Selecting Screws for Assembling Beehives

In article <ob6dc.216115$Cb.1894281@attbi_s51>, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm about to assemble a bunch of beehives and am looking for a couple of
>types of screws to cut labor. Any help will be appreciated.

EUREKA! A *new* kind of "honey do" item. <guffaw>

>The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4" nominal)
>material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat underside of
>head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I think
>that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great.
>Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each to
>start.

"pan-head" sheet-metal screws meet all your requirements *except* for the
shoulder.

>
>The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the part
>the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes through a
>part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another similar
>piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close to
>1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000 to
>start.

I'd be tempted to use _bolts_, with fender washers to spread the load.

Bolts give a lot more gripping power, and the grip does _not_ degrade
with repeated dis-assembly/re-assembly.

>I have looked at several of the major sites and haven't located what I'm
>looking for, although I'm sure these are available. I have maybe two weeks
>before I need to start building these hives.
>
>I remember the thread about organic glue several months ago. I thought it
>was about the funniest thing I had ever heard. Now I'm looking for an
>organic glue:). Funny how life goes...
>
>Dave
>
>

Hi Dave:

I've built about 20 boxes (deeps & supers) from plans over at
http://www.beesource.com/. He recommends 6d galvanized nails which
have done the trick for at least 5 years. I use Titebond II, also. If
you're doing box joints, I'd think screws would be unnecessary. I
prime & paint the outside, but not the inside of the boxes

Screws on the frames would seem to be a lot of work. Are you milling
your own frames, too? I'd recommend buying them pre-cut and assembling
them.

Good luck!

Chris



"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4" nominal)
> material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat underside of
> head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I think
> that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great.
> Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each to
> start.
>
> The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the part
> the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes through a
> part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another similar
> piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close to
> 1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000 to
> start.

how about:
http://store.yahoo.com/squaredrive/fasteners-screws-round-washer-head-yellow-zinc-plated.html

or just start here:
http://store.yahoo.com/squaredrive/fasteners-screws.html





On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:30:59 GMT, "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

>By shoulder I mean a part of the shaft of the screw without threads, not
>under the flat of the head.
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:ob6dc.216115$Cb.1894281@attbi_s51...
>> I'm about to assemble a bunch of beehives and am looking for a couple of
>> types of screws to cut labor. Any help will be appreciated.
>>
>> The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4" nominal)
>> material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat underside
>of
>> head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I
>think
>> that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great.
>> Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each to
>> start.
>>
>> The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the part
>> the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes through
>a
>> part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another similar
>> piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close to
>> 1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000 to
>> start.
>>
>> I have looked at several of the major sites and haven't located what I'm
>> looking for, although I'm sure these are available. I have maybe two
>weeks
>> before I need to start building these hives.
>>
>> I remember the thread about organic glue several months ago. I thought it
>> was about the funniest thing I had ever heard. Now I'm looking for an
>> organic glue:). Funny how life goes...
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>

By shoulder I mean a part of the shaft of the screw without threads, not
under the flat of the head.

Dave



"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ob6dc.216115$Cb.1894281@attbi_s51...
> I'm about to assemble a bunch of beehives and am looking for a couple of
> types of screws to cut labor. Any help will be appreciated.
>
> The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4" nominal)
> material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat underside
of
> head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I
think
> that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great.
> Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each to
> start.
>
> The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the part
> the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes through
a
> part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another similar
> piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close to
> 1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000 to
> start.
>
> I have looked at several of the major sites and haven't located what I'm
> looking for, although I'm sure these are available. I have maybe two
weeks
> before I need to start building these hives.
>
> I remember the thread about organic glue several months ago. I thought it
> was about the funniest thing I had ever heard. Now I'm looking for an
> organic glue:). Funny how life goes...
>
> Dave
>
>

When I posted I had high hopes of finding one person who had something to do
with bees-- I guess I should have known better since most people here seem
to have many of the same hobbies.

The complete story goes something like this:

My neighbor is a beekeeper at the small business/part-time level. We have
been working on several neighborhood projects together and he offered to
teach me what I need to know. My first foray will be four (4) hives. I was
able to buy 4 supers (10 inch boxes) for $20 each used but with new paint
and new frames. The idea is to put each bee package in a super and then
start building some more supers to add on top. He told me to plan on at
least three supers for each hive this year.

I can get the extra-heavy frames kits for around 70 cents if I buy 100 at a
time so that is what I'm going to do. I'm going to use permadent
foundations which are something like 85 cents. The box kits are $9.50 and
while I'd like to make my own, I have some travel this spring and have
decided to just buy the first 10.

So, back to the point. Neighbor says he has found that if he uses screws to
assemble, the pieces last a lot longer. He showed me some boxes he had
assembled with clamps and screws. They look new after 5 years. The paint
hasn't even cracked over the joints. They are painted only on the outside
with a latex paint over two coats of latex primer. For screws he uses the
standard yellow plated screws from the borg. He clamps things up and then
drills a pilot hole, followed by a larger relief hole through the first
layer (to keep the threads from engaging the first board. On the top and
bottom screw of each joint he uses one of those little chrome washers that
is sort of cup shaped. He says that keeps the corners from warping and
splitting (which I can see it does). So I got this bright idea about a
self-tapping, pan-headed screw with no threads where it goes through the
first board. Save time, longer life. I think I'm still willing to give it
a try if I come across just the right thing. Bridger posted one that is
pretty close to ideal and is also the one I had my eye on. I guess the
simplest way to describe the screw is one to hold a piece of 1x stock onto
the endgrain of another 1x. Of course the configuration is boxjoints. I'll
look a little more this weekend and then make a decision.

Neighbor assembles his frames with very tiny brass screws. He said he got
them at "the hardware store," but hasn't been able to find any except
standard slotted head type. This looks pretty tedious to me but I can see
how it would be an advantage to have super sturdy frames. He has a 20-frame
extractor and he says it is pretty hard on nailed frames.

I can't use a glue like titebond (I'm told) because that would preclude me
from selling the honey as "organically grown" which I'm told sells for
$8-10 a quart around these parts. My hope is to cover costs and make a slim
profit by the end of the second season. Realistically all the money will go
back into the equipment but I'd like to cover costs by then at least.

So... my bee packages come on Saturday. I'm leaving for an overnighter in a
bit so I'll be checking this thread tomorrow. I really appreciate
everyone's input. I'll study the info I have received.

Thanks

Dave





"Gern Blandston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Dave:
>
> I've built about 20 boxes (deeps & supers) from plans over at
> http://www.beesource.com/. He recommends 6d galvanized nails which
> have done the trick for at least 5 years. I use Titebond II, also. If
> you're doing box joints, I'd think screws would be unnecessary. I
> prime & paint the outside, but not the inside of the boxes
>
> Screws on the frames would seem to be a lot of work. Are you milling
> your own frames, too? I'd recommend buying them pre-cut and assembling
> them.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4"
nominal)
> > material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat underside
of
> > head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I
think
> > that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great.
> > Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each
to
> > start.
> >
> > The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the
part
> > the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes
through a
> > part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another similar
> > piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close
to
> > 1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000
to
> > start.

Dave:

I'd go with Jock's advice. Much as I'd like to sell you screws for your
beehives, I think there may be some advantage to going with the flow on this
one, and frankly, I don't know enough about the construction of a beehive to
give you any worthwhile advice. I'm guessing that after all these years, the
beekeepers have pretty well figured out what works.

Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com

"Jock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Use galvanised flathead nails. You can get them from good hardware or
> beekeeping supply outlets.
> Ends should be side nailed at the shoulders with a smaller diameter 1/2
inch
> flat head nail to prevent any pulling apart vertically..
> Galvanised hardware is a must with beehives.
> Don't use water based glue if you must glue and never ever glue only.
> Fix the bottomboards on with a 3 inch x 1/8 flathead gal nail.
> I have never seen screws used for frames. They would be OK on bottomboards
I
> guess but gal nails have been used for decades by beekeepers without
> problems.
> Good Luck!
> * Try a post to sci.agriculture.beekeeping or alt.hobbies.beekeeping
forums
> too.
> Jock
>
>
> "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Dk6dc.213723$_w.2069551@attbi_s53...
> | By shoulder I mean a part of the shaft of the screw without threads, not
> | under the flat of the head.
> |
> | Dave
> |
> |
> |
> | "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | news:ob6dc.216115$Cb.1894281@attbi_s51...
> | > I'm about to assemble a bunch of beehives and am looking for a couple
of
> | > types of screws to cut labor. Any help will be appreciated.
> | >
> | > The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4"
> nominal)
> | > material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat
underside
> | of
> | > head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I
> | think
> | > that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great.
> | > Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each
> to
> | > start.
> | >
> | > The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the
> part
> | > the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes
> through
> | a
> | > part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another
similar
> | > piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close
> to
> | > 1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000
> to
> | > start.
> | >
> | > I have looked at several of the major sites and haven't located what
I'm
> | > looking for, although I'm sure these are available. I have maybe two
> | weeks
> | > before I need to start building these hives.
> | >
> | > I remember the thread about organic glue several months ago. I
thought
> it
> | > was about the funniest thing I had ever heard. Now I'm looking for an
> | > organic glue:). Funny how life goes...
> | >
> | > Dave
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>

Use galvanised flathead nails. You can get them from good hardware or
beekeeping supply outlets.
Ends should be side nailed at the shoulders with a smaller diameter 1/2 inch
flat head nail to prevent any pulling apart vertically..
Galvanised hardware is a must with beehives.
Don't use water based glue if you must glue and never ever glue only.
Fix the bottomboards on with a 3 inch x 1/8 flathead gal nail.
I have never seen screws used for frames. They would be OK on bottomboards I
guess but gal nails have been used for decades by beekeepers without
problems.
Good Luck!
* Try a post to sci.agriculture.beekeeping or alt.hobbies.beekeeping forums
too.
Jock


"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Dk6dc.213723$_w.2069551@attbi_s53...
| By shoulder I mean a part of the shaft of the screw without threads, not
| under the flat of the head.
|
| Dave
|
|
|
| "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| news:ob6dc.216115$Cb.1894281@attbi_s51...
| > I'm about to assemble a bunch of beehives and am looking for a couple of
| > types of screws to cut labor. Any help will be appreciated.
| >
| > The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4"
nominal)
| > material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat underside
| of
| > head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I
| think
| > that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great.
| > Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each
to
| > start.
| >
| > The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the
part
| > the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes
through
| a
| > part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another similar
| > piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close
to
| > 1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000
to
| > start.
| >
| > I have looked at several of the major sites and haven't located what I'm
| > looking for, although I'm sure these are available. I have maybe two
| weeks
| > before I need to start building these hives.
| >
| > I remember the thread about organic glue several months ago. I thought
it
| > was about the funniest thing I had ever heard. Now I'm looking for an
| > organic glue:). Funny how life goes...
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
|
|

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:57:54 -0400, "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'd go with Jock's advice. Much as I'd like to sell you screws for your
>beehives, I think there may be some advantage to going with the flow on this
>one...
>Jim Ray, President
>McFeely's Square Drive Screws
>www.mcfeelys.com

Psst... Jim....
"McFeely's Square Head Nails"
It's got a certain ring to it...

<sigh> With all the competition out there, you'd probably make...
oh... hundreds of dollars a year. ;>

Michael