I recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage to a farm with a 25' x 30'
shop - man what a difference!
The electrical service has a 40Amp 3 prong outlet for a welder. I think this
is 220V single phase.
Q1) Will this circuit work for a 220V tablesaw?
Q2) If so, can I change the outlet to a standard 220 outlet and since it is
40A - run a large tablesaw and dust collector
off of the same circuit?
Thanks for the help,
Bucc
Yes, it will work just fine for your tablesaw
Just change the plug on the end of the tablesaw cord to match the
socket OR replace the socket with one that matches the tablesaw plug
Depending on the DC, you should be able to run both off a 40A circuit
John
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:12:06 GMT, "Bucc" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage to a farm with a 25' x 30'
>shop - man what a difference!
>The electrical service has a 40Amp 3 prong outlet for a welder. I think this
>is 220V single phase.
>
>Q1) Will this circuit work for a 220V tablesaw?
>Q2) If so, can I change the outlet to a standard 220 outlet and since it is
>40A - run a large tablesaw and dust collector
>off of the same circuit?
>
>Thanks for the help,
>Bucc
>
I read the on-topic ww posts with great interest and find that I learn alot.
However, when I read many of the OT post such as electrical installation,
motor sizing, plumbing, etc, I find myself ROTFLMAO.
I just hope that people can filter the good info from the just plain dumb
stuff and that no one gets hurt or worse.
--
Al Reid
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know
for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain
"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I can't imagine a 240V outlet with no neutral. Lots of devices have both
> 240 and 120V loads, like a clothes dryer. Even the welder probably had a
> fan. I'd put in some sort of box with three outlets! Is there a wall where
> you can put a small sub and some receptacles? There's enough power in that
> outlet to run a whole shop!
> BTW, why not get a welder? Just keep the welding away from the sawdust!
> Wilson
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Clarke Echols
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >First, check for a fourth ground (green or bare) wire in the cable
> > >feeding the welder receptacle. If it's available, I'd put in a
> sub-panel.
> > [snip]
> > >Most people are completely clueless about this topic,
> > [snip]
> >
> > Speaking of clueless, Clarke... he almost certainly already has the
> grounding
> > conductor (green or bare) in that 240V circuit. It's the neutral (white)
> > that's probably missing.
> >
> >
> > >Bucc wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage to a farm with a 25' x 30'
> > >> shop - man what a difference!
> > >> The electrical service has a 40Amp 3 prong outlet for a welder. I think
> this
> > >> is 220V single phase.
> > >>
> > >> Q1) Will this circuit work for a 220V tablesaw?
> > >> Q2) If so, can I change the outlet to a standard 220 outlet and since
> it is
> > >> 40A - run a large tablesaw and dust collector
> > >> off of the same circuit?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for the help,
> > >> Bucc
> >
> > --
> > Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
> >
> > How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for
> Miss America?
>
>
Doug,
That's interesting, since I found it here:
http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/1097
A google search shows many references indicating that the source was Mark Twain.
There was a similar quotation attributes to Will Rogers.
And there is this: "It ain't what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that ain't so." (Variously attributed to Mark
Twain, Josh Billings and Will Rogers.)
Just goes to show, you can't always believe what you read.
--
Al Reid
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know
for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
> [snip]
> > "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know
> > for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain
>
> And in the same vein -- you've mis-attributed the quotation. It's from "Josh
> Billings," a pseudonym of Henry Wheeler Shaw. [Reference: Bartlett's Familiar
> Quotations]
>
> --
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
In article <[email protected]>, Clarke Echols <[email protected]> wrote:
>First, check for a fourth ground (green or bare) wire in the cable
>feeding the welder receptacle. If it's available, I'd put in a sub-panel.
[snip]
>Most people are completely clueless about this topic,
[snip]
Speaking of clueless, Clarke... he almost certainly already has the grounding
conductor (green or bare) in that 240V circuit. It's the neutral (white)
that's probably missing.
>Bucc wrote:
>>
>> I recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage to a farm with a 25' x 30'
>> shop - man what a difference!
>> The electrical service has a 40Amp 3 prong outlet for a welder. I think this
>> is 220V single phase.
>>
>> Q1) Will this circuit work for a 220V tablesaw?
>> Q2) If so, can I change the outlet to a standard 220 outlet and since it is
>> 40A - run a large tablesaw and dust collector
>> off of the same circuit?
>>
>> Thanks for the help,
>> Bucc
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
First, check for a fourth ground (green or bare) wire in the cable
feeding the welder receptacle. If it's available, I'd put in a sub-panel.
Run the green or bare ground wire to the ground bus in the subpanel,
the white wire to the neutral bus, and DO NOT BOND the neutral to the
ground (case) in order to maintain the non-current-carrying safety
ground isolated from the neutral wire except where they connect in the
main panel upstream.
Next connect the two 120-volt wires (black and red, usually) to the
L1 and L2 lugs in the subpanel, then install a set of 240-volt, 20-amp
breakers for your saw, another for your dust collection system (you
are buying one of my kits plus blower, right? :-) After all,
it's the best thing out there; see
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/ClarkesKits.cfm for
details).
Or, if you prefer, you can run #10 wiring to your table saw as well as
the DC and use a single 40A 2-pole breaker if you have proper overload
protection.
Overload protection and proper switching on motors is a critically
important subject. I recommend you read my article detailing this
important subject at
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/ClarkeMotors.htm
Most people are completely clueless about this topic, and put themselves
and their shops and systems at great risk if they don't do it right. You
MUST have proper overload and grounding protection to prevent fire, injury
from electrocution, or even death.
Clarke
Bucc wrote:
>
> I recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage to a farm with a 25' x 30'
> shop - man what a difference!
> The electrical service has a 40Amp 3 prong outlet for a welder. I think this
> is 220V single phase.
>
> Q1) Will this circuit work for a 220V tablesaw?
> Q2) If so, can I change the outlet to a standard 220 outlet and since it is
> 40A - run a large tablesaw and dust collector
> off of the same circuit?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Bucc
"GeeDubb" wrote in message
> A1 yes but I'd change the breaker to 20 amp. If something were to happen
> with the saw motor the smaller rated breaker will hopefully kick off
before
> damaging the motor of your saw where the bigger breaker may not kick off
and
> you'll fry the motor.
Yabbut, the breaker is not there to protect the motor, it's there to protect
the insulation on the wiring. The motor should have its own thermal overload
protection.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/23/04
I can't imagine a 240V outlet with no neutral. Lots of devices have both
240 and 120V loads, like a clothes dryer. Even the welder probably had a
fan. I'd put in some sort of box with three outlets! Is there a wall where
you can put a small sub and some receptacles? There's enough power in that
outlet to run a whole shop!
BTW, why not get a welder? Just keep the welding away from the sawdust!
Wilson
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Clarke Echols
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >First, check for a fourth ground (green or bare) wire in the cable
> >feeding the welder receptacle. If it's available, I'd put in a
sub-panel.
> [snip]
> >Most people are completely clueless about this topic,
> [snip]
>
> Speaking of clueless, Clarke... he almost certainly already has the
grounding
> conductor (green or bare) in that 240V circuit. It's the neutral (white)
> that's probably missing.
>
>
> >Bucc wrote:
> >>
> >> I recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage to a farm with a 25' x 30'
> >> shop - man what a difference!
> >> The electrical service has a 40Amp 3 prong outlet for a welder. I think
this
> >> is 220V single phase.
> >>
> >> Q1) Will this circuit work for a 220V tablesaw?
> >> Q2) If so, can I change the outlet to a standard 220 outlet and since
it is
> >> 40A - run a large tablesaw and dust collector
> >> off of the same circuit?
> >>
> >> Thanks for the help,
> >> Bucc
>
> --
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for
Miss America?
In article <[email protected]>, "GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>A2 yes but you may have problems fitting the wire to the receptical
>terminals. You may have to pigtail the bigger wire with smaller wire to
>make the connection to the smaller rated 220 receptacle
>
A2A if you do this you *must* change to a breaker rated for the ampacity of
the smaller wires. E.g. if you pigtail with #10 wire, use a 30A breaker; with
#12 wire, use a 20A breaker; etc.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
In article <[email protected]>, "Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I can't imagine a 240V outlet with no neutral.
You must not have any 240V power tools in your shop. :-)
The original post specifically describes an outlet with *three* prongs.
If it's a 240V outlet, those prongs are line, line, and *ground* -- IOW there
is no neutral there. This is a _very_common_ situation.
>Lots of devices have both
>240 and 120V loads, like a clothes dryer.
And lots of 240V devices have *no* 120V loads, such as table saws, lathes,
sanders, shapers, radial arm saws, dust collectors, etc -- and any 240V outlet
supplying such a device doesn't need, and probably doesn't have, a neutral.
> Even the welder probably had a fan.
If it did, it was a 240V fan, because the outlet supplying the welder doesn't
have a neutral.
>I'd put in some sort of box with three outlets! Is there a wall where
>you can put a small sub and some receptacles? There's enough power in that
>outlet to run a whole shop!
40A at 240V is a bit thin IMO. Depends on what you want to power with it, I
guess, and how many people are in the shop at one time. That's probably OK for
a one-man shop, but it might not be if there might be several machines going
at once.
>BTW, why not get a welder? Just keep the welding away from the sawdust!
>Wilson
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, Clarke Echols
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >First, check for a fourth ground (green or bare) wire in the cable
>> >feeding the welder receptacle. If it's available, I'd put in a
>sub-panel.
>> [snip]
>> >Most people are completely clueless about this topic,
>> [snip]
>>
>> Speaking of clueless, Clarke... he almost certainly already has the
>grounding
>> conductor (green or bare) in that 240V circuit. It's the neutral (white)
>> that's probably missing.
>>
>>
>> >Bucc wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage to a farm with a 25' x 30'
>> >> shop - man what a difference!
>> >> The electrical service has a 40Amp 3 prong outlet for a welder. I think
>this
>> >> is 220V single phase.
>> >>
>> >> Q1) Will this circuit work for a 220V tablesaw?
>> >> Q2) If so, can I change the outlet to a standard 220 outlet and since
>it is
>> >> 40A - run a large tablesaw and dust collector
>> >> off of the same circuit?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the help,
>> >> Bucc
>>
>> --
>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>>
>> How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for
>Miss America?
>
>
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
Bucc wrote:
> I recently moved my shop from a 2 car garage to a farm with a 25' x
> 30' shop - man what a difference!
> The electrical service has a 40Amp 3 prong outlet for a welder. I
> think this is 220V single phase.
>
> Q1) Will this circuit work for a 220V tablesaw?
> Q2) If so, can I change the outlet to a standard 220 outlet and since
> it is 40A - run a large tablesaw and dust collector
> off of the same circuit?
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Bucc
A1 yes but I'd change the breaker to 20 amp. If something were to happen
with the saw motor the smaller rated breaker will hopefully kick off before
damaging the motor of your saw where the bigger breaker may not kick off and
you'll fry the motor.
A2 yes but you may have problems fitting the wire to the receptical
terminals. You may have to pigtail the bigger wire with smaller wire to
make the connection to the smaller rated 220 receptacle
Gary
Clarke Echols <[email protected]> wrote:
> First, check for a fourth ground (green or bare) wire in the cable
> feeding the welder receptacle.
Checking the color just gives you a clue. To be sure, get out a
voltmeter and see what's really on the wires. I've seen some pretty
scary shit when it comes to people using whatever wire they had handy
and to hell with the color code. Same with wiring up recepticles. Hot
green? It happens!
This seems most endemic in small industrial settings. In a big plant,
there's an electrical staff and enforcers to make sure only the
electricians touch any wires. In a small shop, there's usually somebody
around who knows just enough to be dangerous, and when something breaks,
as long as he can get the machine turning again, the boss thinks he's a
hero. Ditto for homeowners.
"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I can't imagine a 240V outlet with no neutral.
Sure there are. You see them all the time as air conditioner outlets,
and it's also what most 240V shop machines (Unisaw, for example) use.
> Lots of devices have both 240 and 120V loads, like a clothes dryer.
Sure. And those will use an outlet that supplies both. Check out
http://www.quail.com/nema.cfm
to see what's available.
In article <[email protected]>, "Al Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
> "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know
> for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain
And in the same vein -- you've mis-attributed the quotation. It's from "Josh
Billings," a pseudonym of Henry Wheeler Shaw. [Reference: Bartlett's Familiar
Quotations]
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?