Table Saw Noise Abatement?

Sat, Dec 27, 2003, 11:51pm (EST-3) [email protected] (Chuck=A0Aeric)
<snip> I expect it would be quite loud, and somewhat annoying to the
people in the upstairs flat. <snip>

Expect? Anticipating, aren't we? Why don't you inform the
neighbors, crank it up, and check back with the neighbors, first? There
may be no problem. And, it there is, that's the time to worry about
fixing it. Or, you could just crank it up, and see if the neighbors
complain, or not.

JOAT
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of
enthusiasm.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 27 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

I have my Doghouse (shop) in a 400 sf studio apt. with apts behind, over and
both sides. I've talked to all the neighbors and they tell me they hardly
ever hear any noise. I run a TS and routers which are the loadest and no
problem. Probably the worst is the Crapsman 5hp air compressor but I have
that on a timer so it can't run at night.

The sound that really carries is when someone turns a sterio up with loud
bass, vibrates through whole building. We stop that real quick. Oh, did I
mention that we are the managers? Fifteen years here.

Al in Longview, WA

Traves W. Coppock <newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com> wrote:

> very true, almost impossible to quiet a TS down as 99.9% of the noise
> comes from the blade cutting the stock.

I thought that was the case (but had to ask)...

> >
> >Time to buy a home ! Good luck.
>
> Time to settle down, make some dust, and stop aggravating people i
> think

Right on both counts! In the mean time, I'll skip trying to quiet the
saw and instead isolate it. The basement has several rooms for
storage, and runs the length of the building. If I hang heavy padding
over the two doorways of the room directly under my flat, that may be
enough to let me work during the day. Once I get some power and better
lighting...

Cheers,
Chuck

"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:

> A saw with an induction motor is much less objectionable than one with a
> universal motor. What saw do you have?

It's a Delta TS220; I'm pretty sure it's a universal motor. It was a
lovely gesture, if not the most useful tool for me to have right now
(looking for a house this coming year).

I primarily work with hand tools on small projects, but would love to
make a wooden telescope tube for my almost finished mirror like this
fellow (no pun intended) has done (many pictures if you click on his
other messages):

http://www.astromart.com/messages.asp?message_id=48196&page=

Very inspiring. It seems quite a job to take on with or without the
table saw.

Cheers,
Chuck

Thanks klaatu and caleb (and others), I am looking into purchasing a
quality thin kerf finishing blade. Don't have time to play with the
table saw for a few weeks, but when I do, I'll post my impressions of
the difference in noise, quality of cut, etc...

Cheers,
Chuck

[email protected] (Mike Reed) wrote:

> As an amateur astronomer myself, I have to wonder about the utility of
> a wooden tube. It's going to be very heavy, and also likely to vary
> its collimation based on seasons/humidity. The expansion and
> contraction across the grain might be pretty nasty with such a tube.

Absolutely! An empty 5' long tube (.5" wall thickness) for an 8"
mirror would weigh around 22 pounds depending on the material used. I
wonder what the wall thickness of his tube is... I wouldn't worry so
much about the collimation issues, depends on whether you mind
collimating before each session and how badly the collimation will
change through the night. I thought his method might make for a sharp
looking short tube refractor (would cannibalise the lovely optics
--great sample-- from my ugly white plastic tube ST80). Then I would
have to build an appropriate wooden mount, of course... Mmm, projects.

>
> Have you considered a cardboard or fiberglass tube with a wood veneer
> applied to it? Here's an attractive example:
> http://www.europa.com/~swayze/photo/7inchf4.jpg

Lovely scope! Well, my tube for this mirror will be of the portable
truss tube variety. (Breaks down to a small cube with everything but
the truss poles contained within.) However, I may try veneer if/when I
build a solid tube.

> PS CONGRATULATIONS on nearly finishing that mirror! What size/f-ratio
> is it?

It's an 8" f/8, originally intended to be done by Mars opposition.
Saturn is calling...

Cheers,
Chuck

"Larry C in Auburn, WA" <[email protected]> wrote:

> One other thought that isn't directly related to your question...You should
> check your lease and you might want to contact your landlord. As a landlord
> myself I'd be a bit peeved to find someone was using my property as a shop.
> I have enough provisions in my contract to prevent this from happening which
> is why I'm suggesting you should check your lease too. It would be a shame
> to move out and find you have a $3000 bill for replacing the carpets which
> is very possible. Using your flat as a shop would be considered beyond
> "normal wear and tear" which is the allowable damage where I live.

** Pontential Rant **
Well, my lease doesn't say anything about restricting "hobbies," only
businesses. That, and prohibiting washers, dryers and heavy duty
_kitchen_ appliances. As far as damages to the apartment, I am
probably one of the few renters in this complex that intends to leave
it in the same condition that I found it in. Actually, better, because
the landlord (dishonest property manager) refused to fix the front
door lock that I didn't notice was loose (any idiot with a screwdriver
could easily break in) because it wasn't noted on the move-in
inspection I requested (having been raked over the coals by a former
landlord when I left NYC). I fixed the front door and installed a
steel strike plate on the back door (the deadbolt went into a drilled
hole in the door frame (which had seen better days)! I had to rewire
half of the outlets as the hot and neutral were reversed (landlord
would send someone to look at it -- still waiting). I haven't had any
run-ins with the landlord, as most of this has been below my threshold
of annoyance and over a year ago, however I have heard stories of
abuse and neglect. I have no sympathy for lying, stealing, cheating
landlords that abuse their position to make their tenants' lives
miserable.

** Definitely Not A Rant **
My "shop" is a spare room that has a well sealed door and two small
HEPA air filtration machines (wife has mild asthma) and a shopvac with
a micron filter. Overkill for now, though using the power saw would
change that. I found an interesting link to alleviate some of the dust
from the saw if I choose to set it up in the "shop":

http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/overarm_guard.shtml

Another on noise reduction (no details really):

http://www.me.psu.edu/me415/SPRING02/niosh/

Cheers,
Chuck

[email protected] (Chuck Aeric) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>
> Would enclosing the stand (with adequate ventilation) be of any use?
> Or building a cabinet around it? It won't deaden the sound of the
> cutting action of the blade, but the whine of the motor may be abated,
> somewhat...
>

Just a follow-up: Finally had some time to set it up in the basement.
Borrowed a sound level meter and tested out the saw (no load levels).

Saw attached to steel legs: 89 dB
Saw attached to MDF enclosure (sealed box in place of legs): 82 dB
Saw floating in MDF cabinet (with above enclosure) with baffled and
filtered intake and exhaust ports and zero-clearance insert: 77 dB

Sound absorbing material was used within the enclosures and baffles.

Chuck, Try a smaller dia. blade, like 8 or 9 inch. Then you can reduce
the blade whine. Not a great fix, but it works.

On 27 Dec 2003 23:51:50 -0800, [email protected] (Chuck Aeric)
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I just received a table saw over the holiday (my first) and would love
>dearly to use it. However, I expect it would be quite loud, and
>somewhat annoying to the people in the upstairs flat. Is there
>anything I can do to reasonably reduce the noise? It is far too cold
>to work outside, unfortunately.
>
>Would enclosing the stand (with adequate ventilation) be of any use?
>Or building a cabinet around it? It won't deaden the sound of the
>cutting action of the blade, but the whine of the motor may be abated,
>somewhat...
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Cheers,
>Chuck

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 03:54:18 -0500, [email protected] Crawled out
of the shop and said. . .:

>There is no reasonable way to tone down a table saw. You would be
>disturbing your neighbors that are to your sides as well as any below
>you as well as the ones above you.

very true, almost impossible to quiet a TS down as 99.9% of the noise
comes from the blade cutting the stock.

> You will have sawdust is all your
>furniture and your food since airborne micro-particles of sawdust are
>impossible to perfectly contain.

Again, very true. but not to any great extent. i have a basement shop
in the only unfinished area of the house. the room right next to my
shop is the computer room. . .not much dust on anything in there to
amount to a pinch o poop. keep the door closed, and keep the dust in.

>
>Expect to be sued as well as evicted. An apartment ( flat ) is
>intended for ' normal ' living... not to be used as a wood shop...

my basement shop was intended for "normal" living, and "normally" i WW
in there. unless your lease specifically states against it, they
really cant say much about a hobby, noisy or not. all you really need
to do is talk with your neighbor(s), and find out when they would not
mind the noise. most folks will be agreeable about it trust me,,,i
been there. so much for getting evicted or sued

>
>Time to buy a home ! Good luck.

Time to settle down, make some dust, and stop aggravating people i
think

"Chuck Aeric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Traves W. Coppock <newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com> wrote:
>
> > very true, almost impossible to quiet a TS down as 99.9% of the noise
> > comes from the blade cutting the stock.
>
> I thought that was the case (but had to ask)...
>
A saw with an induction motor is much less objectionable than one with a
universal motor. What saw do you have?

One other thought that isn't directly related to your question...You should
check your lease and you might want to contact your landlord. As a landlord
myself I'd be a bit peeved to find someone was using my property as a shop.
I have enough provisions in my contract to prevent this from happening which
is why I'm suggesting you should check your lease too. It would be a shame
to move out and find you have a $3000 bill for replacing the carpets which
is very possible. Using your flat as a shop would be considered beyond
"normal wear and tear" which is the allowable damage where I live.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Chuck Aeric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> I just received a table saw over the holiday (my first) and would love
> dearly to use it. However, I expect it would be quite loud, and
> somewhat annoying to the people in the upstairs flat. Is there
> anything I can do to reasonably reduce the noise? It is far too cold
> to work outside, unfortunately.
>
> Would enclosing the stand (with adequate ventilation) be of any use?
> Or building a cabinet around it? It won't deaden the sound of the
> cutting action of the blade, but the whine of the motor may be abated,
> somewhat...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck

There will always be good/bad tenants and good/bad landlords. Regardless of
whether you are happy or not with your landlord I was just suggesting you be
sure you know what you're doing. Sounds like you think you're ok with your
lease. Great! If you were my renter you'd be getting a hefty bill when you
moved out if the carpet was laden with sawdust which it likely would be if
you use a tablesaw in a carpeted room. Not to mention the extra cleaning to
get the dust out of window channels, light fixtures, moulding, etc. Again,
just a friendly comment that you should be sure you know what you're doing.
When it comes time to pay the bill after moving out the court doesn't care
whether you considered your landlord a "dishonest property manager". You do
damage, you pay the bill.

The overarm guard is a great idea to cut down on the dust. With my tablesaw
(without an overarm guard/dust collector) I get quite a bit of dust thrown
at me even though I'm hooked up to a nice dust collector.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Chuck Aeric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Larry C in Auburn, WA" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > One other thought that isn't directly related to your question...You
should
> > check your lease and you might want to contact your landlord. As a
landlord
> > myself I'd be a bit peeved to find someone was using my property as a
shop.
> > I have enough provisions in my contract to prevent this from happening
which
> > is why I'm suggesting you should check your lease too. It would be a
shame
> > to move out and find you have a $3000 bill for replacing the carpets
which
> > is very possible. Using your flat as a shop would be considered beyond
> > "normal wear and tear" which is the allowable damage where I live.
>
> ** Pontential Rant **
> Well, my lease doesn't say anything about restricting "hobbies," only
> businesses. That, and prohibiting washers, dryers and heavy duty
> _kitchen_ appliances. As far as damages to the apartment, I am
> probably one of the few renters in this complex that intends to leave
> it in the same condition that I found it in. Actually, better, because
> the landlord (dishonest property manager) refused to fix the front
> door lock that I didn't notice was loose (any idiot with a screwdriver
> could easily break in) because it wasn't noted on the move-in
> inspection I requested (having been raked over the coals by a former
> landlord when I left NYC). I fixed the front door and installed a
> steel strike plate on the back door (the deadbolt went into a drilled
> hole in the door frame (which had seen better days)! I had to rewire
> half of the outlets as the hot and neutral were reversed (landlord
> would send someone to look at it -- still waiting). I haven't had any
> run-ins with the landlord, as most of this has been below my threshold
> of annoyance and over a year ago, however I have heard stories of
> abuse and neglect. I have no sympathy for lying, stealing, cheating
> landlords that abuse their position to make their tenants' lives
> miserable.
>
> ** Definitely Not A Rant **
> My "shop" is a spare room that has a well sealed door and two small
> HEPA air filtration machines (wife has mild asthma) and a shopvac with
> a micron filter. Overkill for now, though using the power saw would
> change that. I found an interesting link to alleviate some of the dust
> from the saw if I choose to set it up in the "shop":
>
> http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/overarm_guard.shtml
>
> Another on noise reduction (no details really):
>
> http://www.me.psu.edu/me415/SPRING02/niosh/
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck

Im also interested in damping sound, but in my case I have a garage shop and
want to cut down on the sound getting into the house. Most of it comes
through the door from the garage into the house. Would it help
significantly to "soundproof" the door, and, if so, how?

Thanks

Dave in Santa Barabara


"Larry C in Auburn, WA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:QTPIb.716470$Fm2.620493@attbi_s04...
> One other thought that isn't directly related to your question...You
should
> check your lease and you might want to contact your landlord. As a
landlord
> myself I'd be a bit peeved to find someone was using my property as a
shop.
> I have enough provisions in my contract to prevent this from happening
which
> is why I'm suggesting you should check your lease too. It would be a
shame
> to move out and find you have a $3000 bill for replacing the carpets which
> is very possible. Using your flat as a shop would be considered beyond
> "normal wear and tear" which is the allowable damage where I live.
> --
> Larry C in Auburn, WA
>
> "Chuck Aeric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I just received a table saw over the holiday (my first) and would love
> > dearly to use it. However, I expect it would be quite loud, and
> > somewhat annoying to the people in the upstairs flat. Is there
> > anything I can do to reasonably reduce the noise? It is far too cold
> > to work outside, unfortunately.
> >
> > Would enclosing the stand (with adequate ventilation) be of any use?
> > Or building a cabinet around it? It won't deaden the sound of the
> > cutting action of the blade, but the whine of the motor may be abated,
> > somewhat...
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chuck
>

[email protected] (Chuck Aeric) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> http://www.astromart.com/messages.asp?message_id=48196&page=
>
> Very inspiring. It seems quite a job to take on with or without the
> table saw.

Yeah, that would be quite a job without a table saw, though I don't
see why you couldn't bevel the edges of the boards with a handplane.
Cutting the boards in the first place is another story though...

As an amateur astronomer myself, I have to wonder about the utility of
a wooden tube. It's going to be very heavy, and also likely to vary
its collimation based on seasons/humidity. The expansion and
contraction across the grain might be pretty nasty with such a tube.

Have you considered a cardboard or fiberglass tube with a wood veneer
applied to it? Here's an attractive example:
http://www.europa.com/~swayze/photo/7inchf4.jpg

Just some thoughts,

Mike

PS CONGRATULATIONS on nearly finishing that mirror! What size/f-ratio
is it?

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:53:14 -0800, Mike Reed wrote:


> As an amateur astronomer myself, I have to wonder about the utility of
> a wooden tube. It's going to be very heavy, and also likely to vary
> its collimation based on seasons/humidity. The expansion and
> contraction across the grain might be pretty nasty with such a tube.

Check out "Build Your Own Telescope" by Richard Berry's - ISBN
0-943396-42-5

-Doug

Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:

>Who's worse? A guy with a screaming table saw, or a 300-pound fat woman
>who's into S&M, and likes to have people slap her with things while she's
>suspended from a ceiling sling, screaming "OH GODDDDDDDD OH BEAT
>MEEEEEEEEEEEE BEAT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE OH OH OH AH AH AH OH OH OH AH AH AH
>HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" at all hours of the night?

Every once in a while, something comes along to remind me that there
is a whole 'nother world out there that I can't even begin to relate
to...

--
Howard Lee Harkness
Texas Certified Concealed Handgun Instructor
www.CHL-TX.com
[email protected]
Low-cost Domain Registration and Hosting! www.Texas-Domains.com

There is no reasonable way to tone down a table saw. You would be
disturbing your neighbors that are to your sides as well as any below
you as well as the ones above you. You will have sawdust is all your
furniture and your food since airborne micro-particles of sawdust are
impossible to perfectly contain.

Expect to be sued as well as evicted. An apartment ( flat ) is
intended for ' normal ' living... not to be used as a wood shop...

Time to buy a home ! Good luck.










On 27 Dec 2003 23:51:50 -0800, [email protected] (Chuck Aeric)
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I just received a table saw over the holiday (my first) and would love
>dearly to use it. However, I expect it would be quite loud, and
>somewhat annoying to the people in the upstairs flat. Is there
>anything I can do to reasonably reduce the noise? It is far too cold
>to work outside, unfortunately.
>
>Would enclosing the stand (with adequate ventilation) be of any use?
>Or building a cabinet around it? It won't deaden the sound of the
>cutting action of the blade, but the whine of the motor may be abated,
>somewhat...
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Cheers,
>Chuck

Traves W. Coppock <newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com> wrote:

> very true, almost impossible to quiet a TS down as 99.9% of the noise
> comes from the blade cutting the stock.

Depends on the saw. I have a cheap, small saw, and 99.9% of the noise comes
from turning the universal motor on. That thing is loud as hell, even with
no blade installed. Cutting wood doesn't add much to it.

>>Expect to be sued as well as evicted. An apartment ( flat ) is
>>intended for ' normal ' living... not to be used as a wood shop...
>
> my basement shop was intended for "normal" living, and "normally" i WW
> in there. unless your lease specifically states against it, they
> really cant say much about a hobby, noisy or not. all you really need

Unless your lease specifically states against it, and if it isn't proscribed
by local laws, you can do any damn thing you want.

Who's worse? A guy with a screaming table saw, or a 300-pound fat woman
who's into S&M, and likes to have people slap her with things while she's
suspended from a ceiling sling, screaming "OH GODDDDDDDD OH BEAT
MEEEEEEEEEEEE BEAT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE OH OH OH AH AH AH OH OH OH AH AH AH
HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" at all hours of the night?

Hell, my neighbors were GLAD when I turned the table saw on at 3 AM, just to
drown out that obnoxious thing. :)

>>Time to buy a home ! Good luck.

Or rent a house. I worked out of my rented kitchen for a long time. I
didn't have a table saw at that point, but circular saws are nearly as
noisy, and just as messy.

It was a lot better than living in that apartment below Jabba the Slut. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Hey Chuck,
I just got two Freud Industrial saw blades -- the rip and crosscut (F80)
ones. Used to have the $15 kind of blade. Incredible reduction in noise over
the cheapo blades. Both while not cutting and even more impressible when
cutting. This is on a GI contractor's saw. Might help you.
Caleb

"Chuck Aeric" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> I just received a table saw over the holiday (my first) and would love
> dearly to use it. However, I expect it would be quite loud, and
> somewhat annoying to the people in the upstairs flat. Is there
> anything I can do to reasonably reduce the noise? It is far too cold
> to work outside, unfortunately.
>
> Would enclosing the stand (with adequate ventilation) be of any use?
> Or building a cabinet around it? It won't deaden the sound of the
> cutting action of the blade, but the whine of the motor may be abated,
> somewhat...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck