Cheap Table Saw

Excellent post sir, from one who is also in the market for an
inexpensive saw.

Gray Ghost wrote:

>
> A lot of people here are betraying thier more experienced prejudices. If
> all you've got is a relatively small budget or are not sure how far you
> want to get into it than a less expensive saw is a good way to go.
>
> This is unquestionably a daunting task filled with terms you may never have
> heard before. Features are many and varied and the exact match for you is
> not the same for everyone. Small craft projects do not necessarily have the
> same requirements as furniture making.
>
> I am of the opinion, and it has yet to fail me, is to spend less money up
> front because you don't know if you are going to like actually doing crafts
> or are good at it. You are unlikely to tackle large projects at first
> simply because you haven't the experience. And frankly I'd rather have the
> guys at Lowes or Home Depot use thier panel saw to cut down plywood sheets
> for me, at least for a start. So a more expensive, feature packed model is
> not necessarily the best starting item.
>
> Decide what your budget is. Then think about people you may know who use
> tools. What do they use or like. My dad and grandads were Craftsman people.
> I have a comfort level with thier products. But I also own other brands
> becuase the feature mix/price/quality also appealed. There is junk out
> there but it is relative. A $149 table saw would be ineffective for a more
> heavy schedule of building with heavier material. It would quickly burn up.
> But for small stuff it could last a lifetime.
>
> Many of the guys here are very experienced and I think they forget what it
> was like to start off. I have an inexpensive Craftsman. The fence is fine
> as is the mitre gauge. I've already used it to make a balcony railing,
> along with a Tradesman drill press (to drill the holes for the spindles)
> and a Ryobi router/table combo to finish the baseplate. And several other
> projects. I had problems at first with all of them becasue of my lack of
> experience, not becuase they were flawed. I expect I may upgrade later but
> only when I have more experience and "feel" and have a much better idea
> what I want. I also haven't bought more expensive and specialized tools
> like planers or jointers yet. Those I will probably buy a better, more
> expensive item first, but only because I will have more experience and
> understanding by then.
>
> In the meantime put +tool +reviews in your favorite browser and READ! READ!
> READ! Go to Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, etc and put your hands on the tools.
> Visulally look them over and see if they look and feel like junk or
> quality. Does it "fit" you in terms of your size and reach? Do the features
> seem easy to use or especially intuitive. I actually rejected some more
> expensive units because I thought the the features and settings were
> awkward, unweidly or prone to breakage. Talk to the store reps, but take it
> with a grain of salt as many of them are really no more than sales
> associates and could be selling toasters or underwear for all they know.
> Look for sales - sometimes you can get a better item cheaper if the model
> is being closed out.
>
> I have some other interests besides woodworking - firearms, history and
> model building among them. A common theme of them all is the experts are
> always the same. What they have/do is superior to what you have/do. You
> should emulate them at any cost and irrespective of your level of interest
> or current ability. Bullshit! What you do is supposed to be fun. Always try
> to do better but learn the basics first.
>
> Examples - when I strted reloading I strted with a single stage press. I
> stayed with the same brand and moved up to a turret press and noe a
> progressive. Some people said I should have just bought a more expensive
> brand 'x' model first. Well, no they were expnsive and I wasn't sure at
> first how I'd like it. Same with airbruhes. I started very cheap and gave
> now graduated to a double action that I haven't used yet. I got a steal on
> the double action that I wouldn't have if I'd bought it first. I also
> wouldn't have had the ability to use it well and have become discouraged,
> it takes some "feel" to use them right and simpler airbrushes let me
> concentrate on technique not bells, whistles and gizmos.
>
> Check this site for reviews.
> http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_Tools-All-Table_Saw#more_options
>
> Frank

Hmm, nope never saw a table lamp. Now my Uncle made one into an end table
once. He was a bit eccentric.

D. Mo
"C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:42:59 +0000, Zeke Redner wrote:
>
> > I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
> > something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of these
> > work:
> >
> > 1. ShopMaster 10" Bench Top Table Saw: $121
> >
> > http://myturl.com/000kd
> >
> > 2. RYOBI 10" Bench Top Table Saw $79
> >
> > http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,514.html
> >
> > 3. Delta BENCH TOP 10" TABLE SAW $89
> >
> > http://myturl.com/000ke
> >
> >
> > Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10
inch
> > good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the $800
> > models do?
> >
> >
> > -Zeke
>
>
> I'm not so sure "cheap" and "cutting straight" can be used in the same
> sentence.
>
> Buy cheap tools and they soon become miserable objects taking up space in
> one's workshop. Not only do they break down, low end tools are rarely a
> delight to use.
>
> Of course, a cheap tablesaw could be made into a boat anchor. I have yet
> to see one turned into a table lamp, however.
>
>

"Zeke Redner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
> something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of these
> work:
>
> 1. ShopMaster 10" Bench Top Table Saw: $121
> 2. RYOBI 10" Bench Top Table Saw $79
> 3. Delta BENCH TOP 10" TABLE SAW $89

I would suggest stepping up another $100 from those and looking at the Ryobi
BTS20 instead ($199). Mind you, it's not, by far, the world's best saw, but
I've heard that it's actually pretty decent -- especially for the price.
Certainly, it has the best rip fence you can find at $200 or less. And it
probably won't try to jump off your table like the BTS10 will. It also has
it's own set of wheels and folds up to roll out of the way.

I've got the BT3100, which is definitely better, but also more expensive.
I've never used the BTS20, however. I used to have the BTS10 -- you don't
want one! I'm not joking about it trying to jump off the table when you
turn it on.

thanks,
--randy

Sat, Dec 13, 2003, 6:42am (EST+5) [email protected] (Zeke=A0Redner) says:
I want to buy a cheap table saw.<snip>

I'm curious, are you broke, or just cheap?

JOAT
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might
as well dance.
- Unknown

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 12 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

Gray Ghost wrote:

An excellent post.

>
>
> I have some other interests besides woodworking - firearms, history and
> model building among them. A common theme of them all is the experts are
> always the same. What they have/do is superior to what you have/do. You
> should emulate them at any cost and irrespective of your level of interest
> or current ability. Bullshit! What you do is supposed to be fun. Always try
> to do better but learn the basics first.



I have to agree with the dig on the 'experts'.

If I took these 'experts' seriously I would have to toss my damned near
40 year old Craftsman radial arm saw inherited from my Pa, I would have
to stop being impressed with the cheapest 3/8 drill Craftsman was
selling 11 years ago that still turns a bit or screw today, I should
hang my head in shame for being happy with my $20 dollar Craftsman table
saw, I should be unhappy with my new router because it's a single speed
and not high powered, and so on.

Worse yet, according to some 'experts' I'm a pox because I buy used
machinery whenever I can thus keeping money from Corporate America and
not keeping the economy going, keeping money from the taxman, and
because I don't need the biggest, shiniest, newest tools.

According to some of these 'experts' if your not like them your not with
the program.


These people are everywhere.

/end rant




--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

C <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm not so sure "cheap" and "cutting straight" can be used in the same
> sentence.

You can't cut something straight inexpensively?
>
> Buy cheap tools and they soon become miserable objects taking up space in
> one's workshop. Not only do they break down, low end tools are rarely a
> delight to use.

I've got some expensive tools I love as well as some cheap ones. I've
got a twenty dollar router that has worked perfectly for a few
situations.

Zeke Redner <[email protected]> wrote:

> > I've
> > got a twenty dollar router that has worked perfectly for a few
> > situations.

> That's my kind of router! What kind is it? Where did you buy it? Got a
> link?

Its the Harbor Freight trim router which normally sells for $40 and goes
on sale regularly for $20.

Remember I said for some situations. Its a little guy.

Freud 206 is supposed to work great on it. Some people have the 208
working, but Ryboi recommends 6" only and some of the saws don't have
clearance for the 8".

--randy

"Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
>
> >*Strongly* recommend you look at the Ryobi BT3100, as an 'affordable'
tool
> >that you _won't_ spend most of your time 'fighting with', but rather,
doing
> >constructive work.
>
> Does this saw have an arbor that will handle a stacked dado?
>
> --
> Howard Lee Harkness
> Texas Certified Concealed Handgun Instructor
> www.CHL-TX.com
> [email protected]
> Low-cost Domain Registration and Hosting! www.Texas-Domains.com

Zeke Redner wrote:

> What if I buy a better blade for one of the cheaper models? I've heard

I'll add to my last post... Putting a Freud TK960 on mine helped a lot, but
it's still a miserable saw. The blade did absolutely nothing for the noise
and vibration. Absolutely NOTHING.

Not useless, but no joy to use. I've raised the bar as high as I can with
it, and the bar isn't very high.

OTOH, using this thing has put me in a position to *really* appreciate a
good saw when I get one some day.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

I run an 8" dado blade on mine all the time, works great. I would
prefer a 6", which will still cut as deeply as I'll ever want to w/ a
dado blade, but I got the 8" set for $5 so I can't complain. The 6" is
better, BTW, because it's lighter and needs less torque to spin it
(that's a universal motor, don't forget). The Ryobi techie I spoke w/
recommended the Oldham 6.5".

Cheers,
H

"Randy Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<22TCb.545110$Fm2.516690@attbi_s04>...
> Freud 206 is supposed to work great on it. Some people have the 208
> working, but Ryboi recommends 6" only and some of the saws don't have
> clearance for the 8".
>
> --randy
>
> "Howard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
> >
> > >*Strongly* recommend you look at the Ryobi BT3100, as an 'affordable'
> tool
> > >that you _won't_ spend most of your time 'fighting with', but rather,
> doing
> > >constructive work.
> >
> > Does this saw have an arbor that will handle a stacked dado?
> >
> > --
> > Howard Lee Harkness
> > Texas Certified Concealed Handgun Instructor
> > www.CHL-TX.com
> > [email protected]
> > Low-cost Domain Registration and Hosting! www.Texas-Domains.com

Zeke Redner wrote:

What would these cheaper models be lacking that the $800
> models do?
>
>
> -Zeke

Everything!

Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"

Zeke Redner <[email protected]> wrote

> Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10
> inch good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the
> $800 models do?

Depending on what you want to do, you will probably need to spend about
$450-$500 to get something minimally acceptable. The $100 jammies scare me
a little. I talking US dollars, by the way.

--
Bill

Zeke Redner <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
> something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of these
> work:
>
> 1. ShopMaster 10" Bench Top Table Saw: $121
>
> http://myturl.com/000kd
>
> 2. RYOBI 10" Bench Top Table Saw $79
>
> http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,514.html
>
> 3. Delta BENCH TOP 10" TABLE SAW $89
>
> http://myturl.com/000ke
>
>
> Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10
> inch good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the
> $800 models do?
>
>
> -Zeke
>
>
>
>
>
>

A lot of people here are betraying thier more experienced prejudices. If
all you've got is a relatively small budget or are not sure how far you
want to get into it than a less expensive saw is a good way to go.

This is unquestionably a daunting task filled with terms you may never have
heard before. Features are many and varied and the exact match for you is
not the same for everyone. Small craft projects do not necessarily have the
same requirements as furniture making.

I am of the opinion, and it has yet to fail me, is to spend less money up
front because you don't know if you are going to like actually doing crafts
or are good at it. You are unlikely to tackle large projects at first
simply because you haven't the experience. And frankly I'd rather have the
guys at Lowes or Home Depot use thier panel saw to cut down plywood sheets
for me, at least for a start. So a more expensive, feature packed model is
not necessarily the best starting item.

Decide what your budget is. Then think about people you may know who use
tools. What do they use or like. My dad and grandads were Craftsman people.
I have a comfort level with thier products. But I also own other brands
becuase the feature mix/price/quality also appealed. There is junk out
there but it is relative. A $149 table saw would be ineffective for a more
heavy schedule of building with heavier material. It would quickly burn up.
But for small stuff it could last a lifetime.

Many of the guys here are very experienced and I think they forget what it
was like to start off. I have an inexpensive Craftsman. The fence is fine
as is the mitre gauge. I've already used it to make a balcony railing,
along with a Tradesman drill press (to drill the holes for the spindles)
and a Ryobi router/table combo to finish the baseplate. And several other
projects. I had problems at first with all of them becasue of my lack of
experience, not becuase they were flawed. I expect I may upgrade later but
only when I have more experience and "feel" and have a much better idea
what I want. I also haven't bought more expensive and specialized tools
like planers or jointers yet. Those I will probably buy a better, more
expensive item first, but only because I will have more experience and
understanding by then.

In the meantime put +tool +reviews in your favorite browser and READ! READ!
READ! Go to Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, etc and put your hands on the tools.
Visulally look them over and see if they look and feel like junk or
quality. Does it "fit" you in terms of your size and reach? Do the features
seem easy to use or especially intuitive. I actually rejected some more
expensive units because I thought the the features and settings were
awkward, unweidly or prone to breakage. Talk to the store reps, but take it
with a grain of salt as many of them are really no more than sales
associates and could be selling toasters or underwear for all they know.
Look for sales - sometimes you can get a better item cheaper if the model
is being closed out.

I have some other interests besides woodworking - firearms, history and
model building among them. A common theme of them all is the experts are
always the same. What they have/do is superior to what you have/do. You
should emulate them at any cost and irrespective of your level of interest
or current ability. Bullshit! What you do is supposed to be fun. Always try
to do better but learn the basics first.

Examples - when I strted reloading I strted with a single stage press. I
stayed with the same brand and moved up to a turret press and noe a
progressive. Some people said I should have just bought a more expensive
brand 'x' model first. Well, no they were expnsive and I wasn't sure at
first how I'd like it. Same with airbruhes. I started very cheap and gave
now graduated to a double action that I haven't used yet. I got a steal on
the double action that I wouldn't have if I'd bought it first. I also
wouldn't have had the ability to use it well and have become discouraged,
it takes some "feel" to use them right and simpler airbrushes let me
concentrate on technique not bells, whistles and gizmos.

Check this site for reviews.
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_Tools-All-Table_Saw#more_options

Frank

[email protected] (T.) wrote in news:14687-3FDAFEB2-25@storefull-
3198.bay.webtv.net:

> Sat, Dec 13, 2003, 6:42am (EST+5) [email protected] (Zeke Redner) says:
> I want to buy a cheap table saw.<snip>
>
> I'm curious, are you broke, or just cheap?


Both.

> A lot depends on what you want a table saw to do.


What if I buy a better blade for one of the cheaper models? I've heard that
cuts down the noise and vibration while giving a better cut. How much would
a good blade run me? Do the good table saws come with good blades? Or do
you need to change those too?


Zeke

[email protected] (Gray Ghost) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Zeke Redner <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
>> something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of
>> these work:
>>
>> 1. ShopMaster 10" Bench Top Table Saw: $121
>>
>> http://myturl.com/000kd
>>
>> 2. RYOBI 10" Bench Top Table Saw $79
>>
>> http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,514.html
>>
>> 3. Delta BENCH TOP 10" TABLE SAW $89
>>
>> http://myturl.com/000ke
>>
>>
>> Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is
>> 10 inch good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that
>> the $800 models do?
>>
>>
>> -Zeke
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> A lot of people here are betraying thier more experienced prejudices.
> If all you've got is a relatively small budget or are not sure how far
> you want to get into it than a less expensive saw is a good way to go.
>
> This is unquestionably a daunting task filled with terms you may never
> have heard before. Features are many and varied and the exact match
> for you is not the same for everyone. Small craft projects do not
> necessarily have the same requirements as furniture making.
>
> I am of the opinion, and it has yet to fail me, is to spend less money
> up front because you don't know if you are going to like actually
> doing crafts or are good at it. You are unlikely to tackle large
> projects at first simply because you haven't the experience. And
> frankly I'd rather have the guys at Lowes or Home Depot use thier
> panel saw to cut down plywood sheets for me, at least for a start. So
> a more expensive, feature packed model is not necessarily the best
> starting item.
>
> Decide what your budget is. Then think about people you may know who
> use tools. What do they use or like. My dad and grandads were
> Craftsman people. I have a comfort level with thier products. But I
> also own other brands becuase the feature mix/price/quality also
> appealed. There is junk out there but it is relative. A $149 table saw
> would be ineffective for a more heavy schedule of building with
> heavier material. It would quickly burn up. But for small stuff it
> could last a lifetime.
>
> Many of the guys here are very experienced and I think they forget
> what it was like to start off. I have an inexpensive Craftsman. The
> fence is fine as is the mitre gauge. I've already used it to make a
> balcony railing, along with a Tradesman drill press (to drill the
> holes for the spindles) and a Ryobi router/table combo to finish the
> baseplate. And several other projects. I had problems at first with
> all of them becasue of my lack of experience, not becuase they were
> flawed. I expect I may upgrade later but only when I have more
> experience and "feel" and have a much better idea what I want. I also
> haven't bought more expensive and specialized tools like planers or
> jointers yet. Those I will probably buy a better, more expensive item
> first, but only because I will have more experience and understanding
> by then.
>
> In the meantime put +tool +reviews in your favorite browser and READ!
> READ! READ! Go to Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, etc and put your hands on
> the tools. Visulally look them over and see if they look and feel like
> junk or quality. Does it "fit" you in terms of your size and reach? Do
> the features seem easy to use or especially intuitive. I actually
> rejected some more expensive units because I thought the the features
> and settings were awkward, unweidly or prone to breakage. Talk to the
> store reps, but take it with a grain of salt as many of them are
> really no more than sales associates and could be selling toasters or
> underwear for all they know. Look for sales - sometimes you can get a
> better item cheaper if the model is being closed out.
>
> I have some other interests besides woodworking - firearms, history
> and model building among them. A common theme of them all is the
> experts are always the same. What they have/do is superior to what you
> have/do. You should emulate them at any cost and irrespective of your
> level of interest or current ability. Bullshit! What you do is
> supposed to be fun. Always try to do better but learn the basics
> first.
>
> Examples - when I strted reloading I strted with a single stage press.
> I stayed with the same brand and moved up to a turret press and noe a
> progressive. Some people said I should have just bought a more
> expensive brand 'x' model first. Well, no they were expnsive and I
> wasn't sure at first how I'd like it. Same with airbruhes. I started
> very cheap and gave now graduated to a double action that I haven't
> used yet. I got a steal on the double action that I wouldn't have if
> I'd bought it first. I also wouldn't have had the ability to use it
> well and have become discouraged, it takes some "feel" to use them
> right and simpler airbrushes let me concentrate on technique not
> bells, whistles and gizmos.
>
> Check this site for reviews.
> http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_Tools-All-Table_Saw#more_options
>
> Frank
>

Thanks for an excellent reply.

[email protected] (p_j) wrote

> I've
> got a twenty dollar router that has worked perfectly for a few
> situations.
>


That's my kind of router! What kind is it? Where did you buy it? Got a
link?

Zeke

Zeke Redner wrote:

> I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
> something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of these
> work:

Actually, carpenters can make do with a lot less accuracy than woodworkers.
What do you want to do?

I have a Skil 3400 benchtop saw on a stand. I got mine new for $50 on
clearance, but they ordinary sell for $200, so even this piece of crap is
out of your prospective price range, and you're looking at machines even
worse than this.

The only good things about my saw are:

* it was CHEAP
* it's very portable
* it's better than nothing

Everything about this saw sucks. The fence is terrible, the miter gauge is
terrible, the motor is underpowered and loud as hell, the table vibrates
like crazy, it's almost impossible to get the blade lined up parallel to
the miter slots, and almost impossible to get the blade set at 90 degrees
to the table.

After using my junker for about five years, and knowing what I know now, I
would definitely have spent more. I'd probably have gotten the Ryobi
BT3000/3100 for $300. It's the only small, cheap saw that anyone on the
Wreck likes at all.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article <[email protected]>,
Zeke Redner <[email protected]> wrote:
>I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
>something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of these
>work:
>
>1. ShopMaster 10" Bench Top Table Saw: $121
>
>http://myturl.com/000kd
>
>2. RYOBI 10" Bench Top Table Saw $79
>
>http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,514.html
>
>3. Delta BENCH TOP 10" TABLE SAW $89
>
>http://myturl.com/000ke
>
>
>Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10 inch
>good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the $800
>models do?
>
>
>-Zeke
>
>
>
>
>
>

Table saws come in about 5 varieties:
Cheap POS Junk -- characterized by:
small table dimensions,
don't hold set-up -- i.e. you'll have to do 'tune up' *frequently*
lack of precision in settings
*hard* to 'repeat' a set-up, to cut a 2nd piece like the 1st one.
require _lots_ of user effort to get 'marginally acceptable' output.

I've never seen any table saw in the under US$200 range that didn't
fall in this category.

Expensive POS -- these are often "bad design/engineering", luckily, they're
comparatively rare. Then there is the "OK design / sloppy manufacturing"
bunch. "No name" brands constitute most of this category. Most of the
saws in the circa US$250-600 range fall in this category.

Ryobi BT3000/BT3100 -- *UNIQUE* combination of affordable price (circa $300)
and good quality construction. *NOT* designed for 'all day, every day'
use, nor is it intended to be moved from job-site to job-site. But, for
the casual (or even semi-casual) user it's hard to find anything that
competes with it, even at _twice_ it's selling price.

Quality contractor saws -- "semi-portable", designed to be transported
from place to place and stand up to day-in/day-out use. Primarily used
for hardwoods 1" or less, and up to 2" softwoods.

Usually US$800+, with a quality fence and blade. A few models are some-
what less.

Quality Cabinet Saws -- for in-shop use only. heaviest and sturdiest of
the breed. Designed for "all-day/every-day" use. Usually equipped with
bigger motors than typical on contractor saws; designed to 'routinely'
cut hardwoods as thick as the saw can handle.

Usually US$1500+, with a quality fence and blade. A few models are some-
what less.


*EVERYTHING* you're looking at falls in the 1st category. "Marginally" O.K. if
you're only doing bird-house/dog-house scale/quality stuff. Seriously 'under-
powered" for cutting construction/framing materials (i.e., 2x4 and bigger).
*POORLY*SUITED* for detail and/or 'precision' cutting, for quality cabinet-
maker type tasks. One _can_ accomplish that kind of work with such a saw,
_sometimes_, and only with excessive and painstaking effort.

*Strongly* recommend you look at the Ryobi BT3100, as an 'affordable' tool
that you _won't_ spend most of your time 'fighting with', but rather, doing
constructive work.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:42:59 GMT, Zeke Redner <[email protected]> wrote:

>Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10 inch
>good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the $800
>models do?

I don't have any advise on THAT low end a model - perhaps you should
consider a nice circular saw, blade, and a clamp on straightedge
instead. You can do some nice things with just these tools and some
talent - and maybe a router.

As for what is lacking...
A fence that stays put and is accurate and long enough to be useful.
The power to actually *cut* wood.
And most of all, construction that is durable enough to last more than
a year. Arbor bearing on these cheap saws have an annoying tendency
to come apart at speed.

The cheapest thing I would consider is a Delta TS300, and it's no
prize...

Many people buy these to cut plywood, but you are better off with a
circular saw and guide. That is what I use to cut down large panels -
and I have a table saw.

FWIW,
Greg

>What would these cheaper models be lacking that the $800
>models do?
>-Zeke


Approximately $700 in extra weight, features and quality.

Think of a bicycle and a car.

UA100

Of course any of these will work. I'd rather go for a quality
circular saw and nice straight edge. You'll be able to cut large
sheets of ply. The table saw that costs more are usually heavier,
have large tables, more power usually belt driven for less vibration,
more accurate, dust collection, and have a solid fence. These low-end
benchtops are fine for crafts, breadboards, and birdhouses. Do not
expect them to rip an 8 foot plank with high accuracy, although you
might do it with lots of fussing and fine tuning.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:42:59 GMT, Zeke Redner <[email protected]> wrote:

>I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
>something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of these
>work:
>
>1. ShopMaster 10" Bench Top Table Saw: $121
>
>http://myturl.com/000kd
>
>2. RYOBI 10" Bench Top Table Saw $79
>
>http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,514.html
>
>3. Delta BENCH TOP 10" TABLE SAW $89
>
>http://myturl.com/000ke
>
>
>Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10 inch
>good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the $800
>models do?
>
>
>-Zeke
>
>
>
>
>

First off, the 2 Delta models are the exact same saw (Delta TS200), but the
second one is reconditioned which means that you get the same thing but with
a 6-month warranty instead of a 2-year warranty.

Second, Lowes has that model new (2-year warranty) for only $100 with stand.

Third, for $180 at Lowes, you can at least get the Delta TS220 with stand
which has both a larger table and a 15-amp direct-drive motor (the TS200 has
a 13-amp).

Fourth, for the price range, check out Craftsman. I know, they get
(deservedly) a bad rep in the WW community, but low-end, home-use,
consumer-grade products are their specialty. You'll at least get more frills
than the Deltas and you'll have somewhere to go in person should things not
work out to your satisfaction.

Fifth, check your local area for used. You'll most likely get more for less
that way. I just bought a used table saw and got a great deal (2HP
contractor saw with Jet Xacta fence, mobile base, cast-iron top and wings,
link belt with machined pulleys, etc for a little over $300).

Anyway, help this helps.



codepath




"Zeke Redner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
> something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of these
> work:
>
> 1. ShopMaster 10" Bench Top Table Saw: $121
>
> http://myturl.com/000kd
>
> 2. RYOBI 10" Bench Top Table Saw $79
>
> http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,514.html
>
> 3. Delta BENCH TOP 10" TABLE SAW $89
>
> http://myturl.com/000ke
>
>
> Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10
inch
> good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the $800
> models do?
>
>
> -Zeke
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:06:53 +0000, Woodchuck Bill wrote:

> Zeke Redner <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10
>> inch good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the
>> $800 models do?

A lot depends on what you want a table saw to do. If you are cutting
small parts and almost exclusively use a mitre gauge or shop built
fixtures (usually called jigs) then a cheap saw will do. I started with a
cheap motorized Delta that, honestly, wasn't much of a saw. I soon
"upgraded" to a saw I bought at an auction. It was a craftsman with a
"bent arbor" that I paid very little for. The "bent arbor" was a blade
with a 3/4" hole on a 5/8" shaft...but the fence on the saw was a real
piece of junk. When I came upon a unisaw for the right price I bought it
and sold the craftsman.
Any cheap saw will have a rip fence that is a real piece of junk. Don't
expect to cut straight boards with it. Even with a cheap saw you can
probably get accurate cuts on small parts if you take the time and fiddle
with the settings long enough. Expect enough noise to scare the neighbors
and usually a lot of vibration. And more than a little frustration.
A more expensive saw with a good, solid cast iron table will make setups
easier. It will also dampen vibration and noise. You will have more
horsepower available to cut thicker or harder boards without feeling like
you are pushing the limits of the saw. They are also harder to tip over,
thus safer but harder to move around.
If you pay the money for a good saw you can expect the setups to be
easier, the fence to be accurate, straight, and set dead on every time.
Bevel cuts and miters are easily repeatable and accurate. The saw will be
a joy to use and you really won't mind paying $60 or $70 for a blade when
you get the feel of a nice saw and see what can really be accomplished
with it. A 10 inch saw is plenty large. I don't really recommend
anything larger due to weight and power requirements. I once made 45 feet
of drink rail for a local bar with my 10" unisaw out of 2 1/2" x 4 1/2"
oak with a large (3"x1 1/4") cove cut in it.
I know this is kind of long but I hope it answers your questions.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 06:42:59 +0000, Zeke Redner wrote:

> I want to buy a cheap table saw. I am not a carpenter, I just need
> something for simple projects so I can cut straight. Would any of these
> work:
>
> 1. ShopMaster 10" Bench Top Table Saw: $121
>
> http://myturl.com/000kd
>
> 2. RYOBI 10" Bench Top Table Saw $79
>
> http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,514.html
>
> 3. Delta BENCH TOP 10" TABLE SAW $89
>
> http://myturl.com/000ke
>
>
> Also, any suggestion for a low end model that will cut straight? Is 10 inch
> good enough? What would these cheaper models be lacking that the $800
> models do?
>
>
> -Zeke


I'm not so sure "cheap" and "cutting straight" can be used in the same
sentence.

Buy cheap tools and they soon become miserable objects taking up space in
one's workshop. Not only do they break down, low end tools are rarely a
delight to use.

Of course, a cheap tablesaw could be made into a boat anchor. I have yet
to see one turned into a table lamp, however.

[email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:

>*Strongly* recommend you look at the Ryobi BT3100, as an 'affordable' tool
>that you _won't_ spend most of your time 'fighting with', but rather, doing
>constructive work.

Does this saw have an arbor that will handle a stacked dado?

--
Howard Lee Harkness
Texas Certified Concealed Handgun Instructor
www.CHL-TX.com
[email protected]
Low-cost Domain Registration and Hosting! www.Texas-Domains.com

T. looked up from his yellow tool long enough to babble:

> I'm curious, are you broke, or just cheap?

Probably a victim of our vast new service economy...