Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
cheaper at the local stores.
I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you get
spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
m
On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:12:21 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>Some folks can't walk, Barry. For them internet shopping is a godsend...
Coastal is great via the 'net as well, which is why I posted the link!
Barry
If you don't like Amazon, or you don't like their prices, don't buy anything
from them. The same goes for Rockler. Both of those companies are very
successful. It can't be just blind luck. There seem to be alot of fly by
night outfits that come by screaming that they have lower prices, and they
all seem to vanish in a year or two.
You are right, Amazon may not be the best price on everything. But on the
opposite side, you will never get royally hosed by Amazon either. They are
kind of like McDonalds, not the best food out there, but they are
consistent.
If you prefer another company, spend your money there. Or, better yet, keep
your funds local.
Just my opinion.
Rick
"markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only
to
> find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
> This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
> same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> cheaper at the local stores.
> I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
get
> spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
> Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
> m
>
>
Actually, isn't Amazon mostly just a front end for Tools On Sale...at least
for tools?
--
- GRL
"It's good to want things."
Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only
to
> find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
> This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
> same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> cheaper at the local stores.
> I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
get
> spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
> Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
> m
>
>
You're right. Confused the two. I remember Tools On Sale had a huge
mail-order catalog with free shipping and good prices. They don't seem to
have a web sales presence, though. Wonder why they never got into that.
--
- GRL
"It's good to want things."
Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:26:31 -0500, "GRL" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Actually, isn't Amazon mostly just a front end for Tools On Sale...at
least
> >for tools?
>
> No, I don't think so. They (Amazon) bought Tool Crib of the North a
> few years ago. Tools on Sale is the alter ego of Seven Corners Ace
> Hardware (St. Paul, MN), I believe.
>
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net
In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y B u r k e J r . <*removethis*[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:46:01 +0000, [email protected]
>(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
>>
>The official word:
>
><http://www.google.com/technology/index.html>
Addresses *ONLY* how google ranks the general listings.
*NOT* how they decide which _sponsored_links_ to display.
The "technology" used for the two selection processes is
_definitely_ different.
<http://www.google.com/ads/> shows that 'sponsored link' placement
is based the appearance of a purchased "keyword" in a search query.
In article <8%[email protected]>, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>In article <izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54>, "markm"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
>>find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
>>This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
>>same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
>>Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
>>cheaper at the local stores.
>>I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you get
>>spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>>
>>Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>>
Oops, sorry about that...
Meant to say, it helps on some searches to exclude the word "universal" as
well as "Amazon" and "Rockler".
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
"markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:s%FTb.166663$sv6.907738@attbi_s52...
> Thanks John!
>
> I didn't see Tradesman clamps but their price on K-Bar looked good.
>
> mark
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > http://www.toolfactoryoutlet.com/ has Bessey clamps... the price is
better
> > than Amazon, e.g, $30.99 for 24" K3.524 vs. $34.99 Amazon in Woodshop
News
> > February 2004. They also advertise free shipping on orders over $75 (a
> few
> > conditions on distance). 1-800-922-SAWS.
> >
> > I haven't mail ordered from them but have purchased items in their
retail
> > store. Beyond that, I have no stakeholder interest in TFO.
> >
Glad to help...
TFO doesn't list everything they sell on the web site so they very well
might have the Tradesman clamps. Off hand I don't recall what clamps they
have in the store... I haven't looked a clamps in a while...
John
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message >
>
> Coastal is great via the 'net as well, which is why I posted the link!
>
> Barry
Great? They are even better than that. They special ordered a coupleof
items for me that most people don't even know exist. I'm talking about
accessories for the Biesemeyer fence, such as the bracket that goes under
the tableboard to hold the fence when you want to remove it. I never see
that listed on a web page, but Coastal ordered them for me and shipped at
reasonable price.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
"markm" <[email protected]> writes:
>I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you get
>spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
Amazon has nothing to do with their affiliates getiing ranked high on
search engines. The affiliates only get paid if someone buys something,
so they all do everything they can to get listed higher on search engines.
I hate it when I'm trying to find any vendor besides Amazon that sells an
item. I haven't bought from Amazon in several years, but I would never
buy through any of those affiliates.
Brian Elfert
"GRL" <[email protected]> writes:
>Actually, isn't Amazon mostly just a front end for Tools On Sale...at least
>for tools?
Tools On Sale is actually Seven Corners Ace Hardware in St. Paul, MN.
Amazon bought the mail order and web portions of a company called Tool
Crib. Tool Crib has been totally integrated into Amazon, except they
still send a catalog every few weeks.
Brian Elfert
"GRL" <[email protected]> writes:
>You're right. Confused the two. I remember Tools On Sale had a huge
>mail-order catalog with free shipping and good prices. They don't seem to
>have a web sales presence, though. Wonder why they never got into that.
Tools On Sale dropped the free shipping in the past few years. I have no
idea how they compete in the mail order business without free shipping as
their prices are pretty high.
They do have a web site that is mostly worthless. It was a little better
before they redesigned it a year or so ago.
Brian Elfert
"Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> writes:
>You shouldn't just blame Amazon.com Blame Google too. Goggle has a choice
>on how to present its paying customers, it has just chosen to present a
>search by the amount of $$$ paid to show it. Just remember that it is
>people like Amazon.com and Rockler paying $$$$ for hits that you can a. use
>Google at all (you'd still be using the old yahoo format) b. that some of
>you can even access this service from the web.
If you believe the folks at Google, they do not take any money for the
regular search results. You can't pay for a higher position in the search
results.
They do sell paid ads that are clearly listed as sponsored links on each
search result page.
Brian Elfert
I buy quite a bit of stuff from Amazon, but I do agree thier search
"fixing" is most annoying. The first page or two of google hits for
tool searching almost always returns an Amazon related site. Altavista
and Yahoo don't seem to be as brand concentric as the google is
gettting. Google is going to ruin a fine thing if all you get are paid
for hits from their searches.
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
>find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
>This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
>same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
>Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
>cheaper at the local stores.
>I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you get
>spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
>Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
>m
>
In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y B u r k e J r . <*removethis*[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 04:06:07 +0000, LRod <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Although I'm sure there is some commerce involved with the search
>>engines (otherwise explain the business model that assures their
>>existance),
>
>Depends on the search engine.
>
>Some flat out sell "relevancy", pay more, get listed first. Yahoo
>comes to mind here.
>
>Others, like Google, sell advertising space shown alongside the
>spidered listings. Ads are displayed as they are relevant to the
>search results.
"sort of" relevant you mean. I _think_ the way Google works is you
(the buyer) select some search terms, and if they use _any_ of the
terms on your list, your ad is a candidate to show up as a sponsored
link. The cost is based on the number of times you want your link to
show up.
I, _all_too_regularly_, see 'sponsored links' that are utterly unrelated
to what I'm really looking for. But there's a 'context match' if you take
_one_ of the words I used in the search, in isolation. e.g., i do a search
on "stained glass window", and get sponsored links for stain removers and
window-shades.
> Google also sells solutions, the search engine draws
>possible customers to the site in the first place.
>
><http://www.google.com/services/>
>
>Barry
On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:39:56 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> I hope you all correctly inferred that...
>
>dave
Did you imply that?
tom
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
(Real Email is tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
LRod wrote:
>No, I don't think so. They (Amazon) bought Tool Crib of the North a
>few years ago. Tools on Sale is the alter ego of Seven Corners Ace
>Hardware (St. Paul, MN), I believe.
LRod is correct.
Has anyone done business with Tools On Sale/Seven Corners
Ace Hardware lately? Once upon a time they ran a full page
ad in every issue of Fine Wooddorking. Now I either don't
see them/notice them or they've fallen by the wayside.
UA100
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
>find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
<http://www.coastaltool.com/>
I can walk in to this place! <G>
Barry
In article <izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54>, "markm" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
>find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
>This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
>same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
>Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
>cheaper at the local stores.
>I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you get
>spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
>Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
>m
>
>
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:13:49 GMT, "markm"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Good advice! Actually I'm looking for like 50 clamps, that's why I'm
>concenred about the price.
>
50 Clamps? _CALL_ a smaller place like Coastal or Tools-Plus. They
may give you an even better price, drop shipped direct from Bessey or
a wholesaler.
The smaller guys may be willing to negotiate, especially if they don't
even have to touch them.
Barry
markm wrote:
> Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on
> Google only to find that just about every hit either took me
> to an Amazon or Rockler site. This really pisses me off cause
> Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the same and they are'nt
> the best. Only Rockler is worse. Amazon use to have decent
> prices but now I find that I can get things cheaper at the
> local stores. I guess they have figured out how to work the
> web search engines so you get spammed by their dammed
> "affiliates".
>
> Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
Try setting up your search to exclude pages with "amazon".
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Agreed,
I think UA100 makes a good point keep your money local. I live near a town
on the edge of extinction and do my best to bring 'em business as much as I
can.
Whats even more disappointing is that IMLTHO I think a lot of those
affiliates are whoring themselves in usenet when they can get away with it
to direct you to a for sale site. I firmly believe in not recommending brand
names when ever possible... Ever notice posts where not only do they
recommend a Mcproduct but where you can buy it on the net and have it
McShipped over night to you? Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of capitalism and
have spent part of my life defending the free enterprise system. I just
understand that soon your google searches with have tag lines like " do you
want to supersize that Stanley No 5?
EJ
Wonder if the affiliates have thought of the fact that if your going to end
up at Amazon when you order anyway, pretty soon you'll start going directly
to Amazon in the first place. I know I would.
mark
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "markm" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
get
> >spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
> Amazon has nothing to do with their affiliates getiing ranked high on
> search engines. The affiliates only get paid if someone buys something,
> so they all do everything they can to get listed higher on search engines.
>
> I hate it when I'm trying to find any vendor besides Amazon that sells an
> item. I haven't bought from Amazon in several years, but I would never
> buy through any of those affiliates.
>
> Brian Elfert
>
<g> My bad!
dave
Tom Watson wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:47:41 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>...
>
>
> Hey, you know that always makes me laugh.
>
> That's not fair.
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
> (Real Email is tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only
to
> find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
> This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
> same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> cheaper at the local stores.
> I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
get
> spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
> Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
> m
I, too, have been frustrated when searching for woodworking stuff with
landing on all of the Amazon affiliates. I've had no success exluding
amazon from the search results by searching on, for example, "delta
dj-20 -amazon". However, I don't see how this equals price-fixing. The
affiliates are just a front-end to the Amazon site, so why should the prices
be any different from one to another? When I was looking for clamps
(Jorgensens), I got them from ebay. By the way, there was a thread here
last month titled "How to search for tools on the internet" that listed
several dealers not related to amazon. You might try checking that list.
Did anyone else sense the irony in the statement that you liked the web
better before it was so commercial while you were doing a Google search for
some clamps to buy?
todd
Well, there are companies that specialize in web search hitting. A friend
runs one and they know all the tricks and keywords the get higher hit rates.
mark
"Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You shouldn't just blame Amazon.com Blame Google too. Goggle has a
choice
> on how to present its paying customers, it has just chosen to present a
> search by the amount of $$$ paid to show it. Just remember that it is
> people like Amazon.com and Rockler paying $$$$ for hits that you can a.
use
> Google at all (you'd still be using the old yahoo format) b. that some of
> you can even access this service from the web.
> --
> Young Carpenter
>
> "Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
> plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
>
> {Put the fiddler back "on" the roof to reply}
>
> --
>
>
> "Jim K" <jkajpust@###ameritech.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I buy quite a bit of stuff from Amazon, but I do agree thier search
> > "fixing" is most annoying. The first page or two of google hits for
> > tool searching almost always returns an Amazon related site. Altavista
> > and Yahoo don't seem to be as brand concentric as the google is
> > gettting. Google is going to ruin a fine thing if all you get are paid
> > for hits from their searches.
> >
> > On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
only
> to
> > >find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
> site.
> > >This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being
the
> > >same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> > >Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> > >cheaper at the local stores.
> > >I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
> get
> > >spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> > >
> > >Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> > >
> > >m
> > >
> >
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> writes:
> LRod wrote:
>>No, I don't think so. They (Amazon) bought Tool Crib of the North a
>>few years ago. Tools on Sale is the alter ego of Seven Corners Ace
>>Hardware (St. Paul, MN), I believe.
>
>
> LRod is correct.
Not entirely. IIRC, Amazon only bought out the mail order part
(or perhaps it was only the online part of their mail order business)
of Tool Crib of the North. They didn't buy the stores, which are
located in North Dakota, n'est-ce pas?
--
Jeff Thunder
The From: header above is wrong on porpoise
To reply, use jeffthunder (at) comcast (dot) net
Good advice! Actually I'm looking for like 50 clamps, that's why I'm
concenred about the price.
Thanks,
mark
"Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Note that if for some stupid reason you want to buy only 2 bessys Amazon
is
> cheaper because amazon ships free on anything more than $25 however be
> advised that free shipping means it is lower on the shipping priority list
> (3-5 vs. 5-7 days)
>
> --
>
>
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> > > Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
> only
> > to
> > > find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
> > site.
> > > This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being
> the
> > > same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> > > Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> > > cheaper at the local stores.
> > > I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so
you
> > get
> > > spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> > >
> > > Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> > >
> > > m
> > >
> >
> > http://www.toolfactoryoutlet.com/ has Bessey clamps... the price is
better
> > than Amazon, e.g, $30.99 for 24" K3.524 vs. $34.99 Amazon in Woodshop
News
> > February 2004. They also advertise free shipping on orders over $75 (a
> few
> > conditions on distance). 1-800-922-SAWS.
> >
> > I haven't mail ordered from them but have purchased items in their
retail
> > store. Beyond that, I have no stakeholder interest in TFO.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
How do you "keep it local" when what you need/want isn't available??
Last time I checked, there weren't any Veritas low angle block planes.
As a matter of fact when I wanted to get my Powermatic jointer, that too
wasn't available. It is NOW, but it wasn't THEN. sigh...
dave
Eric Johnson wrote:
> Agreed,
> I think UA100 makes a good point keep your money local. I live near a town
> on the edge of extinction and do my best to bring 'em business as much as I
> can.
> Whats even more disappointing is that IMLTHO I think a lot of those
> affiliates are whoring themselves in usenet when they can get away with it
> to direct you to a for sale site. I firmly believe in not recommending brand
> names when ever possible... Ever notice posts where not only do they
> recommend a Mcproduct but where you can buy it on the net and have it
> McShipped over night to you? Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of capitalism and
> have spent part of my life defending the free enterprise system. I just
> understand that soon your google searches with have tag lines like " do you
> want to supersize that Stanley No 5?
>
> EJ
>
>
Using search engines effectively requires not only including relevant
search words, but also excluding undesirable words. A search line of:
bessey clamps , will return one result while a search line of: bessey
clamps -amazon -rockler , will return a different result.
In most cases, a quick review of the "advanced search" link on most
search engines will provide all the specifics required to effectively
construct a search with tailored results.
Tim
Jim K wrote:
> I buy quite a bit of stuff from Amazon, but I do agree thier search
> "fixing" is most annoying. The first page or two of google hits for
> tool searching almost always returns an Amazon related site. Altavista
> and Yahoo don't seem to be as brand concentric as the google is
> gettting. Google is going to ruin a fine thing if all you get are paid
> for hits from their searches.
>
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
>>find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
>>This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
>>same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
>>Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
>>cheaper at the local stores.
>>I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you get
>>spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>>
>>Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>>
>>m
>>
>
>
--
No BoomBoom for me! - [email protected]
sorta reminds me of the lament that Christmas is "becoming" too
commercial. Gimme a break! Christmas was commercial long before I got
my first American Flyer...in 1953.
Just wait another few years, markm! If you hate it now, you'll
positively freak over the coming "changes".
dave
markm wrote:
> Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
> find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
> This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
> same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> cheaper at the local stores.
> I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you get
> spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
> Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
> m
>
>
"markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only
to
> find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
> This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
> same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> cheaper at the local stores.
> I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
get
> spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
> Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
> m
>
http://www.toolfactoryoutlet.com/ has Bessey clamps... the price is better
than Amazon, e.g, $30.99 for 24" K3.524 vs. $34.99 Amazon in Woodshop News
February 2004. They also advertise free shipping on orders over $75 (a few
conditions on distance). 1-800-922-SAWS.
I haven't mail ordered from them but have purchased items in their retail
store. Beyond that, I have no stakeholder interest in TFO.
John
I did come across Costal, looks decent, Thanks!
mark
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only
to
> >find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
>
> <http://www.coastaltool.com/>
>
> I can walk in to this place! <G>
>
> Barry
I know, hard to believe from someone gainfully employed on the foreskin of
technology by the Worlds biggest Chump maker. I can design branch
prediction or n-way associative cache but can't find decent price on a clamp
to save my life.
mark
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> sorta reminds me of the lament that Christmas is "becoming" too
> commercial. Gimme a break! Christmas was commercial long before I got
> my first American Flyer...in 1953.
>
> Just wait another few years, markm! If you hate it now, you'll
> positively freak over the coming "changes".
>
> dave
>
> markm wrote:
>
> > Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
only to
> > find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
> > This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being
the
> > same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> > Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> > cheaper at the local stores.
> > I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
get
> > spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> >
> > Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> >
> > m
> >
> >
>
Note that if for some stupid reason you want to buy only 2 bessys Amazon is
cheaper because amazon ships free on anything more than $25 however be
advised that free shipping means it is lower on the shipping priority list
(3-5 vs. 5-7 days)
--
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> > Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
only
> to
> > find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
> site.
> > This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being
the
> > same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> > Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> > cheaper at the local stores.
> > I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
> get
> > spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> >
> > Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> >
> > m
> >
>
> http://www.toolfactoryoutlet.com/ has Bessey clamps... the price is better
> than Amazon, e.g, $30.99 for 24" K3.524 vs. $34.99 Amazon in Woodshop News
> February 2004. They also advertise free shipping on orders over $75 (a
few
> conditions on distance). 1-800-922-SAWS.
>
> I haven't mail ordered from them but have purchased items in their retail
> store. Beyond that, I have no stakeholder interest in TFO.
>
> John
>
>
>
You shouldn't just blame Amazon.com Blame Google too. Goggle has a choice
on how to present its paying customers, it has just chosen to present a
search by the amount of $$$ paid to show it. Just remember that it is
people like Amazon.com and Rockler paying $$$$ for hits that you can a. use
Google at all (you'd still be using the old yahoo format) b. that some of
you can even access this service from the web.
--
Young Carpenter
"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
plenty of practice, and you usually make way more noise than intended"
{Put the fiddler back "on" the roof to reply}
--
"Jim K" <jkajpust@###ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I buy quite a bit of stuff from Amazon, but I do agree thier search
> "fixing" is most annoying. The first page or two of google hits for
> tool searching almost always returns an Amazon related site. Altavista
> and Yahoo don't seem to be as brand concentric as the google is
> gettting. Google is going to ruin a fine thing if all you get are paid
> for hits from their searches.
>
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only
to
> >find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
> >This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
> >same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> >Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> >cheaper at the local stores.
> >I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
get
> >spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> >
> >Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> >
> >m
> >
>
Oh, ya hit a nerve there. What the hell happened to Froogle, the suck these
days. I find it a better use of my time at www.booble.com.
mark
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only
to
> >find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
> >This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
> >same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> >Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> >cheaper at the local stores.
> >I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
get
> >spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> >
> >Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> >
> >m
> >
>
> Try Froogle instead of Google. Use
>
> Bessey -Amazon
>
> The minus eliminates hits with "Amazon"
On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:50:28 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 03 Feb 2004 20:21:35 GMT, Brian Elfert <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>If you believe the folks at Google, they do not take any money for the
>>regular search results. You can't pay for a higher position in the search
>>results.
>>
>>They do sell paid ads that are clearly listed as sponsored links on each
>>search result page.
>
>
>This is how I always thought Google works as well.
Although I'm sure there is some commerce involved with the search
engines (otherwise explain the business model that assures their
existance), in the years I've had a website (particularly the Norm's
Tools part), I have never registered, much less paid, for any of the
search engines. Yet if you do a search for "norm's tools" or
"woodbutcher" or several other phrases associated with my site, you
will find lots of links to it.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Ok, yes I noticed :-)
Guess my comment on price fixing is that I noticed they all end up at the
same price, what are the odds of that if they wern't connected.
mark
"todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> > Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
only
> to
> > find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
> site.
> > This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being
the
> > same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> > Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> > cheaper at the local stores.
> > I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
> get
> > spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> >
> > Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> >
> > m
>
> I, too, have been frustrated when searching for woodworking stuff with
> landing on all of the Amazon affiliates. I've had no success exluding
> amazon from the search results by searching on, for example, "delta
> dj-20 -amazon". However, I don't see how this equals price-fixing. The
> affiliates are just a front-end to the Amazon site, so why should the
prices
> be any different from one to another? When I was looking for clamps
> (Jorgensens), I got them from ebay. By the way, there was a thread here
> last month titled "How to search for tools on the internet" that listed
> several dealers not related to amazon. You might try checking that list.
>
> Did anyone else sense the irony in the statement that you liked the web
> better before it was so commercial while you were doing a Google search
for
> some clamps to buy?
>
> todd
>
>
Yeah but those items are still catalog order specialty in my book and
whether your order from the catalog or the website your not overwhelmed with
30 responses of the same product. Don't all those subordinate sites get a
kick back from Amazon or Rockler if they initiate the shopping cart? And
when you bought the low angle Veritas did you sift through 30 sites to get
to the same Amazon or Rockler drop ship shopping cart or did you go right to
Lee Valley?
One thing I am disappointed with is my local hardware store is now logging
into Amazon for those odd request items but I suppose it's a nice service
for the rest of the folks in the township that don't have access..
EJ
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> How do you "keep it local" when what you need/want isn't available??
> Last time I checked, there weren't any Veritas low angle block planes.
> As a matter of fact when I wanted to get my Powermatic jointer, that too
> wasn't available. It is NOW, but it wasn't THEN. sigh...
>
> dave
>
> Eric Johnson wrote:
>
> > Agreed,
> > I think UA100 makes a good point keep your money local. I live near a
town
> > on the edge of extinction and do my best to bring 'em business as much
as I
> > can.
> > Whats even more disappointing is that IMLTHO I think a lot of those
> > affiliates are whoring themselves in usenet when they can get away with
it
> > to direct you to a for sale site. I firmly believe in not recommending
brand
> > names when ever possible... Ever notice posts where not only do they
> > recommend a Mcproduct but where you can buy it on the net and have it
> > McShipped over night to you? Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of capitalism
and
> > have spent part of my life defending the free enterprise system. I just
> > understand that soon your google searches with have tag lines like " do
you
> > want to supersize that Stanley No 5?
> >
> > EJ
> >
> >
>
In article <b2DTb.212896$na.348219@attbi_s04>,
markm <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, yes I noticed :-)
>
>Guess my comment on price fixing is that I noticed they all end up at the
>same price, what are the odds of that if they wern't connected.
But, they _are_ connected. The actual seller is Amazon, in all those cases.
The folks front-ending the site just get a small commission for any sales
that come to Amazon via a 'click through' from the front-end site. Since
you've got _one_ seller, with _one_ price, paying a fixed 'referral fee' to
those who generate the lead responsible for the sale, it's not at all
surprising that you see the same price "everywhere". same seller, same
price. :)
>
>mark
>"todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
>> > Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
>only
>> to
>> > find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
>> site.
>> > This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being
>the
>> > same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
>> > Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
>> > cheaper at the local stores.
>> > I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
>> get
>> > spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>> >
>> > Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>> >
>> > m
>>
>> I, too, have been frustrated when searching for woodworking stuff with
>> landing on all of the Amazon affiliates. I've had no success exluding
>> amazon from the search results by searching on, for example, "delta
>> dj-20 -amazon". However, I don't see how this equals price-fixing. The
>> affiliates are just a front-end to the Amazon site, so why should the
>prices
>> be any different from one to another? When I was looking for clamps
>> (Jorgensens), I got them from ebay. By the way, there was a thread here
>> last month titled "How to search for tools on the internet" that listed
>> several dealers not related to amazon. You might try checking that list.
>>
>> Did anyone else sense the irony in the statement that you liked the web
>> better before it was so commercial while you were doing a Google search
>for
>> some clamps to buy?
>>
>> todd
>>
>>
>
>
On 03 Feb 2004 20:21:35 GMT, Brian Elfert <[email protected]> wrote:
>If you believe the folks at Google, they do not take any money for the
>regular search results. You can't pay for a higher position in the search
>results.
>
>They do sell paid ads that are clearly listed as sponsored links on each
>search result page.
This is how I always thought Google works as well.
Barry
"markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
>
>
> Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only
to
> find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
site.
Agreed. Frustrating. Also have had little benefit from asking Google to
"-Amazon" from a query. Seems to me this is where niche engines like
ToolSeeker would excel. I wish ToolSeeker covered more vendors.
Well, as a matter of fact, I'm buying less and less from them.
And no, it's not an accident, more like superb marketing and sales. The
problem stems from the fact they are so in-your-face it makes it really hard
to find alternatives.
Money local, I went clear to Arkansas for whetstones, they were much cheaper
and better too. And if that's not far enough I went all the way to Germany
for my M5.
Realizing it's another rant, I also wish people would stop buying cheap shit
because it getting harder and harder to find good stuff.
Regards,
mark
"Rick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you don't like Amazon, or you don't like their prices, don't buy
anything
> from them. The same goes for Rockler. Both of those companies are very
> successful. It can't be just blind luck. There seem to be alot of fly by
> night outfits that come by screaming that they have lower prices, and they
> all seem to vanish in a year or two.
>
> You are right, Amazon may not be the best price on everything. But on the
> opposite side, you will never get royally hosed by Amazon either. They are
> kind of like McDonalds, not the best food out there, but they are
> consistent.
>
> If you prefer another company, spend your money there. Or, better yet,
keep
> your funds local.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Rick
>
>
> "markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> > Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
only
> to
> > find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
> site.
> > This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being
the
> > same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> > Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> > cheaper at the local stores.
> > I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
> get
> > spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> >
> > Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> >
> > m
> >
> >
>
>
"Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> advised that free shipping means it is lower on the shipping priority list
> (3-5 vs. 5-7 days)
I've free-shipped about everything I've bought from ToolCrib (Amazon) and
have had stuff delivered the day after the order. The longest I've waited
is 5 business days!
Free shipping, for me at least, has been wonderful!
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
>find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
>This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being the
>same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
>Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
>cheaper at the local stores.
>I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you get
>spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
>
>Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
>m
>
Try Froogle instead of Google. Use
Bessey -Amazon
The minus eliminates hits with "Amazon"
Some folks can't walk, Barry. For them internet shopping is a godsend...
dave
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:46:55 GMT, "markm"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google only to
>>find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler site.
>
>
> <http://www.coastaltool.com/>
>
> I can walk in to this place! <G>
>
> Barry
Thanks John!
I didn't see Tradesman clamps but their price on K-Bar looked good.
mark
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "markm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:izzTb.162368$Rc4.1267504@attbi_s54...
> > Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
only
> to
> > find that just about every hit either took me to an Amazon or Rockler
> site.
> > This really pisses me off cause Amazon seems to fix prices, all being
the
> > same and they are'nt the best. Only Rockler is worse.
> > Amazon use to have decent prices but now I find that I can get things
> > cheaper at the local stores.
> > I guess they have figured out how to work the web search engines so you
> get
> > spammed by their dammed "affiliates".
> >
> > Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
> >
> > m
> >
>
> http://www.toolfactoryoutlet.com/ has Bessey clamps... the price is better
> than Amazon, e.g, $30.99 for 24" K3.524 vs. $34.99 Amazon in Woodshop News
> February 2004. They also advertise free shipping on orders over $75 (a
few
> conditions on distance). 1-800-922-SAWS.
>
> I haven't mail ordered from them but have purchased items in their retail
> store. Beyond that, I have no stakeholder interest in TFO.
>
> John
>
>
>
On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:27:39 GMT, [email protected] (Jeff
Thunder) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Unisaw A100 <[email protected]> writes:
>> LRod wrote:
>>>No, I don't think so. They (Amazon) bought Tool Crib of the North a
>>>few years ago. Tools on Sale is the alter ego of Seven Corners Ace
>>>Hardware (St. Paul, MN), I believe.
>>
>>
>> LRod is correct.
>
>Not entirely. IIRC, Amazon only bought out the mail order part
>(or perhaps it was only the online part of their mail order business)
>of Tool Crib of the North. They didn't buy the stores, which are
>located in North Dakota, n'est-ce pas?
I was aware of that, but I didn't include the details because I was
trying to make the point that Amazon hadn't bought "Tools on Sale" and
to correct who they (T-O-S) were.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:26:31 -0500, "GRL" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Actually, isn't Amazon mostly just a front end for Tools On Sale...at least
>for tools?
No, I don't think so. They (Amazon) bought Tool Crib of the North a
few years ago. Tools on Sale is the alter ego of Seven Corners Ace
Hardware (St. Paul, MN), I believe.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:46:01 +0000, [email protected]
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
The official word:
<http://www.google.com/technology/index.html>
Barry
On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 04:06:07 +0000, LRod <[email protected]> wrote:
>Although I'm sure there is some commerce involved with the search
>engines (otherwise explain the business model that assures their
>existance),
Depends on the search engine.
Some flat out sell "relevancy", pay more, get listed first. Yahoo
comes to mind here.
Others, like Google, sell advertising space shown alongside the
spidered listings. Ads are displayed as they are relevant to the
search results. Google also sells solutions, the search engine draws
possible customers to the site in the first place.
<http://www.google.com/services/>
Barry
On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:47:41 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>...
Hey, you know that always makes me laugh.
That's not fair.
Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
(Real Email is tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
...
dave
Tom Watson wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:39:56 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> I hope you all correctly inferred that...
>>
>>dave
>
>
>
> Did you imply that?
>
> tom
>
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
> (Real Email is tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
markm wrote:
> Recenty went looking for a good source for clamps (Bessey) on Google
>
> Boy I sure like the web better before it bacame so commercial.
>
> m
You want to buy stuff, but you don't want it to be commercial? If it was
not commercial, you could not buy stuff. --
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome