and no voids for the bearing or bushing to trip over
BRuce
Kevin P. Fleming wrote:
> mttt wrote:
>
>> As for starting w/ MDF - wouldn't it be easier to work the shape in MDF
>> rather than ply?
>
>
> You know, I hadn't thought of that. Fairing the template to match the
> design would be much easier with MDF, yes.
>
"Kevin P. Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<CAFDb.17835$gN.2907@fed1read05>...
> ... was on last night. Absolutely stunning piece of workmanship, but I
> hope he made a dozen of the things to compensate for all the time that
> went into making the bending forms and such.
>
> Whaddya think something like that would sell for, $1,500 or so?
I like most everything David has come up with. For a one-off
woodwork-as-art guy he sure does a lot of form and template work that
would lend itself to production.
He really likes cutting and sanding MDF pieces which he then uses as
router templates for the final piece. Mucho extra work for a one-time
piece, but a natural step for production.
Mike Brown
Voids in plywood are exactly the reason you don't use it for the
initial template. I believe they are probably also the reaon he lines
his forms with cork. I use mdf for the initial template and particle
board for the remaining 'plies' of the form - no need for cork then.
The initial tmeplate just becomes part of the form. This is done by
cutting the particle board(don't use your best blades for this!!) to
rough outline, screw and glue to template, pattern route and repeat as
necessary until you have form to required height.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:40:35 -0500, BRuce <BRuce> wrote:
>and no voids for the bearing or bushing to trip over
>
>BRuce
>
>Kevin P. Fleming wrote:
>
>> mttt wrote:
>>
>>> As for starting w/ MDF - wouldn't it be easier to work the shape in MDF
>>> rather than ply?
>>
>>
>> You know, I hadn't thought of that. Fairing the template to match the
>> design would be much easier with MDF, yes.
>>
Jeff:
You wrote:
> Not sure what your source is but I took a course from David this summer,
> we made the copper patina hall table, and he told me that he did all the
> work himself. In fact he said that when you add up the hours he puts
> into the show, it doesn't pay much more then a plumber would make.
In the article on Dave in the Jan '03 issue of Woodshop News,
there is a paragraph that states:
"I rely on the skills of about a half-dozen really talented
members, " said Marks, "I meet with them and come up with
the drawings and they build pieces to my specifications.....
I don't physically have the time to build and finish
the stuff myself".
(He's talking about the Sonoma County Woodworkers group
when he says "members"). Dave lives in Santa Rosa, CA.
So unless things changed with him, this has
been on the sources of the information that Dave does
have help. He produces more shows then Norm does
and therefore I think he has to have help. I don't
fault the guy at all. I'm lucky to be living
in the same area so I might get to meet some of the people
who actually have helped him on projects (not yet, tho!).
MJ Wallace
Mike Brown wrote:
> He really likes cutting and sanding MDF pieces which he then uses as
> router templates for the final piece. Mucho extra work for a one-time
> piece, but a natural step for production.
I've wondered about that too; on last night's show, he made a "master
template" out of 3/4" MDF, then used it to make the 3 3/4" ACX plywood
templates that made the bending form. I don't really see the point of
the MDF template; he could just have traced the design onto the first
piece of ACX, cut it out and faired it (as he did the MDF) then used it
to make the other two pieces.
Even if the MDF "master template" was somehow useful, it could have been
made out of 1/4" stock instead of 3/4". Certainly those of us on a
budget would think that way :-)
Slowhand wrote:
>>Whaddya think something like that would sell for, $1,500 or so?
>
>
> I think you are on the low side. I would charge at least double that.
> There was a lot of work that went into that. Design is worth something to.
> Very original.
I was thinking that too, but I can't imagine someone paying $3K for
something with so little substance :-) Definitely a large number of
man-hours though, although I bet with the forms he made he could produce
one of those a day for a couple of weeks quite easily.
Mike,
I figure his template production serves two purposes:
1) He knows that for newbies attempting to produce quality furniture,
templates are an easy way to assure accurate production of components,
especially when identical parts are needed for symmetry.
2) I believe he considers himself fortunate to have this show. From his own
admission on his website and in interviews Marks negotiated to keep all
pieces and templates in hopes of selling them to clients. If I could get
others to pay for template production and reap the benefits, I would too.
Can't fault a man for planning for his future.
BTW he does not complete most of the work we see on the show, he has several
master woodworkers producing templates and pieces for the show, he acts
mainly as a presenter. Not that he is not capable of the work himself, but
the show production demands are such that little time is left for his craft.
JMHO,
Drew
"Mike Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Kevin P. Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<CAFDb.17835$gN.2907@fed1read05>...
> > ... was on last night. Absolutely stunning piece of workmanship, but I
> > hope he made a dozen of the things to compensate for all the time that
> > went into making the bending forms and such.
> >
> > Whaddya think something like that would sell for, $1,500 or so?
>
> I like most everything David has come up with. For a one-off
> woodwork-as-art guy he sure does a lot of form and template work that
> would lend itself to production.
>
> He really likes cutting and sanding MDF pieces which he then uses as
> router templates for the final piece. Mucho extra work for a one-time
> piece, but a natural step for production.
>
> Mike Brown
Drew wrote:
<Snip>
>
> BTW he does not complete most of the work we see on the show, he has several
> master woodworkers producing templates and pieces for the show, he acts
> mainly as a presenter. Not that he is not capable of the work himself, but
> the show production demands are such that little time is left for his craft.
>
> JMHO,
> Drew
>
>
<snip>
Not sure what your source is but I took a course from David this summer,
we made the copper patina hall table, and he told me that he did all the
work himself. In fact he said that when you add up the hours he puts
into the show, it doesn't pay much more then a plumber would make.
He designs and builds all of the pieces and retains ownership of the
designs. We did ask about all the templates he uses and as I recall he
said that that is part of the design process he uses. It's a lot cheaper
to work things out with MDF then going straight at it with the expensive
exotics he uses. You could then use the MDF templates as router templates.
He really is a nice guy and isn't as stiff as he appears on the show.
Scripts-Howard, the producers of the show, forces him to be that way.
They're very conservative and afraid to offend anyone, hence the long
sleeves to cover the tattoo, the hair cut, and even making him say "and"
instead of "a" in a sentence.
I would highly recommend taking a class from him if you ever get the
opportunity.
Jeff Zahnle
I found his FAQ here under the Wood Works section:
http://www.djmarks.com/Top%2015%20Questions.htm
Question number 6.
He'll be teaching a one week class at the Marc Adams School of
Woodworking in Indiana in June. That's the class I took this summer.
It also says that he'll be teaching some classes at Woodcraft stores.
Jeff Zahnle
Todd Keaffaber wrote:
> Jeff Zahnle <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Drew wrote:
>><Snip>
>>
>>>BTW he does not complete most of the work we see on the show, he has
>>>several
>>>master woodworkers producing templates and pieces for the show, he acts
>>>mainly as a presenter. Not that he is not capable of the work himself, but
>>>the show production demands are such that little time is left for his craft.
>>>JMHO,
>>>Drew
>>>
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>Not sure what your source is but I took a course from David this
>>summer, we made the copper patina hall table, and he told me that he
>>did all the work himself. In fact he said that when you add up the
>>hours he puts into the show, it doesn't pay much more then a plumber
>>would make.
>>
>>He designs and builds all of the pieces and retains ownership of the
>>designs. We did ask about all the templates he uses and as I recall he
>>said that that is part of the design process he uses. It's a lot
>>cheaper to work things out with MDF then going straight at it with the
>>expensive exotics he uses. You could then use the MDF templates as
>>router templates.
>>
>>He really is a nice guy and isn't as stiff as he appears on the
>>show. Scripts-Howard, the producers of the show, forces him to be that
>>way. They're very conservative and afraid to offend anyone, hence the
>>long sleeves to cover the tattoo, the hair cut, and even making him
>>say "and" instead of "a" in a sentence.
>>
>>I would highly recommend taking a class from him if you ever get the
>>opportunity.
>>
>>Jeff Zahnle
>
>
> Is there a source of information for the David's classes that he
> offers? I did a cursory look through hid website and didn't find
> anything regarding classes. Maybe I just missed it. It has been
> known to happen.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
>
Cool, thanks for the info. He did elude to the help but I assumed it was
the production staff he was referring to. I guess when you assume, you
know what happens. He did say that the production staff was pretty
clueless when it came to woodworking. They complained that he spent too
much time spreading glue for one of the glueups. They called him the
"Michelangelo of glueups"
He's a nice guy and quite a character. His website says he'll be
teaching a class at some Woodcrafts over the summer. If you get the
chance, I recommend meeting the guy.
Jeff
MJ Wallace wrote:
> Jeff:
>
> You wrote:
>
>
>>Not sure what your source is but I took a course from David this summer,
>>we made the copper patina hall table, and he told me that he did all the
>>work himself. In fact he said that when you add up the hours he puts
>>into the show, it doesn't pay much more then a plumber would make.
>
>
> In the article on Dave in the Jan '03 issue of Woodshop News,
> there is a paragraph that states:
>
> "I rely on the skills of about a half-dozen really talented
> members, " said Marks, "I meet with them and come up with
> the drawings and they build pieces to my specifications.....
> I don't physically have the time to build and finish
> the stuff myself".
>
> (He's talking about the Sonoma County Woodworkers group
> when he says "members"). Dave lives in Santa Rosa, CA.
>
>
> So unless things changed with him, this has
> been on the sources of the information that Dave does
> have help. He produces more shows then Norm does
> and therefore I think he has to have help. I don't
> fault the guy at all. I'm lucky to be living
> in the same area so I might get to meet some of the people
> who actually have helped him on projects (not yet, tho!).
>
> MJ Wallace
"Kevin P. Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CyODb.18568$gN.18335@fed1read05...
>
>
> Even if the MDF "master template" was somehow useful, it could have been
> made out of 1/4" stock instead of 3/4". Certainly those of us on a
> budget would think that way :-)
I noticed that too. He often uses 1/2" or 1/4" (last night was 1/8") stock
for his templates. I've been watching him for a couple of years now and
notice that he "changes his tune" on some things: used a table saw for a
given cut on project X and a bandsaw for a similar cut on project Y.
I wonder if he's thinking it's helpful to show novice woodworkers that
there's often several ways to accomplish a given task.
As for starting w/ MDF - wouldn't it be easier to work the shape in MDF
rather than ply?
Jeff Zahnle <[email protected]> writes:
> Drew wrote:
> <Snip>
>> BTW he does not complete most of the work we see on the show, he has
>> several
>> master woodworkers producing templates and pieces for the show, he acts
>> mainly as a presenter. Not that he is not capable of the work himself, but
>> the show production demands are such that little time is left for his craft.
>> JMHO,
>> Drew
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> Not sure what your source is but I took a course from David this
> summer, we made the copper patina hall table, and he told me that he
> did all the work himself. In fact he said that when you add up the
> hours he puts into the show, it doesn't pay much more then a plumber
> would make.
>
> He designs and builds all of the pieces and retains ownership of the
> designs. We did ask about all the templates he uses and as I recall he
> said that that is part of the design process he uses. It's a lot
> cheaper to work things out with MDF then going straight at it with the
> expensive exotics he uses. You could then use the MDF templates as
> router templates.
>
> He really is a nice guy and isn't as stiff as he appears on the
> show. Scripts-Howard, the producers of the show, forces him to be that
> way. They're very conservative and afraid to offend anyone, hence the
> long sleeves to cover the tattoo, the hair cut, and even making him
> say "and" instead of "a" in a sentence.
>
> I would highly recommend taking a class from him if you ever get the
> opportunity.
>
> Jeff Zahnle
Is there a source of information for the David's classes that he
offers? I did a cursory look through hid website and didn't find
anything regarding classes. Maybe I just missed it. It has been
known to happen.
Thanks,
Todd
"Kevin P. Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CAFDb.17835$gN.2907@fed1read05...
> ... was on last night. Absolutely stunning piece of workmanship, but I
> hope he made a dozen of the things to compensate for all the time that
> went into making the bending forms and such.
>
> Whaddya think something like that would sell for, $1,500 or so?
I think you are on the low side. I would charge at least double that.
There was a lot of work that went into that. Design is worth something to.
Very original.
SH
>
The guy spends more money on templates and scrap MDF than I spend on entire
projects. Fun to watch, but not practical for me.
Brian.
"mttt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kevin P. Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:CyODb.18568$gN.18335@fed1read05...
> >
> >
> > Even if the MDF "master template" was somehow useful, it could have been
> > made out of 1/4" stock instead of 3/4". Certainly those of us on a
> > budget would think that way :-)
>
> I noticed that too. He often uses 1/2" or 1/4" (last night was 1/8") stock
> for his templates. I've been watching him for a couple of years now and
> notice that he "changes his tune" on some things: used a table saw for a
> given cut on project X and a bandsaw for a similar cut on project Y.
>
> I wonder if he's thinking it's helpful to show novice woodworkers that
> there's often several ways to accomplish a given task.
>
> As for starting w/ MDF - wouldn't it be easier to work the shape in MDF
> rather than ply?
>
>