FT I need a bass guitar.

Tue, Apr 13, 2004, 5:17pm (EDT+4) [email protected]
(Steve=A0Knight) insanely states:
<snip> Amp after I see she is willing to learn (G)

No, amp after she starts practicing at someone else's house.

JOAT
Don't e-mail me while I'm breathing.

"Steve Knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> >$89 pre-cut/semi-shaped kit on Ebay.
> >What's to KNOW? ;)
>
> well you still have to build it and understand how it works (G) I got a
pretty
> good trade going for a used bass.
<snip>

I have the other side of that trade...looking forward to it, Steve! Thanks
much...

Scott

Kiwanda wrote:
>
> Of course, a real woodworker would just build one. By a neck,
> build a body, and install a pre-wired set up pups from Stewart-
> Macdonald and you'll have a better guitar then anything Squire
> ever dreamed of pasting their logo on.
>
> -Derek

Balderdash! A real woodworker would carve his own neck straight from a
piece of Honduras Mohagany (none of that maple stuff for a neck), lay a nice
slab of rosewood over it and painstakingly cut each fret in. As far as the
pups go, I'll let ya slide on that one even though pre-wired is not really
craftsmanlike. Better than a Squire - hell you could leave the neck off and
have a better guitar than the Squire.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Kiwanda wrote:

>
> Sure, but that would mean buying tools that the OP likely doesn't
> have $$$ for. Building necks isn't that easy without tools, esp.
> if you want to install a truss rod. But you can get a nice
> Warmouth neck for $100, then bolt it on to a body made with
> common WW tools.
>
>> As far as the pups go, I'll let ya slide on that one even though
>> pre-wired is not really craftsmanlike. Better than a Squire -
>> hell
>> you could leave the neck off and have a better guitar than the
>> Squire.
>
> Remember the OP wanted cheap. Of course you can do better
> yourself, even buying old pups off Ebay. But this guy didn't
> sound like he knew much about guitars or WW, so it might be
> better to say "assemble" a guitar instead of "build."
>
> Think about Bo Diddly's guitars...big slabs of wood, cut square,
> and bolted to stock necks. They sound just fine.
>
> -Derek

I'm sorry Derek - I was pulling your chain with my last comment. Yes, I
realize he's cost concious, and that building a neck is a very non-trivial
undertaking - that's why I posted it. It's sorta the way out, absurd
rediculous thing. I keep saying I'm going to build myself a guitar based
somewhat on the design of my electric and if I ever get around to actually
starting it, then pretty quickly I'll have one.. someday. I am however -
make no mistake about it - planning on buying a neck from Warmoth. I will
likely set the neck rather than bolt it in, but that's really only a
concession to my own preferences.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (J T) wrote:
My 0.02$CAN
stay away from epiphone brand, I bought one for my first guitar(about 2
years ago, whe I was 14) It was great for the first year, but It is
not as good as the Squires. and about twice the price.(250$CAN IIRC) the
neck joint is coming apart, poorly designed, and the canted back head
means the string tension really tries to pull it apart, the electronics
were bad, treble/rhythm(which pick up you use) didn't work, neither did
the treble pickup, turned out the wires were touching inside, the jack
on the bottom comes loose all the time, the bridge is screwy, and the
nut was too low(I had to knock it off with a chisel and glue some
cardstock in to stop it buzzing on the low frets. so a nice looking les
paul imitation, but not worth the 6 months of work to pay back the
parents:-)
also, it is a tad on the heavy side, as are all the les paul style ones,
and the round neck really makes you want to wrap your hand around
instead of trying for proper posture. I do quite like the squires, they
are one of the most reliable brands, and a very decent starting guitar,
my friend had one and he has used it hard, no signs of serious damage
yet, and at 99$CAN used from a music store store was pretty good.
A friend plays BC rich, they are nice if a bit more expensive, and not
really worth the extra money unless you really need the fancy paint and
spiky shapes.
so to boil it down; squires are my reccomendation, come in all colours
reliable cheap decent resale value when upgrading occurs and very good.
there are nicer brands(yamaha, Ibanez, Gibson etc) but at this time go
for the cheaper one. try to convince her that red is a better colour,
after about a year or two I'd bet she won't want a pink one anymore<G>

In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Reyd wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> > My 0.02$CAN
> > stay away from epiphone brand, I bought one for my first guitar(about
> > 2 years ago, whe I was 14) It was great for the first year, but It
> > is not as good as the Squires.
>
> FWIW, Epiphone has a much better reputation in guitar circles than Squire.
> You may have had a bad experience with one but that does not make the entire
> brand suspect. In the world of knock off guitars, you will find many more
> players, even good ones, playing Epiphone Les Paul knock offs than you will
> find playing Squire Strat knock offs. Wonder why that is? BTW, you'll also
> find a lot of players playing other brands of Les Paul knock offs which are
> better than Epi - look for a 70's vintage Ibanez.
>
an Ibanez is my eventual goal, the price being the only problem.
> > and about twice the price.(250$CAN
> > IIRC) the neck joint is coming apart, poorly designed, and the canted
> > back head means the string tension really tries to pull it apart
>
> Don't know why your neck joint is coming apart, but if the guitar is only 2
> years old, take it back. Epiphones come with a limited lifetime warranty so
> if there really is something wrong with the neck or the pocket that's
> causing separation, Epi/Gibson will fix it.
Really? that I did not know, the store I bought it from didn't tell me
anything about that, I took it back to them when the pickups started
acting up, after their return policy was up(30days IIRC) and they asked
me what I expected for 250$, needless to say I don't feel they need my
buisness after that comment.


As to the headstock - that is
> the standard Les Paul backangle. The string tension is just fine and it
> does not try to pull the headstock apart. This design is 50 years old and
> is the single most copied and successful design in the world of guitars. It
> can be a bit fragile - Les Pauls are known for breaking the headstock if
> they get dropped, but then again, you're not supposed to drop your axe.
>
with the fender type, the pull is much reduced on that joint, this is
not normally an issue, but with transporting the guitar around if the
neck is banged it has a much better chance of coming apart.(and
epiphone, perhaps with their head in certain dark places saw fit to
charge 30$ for a soft case that was much too small as part of the set)
and the squire is a much harder wood in the neck, again this is only
based on 5 instruments(3 squires and 2 epiphones) a friend also got a
similar epiphone with problems too.


> , the
> > electronics were bad, treble/rhythm(which pick up you use) didn't
> > work, neither did the treble pickup, turned out the wires were
> > touching inside,
>
> Electronics (really - pickups and switches in a LP knock off) are a weak
> point on an Epi, but only compared to more expensive guitars. Be assured,
> the pickups in those Squires are not of the same quality as the pickups on a
> branded Fender Strat. That's the world of economy guitars. You don't trade
> off price without trading off quality. As to the wires touching - you've
> got a point there. Should never have passed QC - but then again, that kind
> of thing does happen, every day.
>
>
> the jack on the bottom comes loose all the time, the
> > bridge is screwy,
>
> The bridge is a standard TuneOMatic bridge design. You just have to know
> how to tune it. It's not a difficult thing but if you're used to Strat
> style bridges, or trem bridges, then an LP style bride might seem "screwy".
>
>
> and the nut was too low(I had to knock it off with
> > a chisel and glue some cardstock in to stop it buzzing on the low
> > frets.
>
> ???? Knock it off with a chisel and then build it up with cardstock? That
> makes no sense. Did you try to adjust the truss rod first? Low fret buzz
> is a sign of a problem with neck tension. All guitars experience this with
> changes in temperature and humidity. My electric is a $3,000 custom built
> guitar and I have to tweak my truss rod twice a year as the seasons change.
> Changing string guages will also cause problems like this since you're
> really altering the relationship between the frets and the strings when you
> change guages. Same fix - setup the neck and setup the bridge.
my teacher adjusted the rod, and then after a few days recommended the
cardstock underneath, it worked when the truss rod didn't.
> so a nice looking les paul imitation, but not worth the 6
> > months of work to pay back the parents:-)
>
> That's always the hard part.
>
> > also, it is a tad on the heavy side,
>
> That would be the Les Paul style... a real man's guitar... ugh!
>
I suppose, but I do prefer a bit lighter as opposed to heavier.

> I'd place that Ibanez you mention above as the best economy guitar for the
> money. It's the best built of all of the economy-to-mid range guitars out
> there, has a very decent resale value, decent styling, excellent
> playability, excellent sound. As to color - red is cool - definately cool,
> but Tiger or Quilted Maple over Honduras Mohagany is soooo much cooler.
> There - we got it back on topic - got the wood part in there.
indeed, but I do think you might agree that pink is a rather awful
colour for a guitar, besides the plastic look which most paint jobs end
up with.
the wood body with clear/tinted coating guitars are much nicer, again
most of those have a higher price.
Ibanez are certainly nice, I'd definetly place them near the top of the
range, but their price reflects that. and I believe the thread was
asking for best cheap bass, I don't think anything Ibanez makes falls
into that category, but you can get a squire bass used for maybe
150-200$ canadian.

really? I wish I had found a yamaha that cheap, thats about what I payed
for my epiphone, and all the yamaha's I've seen were nice but the price
was about 200$ more.

> topic. First, if the OP is looking for a good but inexpensive
> bass, I wouldn't overlook the Yamahas. I'm a guitar player but
> have a Yamaha BB 404 bass that I really like-- bolt-on neck,
> alder body, natural finish. Sounds and plays well, and was only
> about $250 new w/gig bag. When I bought it I looked at the
> Squires, low-end Fenders, and most other basses in the $200-300
> range and thought the Yamaha far above the rest in sound,
> playability, and workmanship.
>
> On the guitar front, I tend to agree with the other posters here:
> Squires are really bottom-end instruments and many are almost
> unplayable. You're much better off with a fixed bridge in that
> price range, and the Epi Les Pauls are fairly decent instruments.
> The last band I played in-- a country/rock deal --featured twin
> lead guitars, one of which played an Epi every night.
there are some really great epiphones too, my keyboard teacher has one,
It sounds great, easy to play no problems with it, and its only a little
more expensive

>
> Of course, a real woodworker would just build one. By a neck,
> build a body, and install a pre-wired set up pups from Stewart-
> Macdonald and you'll have a better guitar then anything Squire
> ever dreamed of pasting their logo on.
I thought about that, but the routing for the insides always frightened
me off.

"mttt" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>> Reyd wrote:
>> > [email protected] (J T) wrote:
>> > My 0.02$CAN
>> > stay away from epiphone brand, I bought one for my first
>> > guitar(about 2 years ago, whe I was 14) It was great for
the
>> > first year, but It is not as good as the Squires.
>>
>> FWIW, Epiphone has a much better reputation in guitar circles
than
>> Squire.
>
> Agreed - Epi's come a long way since the 70's...

I missed the original post here, but had to weigh in on this
topic. First, if the OP is looking for a good but inexpensive
bass, I wouldn't overlook the Yamahas. I'm a guitar player but
have a Yamaha BB 404 bass that I really like-- bolt-on neck,
alder body, natural finish. Sounds and plays well, and was only
about $250 new w/gig bag. When I bought it I looked at the
Squires, low-end Fenders, and most other basses in the $200-300
range and thought the Yamaha far above the rest in sound,
playability, and workmanship.

On the guitar front, I tend to agree with the other posters here:
Squires are really bottom-end instruments and many are almost
unplayable. You're much better off with a fixed bridge in that
price range, and the Epi Les Pauls are fairly decent instruments.
The last band I played in-- a country/rock deal --featured twin
lead guitars, one of which played an Epi every night.

While my main guitars are a "real" Les Paul standard I've had for
20 years and a Fender Nashville Tele, I've owned a lot of
electrics over the years. Among the best of the cheaper ones were
(again) the Yamaha Pacifica, which is a much better strat copy
than any Squire you'll find. One can often find nice ESP or even
1980s Peavy guitars used in the $100-150 range. Going a bit
higher (and with luck) I've seen Schecter and even G&L strats for
under $300 used. Some of the Ibanez guitars in that range are
pretty good too.

Of course, a real woodworker would just build one. By a neck,
build a body, and install a pre-wired set up pups from Stewart-
Macdonald and you'll have a better guitar then anything Squire
ever dreamed of pasting their logo on.

-Derek

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Kiwanda wrote:
>>
>> Of course, a real woodworker would just build one. By a neck,
>> build a body, and install a pre-wired set up pups from
Stewart-
>> Macdonald and you'll have a better guitar then anything Squire
>> ever dreamed of pasting their logo on.
>>
>> -Derek
>
> Balderdash! A real woodworker would carve his own neck >
straight from
> a piece of Honduras Mohagany (none of that maple stuff for a >>
neck),
> lay a nice slab of rosewood over it and painstakingly cut each
>fret
> in.

Sure, but that would mean buying tools that the OP likely doesn't
have $$$ for. Building necks isn't that easy without tools, esp.
if you want to install a truss rod. But you can get a nice
Warmouth neck for $100, then bolt it on to a body made with
common WW tools.

>As far as the pups go, I'll let ya slide on that one even though
> pre-wired is not really craftsmanlike. Better than a Squire -
>hell
> you could leave the neck off and have a better guitar than the
Squire.

Remember the OP wanted cheap. Of course you can do better
yourself, even buying old pups off Ebay. But this guy didn't
sound like he knew much about guitars or WW, so it might be
better to say "assemble" a guitar instead of "build."

Think about Bo Diddly's guitars...big slabs of wood, cut square,
and bolted to stock necks. They sound just fine.

-Derek

Reyd <[email protected]> wrote in news:Reyd-E5044B.14381216042004
@shawnews.gv.shawcable.net:
>> Of course, a real woodworker would just build one. By a neck,
>> build a body, and install a pre-wired set up pups from
Stewart-
>> Macdonald and you'll have a better guitar then anything Squire
>> ever dreamed of pasting their logo on.

> I thought about that, but the routing for the insides always
>frightened me off.

Stew-Mac has a nice selection of unfinished but pre-routed
bodies. See http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bodies,_necks,
_wood/Electric_guitar:_Bodies.html.If you dig through their web
page, you'll find strat necks for about $100, nice bodies for
$150, and pre-wired p'ups for $40 or so. By the time you buy a
bridge and tuners you'd be into it for about $400 though.

If I were "building" a guitar this way, it would be a tele. The
low-end Mexican Fenders run close to $400, and you can do much
better building your own in that price range.

$160 Curly maple body: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bodies,_necks,
_wood/Electric_guitar:_Bodies/Tele_Bodies.html

$115 rosewood tele neck: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bodies,
_necks,_wood/Electric_guitar:Necks/Replacement_Neck_for_Tele.html

$40 bridge http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,
_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_non-
trem_bridges/Modern_Tele_Bridges.html

$77 Wilkinson pickups: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,
_pickups/Pickups:_Guitar,_electric/Wilkinson_Single-
coil_Pickups_For_Tele.html

$50 switch/knobs/pots: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,
_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs.html

$30 tuners: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,
_solid_peghead/Gotoh_Oval_Knob_Tuners.html

$25 misc (screws, etc.)

Call it $500 for a maple-bodied tele with your choice of wiring
and finish. All my electics (and my bass) are natural finishes,
so I'd do the same with this. While $500 is getting into the
price range of a decent new guitar or-- with careful shopping and
luck --a good used one, you'd likely not find anything of the
quality you could build at the same price.

Unless you had a time machine of course. In 1986 I could have
bought either a new Fender '59 Strat reissue, a new PRS (don't
recall the model), or a near-new Les Paul Standard for $500 all
w/cases. I waffled about that for a month, but ended up buying
the LP. I still have it, but now wish I'd have bought them all.

-Derek

-Derek

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:26:51 GMT, Steve Knight
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>>$89 pre-cut/semi-shaped kit on Ebay.
>>What's to KNOW? ;)
>
>well you still have to build it and understand how it works (G) I got a pretty
>good trade going for a used bass.

(looks down, shuffles feet) Will he play it for her, too?


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Life is full of little surprises. * Comprehensive Website Development
--Pandora * http://www.diversify.com

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 02:00:46 GMT, Steve Knight
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:

>
>>Of course, a real woodworker would just build one. By a neck,
>>build a body, and install a pre-wired set up pups from Stewart-
>>Macdonald and you'll have a better guitar then anything Squire
>>ever dreamed of pasting their logo on.
>
>if this real world woodworker knew anything about them (G)

$89 pre-cut/semi-shaped kit on Ebay.
What's to KNOW? ;)


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Life is full of little surprises. * Comprehensive Website Development
--Pandora * http://www.diversify.com

>Of course, a real woodworker would just build one. By a neck,
>build a body, and install a pre-wired set up pups from Stewart-
>Macdonald and you'll have a better guitar then anything Squire
>ever dreamed of pasting their logo on.

if this real world woodworker knew anything about them (G)

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Reyd wrote:
>
> Really? that I did not know, the store I bought it from didn't tell me
> anything about that, I took it back to them when the pickups started
> acting up, after their return policy was up(30days IIRC) and they
> asked me what I expected for 250$, needless to say I don't feel they
> need my buisness after that comment.

If you bought it new you should have received warranty information with it.
Take a stroll out to the epi web site. You'll find the warranty info there.
Oh yeah - I wouldn't be spending any more of my money in a music store that
displays the attitude these guys gave you...

> with the fender type, the pull is much reduced on that joint, this is
> not normally an issue, but with transporting the guitar around if the
> neck is banged it has a much better chance of coming apart.(and
> epiphone, perhaps with their head in certain dark places saw fit to
> charge 30$ for a soft case that was much too small as part of the set)
> and the squire is a much harder wood in the neck, again this is only
> based on 5 instruments(3 squires and 2 epiphones) a friend also got a
> similar epiphone with problems too.

Both use maple necks so the wood is equally hard. The epi most likely has a
rosewood fretboard overlaid on the maple, but the neck is a good maple.
Most strat knockoffs just use a maple neck with maple fretboards. No
increase in strength just a different feel under your fingers and a
different tone. Tell your friend that if he's got neck problems with his
epi to take it to a good guitar tech and have it tuned. The wood moves with
weather and that's just the nature of wood. Like I said my guitar moves and
I assure you it's not a cheap guitar. Because it's wood and wood has it's
own way of wanting to move and its own way of responding to forced movement,
you need to be careful and only adjust a neck about a quarter of an inch per
day or so on the truss rod. If the neck is way out, it could take a couple
of days to bring it back in an achieve the stability you need. That goes
for any guitar neck.

> my teacher adjusted the rod, and then after a few days recommended the
> cardstock underneath, it worked when the truss rod didn't.

It's always possible that a nut is cut too low, but very unlikely. I'd
still look at additional truss rod adjustments - see above comments about
wood movement.

> indeed, but I do think you might agree that pink is a rather awful
> colour for a guitar, besides the plastic look which most paint jobs
> end up with.

Fully agreed.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

>$89 pre-cut/semi-shaped kit on Ebay.
>What's to KNOW? ;)

well you still have to build it and understand how it works (G) I got a pretty
good trade going for a used bass.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Reyd wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> > My 0.02$CAN
> > stay away from epiphone brand, I bought one for my first guitar(about
> > 2 years ago, whe I was 14) It was great for the first year, but It
> > is not as good as the Squires.
>
> FWIW, Epiphone has a much better reputation in guitar circles than Squire.

Agreed - Epi's come a long way since the 70's...

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:36:57 GMT, "mttt" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Kiwanda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>
>> Think about Bo Diddly's guitars...big slabs of wood, cut square,
>> and bolted to stock necks. They sound just fine.

Let's not forget that Bo builds his effects into the guitar. <G>

I've had the pleasure of mixing his band 5-6 times, it was always a
blast!

Barry

>(looks down, shuffles feet) Will he play it for her, too?

yes that's included in the trade (G)

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Reyd wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> My 0.02$CAN
> stay away from epiphone brand, I bought one for my first guitar(about
> 2 years ago, whe I was 14) It was great for the first year, but It
> is not as good as the Squires.

FWIW, Epiphone has a much better reputation in guitar circles than Squire.
You may have had a bad experience with one but that does not make the entire
brand suspect. In the world of knock off guitars, you will find many more
players, even good ones, playing Epiphone Les Paul knock offs than you will
find playing Squire Strat knock offs. Wonder why that is? BTW, you'll also
find a lot of players playing other brands of Les Paul knock offs which are
better than Epi - look for a 70's vintage Ibanez.

> and about twice the price.(250$CAN
> IIRC) the neck joint is coming apart, poorly designed, and the canted
> back head means the string tension really tries to pull it apart

Don't know why your neck joint is coming apart, but if the guitar is only 2
years old, take it back. Epiphones come with a limited lifetime warranty so
if there really is something wrong with the neck or the pocket that's
causing separation, Epi/Gibson will fix it. As to the headstock - that is
the standard Les Paul backangle. The string tension is just fine and it
does not try to pull the headstock apart. This design is 50 years old and
is the single most copied and successful design in the world of guitars. It
can be a bit fragile - Les Pauls are known for breaking the headstock if
they get dropped, but then again, you're not supposed to drop your axe.

, the
> electronics were bad, treble/rhythm(which pick up you use) didn't
> work, neither did the treble pickup, turned out the wires were
> touching inside,

Electronics (really - pickups and switches in a LP knock off) are a weak
point on an Epi, but only compared to more expensive guitars. Be assured,
the pickups in those Squires are not of the same quality as the pickups on a
branded Fender Strat. That's the world of economy guitars. You don't trade
off price without trading off quality. As to the wires touching - you've
got a point there. Should never have passed QC - but then again, that kind
of thing does happen, every day.


the jack on the bottom comes loose all the time, the
> bridge is screwy,

The bridge is a standard TuneOMatic bridge design. You just have to know
how to tune it. It's not a difficult thing but if you're used to Strat
style bridges, or trem bridges, then an LP style bride might seem "screwy".


and the nut was too low(I had to knock it off with
> a chisel and glue some cardstock in to stop it buzzing on the low
> frets.

???? Knock it off with a chisel and then build it up with cardstock? That
makes no sense. Did you try to adjust the truss rod first? Low fret buzz
is a sign of a problem with neck tension. All guitars experience this with
changes in temperature and humidity. My electric is a $3,000 custom built
guitar and I have to tweak my truss rod twice a year as the seasons change.
Changing string guages will also cause problems like this since you're
really altering the relationship between the frets and the strings when you
change guages. Same fix - setup the neck and setup the bridge.

so a nice looking les paul imitation, but not worth the 6
> months of work to pay back the parents:-)

That's always the hard part.

> also, it is a tad on the heavy side,

That would be the Les Paul style... a real man's guitar... ugh!

as are all the les paul style
> ones, and the round neck really makes you want to wrap your hand
> around instead of trying for proper posture. I do quite like the
> squires, they are one of the most reliable brands, and a very decent
> starting guitar, my friend had one and he has used it hard, no signs
> of serious damage yet, and at 99$CAN used from a music store store
> was pretty good.

I'm sure it is serving him well. It all depends on what you want out of a
guitar. Squires will never sound like an Epi but it all depends on what
you're looking for in sound. As for reliability, they are far from the most
reliable brand, but like I said, if it works, it works. As well, there are
millions of Epi's out there serving just as well, being put through just as
much hard work.

> so to boil it down; squires are my reccomendation, come in all colours
> reliable cheap decent resale value when upgrading occurs and very
> good. there are nicer brands(yamaha, Ibanez, Gibson etc) but at this
> time go for the cheaper one. try to convince her that red is a
> better colour, after about a year or two I'd bet she won't want a
> pink one anymore<G>

I'd place that Ibanez you mention above as the best economy guitar for the
money. It's the best built of all of the economy-to-mid range guitars out
there, has a very decent resale value, decent styling, excellent
playability, excellent sound. As to color - red is cool - definately cool,
but Tiger or Quilted Maple over Honduras Mohagany is soooo much cooler.
There - we got it back on topic - got the wood part in there.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Kiwanda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>

> Think about Bo Diddly's guitars...big slabs of wood, cut square,
> and bolted to stock necks. They sound just fine.

Awww heck - thanks for that.
Now I'll have the Bo Riff in my head for the rest of the morning.
Might was well slap in a George Thorogood CD...

Whacka, whacka, whacka - whack whack.
Whacka, whacka, whacka - whack whack.