I sanded down my old musical percussion woodblock from my kit the other
day and I would like to put a hard finish on this thing. Any suggestions?
Being percussive I think a durable finish would be best. It might even
help the sound a bit. I'm also wondering if oiling the wood (with
linseed?) would be better? However I'm a novice in woodworking so I'm not
sure. Any help is appreciated.
Here's a photo of a typical woodblock:
http://camilx2.music.uiuc.edu:16080/classes/243/images/woodblock.gif
http://www.latinpercussion.com/Product_Showcase/Blocks/lp_groove_blocks.html
http://www.latinpercussion.com/Product_Showcase/Blocks/lp_wood_blocks.html
http://www.jhs.co.uk/pped%20web%20images/wb100.jpg
Stan
In article <[email protected]>,
Ron Magen <[email protected]> wrote:
>Robert,
>Yes, I know about 'Babelfish', but I wasn't to interested in translating
>what seemed to be a product advertisement. Hence, the interest in the Penn
>State site.
>
>Thanks for the detailed info / advice.
>
>Correct . . . I'm not really concerned about the 'key' and low tones are
>more in-line with my 'mental ear'. Just something visually pleasing to go
>along with a 'wind bell' that mimics the sound of the Buoy off Bar Harbor.
>
>Regards & Thanks,
>Ron Magen
>Backyard Boatshop
>{for some reason your name rings a bell . . . didn't we 'discuss' some other
>subject about boats & music . . . maybe a year ago ?? }
I dunno. <grin>
I'm known to pontificate on any of a bunch of subjects, at the drop of a
hat.
There aren't a whole lot of Bonomi's in the U.S.
If it had to do with bigger than day-sailer sailboats, there's a good
chance it was my brother, Scott. He lives on a circa 35-footer, in
the S.F. bay area. Has an Earthlink email address.
Robert,
Yes, I know about 'Babelfish', but I wasn't to interested in translating
what seemed to be a product advertisement. Hence, the interest in the Penn
State site.
Thanks for the detailed info / advice.
Correct . . . I'm not really concerned about the 'key' and low tones are
more in-line with my 'mental ear'. Just something visually pleasing to go
along with a 'wind bell' that mimics the sound of the Buoy off Bar Harbor.
Regards & Thanks,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{for some reason your name rings a bell . . . didn't we 'discuss' some other
subject about boats & music . . . maybe a year ago ?? }
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Ron Magen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Stan,
> >I've just been 'involved' with a short thread about wind chimes.
> >
SNIP
> Wood is going to have a lower pitch, given the same dimensions.
> look up 'speed of sound' in various materials, and you'll get a
> good feel for the variation.
>
SNIP
In article <[email protected]>,
Ron Magen <[email protected]> wrote:
>Stan,
>I've just been 'involved' with a short thread about wind chimes.
>
>I'm pretty sure I've either seen, or read, about some made of wood. Being a
>sailor, and for no particular reason, I'd like to make a set from Mahogany
>and/or other nautical' woods.
>
>The first 'site' you listed seemed to confirm the shape/style of what could
>be individual 'pieces' . . . however the German was a problem.
Do you know about the BabelFish ? <http://babelfish.altavista.com>
> The UK site
>presented some items 'Made in USA' which I'll try to pursue. The one site
>which I think was from 'here' {and Penn State, if my interpretation pf ' .
>. psu. . .' is correct}, wouldn't work.
I can confirm that 'psu.EDU' _is_ Penn State University. There are other
'psu.{something}' domains that are not related to the Uni.
>Have you any advice where to look, or should I simply start with the lengths
>& formulas for metal chimes ??
Wood is going to have a lower pitch, given the same dimensions.
look up 'speed of sound' in various materials, and you'll get a
good feel for the variation.
The formulas, essentially, calculate the resonant frequency for a given
length of material, _at_the_speed_of_sound_ in that material. Or,
conversely, the length of material needed for a particular frequency,
given the speed of sound in that material.
Resonances occur at multiples of 1/2 the wavelength, so the math is
very straightforward. speed-of-sound/frequency ==> wavelength.
divide result by 2, and use some multiple of that number.
With wood, things get 'interesting', because the speed of sound in
wood varies -- *RADICALLY* -- depending on the orientation of the
sound-wave, relative to the grain of the wood.
From googling on 'speed of sound in wood', I found the following
'interesting data':
Speed of Sound (in ft/sec.)
Along Fibre: Across Rings: Along Rings:
Acacia 15,467 4,840 4,436
Fir 15,218 4,382 2,572
Beech 10,965 6,028 4,643
Oak 12,662 5,036 4,229
Pine 10,900 4,611 2,605
Elm 14,639 4,916 3,728
Sycamore 15,314 4,567 4,142
Ash 16,677 5,297 2,987
Elder 15,306 4,491 3,423
Aspen 16,677 5,297 2,987
Maple 14,472 5,047 3,401
Poplar 14,052 4,600 3,444
A few comparative numbers for metals:
m/s ft/sec
Iron 5130 16,830
Aluminum 5100 16,732
Brass 4700 15,420
Copper 3560 11,680
Also, if one isn't familiar with it, <http://www.wood-handbook.com> is a
definite keeper for the bookmark collection.
Metals are reasonably homogeneous, and speed-of-sound propagation is
effectively the same 'along', and 'across' the piece. This does *NOT*
hold for wood -- which calls for different proportions for wooden 'chimes'
vs 'metal' ones.
If you're not particular about what 'key' the chimes play in, just using
a similar set of -lengths- of wood will give the same _relative_ pitches.
Stan Mulder wrote:
>
> I sanded down my old musical percussion woodblock from my kit the other
> day and I would like to put a hard finish on this thing. Any suggestions?
> Being percussive I think a durable finish would be best. It might even
> help the sound a bit. I'm also wondering if oiling the wood (with
> linseed?) would be better? However I'm a novice in woodworking so I'm not
> sure. Any help is appreciated.
Thin finish would have least effect on tone. Oil would weigh down the sound,
at least in theory. Consider a hard carnauba wax such as Briwax. Since
you'll be banging the instrument as normal course, you'll want easy maintenance.
Nothing's easier (or faster) to rejuvenate than wax. Shellac or padding
lacquer would be good for similar reasons, if you have a little experience
with the finishes.
Violin makers plane or scrape, never sand. Thought is that sawdust fills
the wood pores, dulling an instrument's sound as surely as it does the
wood's appearance.
> Here's a photo of a typical woodblock:
>
> http://camilx2.music.uiuc.edu:16080/classes/243/images/woodblock.gif
> http://www.latinpercussion.com/Product_Showcase/Blocks/lp_groove_blocks.html
> http://www.latinpercussion.com/Product_Showcase/Blocks/lp_wood_blocks.html
> http://www.jhs.co.uk/pped%20web%20images/wb100.jpg
>
> Stan
Stan,
I've just been 'involved' with a short thread about wind chimes.
I'm pretty sure I've either seen, or read, about some made of wood. Being a
sailor, and for no particular reason, I'd like to make a set from Mahogany
and/or other nautical' woods.
The first 'site' you listed seemed to confirm the shape/style of what could
be individual 'pieces' . . . however the German was a problem. The UK site
presented some items 'Made in USA' which I'll try to pursue. The one site
which I think was from 'here' {and Penn State, if my interpretation pf ' .
. psu. . .' is correct}, wouldn't work.
Have you any advice where to look, or should I simply start with the lengths
& formulas for metal chimes ??
Regards & Thanks,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Stan Mulder" <[email protected]> wrote
Snip...
> If anybody wants a musical wood project, check out some of these
> woodblocks and temple blocks:
>
> Stan
Guessing that a percussive woodblock is something you beat on, it depends on
what you are hitting it with. If it is something that puts a lot of force in
a very small area you probably won't want t surface finish such as varnish
and an oil would be a better bet. If it is something that spreads the force
out a bit then you could probably get away with a varnish.
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
[email protected]
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Stan Mulder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I sanded down my old musical percussion woodblock from my kit the other
> day and I would like to put a hard finish on this thing. Any suggestions?
> Being percussive I think a durable finish would be best. It might even
> help the sound a bit. I'm also wondering if oiling the wood (with
> linseed?) would be better? However I'm a novice in woodworking so I'm not
> sure. Any help is appreciated.
>
> Here's a photo of a typical woodblock:
>
> http://camilx2.music.uiuc.edu:16080/classes/243/images/woodblock.gif
>
http://www.latinpercussion.com/Product_Showcase/Blocks/lp_groove_blocks.html
> http://www.latinpercussion.com/Product_Showcase/Blocks/lp_wood_blocks.html
> http://www.jhs.co.uk/pped%20web%20images/wb100.jpg
>
> Stan
As an update, I went to my Ben Moore store and they had a product by
Howard called "Feed-N-Wax". (I've had good luck with another product by
them.) Feed-N-Wax contains beeswax, orange oil and carnuba wax. It seems
to do a good job. I don't think it has the hard finish you mention.
The text on the bottle says, "A penetrating feeder and preservative for
all furniture finishes and natural woods. Polishes to a soft luster
leaving only the scent of oranges."
As for the acoustic properties of this block, most problems were solved
just by sanding it down. Over the years the wood had become somewhat
"fuzzy" being banged around so much in my trap case. So sanding it ending
with a 220 grit paper made the striking surface hard once again. The wax
will prevent the wood from drying out causing the same thing to happen
again.
If anybody wants a musical wood project, check out some of these
woodblocks and temple blocks:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/predurein/deutsch/claven.htm
http://www.ludwig-drums.com/news/PR2002/images/MapleTempleBlock.jpg
http://classroom.psu.ac.th/users/wkomson/data/western-musuc/CHAINA/Pic%20Chaina/Temple%20blocks%20player.jpg
http://www.caulfieldmusic.com.au/graphics/products/Templeblocks4104800.jpg
http://www.musiccentre.co.uk/drums/toca/toca_bells_and_blocks.htm
http://logosfoundation.org/images/templeblock.jpg
Stan
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 15:44:54 +0000, Ron Magen wrote:
> Stan,
> I've just been 'involved' with a short thread about wind chimes.
>
> I'm pretty sure I've either seen, or read, about some made of wood. Being a
> sailor, and for no particular reason, I'd like to make a set from Mahogany
> and/or other nautical' woods.
>
> The first 'site' you listed seemed to confirm the shape/style of what could
> be individual 'pieces' . . . however the German was a problem. The UK site
> presented some items 'Made in USA' which I'll try to pursue. The one site
> which I think was from 'here' {and Penn State, if my interpretation pf ' .
> . psu. . .' is correct}, wouldn't work.
>
> Have you any advice where to look, or should I simply start with the lengths
> & formulas for metal chimes ??
I think a wood wind chime is a great idea. I've never built one but check
out the videos of this drummer (bottom of page). He's got some nice wood
sounds in this performance: http://www.bartelliott.com/demo.html
Check his equipment page as well because he lists the origins of the
various ethnic percussion.
For mathematical formulas, I believe there are some but I don't know
what they are. The general idea is to string percussion in the place that
preserves resonance. Look for the "sweet spot," the place that sounds the
best. For example, look at these photos and notice where the suspension
rope goes through each of the keys:
http://www.karoline-hoefler.de/karo_dat/karo_bil/tribute.jpg
http://www.hmtrad.com/catalog/percussion/images/balaphone1.jpg
http://www.hmtrad.com/catalog/percussion/images/balaphone2.jpg
This idea of where to place the string to enhance resonance may not be as
important for wood as it is for metal chimes.
Here are some links for ideas:
http://www.lpmusic.com/Product_Showcase/Chimes/index.html
http://larkinthemorning.com/product.asp?pn=PER150
http://larkinthemorning.com/product.asp?pn=BON018
http://user.cavenet.com/dims/windchimes.html
http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_pages/0001-0402-1823-5827.html
Stan
>
> Regards & Thanks,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
>
> "Stan Mulder" <[email protected]> wrote
> Snip...
>> If anybody wants a musical wood project, check out some of these
>> woodblocks and temple blocks:
>>
>> Stan
I wanted to add that its been about 24 hours since adding several coats of
this Feed-N-Wax wood feeder to the woodblock and the difference in the
sound is like night and day. The block has a sharp cutting tone once
again typical of the "softshoe" sound of old. So this project has been
a success. Two steps: sand thoroughly and then treat with a
beeswax/carnuba mixture.
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:01:45 +0000, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> Resonances occur at multiples of 1/2 the wavelength, so the math is
> very straightforward. speed-of-sound/frequency ==> wavelength.
> divide result by 2, and use some multiple of that number.
Take an ordinary vibraphone. Place your finger lightly on the middle of
one of the low notes. Hit the key hard directly over the suspension cord
and you get a note two octaves above the fundamental.
Here's some of the math for vibrating chimes:
http://www.geocities.com/teeley2/chimeart.html
From the article:
When a chime is struck, it vibrates along its entire length in a sort of
standing wave, but it's so small you can't see it with the naked eye. The
wave has a mirror image of itself so it crosses itself at two specific
points on the chime. Look at the illustration below. It's not exact, but
it will give you an idea of what's happening when the chime is struck.
These spots are 22.4% from either end. It is here that there is virtually
no vibration and we call these places the nodes of fundamental frequency.
It doesn't matter which node you use to drill your holes, either node will
perform the same way.