Delta X5 Shaper Spindle Sizes

"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Pio wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I own a Delta shaper model 43-495X (3 HP, X5). Delta claims the maximum
>> spindle size available for this tool is 1 inch
>
> I don't think I classify that as a "claim", I'd say they simply told you
> the maximum spindle size that there is for that particular machine.
> That sounds like a description of the design, not a "claim"... :)
>
>> ...Looking around, I find the
>> most popular shaper cutters to be either 3/4" or 1 1/4". While I could
>> get
>> by with 3/4", it would be convenient if I could use some 1 1/4" cutters
>> (but
>> not on a regular basis). So I'm wondering if Delta is just following
>> legal
>> mumbo jumbo and there really is some way I can use a 1 1/4" cutter SAFELY
>> on
>> this machine.
>>
>> Delta does sell a 1 1/4 spindle but I don't think it's designed to fit in
>> this machine.
>
> Well, that's what they told you, isn't it? Just because another machine
> has an option, why does that make the fact that the one you have doesn't
> have the same option a conspiracy or anything more than a simple
> statement of fact?
>
>> .... Does anyone know if there is, in fact, a safe way to do this?
>> I'd appreciate the input.
>
> You can get 1-1/4 to 1 tee bushings at many places including Delta.
>
> As for safety, check against any listed maximum tip speed and weight
> limitation of the cutter although it would be quite unusual to find a
> 1-1/4 that would be excessive for a 1--not so for the 3/4 -> 1/2 that
> many smaller shaper owners run into, of course.

Duane,

I really do appreciate the feedback. I tried to word my post very carefully
to avoid this sort of interpretation. I'll try to be clearer:

I do not feel there is a conspiracy or that the manufacturer is making
unjust claims. This may be the limitation of the machine and I'm willing to
accept that. I was only asking if this is safely doable based on the
practical field experience of the members of this group. And I ask because
it's been my observation that many machines (not just woodworking) are
designed to have much greater tolerances than are specified in manuals or
spec sheets. In addition, a representative of a manufacturer would probably
not be wise to recommend specifications outside of what's written in the
supplied documentation for legal reasons. I only asked them to be more
thorough in my search and wasn't surprised at their response.

I was hoping there'd be something like 1 1/4" to 1" bushings or an
aftermarket 1 1/4" spindle that could be used safely on this machine (that I
simply wasn't aware of). Again, I'm fine with the current limitation if
that's what it turns out to be.

Thanks for taking the time responds.

-Mike

Mike Pio wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I own a Delta shaper model 43-495X (3 HP, X5). Delta claims the maximum
> spindle size available for this tool is 1 inch

I don't think I classify that as a "claim", I'd say they simply told you
the maximum spindle size that there is for that particular machine.
That sounds like a description of the design, not a "claim"... :)

> ...Looking around, I find the
> most popular shaper cutters to be either 3/4" or 1 1/4". While I could get
> by with 3/4", it would be convenient if I could use some 1 1/4" cutters (but
> not on a regular basis). So I'm wondering if Delta is just following legal
> mumbo jumbo and there really is some way I can use a 1 1/4" cutter SAFELY on
> this machine.
>
> Delta does sell a 1 1/4 spindle but I don't think it's designed to fit in
> this machine.

Well, that's what they told you, isn't it? Just because another machine
has an option, why does that make the fact that the one you have doesn't
have the same option a conspiracy or anything more than a simple
statement of fact?

> .... Does anyone know if there is, in fact, a safe way to do this?
> I'd appreciate the input.

You can get 1-1/4 to 1 tee bushings at many places including Delta.

As for safety, check against any listed maximum tip speed and weight
limitation of the cutter although it would be quite unusual to find a
1-1/4 that would be excessive for a 1--not so for the 3/4 -> 1/2 that
many smaller shaper owners run into, of course.

Mike Pio wrote:
>
> "Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Mike Pio wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I own a Delta shaper model 43-495X (3 HP, X5). Delta claims the maximum
> >> spindle size available for this tool is 1 inch
> >
> > I don't think I classify that as a "claim", I'd say they simply told you
> > the maximum spindle size that there is for that particular machine.
> > That sounds like a description of the design, not a "claim"... :)
> >
> >> ...Looking around, I find the
> >> most popular shaper cutters to be either 3/4" or 1 1/4". While I could
> >> get
> >> by with 3/4", it would be convenient if I could use some 1 1/4" cutters
> >> (but
> >> not on a regular basis). So I'm wondering if Delta is just following
> >> legal
> >> mumbo jumbo and there really is some way I can use a 1 1/4" cutter SAFELY
> >> on
> >> this machine.
> >>
> >> Delta does sell a 1 1/4 spindle but I don't think it's designed to fit in
> >> this machine.
> >
> > Well, that's what they told you, isn't it? Just because another machine
> > has an option, why does that make the fact that the one you have doesn't
> > have the same option a conspiracy or anything more than a simple
> > statement of fact?
> >
> >> .... Does anyone know if there is, in fact, a safe way to do this?
> >> I'd appreciate the input.
> >
> > You can get 1-1/4 to 1 tee bushings at many places including Delta.
> >
> > As for safety, check against any listed maximum tip speed and weight
> > limitation of the cutter although it would be quite unusual to find a
> > 1-1/4 that would be excessive for a 1--not so for the 3/4 -> 1/2 that
> > many smaller shaper owners run into, of course.
>
> Duane,
>
> I really do appreciate the feedback. I tried to word my post very carefully
> to avoid this sort of interpretation. ...

It appeared (and still does to a certain extent) that you went out of
your way to expressly create the impression--perhaps inadvertent but the
phrase "claims the maximum spindle size available" pretty clearly says
you don't believe a machine specification.

If you instead meant to ask Delta whether it was safe to operate a 5/4
cutter on a 4/4 spindle, I can't judge whether their answer was evasive
or not as you didn't provide the question as you worded it to them.


> I do not feel there is a conspiracy or that the manufacturer is making
> unjust claims. This may be the limitation of the machine and I'm willing to
> accept that.

It's clearly the limitation of the spindle assemblies available for the
machine and that's stated on the product information.

> ...I was only asking if this is safely doable based on the
> practical field experience of the members of this group. And I ask because
> it's been my observation that many machines (not just woodworking) are
> designed to have much greater tolerances than are specified in manuals or
> spec sheets. In addition, a representative of a manufacturer would probably
> not be wise to recommend specifications outside of what's written in the
> supplied documentation for legal reasons. I only asked them to be more
> thorough in my search and wasn't surprised at their response.

It certainly is true that any well-engineered piece of equipment (and
even not so good too a lesser extent, perhaps) is <not> going to fail at
1+small_delta above the actual specification data. It is not possible
to build something in an ordinary fashion that would function that way.
And, of course, no engineering organization is going to spec a piece of
equipment designed as size_x w/ a nX safety factor at anything other
than the design point.

> I was hoping there'd be something like 1 1/4" to 1" bushings or an
> aftermarket 1 1/4" spindle that could be used safely on this machine (that I
> simply wasn't aware of). Again, I'm fine with the current limitation if
> that's what it turns out to be.

There are multiple sources of bushings and many 1-1/4" cutters are sold
w/ 1" bushings (as are many 3/4" w/ 1/2") bushings included.

My reading is you probably asked the question wrong of Delta...

Anyway, the end point is you can use bushings safely as long as the
cutter limits for the spindle or the cutter aren't exceeded. The simple
consideration on limit on the spindle is total weight and diameter, the
limit on the cutter is most likely maximum tip speed.

Duane Bozarth wrote:
...
> You can get 1-1/4 to 1 tee bushings at many places including Delta.
...

Actually, including Delta in that <may> no longer be right--I actually
don't know about Delta anymore, for sure. Last time I tried to reorder
some of the 1/2" sash cutters I've used for years I discovered they had
quit making them and was told they (Delta) were getting out of the
cutter business entirely. A quick search on their site found a few 3/4"
supplied w/ 1/2" bushings but didn't see larger ones. That wasn't an
extensive search, however.

Interestingly enough they did show a of sash and cabinet <set>
consisting of a bunch of the old 1/2" cutters that were discontinued
that I don't recall having seen before--whether an order could actually
be placed and shipped, I don't know.

Mike Pio wrote:
>
> "Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Duane Bozarth wrote:
> > ...
> >> You can get 1-1/4 to 1 tee bushings at many places including Delta.
> > ...
> >
> > Actually, including Delta in that <may> no longer be right--I actually
> > don't know about Delta anymore, for sure. Last time I tried to reorder
> > some of the 1/2" sash cutters I've used for years I discovered they had
> > quit making them and was told they (Delta) were getting out of the
> > cutter business entirely. A quick search on their site found a few 3/4"
> > supplied w/ 1/2" bushings but didn't see larger ones. That wasn't an
> > extensive search, however.
> >
> > Interestingly enough they did show a of sash and cabinet <set>
> > consisting of a bunch of the old 1/2" cutters that were discontinued
> > that I don't recall having seen before--whether an order could actually
> > be placed and shipped, I don't know.
>
> I have a 2003 Freud catalog which has a host of bushings available. I also
> called a rep about this on Friday to confirm their availability. For about
> $20, you can get 1 1/4" to 1" bushings. I didn't ask about other sizes
> although they're listed in the catalog.

Woodworkers Supply has a bunch in their catalog as well for
significantly less if you just need bushings...www.woodworker.com

What they carry in larger diameter cutters I don't know as I'm using
3/4" almost exclusively...

"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Duane Bozarth wrote:
> ...
>> You can get 1-1/4 to 1 tee bushings at many places including Delta.
> ...
>
> Actually, including Delta in that <may> no longer be right--I actually
> don't know about Delta anymore, for sure. Last time I tried to reorder
> some of the 1/2" sash cutters I've used for years I discovered they had
> quit making them and was told they (Delta) were getting out of the
> cutter business entirely. A quick search on their site found a few 3/4"
> supplied w/ 1/2" bushings but didn't see larger ones. That wasn't an
> extensive search, however.
>
> Interestingly enough they did show a of sash and cabinet <set>
> consisting of a bunch of the old 1/2" cutters that were discontinued
> that I don't recall having seen before--whether an order could actually
> be placed and shipped, I don't know.

I have a 2003 Freud catalog which has a host of bushings available. I also
called a rep about this on Friday to confirm their availability. For about
$20, you can get 1 1/4" to 1" bushings. I didn't ask about other sizes
although they're listed in the catalog.

"Mike Pio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:C_lPe.2537$sw6.662@fed1read05...
> Hello,
>
> I own a Delta shaper model 43-495X (3 HP, X5). Delta claims the maximum
> spindle size available for this tool is 1 inch (I submitted a question and
> they sent me a tech support email stating this).
The catalog shows the sizes as 1/2 to 1 inch. So, it isn't a claim;
>Looking around, I find the most popular shaper cutters to be either 3/4" or
>1 1/4". While I could get by with 3/4", it would be convenient if I could
>use some 1 1/4" cutters (but not on a regular basis). So I'm wondering if
>Delta is just following legal mumbo jumbo and there really is some way I
>can use a 1 1/4" cutter SAFELY on this machine.
If you use the 1 1/4 inch spindle on the machine, and if Delta said is OK to
do this, and if something bad happens, then they may be liable for whatever
happens. Delta is not going to assume such a risk.
>
> Delta does sell a 1 1/4 spindle but I don't think it's designed to fit in
> this machine. Does anyone know if there is, in fact, a safe way to do
> this? I'd appreciate the input.
Did Delta say that this spindle fits the 43-495X? The Delta catalog lists
the arbor in the section for accessories for the heavy duty machine.
The careful reader of the catalog will note that the shapers which list the
1 1/4 spindle as available all have 5 hp motors. Perhaps that is what they
believe is needed for such cutters.
Jim
>
> -Mike
>

"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Pio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:C_lPe.2537$sw6.662@fed1read05...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I own a Delta shaper model 43-495X (3 HP, X5). Delta claims the maximum
>> spindle size available for this tool is 1 inch (I submitted a question
>> and they sent me a tech support email stating this).
> The catalog shows the sizes as 1/2 to 1 inch. So, it isn't a claim;
>>Looking around, I find the most popular shaper cutters to be either 3/4"
>>or 1 1/4". While I could get by with 3/4", it would be convenient if I
>>could use some 1 1/4" cutters (but not on a regular basis). So I'm
>>wondering if Delta is just following legal mumbo jumbo and there really is
>>some way I can use a 1 1/4" cutter SAFELY on this machine.
> If you use the 1 1/4 inch spindle on the machine, and if Delta said is OK
> to do this, and if something bad happens, then they may be liable for
> whatever happens. Delta is not going to assume such a risk.
>>
>> Delta does sell a 1 1/4 spindle but I don't think it's designed to fit in
>> this machine. Does anyone know if there is, in fact, a safe way to do
>> this? I'd appreciate the input.
> Did Delta say that this spindle fits the 43-495X? The Delta catalog lists
> the arbor in the section for accessories for the heavy duty machine.
> The careful reader of the catalog will note that the shapers which list
> the 1 1/4 spindle as available all have 5 hp motors. Perhaps that is what
> they believe is needed for such cutters.
> Jim
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>
>

No, they only said the 1" spindle is the largest available for this machine
(and I believe them). I think step-down bushings and not too large a cutter
will work fine for me.