gas appliance is used,
97,200 Btuh / (100,000 Btu/CCF X (80%/100)) = 121,500 Btu of gas
will be burned to produce 97,200 btu of heat.
121,500 Btu / 100,000 = 1.21 CCF X $.70/CCF = $.847
$.847 is the hourly cost to replace the heat exhausted from one
hour of operation.

If an 100% efficent electric appliance is used.
97,200 Btuh / 3,412 btu/kWh = 28.48 kWh
28.48 kWh X $.09/kWh = $2.56
$2.56 is the hourly cost to replace the heat exhausted from one
hour of operation.

Hope this helps

> My only question is, would it be better to then just vent the bump out to
> the outside, or put a filtered return back into the garage? Seems like
the
> DC probably wouldn't suck that much air out of the garage so it would be a
> moot point.

Hopefully the DC is sucking boatloads of air ( > 600 CFM). I'd say have a
filtered return to the garage.

This is discussed somewhere on this site.
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
People put DCs in another room and couldn't open the door while the DC was
running because of the pressure difference. Putting a filter in the door
was the solution, IIRC.

-- Mark

There are many good things about Europe, but energy cost is not one of them!
My area is around $0.09.
Wilson
"Juergen Hannappel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Nemo) writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
> > -One kWh of electricity contains 3,412 Btu's and cost $.09
> > (approximately)
>
> Do you get a big buyer price reduction? 25 (EURO)cents seems a much
> more likely number...
> --
> Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
> mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
> Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
> CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

[email protected] (Nemo) writes:


[...]

> -One kWh of electricity contains 3,412 Btu's and cost $.09
> (approximately)

Do you get a big buyer price reduction? 25 (EURO)cents seems a much
more likely number...
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23