When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
supposed to be used to remove health risks.
That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
way.
They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
cleanup.
Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
your current fad thinking.
All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
obsessing.
First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
purpose of having the thing in the first place.
And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
pristine, operating room condition at all times.
The fact o' the matter is that woodworking is a dusty, dirty business.
I defy you to find a commercial shop with more than one or two workers
that's clean, no matter how many Oneida's or Wood Mag cyclones they
have.
So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
collector.
But realize that it aint never gonna protect your health, and it aint
gonna do away with the need for you to own and use a broom once in a
while.
My two-cents. I'll read, but not respond to, any differing opinions.
I'll bet most of them will be at least 99% anal.
>Of the fine dust they collect. Some of the fine dust dosen't end up
>down the chute. On some tools, like table saws with a zero clearance
>insert, chop saws, and many routers, MOST of the dust is uncollected.
it does on mine. I have a overhead arm guard that I rigged with a 4" hose. the
only time sawdust gets out is when I trim the edge off a 2/5" wide board. with a
little effort I can stop that. with my scoop on my SCMS I have little if any
fine dust escape but when I do a trim cut with the blade one side of the wood at
45 degrees.
>Air cleaners and respirators do a much better job of protecting from
>this stuff.
air cleaners do very little. respirators work but I sure don't want to wear one
all day long. with some work and the right cyclone you can be almost dust free.
seldom are my boogers black anymore.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:59:24 -0500, LP <[email protected]> wrote:
>When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
>more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
>supposed to be used to remove health risks.
they can do it if setup right.
>They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
>that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
>And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
>mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
>cleanup.
depends on the machine. a bag system yes. a good cyclone with a .3 micron filter
will keep that fine dust out of the air.
>All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
>obsessing.
really?
>First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
>cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
>purpose of having the thing in the first place.
that's why you want a fine micron filter it lets more air pass.
>And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
>particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
>pristine, operating room condition at all times.
>
You can't get everything true. but with some effort you can get almost all of
it. it takes a great setup and sometimes machine modification.
but I now have very little sawdust (the really fine stuff) getting loose in my
shop. it took a lot of work and some money but my cyclone does a fantastic job.
>So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
>keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
>change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
>mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
>will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
>collector.
want to see the fine dust my system collects? sawdust so fine it floats like a
cloud of smoke that tropicals make. as far as i can tell no sawdust gets past my
filter.s very little gets past the dc intake on each machine. I would like that
part to be a bit better but it is the hardest part to accomplish. I don't want
to wear a mask all day long.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
"LP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
[ Blah blah blah ... dust collectors don't help your health ... blah blah blah ]
Fact is, my wife and I have fewer problems with our breathing
after time in the shop, now that we have a Oneida dust collector.
We used to get mildly ill from inhaling the wood dust, and now
we don't. Plus there's less cleanup to do, but that's a nit.
You only have to look at a ray of sunlight shing thrrough the
air in the shop to see the difference.
So should I beleive this anonymous USENET post,
or the undeniable evidence of our own first-hand exeprience ?
Gee, let me think ...
--
Dennis M. O'Connor [email protected]
LP wrote:
> Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
> is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
> your current fad thinking.
Sorry, I disagree. I worked below sea level. So what? Well, the job site
was Homestake Gold Mine, Lead, South Dakota, about 1 mile above sea level.
The Lead / Deadwood cemetaries are filled with miners who died in their 30's
to 50's because they filled their lungs with dust and died of silicosus.
Before we were allowed in the mine we had to go though 40 hours of classroom
training that emphasized safety. No reason to die young if you don't have
to.
IIRC, the cilia of the respitory system are responsible for getting junk out
of the lungs. But if the particles are too small, or too sharp and dig into
the lung tissue, the cilia can't do anything about it. The cilia are little
itsy-bitsy hairs that bring the lung-junk up to the back of your throat
where you can either swallow (especially if you're asleep) or hack and spit
it up. If the particles are too small for the cilia to grab, you slowly and
steadily loose square feet of lung surface area where the critical and
magical CO2 -- O2 exchange takes place.
(Again, IIRC) By the time you're 19 years old your lungs have all the
surface area they will ever have. Fill them with silica and asbestos
particles which "dig in" or small particles (from tobacco or wood dust) that
can't be removed by the cilia and your health will suffer because there
isn't enough usable lung surface are for CO2 - O2 exchange to service the O2
needs of the body. Individual cells of the body die -- heart cells, muscle
cells, lung cells, liver cells, brain cells -- and eventually *you* die.
I grew up on a farm/ranch in South Dakota. I butchered a lot of game and
farm animals. The lung of an animal is an amazing thing to feel in your
hand. It's about the same size of the liver, but compared to the liver it
weighs nothing. I've sat here 5 minutes trying to think of a common item a
lung feels like. I can't come up with anything exactly, but if you took
small-bubble bubble wrap, cut it so each little bubble is separate, put them
all in a ZipLock bag with KY jelly and cottage cheese in it as a filler,
that's kinda what it feels like.
I don't know if it's caused by silicosis and/or small particles, but there
are conditions where you can literally "drown" in the fluids in your lungs.
The lungs lose the capacity to exchange the minimum CO2 - O2 for sustaining
life, and the body says, "I'm outta here!"
IMO keeping the itsy-bitsy wood particles out of the lungs is a really good
idea. A reasonable investment in equipment to do it is well spent.
-- Mark
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:03:57 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> That's a side effect from the combination of poly and pineywood.
>> It causes a slow and painful death.
>Oh. Is it too late to quit? :)
It's NEVER too late to quit.
>> Yes, keep your nose hairs. The cilia drip (with snot in the nose
>Well, they used to. My cilia are probably all gone now.
What were you snortin', -lit- black powder?
>I didn't get the girl I was trying to impress when I started smoking these
>goddamn things either.
So quit those, too. It's not nearly as hard as you think when
you realize it's simply a decision you make. All your non-smoking
friends will love you for it. You won't smell lke a dirty ashtray
all the time any more. It's all up to you.
I gave the dentist my Lee Valley shopping money today. Unless Robin
changes his mind about the Christmas present, I won't be getting that
sweet little Veritas #93 knockoff. 3 fillings cost $403. <thud>
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
Mine has the standard bags and a cyclone. But it sits outside in the
shed, so what it does get stays got, it doesn't get back in the shop
air. I hold the hose right where I'm sanding when sanding by hand, and
all the cutting and sanding machines are hooked up to it. Not perfect
but close -- and quieter. I also have a free-standing filter setup with
a furnace fan pulling air through them. Not for health reasons exactly,
but to keep dust from settling on the shelves and tools.
LP wrote:
>
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
>
> That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> way.
>
> They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
> that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
> And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
> mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
> cleanup.
>
> Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
> is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
> your current fad thinking.
>
> All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
> obsessing.
>
> First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
> cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
> purpose of having the thing in the first place.
>
> And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
> particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
> pristine, operating room condition at all times.
>
> The fact o' the matter is that woodworking is a dusty, dirty business.
> I defy you to find a commercial shop with more than one or two workers
> that's clean, no matter how many Oneida's or Wood Mag cyclones they
> have.
>
> So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
> keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
> change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
> mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
> will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
> collector.
>
> But realize that it aint never gonna protect your health, and it aint
> gonna do away with the need for you to own and use a broom once in a
> while.
>
> My two-cents. I'll read, but not respond to, any differing opinions.
> I'll bet most of them will be at least 99% anal.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
...........................................
Luke . . . Luke . . . Use the mouse,
Luke! --Obi Wan Gates
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Considering all the crap well all breath everyday a few more particles
can't make that much difference to me growing to be a old fart, I worked
in a Autombile assembly plant for 31 years, just retired, the amount of
stuff floating about in that place was amazing, still here
though. all the best David
LP wrote:
>
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
>
> That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> way.
>
snip
Let's see, I've got a drum sander that, with out my "dust collector"
attached to it, can spout fine sawdust like Vesuvius for the older
crowd, Mount Saint Helen for the slightly less old crowd, volcano
for the kids. Without a 4 inch "dust collector" hose attached to
its dust hood everything - floor, walls, ceiling, all bench tops
all power tools etc. would be under a quarter of an inch of very
fine sawdust by day's end.
I've got an oscillating spindle sander that can generate a fair
amount of float in the air if not caught before escaping saw dust.
But hook my dust collector to its dusct collector port and very
little gets in the air - even with a nice back light to see
dust in.
I've got a 12 inch disk sander. It can generate sawdust at a
pretty good clip. Hook my dust collector to it and it doesn't.
I've got a Sand Hog belt sander that, in addition to creating
an ear splitting sound, generates a great deal of fine sawdust.
Hook my dust collector hose to it and very little gets into
the air.
I've got a couple of Dewalt orbiatl sanders that can crank out fine
sawdust. Hooked up to my dust collector they don't put out
much at all.
My "dust collector" has a garbage can lid separator and oversized
1 micron bags. It's also in it's own little closet with ply
skinned walls with sheetrock between the studs and solid core
door with weather stripping. The room vents to the outside
of the shop via a flapper valved exhaust port and gets air
through a screened flapper valved input port in the outer wall.
The soundd proofing helps becuase the closet also has my
oiled compressor in it.
So, from my experience, my dust collector does collect most
of the dust generated by things that make fine sawdust. For
the rest I've got another dust getter.
If I'm going to do a lot of sanding I'll use my home made ambient
air cleaner/downdraft sandding tabe /roll around outfeed table.
The furnace filters in it catch the big stuff and the spa
and truck filters catch the really fine stuff. And, it blows
enough air to sweep the floor when turned on to its highest
speed. Set it on low and leave it running for an hour and
almost anything still airborne gets caught.
Now big curlies - they're the problem. They'll fill the
separator can quickly then get to the dust collector
impeller and raise hell. I put a "Y" on the impeller
intake, one capped with a rubber cap. When crap gets to the
impeller I turn the unit off, unplug it and fish out
the escapees by hand. With all the power tools
on the market, a good push broom and a dust pan are still
necessary - a plastic snow shovel is even better.
charlie b
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:57 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>: So far as I know, it's the really small shit that's gonna kill you,
>
>Right.
>
>: and dust collectors don't do anything about that.
>
>Wrong.
>
My understanding is that the greatest hazards are posed by
particulates in the sub micron range and that filter media cannot
achieve this level of filtration (while still maintaining adequate
cfm rates) without having excessively large surface areas. It would
seem to me that the dust collector is not geared to handle the most
highly offensive particles and that these would more properly be dealt
with via an air purifier.
That said, once we go below a micron, we are verging on the area of
Angelology (which most find to be a discredited area of study) as we
are trying to make our shop air cleaner than the environment that
contains it.
Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
All wooddorkers should cultivate nose hairs ... twas nature's way of
protecting the hunter from those dusty tracks. Hmmmm ... maybe that's a
trick the hair transplant industry is missing? At least we'd all have
something so's you could tell us on sight.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
> So far as I know, it's the really small shit that's gonna kill you,
> and dust collectors don't do anything about that.
I agree with you that it should be called a chip collector and not a
dust collector. Its no wonder that we park our cars in the drive ways
and drive on park ways.
D.Martin
LP <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
>
> That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> way.
>
> They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
> that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
> And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
> mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
> cleanup.
>
> Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
> is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
> your current fad thinking.
>
> All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
> obsessing.
>
> First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
> cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
> purpose of having the thing in the first place.
>
> And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
> particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
> pristine, operating room condition at all times.
>
> The fact o' the matter is that woodworking is a dusty, dirty business.
> I defy you to find a commercial shop with more than one or two workers
> that's clean, no matter how many Oneida's or Wood Mag cyclones they
> have.
>
> So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
> keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
> change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
> mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
> will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
> collector.
>
> But realize that it aint never gonna protect your health, and it aint
> gonna do away with the need for you to own and use a broom once in a
> while.
>
> My two-cents. I'll read, but not respond to, any differing opinions.
> I'll bet most of them will be at least 99% anal.
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 23:05:46 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:42:45 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Well LP It sounds as if you are angry about all this and looking for an
>>argument.
>>Well truth be known I agree with you 1000%
>
>
>So do I. <G>
>
>
>
>Barry
Howdy,
My dust collector traps loads of dust...
But the stuff it traps (which includes what I would certainly call
"dust" in addition to larger stuff) is not the small stuff that is
really dangerous. For that, a respirator is essential IMO.
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 01:17:18 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Hrmph. So what, pray tell, would *you* use on a walking stick that's
>subjected to being poked into deep mud, creeks, and the like?
First, who needs a walking stick? They tie up your bodily movement.
I suppose I'd put Waterlox on it. It worked fine for my froe handle.
>stick on a rock. :( It still has the original poly finish, and it's fine
>after all this time, and all that abuse.
No chips, eh? Suuuuuure. Like my hammer. "I love that thing. I've
had it since I was 5. I've had to replace the handle several times
and replaced the head twice, but I sure love that old hammer."
>Live in the boonies, do you? My dentist is only 15 minutes away.
I tried a special one recommended by a friend. I should have
checked his prices first because he was 50% higher than the
other guy here in town and a looooooong way away. Sigh...
>I think if I ever need a root canal/crown, I'm going to just tell him to rip
>out the tooth and get it over with. Seems like *such* a PITA, and *such* a
>wad o' cash.
The crown was on an eye tooth which will someday support my dentures
or partials. I couldn't have it ripped out.
>The motivating factor that keeps me going back is the Pokemaster 2000
>Torture Scraper. Some kind of ultrasonic needle that pokes your gums
>30,000 times per second as it cleans, stimulating all your pain receptors
>and drowning you in a river of your own blood while the domiatrix^h^h^h
>hygienist at the helm admonishes you for being such a wuss, and repeats
>over and over how much she likes being on the receiving end of this
>particular torture device. I'd rather shove a rutabaga up my ass than go
>through that again.
That _would_ be cheaper, but...
>OTOH, I can tolerate him, more or less. I don't get along well with
>dentists as a general rule. I'm mildly claustrophobic, and everything
>about the whole process really fucks with me. I even had a bona fide panic
>attack once, and tore all that stuff out of my mouth in the middle of a
>procedure. That was with a guy with whom I'm comparatively comfortable.
Condolences on your attack. My last dentist had a DVD player and
movie goggles so I got to watch half a movie while he worked.
Maybe something like that would help you get out of that closed
space.
These guys offered me nitrous and I turned it down. I also
turned down the gumnumb. I have more pain from the injection
and recovery time than I do with a little bit of drilling.
Luckily, not much came near nerves this time. It was a piece
o' cake. I had sore gums but they heal in 2 days. I didn't have
an injection hole which stayed sore for a week, I didn't have
bite marks on my cheeks and tongue, and I didn't slobber on
myself for 5 hours and scream from the lidocaine wearing off.
I also didn't have the bit of fibrillation that came from the
injection. Me no likey dat. I'm quite happy with my choice.
>Yeah, now that you mention it, the last time I was there, I *did* notice how
>useful most of those bits would be in the shop. I was also thinking how if
>I just had a mirror, I could save myself a lot of torture by doing it
>myself at home.
True on both counts. HFT sells stainless dental picks, spatulas, and
scrapers for about $6 a set. I have 'em all.
BTW, I happen to adore the ultrasonic cleaner. It's much less
painful than the manual scraping. Of course, I have a lot less
tartar than I used to when I SMOKED. <subtle hint #2>
==========================================================
Save the + http://www.diversify.com
Endangered SKEETS! + Web Application Programming
==========================================================
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:20:53 GMT, Steve Knight
<[email protected]> wrote:
>if you want to see what that dust looks like it is about time I cleaned my
>filters (G) it is like a powder in the air it is like smoke.
That, as I understand things, is the very dangerous stuff...
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Well LP It sounds as if you are angry about all this and looking for an
argument.
Well truth be known I agree with you 1000%
But then again I am a pro and I fling and get covered in sawdust and chips
and everything else all day long.
Yes it is a dirty business, before leaving the shop i use an airhose to blow
off with that just gets the heavy crap off me before i go home and hit the
showers.
When we get the pollution out of the air we breath coming from all the
petro chemical emmisions pumped into the air then i will start worrying
about what the wood is going to do to me.
Geez LP what are you so angry about, Lighten up enjoy life,
George
"LP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
>
> That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> way.
>
> They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
> that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
> And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
> mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
> cleanup.
>
> Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
> is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
> your current fad thinking.
>
> All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
> obsessing.
>
> First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
> cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
> purpose of having the thing in the first place.
>
> And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
> particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
> pristine, operating room condition at all times.
>
> The fact o' the matter is that woodworking is a dusty, dirty business.
> I defy you to find a commercial shop with more than one or two workers
> that's clean, no matter how many Oneida's or Wood Mag cyclones they
> have.
>
> So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
> keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
> change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
> mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
> will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
> collector.
>
> But realize that it aint never gonna protect your health, and it aint
> gonna do away with the need for you to own and use a broom once in a
> while.
>
> My two-cents. I'll read, but not respond to, any differing opinions.
> I'll bet most of them will be at least 99% anal.
>
>
"Silvan" wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
>
> > All wooddorkers should cultivate nose hairs ... twas nature's way of
> > protecting the hunter from those dusty tracks.
> Do nose hairs help with that? My nose hairs have really started to run
amok
> in the last few years, and I have a forest of black curly hair poking out
> of my schnoz.
What the hell do you think they're there for?
> Does a perpetually clogged up, boogery nose help? At least some of the
dust
> is getting lodged somewhere other than my lungs.
That's not bad grooming, just good woodworking.
You know what's on the inside of a clean nose, right?
..... Fingerprints
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in news:raQCb.11742$JW3.7097
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
> And it's difficult to understand how some professionals can think that
> breathing 28 years of sawdust hasn't taken its toll on your health.
>
> Bob S.
>
And that isn't what he said. The original author said - don't expect the
"dust collector" to protect your health. If you want your health protected
then wear a respirator.
hadn't thought about that aspect.......
Bob S.
"Eric Ryder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Wood dust in my main source for fiber... working in the shop keeps me
> regular ;)
>
>
He does not need to cite *sources*. I have had 28 years of making a living
at furniture building to know that he is right. It amazes me at the
marketing crap hobbyist woodworkers sometimes fall for. BTW our "dust
collector" is 100 HP.
"Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can you point us to some recognized organization, reference material,
> printed articles or other material that supports your claim? Ohhhhh...but
> you did say you wouldn't respond so you don't have to back up any of that
> bullshit you posted... If it's anal to ask you to cite your sources - then
> so be it.
>
> Bob S.
>
>
> "LP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> > more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> > supposed to be used to remove health risks.
> >
> > That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> > way.
> >
> > They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
> > that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
> > And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
> > mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
> > cleanup.
> >
> > Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
> > is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
> > your current fad thinking.
> >
> > All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
> > obsessing.
> >
> > First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
> > cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
> > purpose of having the thing in the first place.
> >
> > And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
> > particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
> > pristine, operating room condition at all times.
> >
> > The fact o' the matter is that woodworking is a dusty, dirty business.
> > I defy you to find a commercial shop with more than one or two workers
> > that's clean, no matter how many Oneida's or Wood Mag cyclones they
> > have.
> >
> > So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
> > keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
> > change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
> > mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
> > will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
> > collector.
> >
> > But realize that it aint never gonna protect your health, and it aint
> > gonna do away with the need for you to own and use a broom once in a
> > while.
> >
> > My two-cents. I'll read, but not respond to, any differing opinions.
> > I'll bet most of them will be at least 99% anal.
> >
> >
>
>
"Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And it's difficult to understand how some professionals can think that
> breathing 28 years of sawdust hasn't taken its toll on your health.
>
> Bob S.
>
Wood dust in my main source for fiber... working in the shop keeps me
regular ;)
>
>
> "RichardR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > He does not need to cite *sources*. I have had 28 years of making a
> living
> > at furniture building to know that he is right. It amazes me at the
> > marketing crap hobbyist woodworkers sometimes fall for. BTW our "dust
> > collector" is 100 HP.
>
>
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
: So far as I know, it's the really small shit that's gonna kill you,
Right.
: and dust collectors don't do anything about that.
Wrong.
-- Andy Barss
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
: My understanding is that the greatest hazards are posed by
: particulates in the sub micron range and that filter media cannot
: achieve this level of filtration (while still maintaining adequate
: cfm rates) without having excessively large surface areas. It would
: seem to me that the dust collector is not geared to handle the most
: highly offensive particles and that these would more properly be dealt
: with via an air purifier.
The canister filters sold by e.g., Oneida are
rated to filter out 99.9% of particles in the
.2 micron to 2 micron range. This may not get
'em all, but that's a lot of fine particles that
don't go near one's lungs.
By 'air purifier', do you mean the box style that hangs from
the ceiling, or the positive-flow air filters like the 3M Airmate?
-- Andy Barss
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I think if I ever need a root canal/crown, I'm going to just tell him to
rip
> out the tooth and get it over with. Seems like *such* a PITA, and *such*
a
> wad o' cash.
haven't priced partials or plates yet, have you? it's lots cheaper in the
long run to root canal/crown than pull and have to have a partial. damhikt.
regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:10:19 -0500, Silvan <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Steve Knight wrote:
>
>> padouk makes way too much of the nasty dust. my setup works better then
>> the respirator did.
>
>You have a beard, don't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?
I shaved for awhile. but bloodwood dust still made it through. that stuff is so
fine. but a good cyclone is so much nicer.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:59:24 -0500, LP <[email protected]> wrote:
>When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
>more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
>supposed to be used to remove health risks.
It keeps the biggest of the crap off the floor and puts it somewhere I
can handle it better.
It keeps the cutter head clear on the planer, molder and shaper and
this helps out a lot.
Never thought of it as a health related item.
So far as I know, it's the really small shit that's gonna kill you,
and dust collectors don't do anything about that.
Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania 19428
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:12:07 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> First, who needs a walking stick? They tie up your bodily movement.
>
>Tie up your bodily movement? What are you, a flatlander? They keep you
>from skating down a rocky hill on your ass, that's what they do. :)
>
>> I suppose I'd put Waterlox on it. It worked fine for my froe handle.
>
>Isn't that poly? Yes, I *am* too lazy to go figure it out for myself.
HELL no. It's tung oil and varnish, silly savage.
>Depends. Might involve an embarrassing trip to the ER.
Verily!
>Mom likes the pokey thing too, but like I said, I'd rather shove a rutabaga
>up my ass, or maybe smack myself in the nuts with a good, stiff hammer than
>endure that again.
You need a better dentist/assistant, sir.
==========================================================
Save the + http://www.diversify.com
Endangered SKEETS! + Web Application Programming
==========================================================
Larry Jaques wrote:
>>Tie up your bodily movement? What are you, a flatlander? They keep you
>>from skating down a rocky hill on your ass, that's what they do. :)
Yeah, I see you don't have an acerbic comeback for *that* one.
>>Isn't that poly? Yes, I *am* too lazy to go figure it out for myself.
>
> HELL no. It's tung oil and varnish, silly savage.
Why would I want to varnish my tongue?
(I will say one thing. I just got done playing a game of chess with my boy,
using my original stained pineywood and poly box. (He won. The force is
strong in that one, Obi Wan.) This thing has been finished for months now,
and it *stinks*. Bleah. It smells like mineral spirits and chemical glop
even now. I guess shellac has really spoiled me.)
>>Mom likes the pokey thing too, but like I said, I'd rather shove a
>>rutabaga up my ass, or maybe smack myself in the nuts with a good, stiff
>>hammer than endure that again.
>
> You need a better dentist/assistant, sir.
I dunno, I think today's dentistry professionals are *all* people who
decided to enter the field after watching "Little Shop of Horrors."
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Larry Jaques wrote:
>>like those catapult kits I'm making for the Cub Scouts... Everything has
>>a place.
>
> Walking sticks which are covered in poly DESERVE to be stuck into
> foot-deep mud, sir. And make that 'horizontally', please.
Hrmph. So what, pray tell, would *you* use on a walking stick that's
subjected to being poked into deep mud, creeks, and the like?
Say what you will, that stick I spoke of elsewhere has more than a thousand
miles on it, has been poked into all manner of hostile environments
(everything sort of lava) and the only reason it's no longer in service is
because I swatted at a greenbrier vine too hard, missed it, and broke the
stick on a rock. :( It still has the original poly finish, and it's fine
after all this time, and all that abuse.
> Never happen. They'd lose votes if they stopped propping up the
> tobacco states while semi-banning them, taxing them, etc.
Votes, schmotes. They'd lose cigarette taxes...
> Insurance? What's that?
WordNet (r) 2.0 (August 2003) [wn]
insurance
n 1: promise of reimbursement in the case of loss; paid to people
or companies so concerned about hazards that they have
made prepayments to an insurance company
2: written contract or certificate of insurance; "you should
have read the small print on your policy" [syn: policy,
insurance policy]
3: protection against future loss [syn: indemnity]
> The crown was about a grand all told. Yesterday's fee was for 3 small
> bits of plastic composite for holy teeth. (See, I'm not _entirely_
> without religion.) The trips to Eugene were the hard part, several
> hours of travel up and down couple-thousand foot tall peaks each way,
> sucking up several tanks of gas each time.
Live in the boonies, do you? My dentist is only 15 minutes away.
I think if I ever need a root canal/crown, I'm going to just tell him to rip
out the tooth and get it over with. Seems like *such* a PITA, and *such* a
wad o' cash.
>>every rescheduled, rescheduled, rescheduled appointment this year, and
>>never got either of my cleanings.
>
> Ah, so you're that guy the songwriter was talking about when he said
> "...kick old Mr. green teeth in the knee...", eh?
Nah, they don't look too bad. I don't want to fall off the horse again
though. Before this last round, it had been about 15 years since my last
trip to a dentist.
The motivating factor that keeps me going back is the Pokemaster 2000
Torture Scraper. Some kind of ultrasonic needle that pokes your gums
30,000 times per second as it cleans, stimulating all your pain receptors
and drowning you in a river of your own blood while the domiatrix^h^h^h
hygienist at the helm admonishes you for being such a wuss, and repeats
over and over how much she likes being on the receiving end of this
particular torture device. I'd rather shove a rutabaga up my ass than go
through that again.
>>Why the hell can't dentists be open on Saturday anyway? I'm always off on
>>Saturday.
> Schedule for 7am. Then they (usually) can't make you wait for hours
I do.
> around and don't feel that ou have to stick with the dental assistant
> in your dentist's office. It can get really expensive missing several
> cleanings and inspections in a row as any decay grows. DAMHIKT. (2yrs)
I do need to call around and find someone else, I think. This is
ridiculous.
OTOH, I can tolerate him, more or less. I don't get along well with
dentists as a general rule. I'm mildly claustrophobic, and everything
about the whole process really fucks with me. I even had a bona fide panic
attack once, and tore all that stuff out of my mouth in the middle of a
procedure. That was with a guy with whom I'm comparatively comfortable.
> And I keep forgetting to ask the dentist if he has any old burrs.
> They work great for wood even if he doesn't think they're good for
> teeth (bone) any more. <--obww
Yeah, now that you mention it, the last time I was there, I *did* notice how
useful most of those bits would be in the shop. I was also thinking how if
I just had a mirror, I could save myself a lot of torture by doing it
myself at home.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:07:05 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Do nose hairs help with that? My nose hairs have really started to run amok
>in the last few years, and I have a forest of black curly hair poking out
>of my schnoz.
That's a side effect from the combination of poly and pineywood.
It causes a slow and painful death.
Yes, keep your nose hairs. The cilia drip (with snot in the nose
and something similar in the lungs) to catch the little airborne
particles much like dust filters. You "empty the cannister" by
using Kleenex.
---
- Sarcasm is just one more service we offer. -
http://diversify.com Web Applications
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:59:24 -0500, LP <[email protected]> wrote:
>When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
>more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
>supposed to be used to remove health risks.
<snip>
Being relatively new to this avocation, I was beginning to think I had
to go out and drop $1000 to keep the dust down, when all I really
wanted to do was not have to spend 30 minutes every day sweeping the
floor. It nice to hear an opposing point of view to recent posts. As
for me, I just open doors at both ends of the gar...shop, turn on a
big ass fan, hook the tools up to a shop vac and set it outside,
downwind. I'm betting I'm more likely to buy the farm from the
cigarettes I smoke, the fatty foods I eat, the alcohol I drink, the
alcohol the guy coming the other way just drank, the extra pounds I
carry, or from making a mistake in the small airplanes I like to fly.
Larry Jaques wrote:
>>Oh. Is it too late to quit? :)
>
> It's NEVER too late to quit.
Well, I'm still not quitting... Show me something better than poly to put
on walking sticks that regularly get poked into sucking, foot-deep mud.
Show me something better than pineywood for making cheapo throwaway stuff,
like those catapult kits I'm making for the Cub Scouts... Everything has a
place.
> So quit those, too. It's not nearly as hard as you think when
> you realize it's simply a decision you make. All your non-smoking
> friends will love you for it. You won't smell lke a dirty ashtray
> all the time any more. It's all up to you.
I don't have any friends, smoking or otherwise. I haven't had any in years.
I do need to quit sooner rather than later, but it sure is easy to keep
smoking. I guess I'm waiting for the feds to just ban the goddamn things
once and for all.
> I gave the dentist my Lee Valley shopping money today. Unless Robin
> changes his mind about the Christmas present, I won't be getting that
> sweet little Veritas #93 knockoff. 3 fillings cost $403. <thud>
$403? I'm not sure if I should be floored by that or not. I'm fortunate to
have good dental insurance through SWMBO's job. It covers quite a lot.
Reminds me, I need to re-schedule my cleaning. Having to schedule an
appointment 6-8 months in advance when you don't even know where you will
be two days from now sure is a bitch. I missed every appointment and every
rescheduled, rescheduled, rescheduled appointment this year, and never got
either of my cleanings.
Why the hell can't dentists be open on Saturday anyway? I'm always off on
Saturday.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Swingman wrote:
> That's not bad grooming, just good woodworking.
I'll tell SWMBO to return my nose hair trimmer thingie then. :)
> You know what's on the inside of a clean nose, right?
>
> ..... Fingerprints
Damn straight, but don't tell my boy that. He's trying really hard to live
down his nickname. Use your imagination.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:42:45 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Well LP It sounds as if you are angry about all this and looking for an
>argument.
>Well truth be known I agree with you 1000%
So do I. <G>
Barry
Exactly, all this crap about dust so small we can't even see it. It's just
like the scare tactics we hear about cigarette smoke - causes cancer, yeah
right. I worked with a guy that smoked at least 1-2 packs a day for over 40
years with no problem. Since it didn't kill him that's proof it's all just
bullshit made up by the nicotine patch/gum people. Another example is there
were a lot of guys working in dirty/dusty coal mines that never got black
lung disease so that was another fictitious story.
Just keep breathing that dust and I'm pretty sure you won't have any
problem. You're proof that it can't be a health problem since it hasn't
caused you any harm.
[yes, I'm being sarcastic]
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"LP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
>
> That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> way.
>
> They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
> that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
> And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
> mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
> cleanup.
>
> Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
> is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
> your current fad thinking.
>
> All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
> obsessing.
>
> First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
> cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
> purpose of having the thing in the first place.
>
> And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
> particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
> pristine, operating room condition at all times.
>
> The fact o' the matter is that woodworking is a dusty, dirty business.
> I defy you to find a commercial shop with more than one or two workers
> that's clean, no matter how many Oneida's or Wood Mag cyclones they
> have.
>
> So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
> keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
> change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
> mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
> will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
> collector.
>
> But realize that it aint never gonna protect your health, and it aint
> gonna do away with the need for you to own and use a broom once in a
> while.
>
> My two-cents. I'll read, but not respond to, any differing opinions.
> I'll bet most of them will be at least 99% anal.
>
>
Can you point us to some recognized organization, reference material,
printed articles or other material that supports your claim? Ohhhhh...but
you did say you wouldn't respond so you don't have to back up any of that
bullshit you posted... If it's anal to ask you to cite your sources - then
so be it.
Bob S.
"LP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
>
> That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> way.
>
> They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
> that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
> And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
> mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
> cleanup.
>
> Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
> is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
> your current fad thinking.
>
> All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
> obsessing.
>
> First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
> cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
> purpose of having the thing in the first place.
>
> And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
> particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
> pristine, operating room condition at all times.
>
> The fact o' the matter is that woodworking is a dusty, dirty business.
> I defy you to find a commercial shop with more than one or two workers
> that's clean, no matter how many Oneida's or Wood Mag cyclones they
> have.
>
> So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
> keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
> change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
> mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
> will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
> collector.
>
> But realize that it aint never gonna protect your health, and it aint
> gonna do away with the need for you to own and use a broom once in a
> while.
>
> My two-cents. I'll read, but not respond to, any differing opinions.
> I'll bet most of them will be at least 99% anal.
>
>
Larry Jaques wrote:
> First, who needs a walking stick? They tie up your bodily movement.
Tie up your bodily movement? What are you, a flatlander? They keep you
from skating down a rocky hill on your ass, that's what they do. :)
> I suppose I'd put Waterlox on it. It worked fine for my froe handle.
Isn't that poly? Yes, I *am* too lazy to go figure it out for myself.
>>stick on a rock. :( It still has the original poly finish, and it's fine
>>after all this time, and all that abuse.
>
> No chips, eh? Suuuuuure. Like my hammer. "I love that thing. I've
> had it since I was 5. I've had to replace the handle several times
> and replaced the head twice, but I sure love that old hammer."
A few chips, but mostly where I slipped and nicked it with a machete. The
finish down toward the bottom is perfectly sound. The stick broke at a
knot, and it had nothing to do with the finish.
> I tried a special one recommended by a friend. I should have
> checked his prices first because he was 50% higher than the
> other guy here in town and a looooooong way away. Sigh...
Hafta find a friend who has a cheaper dentist.
> The crown was on an eye tooth which will someday support my dentures
> or partials. I couldn't have it ripped out.
Sure, just tell everyone you're a vampire, and you had a fight with one of
your vampire enemies, and he tried to rip out your fangs. He got one of
them, but by Crongth you got him back but good before he could get the
other one.
>>particular torture device. I'd rather shove a rutabaga up my ass than go
>>through that again.
>
> That _would_ be cheaper, but...
Depends. Might involve an embarrassing trip to the ER.
> Condolences on your attack. My last dentist had a DVD player and
> movie goggles so I got to watch half a movie while he worked.
> Maybe something like that would help you get out of that closed
> space.
Yeah, actually, that would be cool. My old dentist at least had a CD
player. This guy has nothing. Doesn't even have any posters on the
ceiling. What I really hate is when the dentist/hygienist goes on about
"you seem so tense... why are you so tense?" poke poke poke.
> I also didn't have the bit of fibrillation that came from the
> injection. Me no likey dat. I'm quite happy with my choice.
Fibrillation? Gack.
> BTW, I happen to adore the ultrasonic cleaner. It's much less
> painful than the manual scraping. Of course, I have a lot less
> tartar than I used to when I SMOKED. <subtle hint #2>
The dentist says the same thing... He out-bitches my doctor 10:1 about
that.
Mom likes the pokey thing too, but like I said, I'd rather shove a rutabaga
up my ass, or maybe smack myself in the nuts with a good, stiff hammer than
endure that again.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Charles Spitzer wrote:
>> out the tooth and get it over with. Seems like *such* a PITA, and *such*
> a
>> wad o' cash.
>
> haven't priced partials or plates yet, have you? it's lots cheaper in the
> long run to root canal/crown than pull and have to have a partial.
> damhikt.
Well, depends on the tooth. The ones I have which are most likely to need
such treatment are all molars. I have one particularly nasty one that's
about 2/3 amalgam, and when that goes, I'm just going to get rid of it.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>My understanding is that the greatest hazards are posed by
>particulates in the sub micron range and that filter media cannot
>achieve this level of filtration (while still maintaining adequate
>cfm rates) without having excessively large surface areas. It would
>seem to me that the dust collector is not geared to handle the most
>highly offensive particles and that these would more properly be dealt
>with via an air purifier.
>
actually the smaller the micron the filter filters at the more air it lets
through. for the same area there is actually more airflow then a larger micron
filter.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Swingman wrote:
> All wooddorkers should cultivate nose hairs ... twas nature's way of
> protecting the hunter from those dusty tracks. Hmmmm ... maybe that's a
> trick the hair transplant industry is missing? At least we'd all have
> something so's you could tell us on sight.
Do nose hairs help with that? My nose hairs have really started to run amok
in the last few years, and I have a forest of black curly hair poking out
of my schnoz.
Does a perpetually clogged up, boogery nose help? At least some of the dust
is getting lodged somewhere other than my lungs.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:51:39 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>>Tie up your bodily movement? What are you, a flatlander? They keep you
>>>from skating down a rocky hill on your ass, that's what they do. :)
>
>Yeah, I see you don't have an acerbic comeback for *that* one.
Had I seen it before now, I probably would have. Mustamistit.
>Why would I want to varnish my tongue?
Wemembew, it's "tounge" hewe on the Weck.
>(I will say one thing. I just got done playing a game of chess with my boy,
>using my original stained pineywood and poly box. (He won. The force is
>strong in that one, Obi Wan.) This thing has been finished for months now,
>and it *stinks*. Bleah. It smells like mineral spirits and chemical glop
>even now. I guess shellac has really spoiled me.)
So REPENT, sinner!
>I dunno, I think today's dentistry professionals are *all* people who
>decided to enter the field after watching "Little Shop of Horrors."
I once had a physical therapist named "Mark". I nicknamed him
"Marquis" and once reminded him that my fist was within arm's
reach of his crotch should he decide to live up to his name too
thoroughly. We'd trade pain if he liked. Oddly enough, he never
hurt me (very much) again. ;)
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Save the + http://www.diversify.com
Endangered SKEETS! + Web Application Programming
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A Big "HOOO RAAAAA" For YOU I Approve of your absolute fact opinion
Hooo Raaa Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LP wrote:
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
>
> That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> way.
>
> They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
> that was the original purpose, and for the most part remains that way.
> And this chip collecton has nothing at all to do with health. It's
> mainly to get the big chunks out of the way and help a bit with
> cleanup.
>
> Forget all the bullshit the commercial companies put out. Their job
> is to sell machines and all the crap about health is just playing on
> your current fad thinking.
>
> All this obsessing about micron sizes and filtration is just that,
> obsessing.
>
> First you want to get a machine with a high CFM, and then you want to
> cap it off with a filter that wont let any air thru, defeating the
> purpose of having the thing in the first place.
>
> And it seems that too many people expect these things to capture every
> particle of dust thrown by any machine, and keep the shop in a clean,
> pristine, operating room condition at all times.
>
> The fact o' the matter is that woodworking is a dusty, dirty business.
> I defy you to find a commercial shop with more than one or two workers
> that's clean, no matter how many Oneida's or Wood Mag cyclones they
> have.
>
> So if your main concern is health, get a respirator. If it's just to
> keep some of the dust down, get one of those overhead air filters and
> change the filters once a month. If it's collecting up all those
> mountains of chips and sawdust that a planer, jointer and table saw
> will throw up, get a 'dust collector' and start calling it a chip
> collector.
>
> But realize that it aint never gonna protect your health, and it aint
> gonna do away with the need for you to own and use a broom once in a
> while.
>
> My two-cents. I'll read, but not respond to, any differing opinions.
> I'll bet most of them will be at least 99% anal.
>
>
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:23:29 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The canister filters sold by e.g., Oneida are
>rated to filter out 99.9% of particles in the
>.2 micron to 2 micron range. This may not get
>'em all, but that's a lot of fine particles that
>don't go near one's lungs.
Of the fine dust they collect. Some of the fine dust dosen't end up
down the chute. On some tools, like table saws with a zero clearance
insert, chop saws, and many routers, MOST of the dust is uncollected.
Air cleaners and respirators do a much better job of protecting from
this stuff.
Barry
And it's difficult to understand how some professionals can think that
breathing 28 years of sawdust hasn't taken its toll on your health.
Bob S.
"RichardR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> He does not need to cite *sources*. I have had 28 years of making a
living
> at furniture building to know that he is right. It amazes me at the
> marketing crap hobbyist woodworkers sometimes fall for. BTW our "dust
> collector" is 100 HP.
Steve Knight wrote:
> padouk makes way too much of the nasty dust. my setup works better then
> the respirator did.
You have a beard, don't you? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Respirators don't work worth a damn for me.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:48:53 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Well, I'm still not quitting... Show me something better than poly to put
>on walking sticks that regularly get poked into sucking, foot-deep mud.
>Show me something better than pineywood for making cheapo throwaway stuff,
>like those catapult kits I'm making for the Cub Scouts... Everything has a
>place.
Walking sticks which are covered in poly DESERVE to be stuck into
foot-deep mud, sir. And make that 'horizontally', please.
>I do need to quit sooner rather than later, but it sure is easy to keep
>smoking. I guess I'm waiting for the feds to just ban the goddamn things
>once and for all.
Never happen. They'd lose votes if they stopped propping up the
tobacco states while semi-banning them, taxing them, etc.
>$403? I'm not sure if I should be floored by that or not. I'm fortunate to
>have good dental insurance through SWMBO's job. It covers quite a lot.
Insurance? What's that?
The crown was about a grand all told. Yesterday's fee was for 3 small
bits of plastic composite for holy teeth. (See, I'm not _entirely_
without religion.) The trips to Eugene were the hard part, several
hours of travel up and down couple-thousand foot tall peaks each way,
sucking up several tanks of gas each time.
>Reminds me, I need to re-schedule my cleaning. Having to schedule an
>appointment 6-8 months in advance when you don't even know where you will
>be two days from now sure is a bitch. I missed every appointment and every
>rescheduled, rescheduled, rescheduled appointment this year, and never got
>either of my cleanings.
Ah, so you're that guy the songwriter was talking about when he said
"...kick old Mr. green teeth in the knee...", eh?
>Why the hell can't dentists be open on Saturday anyway? I'm always off on
>Saturday.
Schedule for 7am. Then they (usually) can't make you wait for hours
in the office waiting room behind 6 late clients and 4 drop-ins. BTW,
many dentists are open for cleanings on weekends and evenings. Check
around and don't feel that ou have to stick with the dental assistant
in your dentist's office. It can get really expensive missing several
cleanings and inspections in a row as any decay grows. DAMHIKT. (2yrs)
And I keep forgetting to ask the dentist if he has any old burrs.
They work great for wood even if he doesn't think they're good for
teeth (bone) any more. <--obww
--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
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http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:28:12 -0500, Kenneth <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:20:53 GMT, Steve Knight
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>if you want to see what that dust looks like it is about time I cleaned my
>>filters (G) it is like a powder in the air it is like smoke.
>
>That, as I understand things, is the very dangerous stuff...
yep tropicals are the worst at making it. padouk bloodwood are about the worst
of all. of course I use lots of padouk (G)
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> That's a side effect from the combination of poly and pineywood.
> It causes a slow and painful death.
Oh. Is it too late to quit? :)
> Yes, keep your nose hairs. The cilia drip (with snot in the nose
> and something similar in the lungs) to catch the little airborne
> particles much like dust filters. You "empty the cannister" by
> using Kleenex.
Well, they used to. My cilia are probably all gone now.
I didn't get the girl I was trying to impress when I started smoking these
goddamn things either.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:38:23 -0500, Ed <[email protected]> wrote:
>But the stuff it traps (which includes what I would certainly call
>"dust" in addition to larger stuff) is not the small stuff that is
>really dangerous. For that, a respirator is essential IMO.
if you want to see what that dust looks like it is about time I cleaned my
filters (G) it is like a powder in the air it is like smoke. I had the cap come
off my filter the other day and it was like a smoke cloud.
padouk makes way too much of the nasty dust. my setup works better then the
respirator did.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
LP <[email protected]> writes:
> When it comes to the subject of dust collectors I'm seeing more and
> more posts that allude to the fact that these things are somehow
> supposed to be used to remove health risks.
>
> That is not what a dust collector is for, and it will never work that
> way.
>
> They should, more appropriately, be called 'chip collectors' cause
In germany they are called "Spanabsaugung", which translates rather to
'chip collector'...
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
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