Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for Rockler
Woodworking.
As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
conducting a research project for a class. The project uses this
survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey should
require less than five minutes of your time. Your efforts will help
the team meet the requirements of the class. In addition, your
comments could help the manufacturer better meet your woodworking
needs.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=96970501572
On 26 May 2004 11:03:19 -0700, [email protected] (Franklin Univ
Student) wrote:
Most manufacturers are not interested in our need, but rather how to make more
money for their CEO and Delta is the latest example.
Having say that, there is exception: Lee Valley a company that many of us
trusted and respected here.
>Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for Rockler
>Woodworking.
>
>As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
>conducting a research project for a class. The project uses this
>survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey should
>require less than five minutes of your time. Your efforts will help
>the team meet the requirements of the class. In addition, your
>comments could help the manufacturer better meet your woodworking
>needs.
>
>http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=96970501572
On Wed, 26 May 2004 16:06:42 -0700, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>I smell SPAMMMM!
They smell $$$$$$$$$$$
Sad part is that this email did not originate from any educational
institution.
It came directly from Franklin International the makers of this HIPURFormer
CRAP.
A few things can be learned from this.
1. The company has absolutely no integrity at all. To actually try to
deceive people into thinking they were someone else. (I am sure it is
illegal somewhere). Might be
worth while to send an email off to [email protected] and let them
know of Franklin internationals fraud. (I already did and encourage you to
as well).
2. Could you really believe any claim that this company makes about their
products, after seeing this scam?
3. They must not be too bright over there at Franklin International as to
think that people would believe this crap, or maybe they are just looking
for these type of suckers to buy their products.
IF YOU REALLY hate to see this type of CRAP, I would suggest that we all go
over to :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-8046604-3693741
and give each of their products a review. :)~
Roger
"Franklin Univ Student" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for Rockler
> Woodworking.
>
> As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
> conducting a research project for a class. The project uses this
> survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey should
> require less than five minutes of your time. Your efforts will help
> the team meet the requirements of the class. In addition, your
> comments could help the manufacturer better meet your woodworking
> needs.
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=96970501572
Did not know that they made Titebond as well. Might be a change in my
spending habits.....
Kind of insulting to think that Franklin international would think so little
of it's customers.
Roger.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Dave Hinz
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:55:57 -0400, Roger L <rogerl@NOSSSPAM> wrote:
> >> Sad part is that this email did not originate from any educational
> >> institution.
> >> It came directly from Franklin International the makers of this
HIPURFormer
> >> CRAP.
>
> True enough. Following is excerpted from the headers:
>
> From: [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student)
> Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
> Subject: Woodworking Adhesive Survey
> Date: 26 May 2004 11:03:19 -0700
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.211.171.194
>
> and...
>
> nslookup 209.211.171.194
> mail.franklininternational.com
>
> >Good to know, I'll avoid their product as a result of their actions.
>
> Just FYI, Franklin International is the manufacturer of Titebond.
>
> Lots of email addresses to send complaints to here:
> http://www.franklininternational.com/ContactPolyCO.htm
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
> send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
> You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
>
>
Hopefully people can refer back to this pure crap, next time someone
recommends Titebond here on the forum.
Heck if they are dumb enough to pull something like this, spew lies, etc;
what does that tell you about their product?
Roger
"Roger L" <rogerl@[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Did not know that they made Titebond as well. Might be a change in my
> spending habits.....
> Kind of insulting to think that Franklin international would think so
little
> of it's customers.
>
> Roger.
>
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Dave Hinz
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:55:57 -0400, Roger L <rogerl@NOSSSPAM> wrote:
> > >> Sad part is that this email did not originate from any educational
> > >> institution.
> > >> It came directly from Franklin International the makers of this
> HIPURFormer
> > >> CRAP.
> >
> > True enough. Following is excerpted from the headers:
> >
> > From: [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student)
> > Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
> > Subject: Woodworking Adhesive Survey
> > Date: 26 May 2004 11:03:19 -0700
> > Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.211.171.194
> >
> > and...
> >
> > nslookup 209.211.171.194
> > mail.franklininternational.com
> >
> > >Good to know, I'll avoid their product as a result of their actions.
> >
> > Just FYI, Franklin International is the manufacturer of Titebond.
> >
> > Lots of email addresses to send complaints to here:
> > http://www.franklininternational.com/ContactPolyCO.htm
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
> >
> > For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
> > send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
> > You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
> >
> >
>
>
John makes some good arguments but...
If it quacks like a duck......... it is fraud.
I had tried to ask the student, but the email bounces. So much for
confirming this part.... Strange that a graduate student cannot spell
"campus".
Did John actually look at the survey? Does it look like graduate work?
Looks more like a junior high type survey; if even that.
Not sure why Franklin International would need to allow Usenet access, as
the claimed student simply posted it through Google news groups. Are you
suggesting that a university did not have access to Google, so Franklin
International offered them access to Google? Than again a University with
four campuses and a graduate course in computer science, might not have
access to Google, and a glue manufacture did. Than again it might be fraud.
Webster defines fraud as :
2 a : a person who is not what he or she pretends to be : IMPOSTOR; also :
one who defrauds : CHEAT b : one that is not what it seems or is represented
to be
Than again stranger things have happened. I am sure that if we are all
wrong, than the original student will post his real name from a real
Franklin University address, along with the people in his group. Better
yet, we might even learn the professors name, that imposed such an
assignment. Or better yet Franklin International can confirm the student,
etc....
If not we can fall back on my opening statement.
Myself and others do think it is important... as we are all tired of
deception and fraud, spewed daily by corporations.
Roger
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> dave in fairfax wrote:
>
> > John wrote:
> >> Well, there IS a Franklin University, established 1902 (see
> >> www.franklin.edu)
> >> That is NOT to say that this study was or was not done for the
> >> Franklin International folks, but I really doubt that this is fraud
> >
> > Let's see. If they say it's for a survey and they're using it for
> > maketing that's procuring something of worth under false
> > pretences. If it was sent from the company pretending to be the
> > university, that's an obvious fraud. Can you have corporate
> > identity theft? They pretended to be a student. If it was done
> > by the company, that's another fraud, unless the corporate person
> > is enrolled, not too likely. Looks like fraud to me. That's what
> > it said in my letter to them, among other things.
> >
> > Dave in Fairfax
>
> Did you _ask_ the guy what his relationship was with Franklin
International
> before flying off the handle? He could be a Franklin employee taking
> graduate courses, he could be doing sponsored research, he could be the
> CEO's kid, Franklin International could be providing USENET access for
the
> school through their servers, you just don't have enough information to be
> able to conclude that anything shady has occurred, all you know for sure
is
> that he posted through a host that is registered to the company.
>
> And if you think that this is a matter of any real importance, then quite
> frankly you need to get your priorities straight.
>
> --
> --John
> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
I want to post here to see if this student replies again..
Testing....
Roger
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Franklin Univ Student wrote:
>
> > Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for
> > Rockler Woodworking.
> >
> > As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
> > conducting a research project for a class. The project uses
> > this survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey
> > should require less than five minutes of your time. Your
> > efforts will help the team meet the requirements of the class.
> > In addition, your comments could help the manufacturer better
> > meet your woodworking needs.
>
> I've been using Titebond glue for a long time. I like that the
> behavior has been consistant and dependable; and that I've not
> ever even heard of a bad batch. Less than eight hours before this
> posting appeared, I was at the store replenishing my supply.
>
> I recall recent posts quoting letters of assistance from Franklin
> (the glue folks, not the university) written to help ordinary
> woodworkers understand clamping requirements.
>
> None of the above is the kind of behavior I'd expect from a
> deceitful organization.
>
> This poster made the unwise decision to not reveal his/her
> employment relationship with the manufacturer - and (one would
> hope) has acquired even more education than expected; and (one
> would hope again) accrued a bit of wisdom that should prove
> useful in a marketing career.
>
> [For the MRT-601 class (and instructor): Sometimes it's wiser to
> accept that results are biased; and that it may be necessary to
> go through additional effort to quantify that bias so that the
> biased results can be properly normalized.]
>
> I plan to keep on using Franklin products as long as they're of
> consistant high quality, are priced affordably, and are readily
> available.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>
Sounds like the only "graduate student" that has posted in this thread. :)
Roger
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Franklin Univ Student wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the advice. We just wanted unbiased opinion.
>
> You must be a young person. In my warmest grandfatherly manner,
> let me share some possibly useful lessons:
>
> [1] There are no unbiased opinions.
>
> [2] Deception (lying, withholding an essential part of a truth in
> order to deceive, or providing a carefully selected set of truths
> in order to lead someone to an incorrect conclusion) violates
> most peoples' sense of "trustworthy".
>
> [3] Nearly all people subscribe to the principles embodied in the
> Boy Scouts' "Scout Law" (trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
> courteous, kind, ...) and afford to others a standing that
> correlates fairly closely to their perception of the other person
> conducting themselves in accordance with those principles.
>
> [4] Commercial endeavors are measured similarly; and standings
> are based additionally on perceptions of value delivered for
> price asked, behavior of the business organization as a whole,
> and behavior of all individuals involved in the business.
>
> [5] Although not specifically mentioned in [3] and [4], the
> principles of justice (balanced behavior and exchanges) and
> fairness (equability) are major factors in standing afforded.
>
> [6] The perception is that you were attempting to deceive the
> rec.woodworking *community*; and this community perceives
> deceivers as economic and/or safety threats.
>
> [7] Woodworking is closely related to the craft that gave us the
> English word "sincere"; and sincerity is highly valued by those
> who practice this craft. We especially value those community
> members whose works (and lives!) need no "spackle" (DAGS).
>
> I'm reponding with all of this because I'm inclined to believe
> that your /intention/ wasn't dishonest; and that your behavior
> was clumsy rather than despicable.
>
> My perception is that marketing folks have a tendancy to get so
> wrapped up with numbers that they forget that those numbers
> represent real warm, breathing, feeling, thinking human beings.
>
> My unsolicited opinion: Anyone (in any field) who forgets that
> fact can only aspire to being a "hack" (a second-rater) and will
> not ever be able to produce really first class results. You may
> have a different opinion; but please at least ask yourself: "What
> if he's right about that?"
>
> Elsethread you asked the purpose of the group. The group is a
> community with several purposes: to teach and pass on experience,
> to learn from the experience of others, and to provide a certain
> amount of social interchange and mutual support between people
> with a common interest in woodworking. It's not just about tools
> and sawdust.
>
> All of the above is ( biased :-) opinion.
>
> HTH
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>
"Trent©" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Sorry some people here jumped down your throat. There was nothing
> wrong with your post...especially considering the expected learning
> experience you anticipated on your end.
>
> UNexpectedly...and this is probably a GOOD thing...you got responses
> that you had NOT anticipated. Don't take that as anything negative,
> however. It should actually aid you in your future studies.
That does not change the fact that the survey sucked. It was not set up
properly and therefore the result is meaningless. Give a negative to
question #3 and the rest of the questions should be invalidated.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
On 28 May 2004 10:47:27 -0700, [email protected] (Franklin
Univ Student) wrote:
>Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
>Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am
>taking in the graduate school program. When the instructor for the
>course (Marketing Research and Theory, 601), handed out the assignment
>to prepare a survey, she recommended we do the survey on behalf of one
>of the companies for which the team members work to imitate a
>real-world situation. Because I am an employee at Franklin
>International, I suggested doing the survey on our HiPURformer
>product. The group agreed that this would be an interested project on
>which to do the survey. I worked on the survey on-line from home, I
>happened to posted the survey on the web from work. As you saw in the
>instructions, we were up front in indicating that the responses to the
>survey would be shared with the manufacturer of HiPURformer. (We
>didn't indicate who the manufacturer was only because we felt that
>would sway the results of the survey.)
>
>I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
>tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
>for woodworkers. It is for you that Franklin International works. The
>Masters program at Franklin University is aware of this research and
>supports it fully. Thank you.
May I suggest that your company manufacture a new product...just for
some of the folks in this group.
Call it...TiteAss II lol
Sorry some people here jumped down your throat. There was nothing
wrong with your post...especially considering the expected learning
experience you anticipated on your end.
UNexpectedly...and this is probably a GOOD thing...you got responses
that you had NOT anticipated. Don't take that as anything negative,
however. It should actually aid you in your future studies.
Good luck...and good initiative!!
Remember to honor our troops...past and present.
And have a nice Memorial Day weekend.
Trent©
In article <[email protected]>, Edwin
Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> May I suggest you ask for a refund of your tuition as you evidently have not
> learned much as Franklin U. Good old FU! All you need now is some common
> sense.
And the ability to produce a web site that works with any browser...
It doesn't even work with *Exploder* on the Mac.
<jed_clampett>Piiiteefull....</jed_clampett>
Wed, May 26, 2004, 11:03am (EDT-3) [email protected]
(Franklin=A0Univ=A0Student) clams:
Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for Rockler
Woodworking.
I'd only want to do it, If the gift certificate was for me.
As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are conducting
a research project for a class.
Who's "we", what's the research project, in what class?
The project uses this survey to find out what woodworkers like you.
Why are you interested in finding out what ones like me? What if
some don't like me? Does that count too?
This survey should require less than five minutes of your time.
Sorry, this is sucking up the 5 minutes.
Your efforts will help the team meet the requirements of the class.
See 2d comment.
In addition, your comments could help the manufacturer better meet your
woodworking needs.
If the manufacturer wants to better meet my woodworking needs, I
would like a jointer, wood is always welcome, but mostly I could really
use a larger shop.
Of course the subject does say something about an adhesive survey.
Hmm, wonder if you meant my comments could help the manufacturer better
meet my adhesive needs? Nah, a college grad student, not writing, or
expressing him/her self clearly, never happen.
JOAT
"106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of
cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood
"Hit it." - Joliet Jake
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
> conducting a research project for a class. The project uses this
> survey ...
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=96970501572
>
Let's see. You're students at FU, but your survey is hosted at a
.com site? And you're posting via something called LCI inc in
Denver?
I smell SPAMMMM!
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:55:57 -0400, Roger L <rogerl@NOSSSPAM> wrote:
> Sad part is that this email did not originate from any educational
> institution.
> It came directly from Franklin International the makers of this HIPURFormer
> CRAP.
God to know, I'll avoid their product as a result of their actions.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
> Franklin University, and this survey is, ...
And how many times are you going to repeat this? We all saw it
the first time :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
On 28 May 2004 10:47:27 -0700, Franklin Univ Student <[email protected]> wrote:
> Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
> Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am
OK, that's 7 times.
In article <[email protected]>, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:55:57 -0400, Roger L <rogerl@NOSSSPAM> wrote:
>> Sad part is that this email did not originate from any educational
>> institution.
>> It came directly from Franklin International the makers of this HIPURFormer
>> CRAP.
True enough. Following is excerpted from the headers:
From: [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Woodworking Adhesive Survey
Date: 26 May 2004 11:03:19 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.211.171.194
and...
nslookup 209.211.171.194
mail.franklininternational.com
>Good to know, I'll avoid their product as a result of their actions.
Just FYI, Franklin International is the manufacturer of Titebond.
Lots of email addresses to send complaints to here:
http://www.franklininternational.com/ContactPolyCO.htm
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
John wrote:
> Well, there IS a Franklin University, established 1902 (see
> www.franklin.edu)
> That is NOT to say that this study was or was not done for the
> Franklin International folks, but I really doubt that this is fraud
Let's see. If they say it's for a survey and they're using it for
maketing that's procuring something of worth under false
pretences. If it was sent from the company pretending to be the
university, that's an obvious fraud. Can you have corporate
identity theft? They pretended to be a student. If it was done
by the company, that's another fraud, unless the corporate person
is enrolled, not too likely. Looks like fraud to me. That's what
it said in my letter to them, among other things.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
"J. Clarke" wrote:
> Did you _ask_ the guy what his relationship was with Franklin International
> before flying off the handle? He could be a Franklin employee taking
> graduate courses, he could be doing sponsored research, he could be the
> CEO's kid, Franklin International could be providing USENET access for the
> school through their servers, you just don't have enough information to be
> able to conclude that anything shady has occurred, all you know for sure is
> that he posted through a host that is registered to the company.
I informed them of what had happened and that if, indeed it was
done by them that it was inappropriate as well as a bad marketing
idea. The first paragraph was designed to make them aware that it
had happened either with or without their knowledge and that they
needed to address the situation, both internally and publicly. I
did not "fly off the handle". I reported the problem to the
person in charge of marketing and to the VP in charge of
adhesives.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
Franklin Univ Student wrote:
> Thank you John for suggesting doing your homework before you assume the worst.
I will NOT be taking the survey. Why? It sounded fishy from the get-go. Then all
heck broke out and it got worse. I have read every reply including all of the OP's
weak replies. It still does not wash with me. In my opinion it was a dumb thing for
the OP to post into this fine group the way he did. Perhaps he will add all of this
to his final report or product. Who here would ever trust any survey results done
anywhere and posted by Franklin? Not me !
I use their products because they work for me. That will not change.
Hoyt W.
Bay Area Dave wrote:
<snipity snip>
> BTW, Hoyt, you never got back to me on your reasons for
> wanting me to email you. Did you REALLY have something
> personal to discuss? You ignored my previous request for
> clarification. If you keep ignoring my questions, I'll
> assume you have no good answers; especially when the
> question was asked only in response to your curiously odd
> post to "Bay Area Dave"...
>
> dave
That was not intentional Dave. I forgot the topic. Please send me a personal message to
my valid address above and we will go over that topic again - whatever it may have been.
Your posted address does not appear to be valid. Otherwise I would have sent you a
private msg.
Hoyt W.
"J. Clarke" wrote:
> And then you came here and started making wild accusations.
I ran whois on both places. They came back to different DNSs.
The OP said he was from one and posted from the other. The OP
admits that he failed to admit to his affiliation, that was the
cause of my, as well as others, suspicion. I made no wild
accusations. Since the OP has explained his affiliation, perhaps
this thread can now end.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
On Fri, 28 May 2004 09:02:47 -0700, Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> stated wide-eyed, with arms akimbo:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>> Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
>> Franklin University, and this survey is, ...
>
>And how many times are you going to repeat this? We all saw it
>the first time :-).
Did you see the survey? I'd have guessed much younger (jr. high
level?) and less-experienced researchers by the content and flow.
[Best of luck to the FU'ers. They'll certainly need it.]
-
Yea, though I walk through the valley of Minwax, I shall stain no Cherry.
http://diversify.com
dave in fairfax <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> John wrote:
> > Well, there IS a Franklin University, established 1902 (see
> > www.franklin.edu)
> > That is NOT to say that this study was or was not done for the
> > Franklin International folks, but I really doubt that this is fraud
>
> Let's see. If they say it's for a survey and they're using it for
> maketing that's procuring something of worth under false
> pretences. If it was sent from the company pretending to be the
> university, that's an obvious fraud. Can you have corporate
> identity theft? They pretended to be a student. If it was done
> by the company, that's another fraud, unless the corporate person
> is enrolled, not too likely. Looks like fraud to me. That's what
> it said in my letter to them, among other things.
>
> Dave in Fairfax
Let's see, according to the website, Franklin International is located
in Columbus, OH. Franklin University on the other hand is located
in....... Columbus, OH. What are the possibilities that some students
at Franklin University could be doing a project in cooperation with a
local company that bears a strikingly similar name and may actually
sponser some stuff at Franklin University? Anyone on this list ever do
a group class project in college? Did you by chance have to pick some
real world entity or situation so that the project had some degree of
reality to it, not just some professor's excercise? I know that I did
such a project in grad school. I pity the poor corporation that
actually relies on the results of such projects, but the managers
probably met some of their community service requirements by spending
a few hours "helping" these students. Looks good at the next
performance review with the boss. May have even provided some server
space and bandwidth.
On the other hand ...maybe not.
Dave Hall
On Sat, 29 May 2004 03:18:22 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>"Trent©" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> Sorry some people here jumped down your throat. There was nothing
>> wrong with your post...especially considering the expected learning
>> experience you anticipated on your end.
>>
>> UNexpectedly...and this is probably a GOOD thing...you got responses
>> that you had NOT anticipated. Don't take that as anything negative,
>> however. It should actually aid you in your future studies.
>
>That does not change the fact that the survey sucked. It was not set up
>properly and therefore the result is meaningless. Give a negative to
>question #3 and the rest of the questions should be invalidated.
>Ed
>[email protected]
>http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
I couldn't get to the survey, Ed. I'd been taken off by the time I
got there.
But I got the impression that they didn't actually set up the format
for the survey. It looked like they were locked in to the format of
that site.
Remember to honor our troops...past and present.
And have a nice Memorial Day weekend.
Trent©
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student) wrote:
>Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
>Franklin University,
Uh-huh. And I'm the King of Siam.
The relevant header on this one is the same as on the spam:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.211.171.194
In other words, you're *still* posting from inside Franklin International's
network.
[snip]
>
>I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
>tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
>for woodworkers.
Yeah, right. Your regard for us is so high that you think none of us are able
to see through this smoke screen.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student) wrote:
>There is no "smoke screen", this is a student project
We have only your word for that. At best, it's a student project doing
undisclosed double duty as a marketing survey; at worst, it's a marketing
survey masquerading as a student project.
>and it clearly
>states in the opening of the survey that the results may be sharred
>with the manufacturer. There is no conspiracy.
However, it does *not* state that you are an employee of Franklin
International, an affiliation which you deliberately concealed.
You're in a hole, Vince. It's time to stop digging.
>
>
>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student) wrote:
>> >Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
>> >Franklin University,
>>
>> Uh-huh. And I'm the King of Siam.
>>
>> The relevant header on this one is the same as on the spam:
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.211.171.194
>>
>> In other words, you're *still* posting from inside Franklin International's
>> network.
>>
>> [snip]
>> >
>> >I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
>> >tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
>> >for woodworkers.
>>
>> Yeah, right. Your regard for us is so high that you think none of us are able
>
>> to see through this smoke screen.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
"Franklin Univ Student" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for Rockler
> Woodworking.
>
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=96970501572
How about you pay me 50 bucks to fix your survey? It is one of the dumbest
I've ever seen.
Question:
Are you aware of our (named) product?
Answer: No
Next Question:
What do you think is a fair price for it?
Answer: I can't answer. How the hell can I just a fair price if I don't
have a clue what you are talking about.
May I suggest you ask for a refund of your tuition as you evidently have not
learned much as Franklin U. Good old FU! All you need now is some common
sense.
Ed
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:3Artc.15369
>
> True enough. Following is excerpted from the headers:
>
> From: [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student)
> Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
> Subject: Woodworking Adhesive Survey
> Date: 26 May 2004 11:03:19 -0700
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.211.171.194
>
> and...
>
> nslookup 209.211.171.194
> mail.franklininternational.com
Makes you wonder if they are deceitful in all their advertising.
Ed
Morris Dovey wrote:
>
>
> You must be a young person.
Must be.
> My perception is that marketing folks have a tendancy to get so wrapped
> up with numbers that they forget that those numbers represent real warm,
> breathing, feeling, thinking human beings.
What? Those numbers are actually people? I sort of knew that but it's easier to
think of them as mindless masses to be manipulated.
>
> My unsolicited opinion: Anyone (in any field) who forgets that fact can
> only aspire to being a "hack" (a second-rater) and will not ever be able
> to produce really first class results. You may have a different opinion;
> but please at least ask yourself: "What if he's right about that?"
A youngster isn't inclined to ask such questions.
And us being mindless masses, who are we to question those trying to climb the
ivory tower? Don't we know we're to be thrilled that someone of such stature has
tried to harvest information from us?
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice
there is.
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
dave in fairfax wrote:
> John wrote:
>> Well, there IS a Franklin University, established 1902 (see
>> www.franklin.edu)
>> That is NOT to say that this study was or was not done for the
>> Franklin International folks, but I really doubt that this is fraud
>
> Let's see. If they say it's for a survey and they're using it for
> maketing that's procuring something of worth under false
> pretences. If it was sent from the company pretending to be the
> university, that's an obvious fraud. Can you have corporate
> identity theft? They pretended to be a student. If it was done
> by the company, that's another fraud, unless the corporate person
> is enrolled, not too likely. Looks like fraud to me. That's what
> it said in my letter to them, among other things.
>
> Dave in Fairfax
Did you _ask_ the guy what his relationship was with Franklin International
before flying off the handle? He could be a Franklin employee taking
graduate courses, he could be doing sponsored research, he could be the
CEO's kid, Franklin International could be providing USENET access for the
school through their servers, you just don't have enough information to be
able to conclude that anything shady has occurred, all you know for sure is
that he posted through a host that is registered to the company.
And if you think that this is a matter of any real importance, then quite
frankly you need to get your priorities straight.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Roger L wrote:
> John makes some good arguments but...
>
> If it quacks like a duck......... it is fraud.
>
> I had tried to ask the student, but the email bounces.
The email bounces? Have you reported to the postmaster that someone is
forging an address on his system?
> So much for
> confirming this part.... Strange that a graduate student cannot spell
> "campus".
What makes you think he was trying to spell "campus"? And did you email the
address he gave or did you correct the spelling?
> Did John actually look at the survey? Does it look like graduate work?
> Looks more like a junior high type survey; if even that.
Everybody starts somewhere--could be an engineer taking his first marketing
course.
> Not sure why Franklin International would need to allow Usenet access as
> the claimed student simply posted it through Google news groups. Are you
> suggesting that a university did not have access to Google, so Franklin
> International offered them access to Google? Than again a University with
> four campuses and a graduate course in computer science, might not have
> access to Google, and a glue manufacture did. Than again it might be
> fraud.
If it didn't go through Franklin's mail server then what the Hell are you
bitching at _them_ about? If it _did_ then how did the marketing
department get authority to run a browser on the mail server? And why was
that reported as the nntp-posting-host rather than Google?
> Webster defines fraud as :
>
> 2 a : a person who is not what he or she pretends to be : IMPOSTOR; also :
> one who defrauds : CHEAT b : one that is not what it seems or is
> represented to be
>
>
> Than again stranger things have happened. I am sure that if we are all
> wrong, than the original student will post his real name from a real
> Franklin University address, along with the people in his group. Better
> yet, we might even learn the professors name, that imposed such an
> assignment. Or better yet Franklin International can confirm the student,
> etc....
>
> If not we can fall back on my opening statement.
>
> Myself and others do think it is important... as we are all tired of
> deception and fraud, spewed daily by corporations.
Yep, priorities all messed up. If this was _really_ important to you you'd
be a lawyer going after the Enrons rather than whining on USENET about some
twit taking a survey.
If you can't take effective action that will result in change then forget
about it and go on with life. If you can take effective action that will
result in change then take it.
> Roger
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> dave in fairfax wrote:
>>
>> > John wrote:
>> >> Well, there IS a Franklin University, established 1902 (see
>> >> www.franklin.edu)
>> >> That is NOT to say that this study was or was not done for the
>> >> Franklin International folks, but I really doubt that this is fraud
>> >
>> > Let's see. If they say it's for a survey and they're using it for
>> > maketing that's procuring something of worth under false
>> > pretences. If it was sent from the company pretending to be the
>> > university, that's an obvious fraud. Can you have corporate
>> > identity theft? They pretended to be a student. If it was done
>> > by the company, that's another fraud, unless the corporate person
>> > is enrolled, not too likely. Looks like fraud to me. That's what
>> > it said in my letter to them, among other things.
>> >
>> > Dave in Fairfax
>>
>> Did you _ask_ the guy what his relationship was with Franklin
> International
>> before flying off the handle? He could be a Franklin employee taking
>> graduate courses, he could be doing sponsored research, he could be the
>> CEO's kid, Franklin International could be providing USENET access for
> the
>> school through their servers, you just don't have enough information to
>> be able to conclude that anything shady has occurred, all you know for
>> sure
> is
>> that he posted through a host that is registered to the company.
>>
>> And if you think that this is a matter of any real importance, then quite
>> frankly you need to get your priorities straight.
>>
>> --
>> --John
>> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
>> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
dave in fairfax wrote:
> "J. Clarke" wrote:
>> Did you _ask_ the guy what his relationship was with Franklin
>> International
>> before flying off the handle? He could be a Franklin employee taking
>> graduate courses, he could be doing sponsored research, he could be the
>> CEO's kid, Franklin International could be providing USENET access for
>> the school through their servers, you just don't have enough information
>> to be able to conclude that anything shady has occurred, all you know for
>> sure is that he posted through a host that is registered to the company.
>
> I informed them of what had happened and that if, indeed it was
> done by them that it was inappropriate as well as a bad marketing
> idea. The first paragraph was designed to make them aware that it
> had happened either with or without their knowledge and that they
> needed to address the situation, both internally and publicly. I
> did not "fly off the handle". I reported the problem to the
> person in charge of marketing and to the VP in charge of
> adhesives.
And then you came here and started making wild accusations.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On 1 Jun 2004 13:33:51 -0700, [email protected] (Franklin
Univ Student) wrote:
>There is no "smoke screen", this is a student project and it clearly
>states in the opening of the survey that the results may be sharred
>with the manufacturer. There is no conspiracy.
>
You haven't been here long enough to understand Doug's personality.
Trust me...you should just move on! lol
Have a nice week...
Trent©
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
I want to clear up any confusion about this survey.
Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am
taking in the graduate school program. When the instructor for the
course (Marketing Research and Theory, 601), handed out the assignment
to prepare a survey, she recommended we do the survey on behalf of one
of the companies for which the team members work to imitate a
real-world situation. Because I am an employee at Franklin
International, I suggested doing the survey on our HiPURformer
product. The group agreed that this would be an interested project on
which to do the survey. I worked on the survey on-line from home, I
happened to posted the survey on the web from work. As you saw in the
instructions, we were up front in indicating that the responses to the
survey would be shared with the manufacturer of HiPURformer. (We
didn't indicate who the manufacturer was only because we felt that
would sway the results of the survey.)
I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
for woodworkers. It is for you that Franklin International works. The
Masters program at Franklin University is aware of this research and
supports it fully. Thank you.
"Roger L" <rogerl@[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Sad part is that this email did not originate from any educational
> institution.
> It came directly from Franklin International the makers of this HIPURFormer
> CRAP.
>
> A few things can be learned from this.
>
> 1. The company has absolutely no integrity at all. To actually try to
> deceive people into thinking they were someone else. (I am sure it is
> illegal somewhere). Might be
> worth while to send an email off to [email protected] and let them
> know of Franklin internationals fraud. (I already did and encourage you to
> as well).
>
> 2. Could you really believe any claim that this company makes about their
> products, after seeing this scam?
>
> 3. They must not be too bright over there at Franklin International as to
> think that people would believe this crap, or maybe they are just looking
> for these type of suckers to buy their products.
>
> IF YOU REALLY hate to see this type of CRAP, I would suggest that we all go
> over to :
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-8046604-3693741
>
> and give each of their products a review. :)~
>
>
> Roger
>
> "Franklin Univ Student" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for Rockler
> > Woodworking.
> >
> > As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
> > conducting a research project for a class. The project uses this
> > survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey should
> > require less than five minutes of your time. Your efforts will help
> > the team meet the requirements of the class. In addition, your
> > comments could help the manufacturer better meet your woodworking
> > needs.
> >
> > http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=96970501572
Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am
taking in the graduate school program. When the instructor for the
course (Marketing Research and Theory, 601), handed out the assignment
to prepare a survey, she recommended we do the survey on behalf of one
of the companies for which the team members work to imitate a
real-world situation. Because I am an employee at Franklin
International, I suggested doing the survey on our HiPURformer
product. The group agreed that this would be an interested project on
which to do the survey. I worked on the survey on-line from home, I
happened to posted the survey on the web from work. As you saw in the
instructions, we were up front in indicating that the responses to the
survey would be shared with the manufacturer of HiPURformer. (We
didn't indicate who the manufacturer was only because we felt that
would sway the results of the survey.)
I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
for woodworkers. It is for you that Franklin International works. The
Masters program at Franklin University is aware of this research and
supports it fully. Thank you.
Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am
taking in the graduate school program. When the instructor for the
course (Marketing Research and Theory, 601), handed out the assignment
to prepare a survey, she recommended we do the survey on behalf of one
of the companies for which the team members work to imitate a
real-world situation. Because I am an employee at Franklin
International, I suggested doing the survey on our HiPURformer
product. The group agreed that this would be an interested project on
which to do the survey. I worked on the survey on-line from home, I
happened to posted the survey on the web from work. As you saw in the
instructions, we were up front in indicating that the responses to the
survey would be shared with the manufacturer of HiPURformer. (We
didn't indicate who the manufacturer was only because we felt that
would sway the results of the survey.)
I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
for woodworkers. It is for you that Franklin International works. The
Masters program at Franklin University is aware of this research and
supports it fully. Thank you.
Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am
taking in the graduate school program. (Marketing Research and Theory,
601)
I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
for woodworkers. It is for you that Franklin International works. The
Masters program at Franklin University is aware of this research and
supports it fully. Thank you.
Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am
taking in the graduate school program. When the instructor for the
course (Marketing Research and Theory, 601), handed out the assignment
to prepare a survey, she recommended we do the survey on behalf of one
of the companies for which the team members work to imitate a
real-world situation. Because I am an employee at Franklin
International, I suggested doing the survey on our HiPURformer
product. The group agreed that this would be an interested project on
which to do the survey. I worked on the survey on-line from home, I
happened to posted the survey on the web from work. As you saw in the
instructions, we were up front in indicating that the responses to the
survey would be shared with the manufacturer of HiPURformer. (We
didn't indicate who the manufacturer was only because we felt that
would sway the results of the survey.)
I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
for woodworkers. It is for you that Franklin International works. The
Masters program at Franklin University is aware of this research and
supports it fully. Thank you.
Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am
taking in the graduate school program. When the instructor for the
course (Marketing Research and Theory, 601), handed out the assignment
to prepare a survey, she recommended we do the survey on behalf of one
of the companies for which the team members work to imitate a
real-world situation. Because I am an employee at Franklin
International, I suggested doing the survey on our HiPURformer
product. The group agreed that this would be an interested project on
which to do the survey. I worked on the survey on-line from home, I
happened to posted the survey on the web from work. As you saw in the
instructions, we were up front in indicating that the responses to the
survey would be shared with the manufacturer of HiPURformer. (We
didn't indicate who the manufacturer was only because we felt that
would sway the results of the survey.)
I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
for woodworkers. It is for you that Franklin International works. The
Masters program at Franklin University is aware of this research and
supports it fully. Thank you.
Fri, May 28, 2004, 10:48am (EDT-3) [email protected]
(Franklin=A0Univ=A0Student) puts out:
Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student <snip>
I happened to posted the survey on the web from work. <snip> The Masters
program at Franklin University is aware of this research and supports it
fully
"I happened to posted"? ROTFLMAO
A graduate student, eh? What grade? I didn't look at your survey.
Why? At least partly, because you could not express youself clearly in
writing. You didn't even come close. So, knew the "survey" was going
to be even stupider. You don't need a marketing course, you need a
writing course.
If Franklin's masters program is aware of the project, they sure as
Hell must not be checking it.
By the way, repeating the same post over and over, that's just
pathetic.
For your information, I use Titebond II. I don't buy it because of
marketing, I buy it because it works, and I like it. I don't buy
ANYTHING because of marketing, and/or surveys. In fact, I consider
people that do that type of work somewhat untrustworthy, because usually
they are trying to sell someting they know nothing about. What I do is
research what I'm after, screw your marketing, I try to get input from
people who actually bought and use whatever. But, it wouldn't matter if
you do, or not, because if I don't need glue at the moment, I'm not
buying any. And, when I do buy glue, I'm not going to depend on
marketing, or some stupid survey, I'm going to a store and buy the glue
I want, which, as it happens, is Titebond II. However, I know there are
other glues that work, so keep expressing yourself as poorly as you did
in your original post, and I'm willing to consider changing brands. No
prob.
Don't forget to sign up for a writing class.
JOAT
"106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of
cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood
"Hit it." - Joliet Jake
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student) wrote:
>The whole purpose of this survey was to find out opinions about a
>product for purposes of research and to possibly improve a product
>from your responses.
Ya know, you would have gotten a very different and much warmer reception had
you been forthright about your affiliation with Franklin International,
instead of attempting to deceive us with this nonsense about a university
research project.
FWIW, I notice that you're *still* posting from Franklin International's
domain, not the university's.
>
>What I am not clear on is the whole purpose of this message board. To
>accuse, put down the efforts of others. I would think your time would
>be better spent woodworking.
The purpose of this newsgroup is to serve as a discussion forum for
woodworking-related topics. It is not intended as a place for commercial
businesses seeking marketing information to pose as university researchers.
You're in a hole. Stop digging.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Franklin Univ Student wrote:
> The whole purpose of this survey was to find out opinions about a
> product for purposes of research and to possibly improve a product
> from your responses.
>
> What I am not clear on is the whole purpose of this message board. To
> accuse, put down the efforts of others. I would think your time would
> be better spent woodworking.
Welcome to USENET where for every person who has something to contribute
there are ten who are here just to be annoying. Your killfile is your
friend.
You would probably do better though, if you're looking for answers, to just
post your questions here than to invite people to take a survey.
> [email protected] (J T) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Fri, May 28, 2004, 10:48am (EDT-3) [email protected]
>> (Franklin Univ Student) puts out:
>> Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student <snip>
>> I happened to posted the survey on the web from work. <snip> The Masters
>> program at Franklin University is aware of this research and supports it
>> fully
>>
>> "I happened to posted"? ROTFLMAO
>>
>> A graduate student, eh? What grade? I didn't look at your survey.
>> Why? At least partly, because you could not express youself clearly in
>> writing. You didn't even come close. So, knew the "survey" was going
>> to be even stupider. You don't need a marketing course, you need a
>> writing course.
>>
>> If Franklin's masters program is aware of the project, they sure as
>> Hell must not be checking it.
>>
>> By the way, repeating the same post over and over, that's just
>> pathetic.
>>
>> For your information, I use Titebond II. I don't buy it because of
>> marketing, I buy it because it works, and I like it. I don't buy
>> ANYTHING because of marketing, and/or surveys. In fact, I consider
>> people that do that type of work somewhat untrustworthy, because usually
>> they are trying to sell someting they know nothing about. What I do is
>> research what I'm after, screw your marketing, I try to get input from
>> people who actually bought and use whatever. But, it wouldn't matter if
>> you do, or not, because if I don't need glue at the moment, I'm not
>> buying any. And, when I do buy glue, I'm not going to depend on
>> marketing, or some stupid survey, I'm going to a store and buy the glue
>> I want, which, as it happens, is Titebond II. However, I know there are
>> other glues that work, so keep expressing yourself as poorly as you did
>> in your original post, and I'm willing to consider changing brands. No
>> prob.
>>
>> Don't forget to sign up for a writing class.
>>
>> JOAT
>> "106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of
>> cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood
>>
>> "Hit it." - Joliet Jake
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
The whole purpose of this survey was to find out opinions about a
product for purposes of research and to possibly improve a product
from your responses.
What I am not clear on is the whole purpose of this message board. To
accuse, put down the efforts of others. I would think your time would
be better spent woodworking.
[email protected] (J T) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Fri, May 28, 2004, 10:48am (EDT-3) [email protected]
> (Franklin Univ Student) puts out:
> Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student <snip>
> I happened to posted the survey on the web from work. <snip> The Masters
> program at Franklin University is aware of this research and supports it
> fully
>
> "I happened to posted"? ROTFLMAO
>
> A graduate student, eh? What grade? I didn't look at your survey.
> Why? At least partly, because you could not express youself clearly in
> writing. You didn't even come close. So, knew the "survey" was going
> to be even stupider. You don't need a marketing course, you need a
> writing course.
>
> If Franklin's masters program is aware of the project, they sure as
> Hell must not be checking it.
>
> By the way, repeating the same post over and over, that's just
> pathetic.
>
> For your information, I use Titebond II. I don't buy it because of
> marketing, I buy it because it works, and I like it. I don't buy
> ANYTHING because of marketing, and/or surveys. In fact, I consider
> people that do that type of work somewhat untrustworthy, because usually
> they are trying to sell someting they know nothing about. What I do is
> research what I'm after, screw your marketing, I try to get input from
> people who actually bought and use whatever. But, it wouldn't matter if
> you do, or not, because if I don't need glue at the moment, I'm not
> buying any. And, when I do buy glue, I'm not going to depend on
> marketing, or some stupid survey, I'm going to a store and buy the glue
> I want, which, as it happens, is Titebond II. However, I know there are
> other glues that work, so keep expressing yourself as poorly as you did
> in your original post, and I'm willing to consider changing brands. No
> prob.
>
> Don't forget to sign up for a writing class.
>
> JOAT
> "106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of
> cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood
>
> "Hit it." - Joliet Jake
Tue, Jun 1, 2004, 5:45am (EDT-3) [email protected]
(Franklin=A0Univ=A0Student) whimpers:
The whole purpose of this survey was to find out opinions about a
product for purposes of research and to possibly improve a product from
your responses.
What I am not clear on is the whole purpose of this message board. To
accuse, put down the efforts of others. I would think your time would be
better spent woodworking.
Spend some time learning to clearly express yourself with the
written word. You're not very close so far. Again, I never even looked
at your survey. I figured it'd be BS, based solely on the way you
failed to clearly express yourself in your original post, Apparently, I
was right.
One recent example:
It's a newsgroup, not a message board.
Well, in truth, I doubt sincerely I would have taken the survey, no
matter how well it was written, but I might have at least looked at it
if you written better. At least, if you had, I doubt I would have
responded at all. But, a college student, supposedly a grad student,
writing that poorly? Gimme a break.
If you check, I said I use Titebond II. Used it for years, and
prefer it. But, I know other makes of glues, will work too. So, keep
whining, and I'll start looking, with an eye to switching.
Write an article, on something you think you know a lot about.
Then submit it to a few magazines, and see what they say about your
writing.
JOAT
If you're offered free wood, take it, period; figure out what to use it
for later.
- JOAT
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:05:49 -0400, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:
> Spend some time learning to clearly express yourself with the
>written word.
And then...
> Well, in truth, I doubt sincerely I would have taken the survey, no
>matter how well it was written, but I might have at least looked at it
>if you written better. (sic)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ROTFLMAO !!!
Moreover, English may not his primary language be.
Have a nice week...
Trent©
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
Tue, Jun 1, 2004, 9:37pm [email protected] (Trent=A9) English
professor at large, stated:
ROTFLMAO !!!
Moreover, English may not his primary language be.
At least better the context expressed than he I. Yours up.
JOAT
If you're offered free wood, take it, period; figure out what to use it
for later.
- JOAT
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:17:54 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>Ya know, you would have gotten a very different and much warmer reception had
>you been forthright about your affiliation with Franklin International,
>instead of attempting to deceive us with this nonsense about a university
>research project.
Ya really think so? I don't! lol
>>What I am not clear on is the whole purpose of this message board. To
>>accuse, put down the efforts of others. I would think your time would
>>be better spent woodworking.
Good point.
>The purpose of this newsgroup is to serve as a discussion forum for
>woodworking-related topics. It is not intended as a place for commercial
>businesses seeking marketing information to pose as university researchers.
He already TOLD you that he did it as part of his schooling...a
project that was approved by the SCHOOL. Pay attention!
When YOU post here, do you post your employer affiliation? Does
anybody else here?...except maybe Lee Valley. Why should HE be asked
to state his company affiliation?
The survey could just as easily have been posted by anyone else in his
study group. He would still have been a member of that study
group...still a Franklin employee. So what?
You guys simply jumped his ass...without first knowing all the facts.
Quit diggin'.
Have a nice week...
Trent©
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
Thanks for the advice. We just wanted unbiased opinion.
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Franklin Univ Student wrote:
>
> > Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for
> > Rockler Woodworking.
> >
> > As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
> > conducting a research project for a class. The project uses
> > this survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey
> > should require less than five minutes of your time. Your
> > efforts will help the team meet the requirements of the class.
> > In addition, your comments could help the manufacturer better
> > meet your woodworking needs.
>
> I've been using Titebond glue for a long time. I like that the
> behavior has been consistant and dependable; and that I've not
> ever even heard of a bad batch. Less than eight hours before this
> posting appeared, I was at the store replenishing my supply.
>
> I recall recent posts quoting letters of assistance from Franklin
> (the glue folks, not the university) written to help ordinary
> woodworkers understand clamping requirements.
>
> None of the above is the kind of behavior I'd expect from a
> deceitful organization.
>
> This poster made the unwise decision to not reveal his/her
> employment relationship with the manufacturer - and (one would
> hope) has acquired even more education than expected; and (one
> would hope again) accrued a bit of wisdom that should prove
> useful in a marketing career.
>
> [For the MRT-601 class (and instructor): Sometimes it's wiser to
> accept that results are biased; and that it may be necessary to
> go through additional effort to quantify that bias so that the
> biased results can be properly normalized.]
>
> I plan to keep on using Franklin products as long as they're of
> consistant high quality, are priced affordably, and are readily
> available.
I have addressed all of the concerns that you have. If you have any
further concerns feel free to post them. If not let's consider the
matter closed.
"Roger L" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I want to post here to see if this student replies again..
>
> Testing....
>
> Roger
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Franklin Univ Student wrote:
> >
> > > Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for
> > > Rockler Woodworking.
> > >
> > > As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
> > > conducting a research project for a class. The project uses
> > > this survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey
> > > should require less than five minutes of your time. Your
> > > efforts will help the team meet the requirements of the class.
> > > In addition, your comments could help the manufacturer better
> > > meet your woodworking needs.
> >
> > I've been using Titebond glue for a long time. I like that the
> > behavior has been consistant and dependable; and that I've not
> > ever even heard of a bad batch. Less than eight hours before this
> > posting appeared, I was at the store replenishing my supply.
> >
> > I recall recent posts quoting letters of assistance from Franklin
> > (the glue folks, not the university) written to help ordinary
> > woodworkers understand clamping requirements.
> >
> > None of the above is the kind of behavior I'd expect from a
> > deceitful organization.
> >
> > This poster made the unwise decision to not reveal his/her
> > employment relationship with the manufacturer - and (one would
> > hope) has acquired even more education than expected; and (one
> > would hope again) accrued a bit of wisdom that should prove
> > useful in a marketing career.
> >
> > [For the MRT-601 class (and instructor): Sometimes it's wiser to
> > accept that results are biased; and that it may be necessary to
> > go through additional effort to quantify that bias so that the
> > biased results can be properly normalized.]
> >
> > I plan to keep on using Franklin products as long as they're of
> > consistant high quality, are priced affordably, and are readily
> > available.
> >
> > --
> > Morris Dovey
> > DeSoto, Iowa USA
> >
There is no "smoke screen", this is a student project and it clearly
states in the opening of the survey that the results may be sharred
with the manufacturer. There is no conspiracy.
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Franklin Univ Student) wrote:
> >Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at
> >Franklin University,
>
> Uh-huh. And I'm the King of Siam.
>
> The relevant header on this one is the same as on the spam:
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.211.171.194
>
> In other words, you're *still* posting from inside Franklin International's
> network.
>
> [snip]
> >
> >I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to
> >tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard
> >for woodworkers.
>
> Yeah, right. Your regard for us is so high that you think none of us are able
> to see through this smoke screen.
I wish this thread would end. But, just for the record, Franklin
International had nothing to do with setting up this survey. It was
clearly stated that these results "may be shared with the
manufacturer". There was no deception or conspiracy. Those of you that
are serious woodworkers know that Franklin International is a
privately held company with the highest ethical standards.
Franklin Univ Student wrote:
> Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for
> Rockler Woodworking.
>
> As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
> conducting a research project for a class. The project uses
> this survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey
> should require less than five minutes of your time. Your
> efforts will help the team meet the requirements of the class.
> In addition, your comments could help the manufacturer better
> meet your woodworking needs.
I've been using Titebond glue for a long time. I like that the
behavior has been consistant and dependable; and that I've not
ever even heard of a bad batch. Less than eight hours before this
posting appeared, I was at the store replenishing my supply.
I recall recent posts quoting letters of assistance from Franklin
(the glue folks, not the university) written to help ordinary
woodworkers understand clamping requirements.
None of the above is the kind of behavior I'd expect from a
deceitful organization.
This poster made the unwise decision to not reveal his/her
employment relationship with the manufacturer - and (one would
hope) has acquired even more education than expected; and (one
would hope again) accrued a bit of wisdom that should prove
useful in a marketing career.
[For the MRT-601 class (and instructor): Sometimes it's wiser to
accept that results are biased; and that it may be necessary to
go through additional effort to quantify that bias so that the
biased results can be properly normalized.]
I plan to keep on using Franklin products as long as they're of
consistant high quality, are priced affordably, and are readily
available.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Well, there IS a Franklin University, established 1902 (see
www.franklin.edu)
That is NOT to say that this study was or was not done for the
Franklin International folks, but I really doubt that this is fraud
John
On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:55:57 -0400, "Roger L"
<rogerl@[email protected]> wrote:
>Sad part is that this email did not originate from any educational
>institution.
>It came directly from Franklin International the makers of this HIPURFormer
>CRAP.
>
>A few things can be learned from this.
>
>1. The company has absolutely no integrity at all. To actually try to
>deceive people into thinking they were someone else. (I am sure it is
>illegal somewhere). Might be
> worth while to send an email off to [email protected] and let them
>know of Franklin internationals fraud. (I already did and encourage you to
>as well).
>
>2. Could you really believe any claim that this company makes about their
>products, after seeing this scam?
>
>3. They must not be too bright over there at Franklin International as to
>think that people would believe this crap, or maybe they are just looking
>for these type of suckers to buy their products.
>
>IF YOU REALLY hate to see this type of CRAP, I would suggest that we all go
>over to :
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-8046604-3693741
>
>and give each of their products a review. :)~
>
>
>Roger
>
>"Franklin Univ Student" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Take this survey, and you could win A $50 Gift Certificate for Rockler
>> Woodworking.
>>
>> As a team of graduate students at Franklin University, we are
>> conducting a research project for a class. The project uses this
>> survey to find out what woodworkers like you. This survey should
>> require less than five minutes of your time. Your efforts will help
>> the team meet the requirements of the class. In addition, your
>> comments could help the manufacturer better meet your woodworking
>> needs.
>>
>> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=96970501572
>
Franklin Univ Student wrote:
> Thanks for the advice. We just wanted unbiased opinion.
You must be a young person. In my warmest grandfatherly manner,
let me share some possibly useful lessons:
[1] There are no unbiased opinions.
[2] Deception (lying, withholding an essential part of a truth in
order to deceive, or providing a carefully selected set of truths
in order to lead someone to an incorrect conclusion) violates
most peoples' sense of "trustworthy".
[3] Nearly all people subscribe to the principles embodied in the
Boy Scouts' "Scout Law" (trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,
courteous, kind, ...) and afford to others a standing that
correlates fairly closely to their perception of the other person
conducting themselves in accordance with those principles.
[4] Commercial endeavors are measured similarly; and standings
are based additionally on perceptions of value delivered for
price asked, behavior of the business organization as a whole,
and behavior of all individuals involved in the business.
[5] Although not specifically mentioned in [3] and [4], the
principles of justice (balanced behavior and exchanges) and
fairness (equability) are major factors in standing afforded.
[6] The perception is that you were attempting to deceive the
rec.woodworking *community*; and this community perceives
deceivers as economic and/or safety threats.
[7] Woodworking is closely related to the craft that gave us the
English word "sincere"; and sincerity is highly valued by those
who practice this craft. We especially value those community
members whose works (and lives!) need no "spackle" (DAGS).
I'm reponding with all of this because I'm inclined to believe
that your /intention/ wasn't dishonest; and that your behavior
was clumsy rather than despicable.
My perception is that marketing folks have a tendancy to get so
wrapped up with numbers that they forget that those numbers
represent real warm, breathing, feeling, thinking human beings.
My unsolicited opinion: Anyone (in any field) who forgets that
fact can only aspire to being a "hack" (a second-rater) and will
not ever be able to produce really first class results. You may
have a different opinion; but please at least ask yourself: "What
if he's right about that?"
Elsethread you asked the purpose of the group. The group is a
community with several purposes: to teach and pass on experience,
to learn from the experience of others, and to provide a certain
amount of social interchange and mutual support between people
with a common interest in woodworking. It's not just about tools
and sawdust.
All of the above is ( biased :-) opinion.
HTH
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
I'm sure that the powers that be have been trembling at the
thought that you might forgo using their products. They had
visions of Chapter 13 dancing before their eyes until you
assured them that you will continue to purchase their
products. We can all sleep well tonight!
BTW, Hoyt, you never got back to me on your reasons for
wanting me to email you. Did you REALLY have something
personal to discuss? You ignored my previous request for
clarification. If you keep ignoring my questions, I'll
assume you have no good answers; especially when the
question was asked only in response to your curiously odd
post to "Bay Area Dave"...
dave
Hoyt Weathers wrote:
> Franklin Univ Student wrote:
>
>
>>Thank you John for suggesting doing your homework before you assume the worst.
>
>
> I will NOT be taking the survey. Why? It sounded fishy from the get-go. Then all
> heck broke out and it got worse. I have read every reply including all of the OP's
> weak replies. It still does not wash with me. In my opinion it was a dumb thing for
> the OP to post into this fine group the way he did. Perhaps he will add all of this
> to his final report or product. Who here would ever trust any survey results done
> anywhere and posted by Franklin? Not me !
>
> I use their products because they work for me. That will not change.
>
> Hoyt W.
>
>