It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such. I mean... really? Do you really expect to
pay the low prices, have the huge inventory selections and someone to wait
on you who knows as much about all the products they carry as you may about
the few items you've come shopping for?
We've created the need for these supercenters out of our desire for a
convenient one-stop shopping location. Get out of our way, we know what we
need and how to use it. Oh? You're not going to hire people who know as
much as we do and pay them what they are worth and still keep these huge
selections and low prices?? You mean out of the thousands or hundreds of
thousands of items you carry you aren't going to guarantee that you will
diligently make sure each and every one of them are properly marked and
priced and located within easy reach? You mean you're not going to hire 150
professionally trained people and place an adequate number on each isle that
knows exactly what each item is used for in his/her department and also know
what each and every item is and where it's located in all the other
departments? You mean I might actually have to wait in line and be waited
on by someone who wasn't also trained and taught what each and every item is
and how it's used? Well I never.... how dare those self centered,
selfish,greedy corporate businesses act that way. That's exclusively OUR
right as a consumer.......give it to me cheap, quick and accurate...<g>
Come on....really? Think about this the next time you get frustrated at
some young kid who may be trying to find his way in life, albeit poorly, or
the next time some elderly person waits on you that doesn't have a clue but
is just trying to make ends meet and keep a job that provides medical
insurance, or that girl who is trying to keep this job because she keeps
losing jobs from all the time she has to take off to take care of her baby
ever since that dead beat husband of hers left and won't even stand up and
be a man and pay his measly court ordered child support which doesn't even
come close to the amount he spends on beer per week. Think about this the
next time you feel that you've been mistreated.... The laws of probability
are inevitable. Eventually we all make mistakes. Do you compensate everyone
when it's you making the mistake?
Bridger
The most irritating thing is that folks like that really don't care
nor realize that they are lacking in knowledge. The went thru the 2hr
orientation to their area(s) and that is all they need or want to
know. Anything else - like learning about the products they sell - is
above and beyond the call of duty.
I HAVE found knowledgeable employees in both of the local Borgs
(located right across the street from each other), but the ignorant
ones far outweigh the knowledgeable ones.
Caveat Emptor never was so true as it is at a Borg
John
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:46:16 -0700, Bridger <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:27:28 -0600, John Crea <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>It is EXTREMELY irritating to ask someone in one of the Borg's "Where
>>can I find the plastic laminate/formica" and be told "What's that??
>>Never heard of it. I don't think they make it any more." from one of
>>those nice employees.
>>
>>Took my business elsewhere (across the street) and bought the formica
>>off the shelf there
>>
>>John
>
>
>
>
>I try very hard not to go to the borg. found myself there a while back
>and needing to buy some forstner bits I thought I'd see what they had
>and at what price. went to the tool corral and asked the tool guy for
>a forstner bit. he took me over to the display of screwdriver insert
>tips and said "which one was it you wanted?" I proceeded to try to
>explain what it was that I was looking for. he seemed almost incapable
>of comprehending what is a forstner bit. finally I found it myself.
>when I showed it to the guy, he was completely surprised- he had
>obviously never seen one before, had no idea which end of it goes in
>the drill or why a person would want such a thing. I started to
>explain to him, but stopped when I realized it would take all day to
>get any information into his head. I got the price, which was
>ridiculously high- for what they wanted for one low end chinese 1-1/2"
>or so bit I bought a set elsewhere (of better quality, but still
>import bits)
>
>the guy's incompetence as a tool salesman was astounding. he really
>had no clue.
>
> Bridger
In article <[email protected]>, mel
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Do you really expect to
> pay the low prices, have the huge inventory selections and someone to wait
> on you who knows as much about all the products they carry as you may about
> the few items you've come shopping for?
When they advertise their services as providing all the above, do we
not have the right to hold them to that standard?
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
In article <[email protected]>, mel
<[email protected]> wrote:
> that's like saying you expect the burgers to look like those on the
> commercials
No, it's demanding that companies live up to their publicly advertised
commitments.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Dave Balderstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:190120042237090494%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, mel
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > that's like saying you expect the burgers to look like those on the
> > commercials
>
> No, it's demanding that companies live up to their publicly advertised
> commitments.
In an ideal world, they would. But in this one, they won't. Remember that
Ford commercial from 2-3 years ago that showed a Ford pickup uprooting a
tree that must have been 24" in diameter, roots and all? Sure it's
exaggeration (fantasy?) for effect, but you and I and each of us can name
dozens more examples of hype. We see and hear them every day. HD's
advertising is pure hype.
Bob
In article <[email protected]>, Bob Schmall
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Remember that
> Ford commercial from 2-3 years ago that showed a Ford pickup uprooting a
> tree that must have been 24" in diameter, roots and all?
Nope. I haven't watched much TV for the last 3 or 4 years.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
In article <[email protected]>, Swingman
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Walked out of the Orange BORG this weekend because I couldn't get an answer
> to a simple question: "Is the plywood in this stack exterior grade?"
So you held them to their public commitment via their advertising, and
when they didn't meet it you took your business elsewhere.
Exactly right.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:27:12 GMT, Mark <[email protected]>
wrote:
>And they probably have 10 or more years experience with
>bicycles. I doubt your going to find a 20 year old with a
>decade of experience in construction*, let alone one willing
>to work for what the BORG pays.
You're completely missing the point.
There's a lot to bike sales, most of it involves parts and
accessories, not complete bikes. Manufacturers like Shimano are
constantly changing specs and the components of 3 years ago may not be
compatible with the latest and the greatest. These kids knew NOTHING
of these issues before we hired them, they're smart kids with good
personalities who happen to ride bikes.
What makes good customer service is the ability to greet and listen to
the customer, find out what they really need, and if you're not sure
you can help, get prompt assistance from someone else, and keep the
customer in the loop all along.
What I see in BORGs are the backsides of employees reversing direction
as I try to make eye contact with them. I do NOT expect a BORG
employee to know the NEC, building codes, stain / topcoat
compatibility, or how to paint a swirled ceiling without a drop cloth.
I DO expect them to tell me approximately where in the store the item
I'm looking for is located. Just like I don't ask the grocery clerk
how too make a good chillier. <G>
Barry
A satisfied customer is one who feels he got it cheaper. Read the gloats,
read the complaints. Even this thread is about "why can't I get a home
repair guru for the buck and a half profit I give HD every week.
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Pogo
"C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Where does one go for good value these days? Seems as though everything
> is geared around profit and not customer satisfaction.
"mel" <[email protected]> writes:
>It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
>knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
>Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such. I mean... really? Do you really expect to
>pay the low prices, have the huge inventory selections and someone to wait
>on you who knows as much about all the products they carry as you may about
>the few items you've come shopping for?
I worked at CompUSA years ago. They carried like 5,000 items.
People used to get upset all the time that we didn't know the exact
technical specs and how every item in the store worked. I'm not sure how
anyone thought we could possibly know everything about 5,000 highly
technical items.
I'm sure these same people didn't walk into Wal-Mart or Target and expect
the clerk on the floor to know all the details on all 100,000 items the
store might carry. (Of course, good luck finding a clerk at Wal-Mart or
Target.)
Brian Elfert
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 03:12:35 GMT, "ATP" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>There are some pretty good people at Home Depot- not every employee, but
>they usually have a few retired/semi-retired types who are actually pretty
>decent.
Believe it or not, you can provide good customer service at any age.
<G> We've got two EXCELLENT 20 year olds in the bike shop They're
rare, but they do exist..
I think the atmosphere of a BORG eventually gets to all of their floor
employees. How many do you see smiling? How many avoid you as you
walk down the aisle towards them? More money isn't always the answer
either. Check out the HD web site employment info. Managers work a
minimum 55 hour week. I can't imagine spending 55 hours a week or
more in one of those places.
Imagine dealing all day long with Johnny or Jane DIY'er, demanding to
know why a Square-D breaker can't fit in a GE box? And they need to
know it RIGHT NOW, because they've got stuff to do! This is, of
course, while they carry they Dunk-a-chino in one hand and relay the
info via Nextel to their spouse? I can barely stand the customers in
BORGs, and I'm rarely there! <G>
Barry
George wrote:
> A satisfied customer is one who feels he got it cheaper. Read the
> gloats, read the complaints. Even this thread is about "why can't I
> get a home repair guru for the buck and a half profit I give HD every
> week.
>
> "We have met the enemy and he is us."
>
> Pogo
>
I'm just happy we are no longer at the mercy of smug, know it all hardware
store owners or lumber yards where it takes half a day to get a few sticks
of wood out the door, AND you get raped on the price. Think back thirty
years, the good old days weren't all that good.
Dave Balderstone <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<190120042237090494%[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, mel
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > that's like saying you expect the burgers to look like those on the
> > commercials
>
> No, it's demanding that companies live up to their publicly advertised
> commitments.
But there's some common sense that needs to be thrown in as well. If
I bought every golf aid out there claiming to add 5, 10, or 20 yards
to my drive, I'd hit the ball 500 yards.
> It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
> knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
> Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such.
All I ask is that there's a few people on the floor to help me FIND an
item that I know what I want. I'm certainly not going to ask advice
from them. Just tell me where it is. I don't think that's asking
alot, since it was the same people that put the product on the shelves
in the first place.
> You mean out of the thousands or hundreds of
> thousands of items you carry you aren't going to guarantee that you will
> diligently make sure each and every one of them are properly marked and
> priced and located within easy reach?
That's not asking much. This ain't brain surgery.
> You mean you're not going to hire 150
> professionally trained people and place an adequate number on each isle that
> knows exactly what each item is used for in his/her department and also know
> what each and every item is and where it's located in all the other
> departments?
They should know where it is. They work among this stuff 8 hours a
day. Even I know where to find most items at my local Borg, and in
the year I've lived in my house, I've probably spent 30 hours in the
store.
> Think about this the
> next time you feel that you've been mistreated.... The laws of probability
> are inevitable. Eventually we all make mistakes. Do you compensate everyone
> when it's you making the mistake?
You're trying to justify bad behavoir with more bad behavoir. I don't
accept that.
Are you a borg worker? Sounds like it.
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:27:28 -0600, John Crea <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>It is EXTREMELY irritating to ask someone in one of the Borg's "Where
>can I find the plastic laminate/formica" and be told "What's that??
>Never heard of it. I don't think they make it any more." from one of
>those nice employees.
>
>Took my business elsewhere (across the street) and bought the formica
>off the shelf there
>
>John
I try very hard not to go to the borg. found myself there a while back
and needing to buy some forstner bits I thought I'd see what they had
and at what price. went to the tool corral and asked the tool guy for
a forstner bit. he took me over to the display of screwdriver insert
tips and said "which one was it you wanted?" I proceeded to try to
explain what it was that I was looking for. he seemed almost incapable
of comprehending what is a forstner bit. finally I found it myself.
when I showed it to the guy, he was completely surprised- he had
obviously never seen one before, had no idea which end of it goes in
the drill or why a person would want such a thing. I started to
explain to him, but stopped when I realized it would take all day to
get any information into his head. I got the price, which was
ridiculously high- for what they wanted for one low end chinese 1-1/2"
or so bit I bought a set elsewhere (of better quality, but still
import bits)
the guy's incompetence as a tool salesman was astounding. he really
had no clue.
Bridger
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:00:13 GMT, "Bob Schmall" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>We see and hear them every day. HD's
>advertising is pure hype.
Known in legalese as "puffery".
Barry
mel wrote:
> It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
> knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
> Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such. I mean... really? Do you really
> expect to pay the low prices, have the huge inventory selections and
> someone to wait on you who knows as much about all the products they
> carry as you may about the few items you've come shopping for?
>
There are some pretty good people at Home Depot- not every employee, but
they usually have a few retired/semi-retired types who are actually pretty
decent.
mel wrote:
<snip>
>
> We've created the need for these supercenters out of our desire for a
> convenient one-stop shopping location.
I believe they (the borgs) are the ones who created the need. Exclusive
purchasing rights and other dealings that their money can buy make it
impossible for the mom&pop's to exist. Cut off the enemy's supply line
and he will die. Then there is no choice but to deal with the new
regime on their terms.
<snip>
> be a man and pay his measly court ordered child support which doesn't even
> come close to the amount he spends on beer per week. Think about this the
> next time you feel that you've been mistreated.... The laws of probability
> are inevitable. Eventually we all make mistakes. Do you compensate everyone
> when it's you making the mistake?
>
At some point in time, I hope, folks will once again be responsible for
their own actions. They'll no longer be able to blame their lot in life
on somebody or something else. It's come to the point that every
set-back or failure is not in the hands of the individual, it's somebody
else's fault. I'm so fed up with the "Look at me...I'm a victim and need
special treatment" craze that's sweeping the nation. What a slap in the
face that is to every living creature that has worked their own way
through their own crisis.
We all make mistakes. Most of us learn from them. There's more
incentive to learn when you're held accountable. Excuses just pass the
accountability on to someone else.
That said, I refuse to be a victim when forced to go to the borg. I
don't expect the folks there to do much more than take my money and help
me load the big stuff. Sometimes you gotta raise a little stink to make
even that happen.
--
Larry G. Laminger
http://woodworks.laminger.com
"Bridger" wrote in message
> the guy's incompetence as a tool salesman was astounding. he really
> had no clue.
Walked out of the Orange BORG this weekend because I couldn't get an answer
to a simple question: "Is the plywood in this stack exterior grade?"
You couldn't decipher the markings on the stuff, and NO ONE could answer the
question ... that is, when I finally found someone who was actually willing
to make eye contact with a customer as they walked from one place to another
as if their life depended upon wherever it was they were headed.
Went to Lowe's, where the plywood was marked on both the bin AND the
plywood.
Around here, Lowe's is cleaner, well lit, a much nicer atmosphere, and the
average employee's IQ is about 10 points higher ... but still a long way
from the family run hardware store down the street, but which doesn't carry
plywood, or the local lumberyard, which is not open on Saturday afternoons.
Apparently we sometimes we expect too much.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/16/04
you stated:
You're trying to justify bad behavior with more bad behavior. I don't
accept that.
I reply:
I think you've misread me. My point was expecting anything more than you
get from the Borg and trying to enact retribution on a store such as the
Borg and mistreat it's employees because you don't feel they are up to your
standards of knowledge is the bad behavior that should be avoided. I never
stated that any behavior other than treating people with respect should be
the answer to it.
you asked:
Are you a borg worker? Sounds like it.
my answer:
Quite the contrary. I work for an independent family owned lumber company
that caters to the professional home builder and we are quite successful at
it. Our clientele recognizes that the level of services we provide are in
fact worth something to their bottom line. Sure you can buy studs at HD or
Lowes cheaper but we deliver, we do material take-offs, pick up returns,
watch and help run the jobsites. etc....The fact is we provide the level of
service that people bitch about not getting at these DIY centers. That is
my point....that was the purpose of this thread. As the adage goes you can
have price, service and quality....pick two...all three are impossible.
"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
> knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
> Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such. I mean... really? Do you really expect
to
> pay the low prices, have the huge inventory selections and someone to wait
> on you who knows as much about all the products they carry as you may
about
> the few items you've come shopping for?
When I go to a place like that, I don't ask questions. I do expect low
prices, items they regularly carry are in stock, and politeness and respect
from the staff. I don't expect anyone in those places to be able to help me
with technical questions. If there are people there who can actually help
me, I either haven't asked the right questions or haven't met them yet.
If I need expert advice, I will go to a place that has the experts.
If you advertise expert advice, you better be able to provide it. In that
case, places like Borgs are presenting false advertising. Just because the
salesman may know a little bit more about wall switches than the average
homeowner does not make him an expert in the electrical department. I've
helped other customers in stores when I overhear the sales drone giving them
some obviously wrong advice.
Bottom line? Yes I expect them to offer all that and everything else they
advertise or DON'T ADVERTISE IT. Its that simple. What if I went out
tomorrow and started a huge advertising campaign promoting my ability to
custom build any kitchen, complete in only 72 hours installed. I figure what
the hell, I'll tell people that to get their attention. Then when folks
started complaining I simply stand up and state "Oh come on now people you
didn't really expect me to be able to come through on that did you?" This is
ridiculous. And your sad tales of woe about the kid starting out in life and
the elderly person working just for the medical insurance? You forgot to
mention the poor ol broke cabinet maker who's losing his ass because he
spends all his time at the damn store trying to educate the employees there
so he can sleep well at night knowing he didn't take advantage of one of
these poor individuals. Totally ridiculous.
Jim
"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> believing in advertising is a whole nuther topic...lol
>
>
thank you Bob.....now if you don't mind I'm going to get me some of that
beer so those twins in bathing suits will come over and see my vehicle and
smell my cologne and fall at my feet...and if my wife doesn't like it I'll
just get her some of that shampoo that causes her to have an orgasm and
maybe some of those feminine products so she can go horseback or roller
skating with a smile on her face.....truth is I actually saw a commercial
aired on tv where the girl took her tampon and plugged a hole in the bottom
of a boat....sheesh...talk about hype.
mel wrote:
> thank you Bob.....now if you don't mind I'm going to get me some of
> that beer so those twins in bathing suits will come over and see my
> vehicle and smell my cologne and fall at my feet...and if my wife
> doesn't like it I'll just get her some of that shampoo that causes
> her to have an orgasm and maybe some of those feminine products so
> she can go horseback or roller skating with a smile on her
> face.....truth is I actually saw a commercial aired on tv where the
> girl took her tampon and plugged a hole in the bottom of a
> boat....sheesh...talk about hype.
that must've been a bloody mess......
"mel" wrote in message
> that's like saying you expect the burgers to look like those on the
> commercials
Man after my own heart. One of my biggest bitches about the culture we live
in is that no one seems to give a damn about being duped by advertising.
Pictures in fast food hamburger advertisements are an excellent example of
'the lie'.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/16/04
>
> All I ask is that there's a few people on the floor to help me FIND an
> item that I know what I want. I'm certainly not going to ask advice
> from them. Just tell me where it is. I don't think that's asking
> alot, since it was the same people that put the product on the shelves
> in the first place.
Ditto. It's the same as a supermarket. I don't expect them to tell me how to
make an enchilada.... Just tell me where to find the cumin. .... and that
ought to scan correstly at the register.
Renata wrote:
> The thing is, if you want something a little bit (just a tad) beyond
> the ho-hum everyday stuff, the selection is either not very good or
> non-existant. Home Depot AND chain grocery stores.
Chain grocery stores.
When Wife and I first moved to this Stump Town Ohio there
was an old Giant Eagle in a building from the late 50s or
early 60s. This Big Bird was privately owned. First time we
went there Wife and I wandered each isle , twice. It was
food heaven, the selection was phenomenal.
Then Corporate must have bought the owner out, Corporate
built a new Corporate store behind the Old Giant Eagle and
tore the old one down.
Most if not all people miss the old store. There is no
longer a community feel. There is no longer a real selection
of food or brands, unless your looking for wine in a beer
drinking town.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart.
(S. Clemens, A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure
ends the suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
>Ditto. It's the same as a supermarket. I don't expect them to tell me how to
>make an enchilada.... Just tell me where to find the cumin. .... and that
>ought to scan correstly at the register.
I doubt that most people running the registers at the local grocery behemoth
would know what cumin is let alone where it is. I wouldn't expect it any more
than for them to know details about the different chinese foods in the ethnic
section. I would hope they could tell me the aisle for spices or where the
ethnic food section is, but that is about all. Of course I could go to the
various speciality food stores, get better service, more knowledgeable staff,
and probably better product. The trade off would be much smaller selection,
higher prices and less convienience. Gee, seems to be the jist of the Borg vs
the family hardware store. You know the Borg, you know what to expect and you
still go. You must be getting what you went there for in the first place.
Sorry, but I do not see myself going to the baker, then the butcher, then the
vegitable market, then the drygoods store to complete my weekly grocery
shopping. I will go to the grocery behemoth. Thus the local family owned
butcher shops, bakery shops, vegatable markets, etc. are bound to disappear or
become even more of a nitche market provider - just like the local hardware
stores.
Dave Hall
"David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Ditto. It's the same as a supermarket. I don't expect them to tell me how
to
> >make an enchilada.... Just tell me where to find the cumin. .... and that
> >ought to scan correstly at the register.
>
> I doubt that most people running the registers at the local grocery
behemoth
> would know what cumin is let alone where it is.
True, but I would not ask a cashier, I would ask a stock clerck. Same for
the Borg.
> The trade off would be much smaller selection,
> higher prices and less convienience. Gee, seems to be the jist of the Borg
vs
> the family hardware store. You know the Borg, you know what to expect and
you
> still go.
My point is that I expect any retailer to know his/her product line (what
they have and where to find it)..... even at a specialty store. I think
mega-store staff deserve a little slack (be it grocery or borg) as they
can't possibly be expected to know a whole store's product line really well.
It's just a matter of scale. I find that most clecks know their department
pretty well.
> You must be getting what you went there for in the first place.
> Sorry, but I do not see myself going to the baker, then the butcher, then
the
> vegitable market, then the drygoods store to complete my weekly grocery
> shopping. I will go to the grocery behemoth. Thus the local family owned
> butcher shops, bakery shops, vegatable markets, etc. are bound to
disappear or
> become even more of a nitche market provider - just like the local
hardware
> stores.
Yup, it's called market evolution. The internet is a factor too, alomost
forcing the nitche provider online to expand its base.
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:19:16 -0500, Renata <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Article I read just the other day said shelf space is
>sold and if you don't want to play the game, your product gets the
>heave-ho.
I think the Borgs do the same thing. An acquaintance of mine works
for PaveLoc. He goes into BORGs and merchandises, labels, stocks,
etc... all of their products. Kind of like the bread and soda folks
in the grocery stores.
He doesn't negotiate shelf space, that's at a higher level, but it is
negotiated, and maybe paid for.
Barry
The thing is, if you want something a little bit (just a tad) beyond
the ho-hum everyday stuff, the selection is either not very good or
non-existant. Home Depot AND chain grocery stores.
e.g. Those ethinic grocery items you mention - much better to go to a
little mom-and-pop grocer, probably being run by folks from that very
country; not only are the prices cheaper on a lot of items, but the
selection of that specific cuisine's ingredients is much more
complete.
Heck, it's getting to the point that the grocers carry only run of the
mill items. Article I read just the other day said shelf space is
sold and if you don't want to play the game, your product gets the
heave-ho.
Renata
On 21 Jan 2004 01:59:19 GMT, [email protected] (David Hall) wrote:
>>Ditto. It's the same as a supermarket. I don't expect them to tell me how to
>>make an enchilada.... Just tell me where to find the cumin. .... and that
>>ought to scan correstly at the register.
>
>I doubt that most people running the registers at the local grocery behemoth
>would know what cumin is let alone where it is. I wouldn't expect it any more
>than for them to know details about the different chinese foods in the ethnic
>section. I would hope they could tell me the aisle for spices or where the
>ethnic food section is, but that is about all. Of course I could go to the
>various speciality food stores, get better service, more knowledgeable staff,
>and probably better product. The trade off would be much smaller selection,
>higher prices and less convienience. Gee, seems to be the jist of the Borg vs
>the family hardware store. You know the Borg, you know what to expect and you
>still go. You must be getting what you went there for in the first place.
>Sorry, but I do not see myself going to the baker, then the butcher, then the
>vegitable market, then the drygoods store to complete my weekly grocery
>shopping. I will go to the grocery behemoth. Thus the local family owned
>butcher shops, bakery shops, vegatable markets, etc. are bound to disappear or
>become even more of a nitche market provider - just like the local hardware
>stores.
>
>Dave Hall
>The thing is, if you want something a little bit (just a tad) beyond
>the ho-hum everyday stuff, the selection is either not very good or
>non-existant. Home Depot AND chain grocery stores.
>
>e.g. Those ethinic grocery items you mention - much better to go to a
>little mom-and-pop grocer, probably being run by folks from that very
>country; not only are the prices cheaper on a lot of items, but the
>selection of that specific cuisine's ingredients is much more
>complete.
Yeah, but I can actually complete my weeks grocery shopping at the grocery
behemoth - that would include the chinese, mexican, italian stuff as well as
cereal, eggs, meat, milk, pop, snacks, etc. etc. How many of those ethnic
stores or mom & pops would it take to accomplish this? Sure the big guys
standardize stuff while the little guys niche market stuff. I might stop at the
Italian specialty store to get the fixings for a special dinner now and then,
just like I stop at Woodcraft to drool over big tools and buy some shellac
flakes, but I still go to the Borg for day-to-day around the house crap needs
because I can almost always find what I need there.
Dave Hall
>Heck, it's getting to the point that the grocers carry only run of the
>mill items. Article I read just the other day said shelf space is
>sold and if you don't want to play the game, your product gets the
>heave-ho.
>
>Renata
>
>On 21 Jan 2004 01:59:19 GMT, [email protected] (David Hall) wrote:
>
>>>Ditto. It's the same as a supermarket. I don't expect them to tell me how
>to
>>>make an enchilada.... Just tell me where to find the cumin. .... and that
>>>ought to scan correstly at the register.
>>
>>I doubt that most people running the registers at the local grocery behemoth
>>would know what cumin is let alone where it is. I wouldn't expect it any
>more
>>than for them to know details about the different chinese foods in the
>ethnic
>>section. I would hope they could tell me the aisle for spices or where the
>>ethnic food section is, but that is about all. Of course I could go to the
>>various speciality food stores, get better service, more knowledgeable
>staff,
>>and probably better product. The trade off would be much smaller selection,
>>higher prices and less convienience. Gee, seems to be the jist of the Borg
>vs
>>the family hardware store. You know the Borg, you know what to expect and
>you
>>still go. You must be getting what you went there for in the first place.
>>Sorry, but I do not see myself going to the baker, then the butcher, then
>the
>>vegitable market, then the drygoods store to complete my weekly grocery
>>shopping. I will go to the grocery behemoth. Thus the local family owned
>>butcher shops, bakery shops, vegatable markets, etc. are bound to disappear
>or
>>become even more of a nitche market provider - just like the local hardware
>>stores.
>>
>>Dave Hall
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, Dennis Vogel
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Do you have Wegman's near you? Now there's a grocery store - giant
> > AND a lot of variety.
>
> Also non-union if anyone cares.
With an very good employee share plan. Do you need to be union if you
can be an owner?
I have a good friend in Rochester NY that worked for Wegmans for many
years. Nothing but good things said about the company.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
In article <[email protected]>, George
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Union is the best of both worlds. Your wage has nothing to do with your
> effort, and you get to blame management for everything.
LOL!
I know a couple of people exactly like that.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Union is the best of both worlds. Your wage has nothing to do with your
effort, and you get to blame management for everything.
"Dave Balderstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:250120042030144144%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Dennis Vogel
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Do you have Wegman's near you? Now there's a grocery store - giant
> > > AND a lot of variety.
> >
> > Also non-union if anyone cares.
>
> With an very good employee share plan. Do you need to be union if you
> can be an owner?
>
> I have a good friend in Rochester NY that worked for Wegmans for many
> years. Nothing but good things said about the company.
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> With an very good employee share plan. Do you need to be union if you
> can be an owner?
> I have a good friend in Rochester NY that worked for Wegmans for many
> years. Nothing but good things said about the company.
That's where I first saw them too. GREAT subs. We've got one comingto
Chantilly and another in Fairfax. This will blow out Harris Teeter and
Subway. Can't wait for them to open.
I've been union and non-union. The only times being union was necessary
was when I couldn't talk honestly with mgmt. I prefer to do my own
talking, when it isn't allowed or listened to says a lot about the
company.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
"Dennis Vogel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Do you have Wegman's near you? Now there's a grocery store - giant
> > AND a lot of variety.
>
> Also non-union if anyone cares.
>
> Dennis Vogel
Damn, now I wish one was in the area, it would get my business.
Dave Hall
See below...
On 22 Jan 2004 02:32:35 GMT, [email protected] (David Hall) wrote:
>>The thing is, if you want something a little bit (just a tad) beyond
>>the ho-hum everyday stuff, the selection is either not very good or
>>non-existant. Home Depot AND chain grocery stores.
>>
>>e.g. Those ethinic grocery items you mention - much better to go to a
>>little mom-and-pop grocer, probably being run by folks from that very
>>country; not only are the prices cheaper on a lot of items, but the
>>selection of that specific cuisine's ingredients is much more
>>complete.
>
>Yeah, but I can actually complete my weeks grocery shopping at the grocery
>behemoth - that would include the chinese, mexican, italian stuff as well as
>cereal, eggs, meat, milk, pop, snacks, etc. etc. How many of those ethnic
>stores or mom & pops would it take to accomplish this? Sure the big guys
>standardize stuff while the little guys niche market stuff. I might stop at the
>Italian specialty store to get the fixings for a special dinner now and then,
>just like I stop at Woodcraft to drool over big tools and buy some shellac
>flakes, but I still go to the Borg for day-to-day around the house crap needs
>because I can almost always find what I need there.
Yes, of course. But if you're planning an ethinic or special dinner,
they're great. I seem to do one of these kind of dinners more often
than not since when I bother to cook, I'm usually taking the trouble
to plan something differentl Otherwise, whatever'll microwave or be
quick works. Don't have to worry about feeding kids yet, so I'm not
fussy about everyday meals - unless it's something planned.
Wallworld is going to be the answer to rushed Americans everywhere.
You're going to be able to do ALL your shopping, food, clothing, other
sundry items, all in one beheamoth location. Course, the variety and
whatnot are not gonna be what individual stores woulda provided. But,
we may be coming full circle - way back when, particularly when the
butcher, baker, etc. were individual locations, I'd guess the variety
of stuff each carried was more limited than some of the grocers that
came about in the past 10 years or so. Now we're consolidating in a
sense and throwing everything together in one giant location.
Do you have Wegman's near you? Now there's a grocery store - giant
AND a lot of variety.
Renata
>
>Dave Hall
>>Heck, it's getting to the point that the grocers carry only run of the
>>mill items. Article I read just the other day said shelf space is
>>sold and if you don't want to play the game, your product gets the
>>heave-ho.
>>
>>Renata
>>
"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Do you have Wegman's near you? Now there's a grocery store - giant
> AND a lot of variety.
Also non-union if anyone cares.
Dennis Vogel
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> that's like saying you expect the burgers to look like those on the
> commercials
>
Although it is a shame that we've been so accustomed to advertisers lying
about their products that we don't even get indignant anymore.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
I heard somewhere recently that it may not be long before
our entire dairy industry in the US is gone and all our milk
and milk products will come from overseas. I forget where
it was and all the details behind it.
Dennis Vogel
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My bet is that it's going to hurt worse than that. Next time you're at a
> grocery store take a look at where the produce comes from... it wont' be
> long before we won't be able to feed ourselves, it that isn't the case
> already.
>
> "B a r r y B u r k e J r wrote in message
>
> > I suggest the book "Affluenza" as required reading. <G>
> >
> > A good part of the book is about how WE are killing off mom and pop
> > stores, and our own Main Streets, in search of a lower price or a
> > bigger mall.
>I heard somewhere recently that it may not be long before
>our entire dairy industry in the US is gone and all our milk
>and milk products will come from overseas. I forget where
>it was and all the details behind it.
>
>Dennis Vogel
>
Last I heard it was pretty much illegal to import milk products into the US and
most states have a minimum allowable price on milk products (set by regional
government agencies) so that even if imports were legal they could not
undersell US producers. The school district for which I am business manager
buys a LOT of milk. We once had a supply contract from a Dairy for milk and
juice products. The milk was at the required minimum price (as were all other
bids) and the company won the bid by its lower juice prices. A competitor
complained to the Milk Marketing Board (yes, there really is such a government
regulatory agency) who investigated and declared that the company was illegally
selling the juice below cost in order to get the lucrative & highly profitable
milk contract. The government voided our contract, fined the offending supplier
and made us pay higher prices for our juice.
You know you are living in a Socialist country when there are Government
mandated and legally enforcable MINIMUM prices one can charge for their
products. I do not fear the demise of the US dairy industry - they have true
political clout.
Dave Hall
"Larry Laminger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> mel wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> > We've created the need for these supercenters out of our desire for a
> > convenient one-stop shopping location.
>
> I believe they (the borgs) are the ones who created the need. Exclusive
> purchasing rights and other dealings that their money can buy make it
> impossible for the mom&pop's to exist. Cut off the enemy's supply line
> and he will die. Then there is no choice but to deal with the new
> regime on their terms.
But ultimately it is because of the consumers. The borgs are only
doing it to satisfy our demands for ever lower prices. If no one
went there there wouldn't be any borgs, would there?
Dennis Vogel
Right on George.
With all the complaints about the borgs I've read here
I would have expected that everyone has stopped shopping
there. So the volume of complaints is somewhat puzzling.
Dennis Vogel
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A satisfied customer is one who feels he got it cheaper. Read the gloats,
> read the complaints. Even this thread is about "why can't I get a home
> repair guru for the buck and a half profit I give HD every week.
>
> "We have met the enemy and he is us."
>
> Pogo
>
> "C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Where does one go for good value these days? Seems as though everything
> > is geared around profit and not customer satisfaction.
>
>
>
> If I need expert advice, I will go to a place that has the experts.
>
> If you advertise expert advice, you better be able to provide it. In that
> case, places like Borgs are presenting false advertising. Just because
the
> salesman may know a little bit more about wall switches than the average
> homeowner does not make him an expert in the electrical department.
Perhaps the problem is the term "expert". Compared to the average consumer,
would venture to say that most of the folks here could be considered
"experts" in most things DIY.
If you do woodworking, odds are, you would not hire someone to replace a
faucet.
Is it possible that the definition of a plumbing expert in this context is
someone who has actually replaced a toilet with their very own hands? I
would guess that the Plumbing stock clerck at my local Lowes qualifies.
If you take the Borg marketing to say that our staff may have actually done
plumbing (wiring etc...) before, it's not such a stretch.
Let's see...it's January...i wonder why no produce is coming from Illinois?
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My bet is that it's going to hurt worse than that. Next time you're at a
> grocery store take a look at where the produce comes from... it wont' be
> long before we won't be able to feed ourselves, it that isn't the case
> already.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 1/16/04
>
> "B a r r y B u r k e J r wrote in message
>
> > I suggest the book "Affluenza" as required reading. <G>
> >
> > A good part of the book is about how WE are killing off mom and pop
> > stores, and our own Main Streets, in search of a lower price or a
> > bigger mall.
>
>
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:23:25 -0500, "George"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>A satisfied customer is one who feels he got it cheaper. Read the gloats,
>read the complaints.
Excellent observation. We should all think about that.
Barry
"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
> knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
> Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such. I mean... really? Do you really expect
to
> pay the low prices, have the huge inventory selections and someone to wait
> on you who knows as much about all the products they carry as you may
about
> the few items you've come shopping for?
Well, have you listened to their advertising? HD says "you can do it, we
can help". Is holding them to that standard too much to ask?
In truth, I don't expect or rely on them for serious help, but if they want
to tout that they can, it should be backed up pretty well. They have poster
in the store showing the employee and how much experience they have. Where
are they when we need them?
No, I don't think HD can staff the store with professionals and still sell
the volume at cheap prices. So, if you can't, don't advertise that you do.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:07:13 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>My bet is that it's going to hurt worse than that. Next time you're at a
>grocery store take a look at where the produce comes from... it wont' be
>long before we won't be able to feed ourselves, it that isn't the case
>already.
That's also in the book. <G>
Barry
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
>
> Believe it or not, you can provide good customer service at any age.
> <G> We've got two EXCELLENT 20 year olds in the bike shop They're
> rare, but they do exist..
>
And they probably have 10 or more years experience with
bicycles. I doubt your going to find a 20 year old with a
decade of experience in construction*, let alone one willing
to work for what the BORG pays.
Put them in a BORG setting and see how well they do.
I bet their excellence will quickly disappear.
* Or a 20 year old that even wants to do this kind of work,
that's why we have Mexicans.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart.
(S. Clemens, A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure
ends the suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
My bet is that it's going to hurt worse than that. Next time you're at a
grocery store take a look at where the produce comes from... it wont' be
long before we won't be able to feed ourselves, it that isn't the case
already.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/16/04
"B a r r y B u r k e J r wrote in message
> I suggest the book "Affluenza" as required reading. <G>
>
> A good part of the book is about how WE are killing off mom and pop
> stores, and our own Main Streets, in search of a lower price or a
> bigger mall.
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:57:34 GMT, "mel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
>knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
>Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such. I mean... really? Do you really expect to
>pay the low prices, have the huge inventory selections and someone to wait
>on you who knows as much about all the products they carry as you may about
>the few items you've come shopping for?
I suggest the book "Affluenza" as required reading. <G>
A good part of the book is about how WE are killing off mom and pop
stores, and our own Main Streets, in search of a lower price or a
bigger mall.
Barry
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:57:34 +0000, mel wrote:
> It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
> knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
> Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such. I mean... really? Do you really expect
> to pay the low prices, have the huge inventory selections and someone to
> wait on you who knows as much about all the products they carry as you may
> about the few items you've come shopping for?
In southern Wisconsin we have Menards and Farm/Fleet. I was looking for a
Moen replacement cartridge the other day. The cartridge was $9-10 at
Menards and Farm/Fleet and nearly twice the price at HD. When I
questioned the price, the lackey at customer service stated it must be a
different price. In any event I would have to prove that Menards and
Farm/Fleet were selling for less and then HD would give me the same price.
I have not been impressed with HD from the day the first one went up in
our area. Prices are not low. Quality is not always apparent. Customer
care is lacking.
The local hometown store has very high prices. Quality is perhaps a tad
better but most of what is for sale is also at HD. Customer care usually
is superb.
Where does one go for good value these days? Seems as though everything
is geared around profit and not customer satisfaction.
Larry
It is EXTREMELY irritating to ask someone in one of the Borg's "Where
can I find the plastic laminate/formica" and be told "What's that??
Never heard of it. I don't think they make it any more." from one of
those nice employees.
Took my business elsewhere (across the street) and bought the formica
off the shelf there
John
On 20 Jan 2004 05:51:10 -0800, [email protected] (Larry Bud)
wrote:
>> It simply amazes me when I see people act like they expect quality and
>> knowledgeable service from a huge corporate profit center such as Home
>> Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart or such.
>
>All I ask is that there's a few people on the floor to help me FIND an
>item that I know what I want. I'm certainly not going to ask advice
>from them. Just tell me where it is. I don't think that's asking
>alot, since it was the same people that put the product on the shelves
>in the first place.
>
>
>
>> You mean out of the thousands or hundreds of
>> thousands of items you carry you aren't going to guarantee that you will
>> diligently make sure each and every one of them are properly marked and
>> priced and located within easy reach?
>
>That's not asking much. This ain't brain surgery.
>
>
>> You mean you're not going to hire 150
>> professionally trained people and place an adequate number on each isle that
>> knows exactly what each item is used for in his/her department and also know
>> what each and every item is and where it's located in all the other
>> departments?
>
>They should know where it is. They work among this stuff 8 hours a
>day. Even I know where to find most items at my local Borg, and in
>the year I've lived in my house, I've probably spent 30 hours in the
>store.
>
>
>> Think about this the
>> next time you feel that you've been mistreated.... The laws of probability
>> are inevitable. Eventually we all make mistakes. Do you compensate everyone
>> when it's you making the mistake?
>
>You're trying to justify bad behavoir with more bad behavoir. I don't
>accept that.
>
>Are you a borg worker? Sounds like it.