Sawstop delivered!

It's not about believing, it's about being forced to comply.

Leon wrote:

> For the non believers, this probably will not bee enough proof. LOL
>
> It is a great looking saw.

You'll be able to afford one after that saw failed...

sandman wrote:

> I want one so I can park it next to my Porsche....wait...I don't have a
> Porsche...shit...

I missed X-Files...

Leon wrote:

> Watch out for the black helicopters....

The orthopedic surgeon who worked on my finger when I had my table saw
injury specializes in fingers and toes. He said his number one source
of business was due to feet going into lawn mowers, but his number two
was table saw injuries. This guy isn't just an ER doctor, he is the
specialist they called from the ER when they needed to put my finger
back together, so he isn't talking about the people who bang their head
on their saw. My injury probably didn't qualify as an "amputation"
since it wasn't totally cut off, but it was nonetheless more serious
than bumping into the corner of the table or whatever. I guess I'm
saying that there are probably lots and lots of serious injuries that
are not "amputations" every year. My injury for instance was about as
trivial as one could hope for when a hand goes into a table saw blade,
but it was still pretty awful and cost about $6000 by the time I was
done with it. This guy who worked on me serves Cambridge and Somerville
(Boston metro area), which have a combined population of ~175,000.
-Holly

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:52:22 GMT, "Chris Melanson"
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Trouble is, "User tests" are not going to be deliberate. You wreck the
blade and the unit, and have to replace both.

We really cannot sit around waiting for many reports. If there are a
lot then there is a lot of bad work being done, and each test is very
expensive.

>Congrats Ted
>Keep us posted on the overall performance it would be good to get some
>independent reviews by someone who is actually using one. Hopefully the only
>test it gets is with a wiener and not a finger.
>
>Chris Melanson
>
>"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Sawstop has delivered.
>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>> --
>> Ted Harris
>> http://www.tedharris.com
>>
>>
>

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:35:24 GMT, [email protected] calmly
ranted:

>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Sawstop has delivered.
>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>
>At last! Now we can start getting some better information on this
>thing.

Let the class action lawsuits begin!

--
***********************************************************
"Boy, I feel safer now that Martha Stewart is behind bars!
O.J. is walking around free, Osama Bin Laden too, but they
take the one woman in America willing to cook and clean
and work in the yard and haul her ass to jail."
--Tim Allen
***********************************************************

In news:[email protected] <[email protected]> typed:
> "Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
> 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
> fly with a club.
> -- John W. Cambell Jr.

LOL...
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:Todd Fatheree <[email protected]> typed:
> "ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Sawstop has delivered.
>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>> --
>> Ted Harris
>> http://www.tedharris.com
>
> Beef about SawStop all you want (and I have), but that is a nice looking
> saw, IMO.
>
> todd

I wasn't beefing about it. Just expressing my joy!
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:35:24 GMT, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Sawstop has delivered.
>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>
> At last! Now we can start getting some better information on this
> thing.

...from someone other than Sawstop and their shills...

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:34:03 GMT, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:09:07 GMT, "Leon"
><[email protected]> wrote:

>>For the non believers, this probably will not bee enough proof. LOL

Yup, it isn't. But it's a start.

> The proof will come as the result of testing and experience in the
> field. I'd also be interested in seeing a detailed examination of the
> production version.

Yes. Time will tell. I'd love to see pics of the internals. If it
is actually a decent saw _with_ a potential safety feature, great.
But...I notice that sawstop's website still says "SawStop is now
taking preorders on it's 10" Table Saws!"
^^^^^^^^^
Following the link through, it looks like I still can't get one,
despite this whoever guy getting one delievered to his shop. Anyone
know what the deal is, then?

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:29:12 GMT, Ba r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:32:43 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I'll be more interested in the magazine tests.
>
> Not me. I want to hear from real world users, on two-way forums like
> this.

I want to see something other than "click here to pre-order" on the site.

Chris Melanson wrote:

> Congrats Ted
> Keep us posted on the overall performance it would be good to get some
> independent reviews by someone who is actually using one. Hopefully the
> only test it gets is with a wiener and not a finger.

I'd rather cut my finger with it than my wiener!

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:35:24 GMT, [email protected]
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Sawstop has delivered.
>>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>>
>> At last! Now we can start getting some better information on this
>> thing.
>
> ...from someone other than Sawstop and their shills...

By the vehement tone and implications in your post I would guess that it
must suck to be you.
--
Ted Harris---a shill for no one...
http://www.tedharris.com

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:23:59 -0800, ted harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:

>> ...from someone other than Sawstop and their shills...

> By the vehement tone and implications in your post I would guess that it
> must suck to be you.

It's fantastic to be me, Ted, but thanks for asking. I'd love for this
thing to work. Really, I would. But one unit shipped while I still
can't buy one if I wanted to means it's not available, don't you agree?

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:26:15 -0800, AAvK <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> I want to see something other than "click here to pre-order" on the site.
>>
>
> ...Then read their FAQ, read how the safety system works and watch the little movies there. I did.

Yeah, me too...about 4 years ago. It's still not available to order.

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:55:19 -0500, Paul Kierstead <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> You are not, indeed; you seem pretty reasonable to me. I am entirely
> baffled how people can get their panties in such a knot over the
> invention of a tablesaw safety device or -- for that matter -- the fact
> the company has been slow getting it to market.

Seriously, Paul, my problem with them is that it seems to be all show and
no deliver, _and_, while it's still not a real product, they are trying to
have the government force it on everyone. It'd be different if it was
a real product with a proven track record.

> You would think it was a
> massive insult to them or something. What is the deal here? Sheesh, they
> must be homicidal about seatbelts. I can't imagine how much they froth
> at the mouth about anti-lock brakes, hearing protection or -- god help
> us -- eye protection.

Ah, but all of those (a) exist, and (b) work.

Dave Hinz

In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:23:59 -0800, ted harris
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>
>>> ...from someone other than Sawstop and their shills...
>
>> By the vehement tone and implications in your post I would guess that it
>> must suck to be you.
>
> It's fantastic to be me, Ted, but thanks for asking. I'd love for this
> thing to work. Really, I would. But one unit shipped while I still
> can't buy one if I wanted to means it's not available, don't you agree?

Do you think that only one unit was shipped? Why don't you quit all the
drama and just accept that the product is being delivered in spite of your
pessimism?
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:26:15 -0800, AAvK <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I want to see something other than "click here to pre-order" on the
>>> site.
>>>
>>
>> ...Then read their FAQ, read how the safety system works and watch the
>> little movies there. I did.
>
> Yeah, me too...about 4 years ago. It's still not available to order.

Everyone agrees that it took quite some time to deliver. Next...
Who are you blaming that you aren't getting yours right now and over the
next several months, like the other 800 or so that "pre-ordered" the
machine?
Looks to me like you should be blaming yourself for clicking on that button,
IMHO.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> Seriously, Paul, my problem with them is that it seems to be all show and
> no deliver, _and_, while it's still not a real product, they are trying to
> have the government force it on everyone. It'd be different if it was
> a real product with a proven track record.
>
> Ah, but all of those (a) exist, and (b) work.
>
> Dave Hinz

Sawstop is being delivered. May I suggest that if you don't like the way
sawstop has entered the market, then you don't buy it.
Sir, you have absolutely lost touch with reality. Are you taking
medication?
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:Vic Baron <[email protected]> typed:
> Let's just let it go and say that you really,really like the SawStop and I
> find it a non essential add-on. Plus I do NOT like the attitude of the
> company or it's representatives.

Bye-bye now.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:Rich <[email protected]> typed:
> Can this thread just die? I'm kind of new here but this has gone on for
> way to long. There are two camps one that wants to idiot proof something
> that has never been idiot proofed before and the other that thinks that it
> doesn't need to be idiot proofed (I'm in that group). It seems to be like
> arguing religion with someone of a different faith, neither will win!
>
> Just my $.02 worth..

Sawstop will not make anything idiot proof. It is simply another safety
device, and well spent money, IMHO. The winners will be the people that
step up to the plate and buy it.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:ted harris <[email protected]> typed:
> Looks to me like you should be blaming yourself for clicking on that
> button, IMHO.

replace "clicking" with not clicking."
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:47:52 -0800, ted harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:23:59 -0800, ted harris

>> It's fantastic to be me, Ted, but thanks for asking. I'd love for this
>> thing to work. Really, I would. But one unit shipped while I still
>> can't buy one if I wanted to means it's not available, don't you agree?

> Do you think that only one unit was shipped? Why don't you quit all the
> drama and just accept that the product is being delivered in spite of your
> pessimism?

It's still "click here to pre-order", Ted. Wake me if that changes.

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:51:53 -0800, ted harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:26:15 -0800, AAvK <[email protected]> wrote:

>>> ...Then read their FAQ, read how the safety system works and watch the
>>> little movies there. I did.

>> Yeah, me too...about 4 years ago. It's still not available to order.

> Everyone agrees that it took quite some time to deliver. Next...

As in "still not shipping", yes.

> Who are you blaming that you aren't getting yours right now and over the
> next several months, like the other 800 or so that "pre-ordered" the
> machine?

Where did I say I have pre-ordered? I don't buy vaporware, Ted, and
I don't take kindly to vendors trying to mandate something people
can't buy yet.

> Looks to me like you should be blaming yourself for clicking on that button,
> IMHO.

Looks to me like you need to work on your reading comprehension.

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:59:15 -0800, ted harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>>
>> Ah, but all of those (a) exist, and (b) work.
>
> Sawstop is being delivered. May I suggest that if you don't like the way
> sawstop has entered the market, then you don't buy it.

I couldn't if I wanted to, ted. Unless the page changed since thursday.

> Sir, you have absolutely lost touch with reality. Are you taking
> medication?

Show me where I can buy the thing, Ted. Some random guy with a blog who
got one, doesn't mean that production units are shipping.

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:24:01 -0800, CW <[email protected]> wrote:
> Without a 1, 2 is not going to happen. Skipped grade school eh?

Ted contents that some guy with a blog getting a unit, means that prod
units are shipping. I disagree with his statement.

In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:51:53 -0800, ted harris
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>>> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:26:15 -0800, AAvK <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> ...Then read their FAQ, read how the safety system works and watch the
>>>> little movies there. I did.
>
>>> Yeah, me too...about 4 years ago. It's still not available to order.
>
>> Everyone agrees that it took quite some time to deliver. Next...
>
> As in "still not shipping", yes.
>
>> Who are you blaming that you aren't getting yours right now and over the
>> next several months, like the other 800 or so that "pre-ordered" the
>> machine?
>
> Where did I say I have pre-ordered? I don't buy vaporware, Ted, and
> I don't take kindly to vendors trying to mandate something people
> can't buy yet.

Maybe you should be working on YOUR reading comprehension. The point is you
did not pre-order, and now it is getting delivered. You must be pissed
off because you didn't.

>
>> Looks to me like you should be blaming yourself for clicking on that
>> button, IMHO.
>
> Looks to me like you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Sorry, but I left out "not clicking."
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:59:15 -0800, ted harris
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>>>
>>> Ah, but all of those (a) exist, and (b) work.
>>
>> Sawstop is being delivered. May I suggest that if you don't like the way
>> sawstop has entered the market, then you don't buy it.
>
> I couldn't if I wanted to, ted. Unless the page changed since thursday.
>
>> Sir, you have absolutely lost touch with reality. Are you taking
>> medication?
>
> Show me where I can buy the thing, Ted. Some random guy with a blog who
> got one, doesn't mean that production units are shipping.

You must be a bit slow or something. Do you think only one unit shipped?
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:Doug Miller <[email protected]> typed:
> In article <[email protected]>, "ted harris"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Maybe you should be working on YOUR reading comprehension. The point is
>>you did not pre-order, and now it is getting delivered. You must be
>>pissed off because you didn't.
>
> I haven't seen any proof, so far, that they've shipped more than one unit
> to
> an actual customer. Nor have I seen any proof that that unit was an actual
> production unit, and not a prototype.

Well then, I guess you haven't been checking the original link I posted at
Sawmill Creek then, huh?

<snip>

> Wake me up when they've actually shipped fifty production units to actual
> customers.

Wake yourself up.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

In news:Doug Miller <[email protected]> typed:
> In article <[email protected]>, "ted harris"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>You must be a bit slow or something. Do you think only one unit shipped?
>
> Do you have any evidence that they've shipped *more* than one?

<snip Bullsh**>

Why don't you do the research and find out for yourself?
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:32:59 -0800, ted harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:51:53 -0800, ted harris
>>
>> Where did I say I have pre-ordered? I don't buy vaporware, Ted, and
>> I don't take kindly to vendors trying to mandate something people
>> can't buy yet.
>
> Maybe you should be working on YOUR reading comprehension. The point is you
> did not pre-order, and now it is getting delivered. You must be pissed
> off because you didn't.

No, I'm annoyed that you seem to claim that "click here to pre-order"
means I could buy one if I wanted to. It doesn't, and I can't. (and
I don't, but that's beside the point)

>>> Looks to me like you should be blaming yourself for clicking on that
>>> button, IMHO.
>
>> Looks to me like you need to work on your reading comprehension.

> Sorry, but I left out "not clicking."

Doesn't change your ignorance, Ted. They're trying to have laws passed
to force me to use something that I can't buy. It's really quite
simple. Because of that inarguable history, I'm unlikely to ever be
a customer.

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:37:29 -0800, ted harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:59:15 -0800, ted harris

>> Show me where I can buy the thing, Ted. Some random guy with a blog who
>> got one, doesn't mean that production units are shipping.
>
> You must be a bit slow or something. Do you think only one unit shipped?

What part of "show me" aren't you comprehending here, sparky?

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:01:33 -0500, J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:

>> Given the company's track record so far, it's not too much of a stretch of
>> the imagination to suppose that the one unit we've seen evidence of so far
>> is a prototype, shipped in order to appear to be in actual production so
>> as to keep their venture capitalists from turning off the flow of money
>> just yet.
>
> I would hope that the venture capitalists were scrutinizing a bit more
> diligently than _that_.

Remember the whole dot-bomb thing a few years ago? Venture cap isn't
always all that careful.

In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
> No, I'm annoyed that you seem to claim that "click here to pre-order"
> means I could buy one if I wanted to. It doesn't, and I can't. (and
> I don't, but that's beside the point)

> Doesn't change your ignorance

There is just no reasoning with some people.
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:28:15 -0500, Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Remember the whole dot-bomb thing a few years ago? Venture cap isn't
>> always all that careful.
>
> Well, they used to be before Al Gore got the world all excited with that new
> invention of his. I suspect they are once again after that dot-bomb scam.

To be fair, Gore only said "I took the initiative in creating the Internet",
not that he said he "invented" it. I'm told by apologists that this
differs somehow.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 07:23:46 -0800, ted harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> In news:Dave Hinz <[email protected]> typed:
>> No, I'm annoyed that you seem to claim that "click here to pre-order"
>> means I could buy one if I wanted to. It doesn't, and I can't. (and
>> I don't, but that's beside the point)
>
>> Doesn't change your ignorance
>
> There is just no reasoning with some people.

Agreed. Why don't you show me when it says "Click here to order", Ted.
Until then, it's just another demo unit in some random guy's blog.

"Leon" wrote in message

> gave me some figures to ponder. The ER plastic surgeon that worked on me
> indicated that the TS accidents are quite common and he himself probably
saw
> an injury daily. He estimated at least 1,000 yearly in that location
alone.


One of my BIL's, who is currently an ER physician, refers to woodworking
tools, and the table saw in particular, as "job security".

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

So everyone that has an accident is an idiot? Safety features are not
idiot proofing.

I see it as reducing the odds that even a careful person may still have
a very bad accident as a result of moving a bit too fast, being a bit
too tired, being distracted and just the wrong time, etc. All safety
features are an effort to reduce these odds, from back up chutes for
skydivers to inflatable buoyancy devices for scuba divers. This is
prudence, not idiot proofing.

Rich wrote:
> Can this thread just die? I'm kind of new here but this has gone on for way
> to long. There are two camps one that wants to idiot proof something that
> has never been idiot proofed before and the other that thinks that it
> doesn't need to be idiot proofed (I'm in that group). It seems to be like
> arguing religion with someone of a different faith, neither will win!
>
> Just my $.02 worth..
>
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>>Considering in a prior post you mentioned having a second accident
>>
>>No, I did not say I had a second accident. I stated that I made the same
>>mistake again. No harm done.
>>
>>
>>- yes I'm ignorant of the fact that someone could be dumb enough to make
>>the same
>>
>>>mistake twice. You'd BETTER get the SawStop - sounds like YOU need it,
>>>lefty. Better still - wanna sell your table saw?
>>
>>You bet I will sell it. It is yours for $2800. U.S It is a 4 year old
>>Jet cabinet saw, I'll throw in the WWII blade, mobile base and 15 roller
>>outfeed table.
>>
>>
>>>You missed the point completely, as you have with several of your posts.
>>
>>What point exactly? I am simply not judging a book by its cover or
>>playing pile on the under dog.
>>
>>
>>>Let's just let it go and say that you really,really like the SawStop.
>>
>>That would be your assumption. I really have no reason to like the
>>SawStop nor any reason not to like it as I have no hands on experience
>>with it and neither do you I suspect. But I will not damn the product
>>because of the way it is brought to market. The company is absolutely
>>working within its rights.
>>
>>and I
>>
>>>find it a non essential add-on.
>>
>>Plus I do NOT like the attitude of the
>>
>>>company or it's representatives.
>>
>>No kidding....
>>
>>>Sheesh!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Can this thread just die? I'm kind of new here but this has gone on for way
to long. There are two camps one that wants to idiot proof something that
has never been idiot proofed before and the other that thinks that it
doesn't need to be idiot proofed (I'm in that group). It seems to be like
arguing religion with someone of a different faith, neither will win!

Just my $.02 worth..


"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Considering in a prior post you mentioned having a second accident
>
> No, I did not say I had a second accident. I stated that I made the same
> mistake again. No harm done.
>
>
> - yes I'm ignorant of the fact that someone could be dumb enough to make
> the same
>> mistake twice. You'd BETTER get the SawStop - sounds like YOU need it,
>> lefty. Better still - wanna sell your table saw?
>
> You bet I will sell it. It is yours for $2800. U.S It is a 4 year old
> Jet cabinet saw, I'll throw in the WWII blade, mobile base and 15 roller
> outfeed table.
>
>> You missed the point completely, as you have with several of your posts.
>
> What point exactly? I am simply not judging a book by its cover or
> playing pile on the under dog.
>
>> Let's just let it go and say that you really,really like the SawStop.
>
> That would be your assumption. I really have no reason to like the
> SawStop nor any reason not to like it as I have no hands on experience
> with it and neither do you I suspect. But I will not damn the product
> because of the way it is brought to market. The company is absolutely
> working within its rights.
>
> and I
>> find it a non essential add-on.
> Plus I do NOT like the attitude of the
>> company or it's representatives.
>
> No kidding....
>>
>> Sheesh!
>>
>>
>
>

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Mike, you certainly a level headed view of the situation

Well, I'll have to do something about that...

> but visit an ER or
> an occupational emergency clinic and talk to one of the doctors on hand.

In matters like these, I base a lot of what I feel on 12 years of experience
as a Trauma and Cardiac Medic where I attended to all sorts of accidents and
results from stupidity. Not all of what I believe, but it is a factor.
I've taken in traumatic amputations, and all sorts of deep cuts. Most
seemed to have been from circular saws if I remember correctly. The
nastyist were from chain saws. Most of the circular saw accidents I saw
were (again - working from recall here), contractors who got too casual in
the use of their tools, were cut in associating with some form of falling or
losing balance with the tool in hand, or believe it or not - from too much
beer in the cooler. You typically didn't see the later on a real job site,
but it was common enough when the pro was doing some weekend work with the
buddies.

> Because this is not really sensational, you will seldom hear of the
> accidents on the news. After my accident it seems everyone that I talked
to
> that are in the trades have a story to tell about an accident and more
often
> than not the accident included a tool with a circular blade. Typically
the
> hand injuries were with the TS. It was not until I understood the actual
> number of injuries involving a TS that I began to believe that it was more
a
> matter of time over skill. 15 years ago the local ER that I ended up at
> gave me some figures to ponder. The ER plastic surgeon that worked on me
> indicated that the TS accidents are quite common and he himself probably
saw
> an injury daily. He estimated at least 1,000 yearly in that location
alone.
>
>

An injury a day would nothing short of surprise me. Shock me even. Perhaps
astound me. Ok, so I'm easily moved. Nonetheless, you must live in a
pretty large metro area I would guess, in order to see that type of injury
level. Maybe not - just struck me as a high number.

FWIW, my thoughts on the sawstop concept are kind of mixed. I certainly do
not care for the forced approach they are taking, though the Capitalist in
me can admire it to a degree. The rebel in me is in conflict with that when
I realize it could affect me personally. I'm not really against the design
concept, though I've been around long enough to be wary or big promises,
demos, etc. I am certainly in the "wait and see what it really proves to
be" mode right now. I'd hope they could come up with an alternative design
that is less destructive. I'm really not a big fan of how brutal this thing
is in it's approach. I can see a lot of damage to some pretty good table
saws coming from this type of approach. Maybe not. Time will tell. A lot
of good designs didn't start out as elegant as they evolved to be, and that
could well be the case with this product. I'm interested in seeing what
release 2.7 or 3.14.2.79 brings. The only other real objection I have right
now is that it *seems* (admittedly, I have only taken a couple of token
looks at this thing) that they are heavily leveraging the fears of
woodworkers and gouging pretty good on the prices. As much as I believe in
safety, and in profit, there is no need to take the consumer to the
cleaners. Again - time and production may help that problem.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> IMHO, they are selling fear. All the touts who espose the product begin
> with
> ' if you had an accident with your saw you sure would wish you had
> sawstop".
> That's what irks me, that and their blatant attempt to use the court to
> make
> a profit. If they're so altruistic then they should give it away.
> Considering the number of saws in use and the number of accidents I wonder
> what the probability is of having one.
>
> For those people who feel the need for the product and are willing to deal
> with it's shortcomings, I say go for it. It's your money and your wiener.
> For me, it's not worth the effort. FWIW, I also didn't build a bomb
> shelter
> many years ago when that was the current safety craze.

Never have had a bad accident have you?

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:55:19 -0500, Paul Kierstead
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

>You are not, indeed; you seem pretty reasonable to me. I am entirely
>baffled how people can get their panties in such a knot over the
>invention of a tablesaw safety device or -- for that matter -- the fact
>the company has been slow getting it to market.

If it were that simple, I agree. But before they had it to market,
they were trying to get it in by law. They also seem to have had it on
the _market_ (asking for forward payment), but not "on the shelves".
That is not the same as being slow to market it.

>You would think it was a
>massive insult to them or something. What is the deal here? Sheesh, they
>must be homicidal about seatbelts. I can't imagine how much they froth
>at the mouth about anti-lock brakes, hearing protection or -- god help
>us -- eye protection.

Many people _did_ froth about all of those things. 40% or some such
figure of people in the rural areas of Oz who die in accidents are not
wearing seatbelts. Whether this indicates the true power of seatbelts,
or the fact that the the people who do not wear seatbelts are also far
more likely to speed/drink/be silly is in question, of course.

I think the problem is that the seatbelts, and now even ABS do not
significantly (+5%) add to the cost of the vehicle. I do not believe
that a Sawstop can be _fitted_ to a TS for the $50-100 dollars
claimed. I could be wrong. Also, the vehicle makers put them in very
expensive cars, for many years, before they attempted to foist them on
the public by law. I see Sawstop have done just that.

Without a 1, 2 is not going to happen. Skipped grade school eh?

"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:23:59 -0800, ted harris
<[email protected]> wrote:
> It's fantastic to be me, Ted, but thanks for asking. I'd love for this
> thing to work. Really, I would. But one unit shipped while I still
> can't buy one if I wanted to means it's not available, don't you agree?

"Sean Dinh" <"seanny"@[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It's not about believing, it's about being forced to comply.


Watch out for the black helicopters....

IIRC the current issue of FWW has a review on the saw.



<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:57:21 -0800, Larry Jaques
> <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:35:24 GMT, [email protected] calmly
>>ranted:
>>
>>>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Sawstop has delivered.
>>>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>>>
>>>At last! Now we can start getting some better information on this
>>>thing.
>>
>>Let the class action lawsuits begin!
>
> I'll be more interested in the magazine tests.
> I just hope some moron doesn't try to repeat the demonstration where
> the inventor deliberately ran his finger into the blade.
>
> --RC
>
> "Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
> 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
> fly with a club.
> -- John W. Cambell Jr.

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> True, but if you shut the saw down, then you really need to continue to
>> pay
>> attention until it stops because if you shut it off, you are obviously
>> done
>> with your cut.
>
> Sure, but reaching for the cutoff has taken many a bite of skin with it.
> Of course no matter how much something is idiot proofed, the work will
> create a bigger and better idiot.


LOL.. Good call Edwin. Seems the SawStop has already shown that this is
true. People are already trying to figure out a way to prove it
ineffective.

"TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already
> not
> moving, how can it help you? If it drops the blade into the table, the
> dropping blade can still cut you on the way down and now you get the added
> insult of spending $50 to replace the charge for no real help at all.

HUH? The saw does not have to be turnrd on for the blade to be spinning. I
was injured after turning the saw off and before the blade coasted down to a
stop. In this instance the SawStop would have prevented my injury.

>> > What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?
>>
>> This could also be easily handled by a motion detector or something like
> the
>> centripical device that engauges or disingauges the start capacitors in
>> induction motors.
>
> Again, what would be the point?

The point of what? Having a motion detector? If that is what you are
talking about, the motion detector to detect the spinning blade would enable
the system. If no "predetermined" minimum speed is detected by the motion
detector the system would be disabled. This would prevent the system from
tripping when changing blades or turning the blade by hand.

Now you would be creating a substantial
> increase in the cost of the machine with no real benefit at all.

I suspect this is already built in for the purpose stated above and a motion
decector or speed sensor would be inexpensive. Almost every automobile has
a speed sensor at the crankshaft to determine timing. Same thing could be
used here. A magnet and a sensor.

No safety
> device in the world can protect someone from their own laziness or
> stupidity
> and it really is up to the woodworker to understand what they are working
> with and to pay attention and be careful, even when the machine is not
> running.

Exactly but the more safety you have built in, the less likely you or I or
any one else will be injured. And don't even think that you are 100% not
lazy or stupid when operating any equipment 100% of the time. You are
probably human like every one else and are not capable of not making a
mistake.

Congrats Ted
Keep us posted on the overall performance it would be good to get some
independent reviews by someone who is actually using one. Hopefully the only
test it gets is with a wiener and not a finger.

Chris Melanson

"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sawstop has delivered.
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
> --
> Ted Harris
> http://www.tedharris.com
>
>

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can this thread just die? I'm kind of new here but this has gone on for
> way to long. There are two camps one that wants to idiot proof something
> that has never been idiot proofed before and the other that thinks that it
> doesn't need to be idiot proofed (I'm in that group). It seems to be like
> arguing religion with someone of a different faith, neither will win!
>
> Just my $.02 worth..

Your are right Rich there are those that that will never change their minds.

If you are tired of seeing this thread or reading this thread, simply ignore
it.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> I agreed with most of what you said in the reply that I snipped this from
> Leon, except this part. I believe that most people who don't jump on
> every
> single new thing or practice just because it pretends to be in the name of
> safety is less because they place all of their confidence in any of the
> points you mentioned, than it is because they feel that these things
> outweigh the marginal gain that a particular device or practice might
> afford. As to given enough time, everyone's time will come? Well, that's
> kind of hard to embrace. It may come, that's for sure. I realize that
> everytime I use one of my tools. I think about it when I grab a 4 in
> grinder, use a table saw, a welder, or any number of other things. I
> don't
> let it petrify me or drive me to embrace every idea that comes along. I
> guess the threat has to seem real enough to me in order to warrant that I
> will embrace a particular idea or practice. There are however, thousands
> upon thousands of woodworkers who have completed lives of full time or
> part
> time wood working without their time coming. In fact I'd say by far, most
> woodworkers have not met their time. It's kind of a fatalist view to
> imagine that your time is coming. That would certainly give one cause for
> concern on a regular basis.

Mike, you certainly a level headed view of the situation but visit an ER or
an occupational emergency clinic and talk to one of the doctors on hand.
Because this is not really sensational, you will seldom hear of the
accidents on the news. After my accident it seems everyone that I talked to
that are in the trades have a story to tell about an accident and more often
than not the accident included a tool with a circular blade. Typically the
hand injuries were with the TS. It was not until I understood the actual
number of injuries involving a TS that I began to believe that it was more a
matter of time over skill. 15 years ago the local ER that I ended up at
gave me some figures to ponder. The ER plastic surgeon that worked on me
indicated that the TS accidents are quite common and he himself probably saw
an injury daily. He estimated at least 1,000 yearly in that location alone.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> At that price it should be!

And what is the price? I haven't seen one listed anywhere yet.

"TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> True, but if you shut the saw down, then you really need to continue to
> pay
> attention until it stops because if you shut it off, you are obviously
> done
> with your cut.


True. But, hind site is 20/20 and there are countless ways of having a an
accident and you simply cannot anticipate every scenario that is possible.

"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:28:15 -0500, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> Remember the whole dot-bomb thing a few years ago? Venture cap isn't
> >> always all that careful.
> >
> > Well, they used to be before Al Gore got the world all excited with that
new
> > invention of his. I suspect they are once again after that dot-bomb
scam.
>
> To be fair, Gore only said "I took the initiative in creating the
Internet",
> not that he said he "invented" it. I'm told by apologists that this
> differs somehow.
>

Oh. I stand corrected. I guess.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> An injury a day would nothing short of surprise me. Shock me even.
> Perhaps
> astound me. Ok, so I'm easily moved. Nonetheless, you must live in a
> pretty large metro area I would guess, in order to see that type of injury
> level. Maybe not - just struck me as a high number.


Mike, I live in Houston.

"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:55:19 -0500, Paul Kierstead <[email protected]>
> wrote:

>
> Seriously, Paul, my problem with them is that it seems to be all show and
> no deliver, _and_, while it's still not a real product, they are trying to
> have the government force it on everyone.

I am having a hard time understanding how you can say any of this. The
product is being delivered. You simply have to wait in line. The 50
anniversary Corvette had a waiting list and the vehicle has been in
production for 50 years.


It'd be different if it was
> a real product with a proven track record..

You know, nothing has a proben track record before it has been used by the
public. If you simply give it time, it will be there.



> Ah, but all of those (a) exist, and (b) work.

So have you not seen the site with the saw in the new owners garage? Or the
article on the one that FWW wrote about.
The saw has to exist for these things to happen.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
>
>
> >>
> >> Never have had a bad accident have you?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > yup - but I don't tremble in fear of it happening again. Life goes on.
Get
> > over it and get off the soap box - you do more harm than good with your
> > 'tude.
>
> I am on no soap box. Any you "tude" is one of ignorance.
>
>

Considering in a prior post you mentioned having a second accident - yes I'm
ignorant of the fact that someone could be dumb enough to make the same
mistake twice. You'd BETTER get the SawStop - sounds like YOU need it,
lefty. Better still - wanna sell your table saw?

You missed the point completely, as you have with several of your posts.
Let's just let it go and say that you really,really like the SawStop and I
find it a non essential add-on. Plus I do NOT like the attitude of the
company or it's representatives.

Sheesh!

He said he checked operation but he didn't stick his hand in the blade. What
kind of half assed review is that?
"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sawstop has delivered.
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
> --
> Ted Harris
> http://www.tedharris.com
>
>

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> TBone wrote:

>
> The questions are (a) does it trip and cost you 50 bucks and a new blade
> if
> you touch the blade while the blade is not turning and (b) does it fail to
> trip and let you get cut if the power is turned off but the blade has not
> stopped spinning.

From the response directly from SawStop,
A. Speculation here, (a) it will not trip when the blade is not turning.
It would be tough to change blades with out tripping it. (b) if it did trip
it is likely that neither the blade or cartridge would be damaged. IMHO
damage would be the result of stopping a blade spinning at 3600 rpm in 1/8
th of a revolution.

B. No Speculation, the device will trip or trigger if the blade is spinning
even after the saw was turned off.

"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Considering in a prior post you mentioned having a second accident

No, I did not say I had a second accident. I stated that I made the same
mistake again. No harm done.


- yes I'm ignorant of the fact that someone could be dumb enough to make the
same
> mistake twice. You'd BETTER get the SawStop - sounds like YOU need it,
> lefty. Better still - wanna sell your table saw?

You bet I will sell it. It is yours for $2800. U.S It is a 4 year old Jet
cabinet saw, I'll throw in the WWII blade, mobile base and 15 roller outfeed
table.

> You missed the point completely, as you have with several of your posts.

What point exactly? I am simply not judging a book by its cover or playing
pile on the under dog.

> Let's just let it go and say that you really,really like the SawStop.

That would be your assumption. I really have no reason to like the SawStop
nor any reason not to like it as I have no hands on experience with it and
neither do you I suspect. But I will not damn the product because of the
way it is brought to market. The company is absolutely working within its
rights.

and I
> find it a non essential add-on.
Plus I do NOT like the attitude of the
> company or it's representatives.

No kidding....
>
> Sheesh!
>
>

"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sawstop has delivered.
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
> --
> Ted Harris
> http://www.tedharris.com

For the non believers, this probably will not bee enough proof. LOL

It is a great looking saw.

"TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Old Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
> > >
> > > Questions.
> > >
> > > What happens when you have turned off the power to the saw motor?
> >
> > Since I had an injury about 15 years ago with the saw turned off I
> e-mailed
> > SawStop and adked that that question.
> > It still continuues to work with no power. IMHO, a simple capicator
could
> > store enough energy to power the device.
>
> What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already
not
> moving, how can it help you? If it drops the blade into the table, the
> dropping blade can still cut you on the way down and now you get the added
> insult of spending $50 to replace the charge for no real help at all.
>
> >
> >
> > > What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?
> >
> > This could also be easily handled by a motion detector or something like
> the
> > centripical device that engauges or disingauges the start capacitors in
> > induction motors.
>
> Again, what would be the point? Now you would be creating a substantial
> increase in the cost of the machine with no real benefit at all. No
safety
> device in the world can protect someone from their own laziness or
stupidity
> and it really is up to the woodworker to understand what they are working
> with and to pay attention and be careful, even when the machine is not
> running.
>
>
> --
> If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
>
>

IMHO, they are selling fear. All the touts who espose the product begin with
' if you had an accident with your saw you sure would wish you had sawstop".
That's what irks me, that and their blatant attempt to use the court to make
a profit. If they're so altruistic then they should give it away.
Considering the number of saws in use and the number of accidents I wonder
what the probability is of having one.

For those people who feel the need for the product and are willing to deal
with it's shortcomings, I say go for it. It's your money and your wiener.
For me, it's not worth the effort. FWIW, I also didn't build a bomb shelter
many years ago when that was the current safety craze.

y' pays yer money and y takes yer choice.

"Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>


>>
>> Never have had a bad accident have you?
>>
>>
>
>
> yup - but I don't tremble in fear of it happening again. Life goes on. Get
> over it and get off the soap box - you do more harm than good with your
> 'tude.

I am on no soap box. Any you "tude" is one of ignorance.

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" wrote in message


Swingman, are you getting snow this morning? Twice my house has be under
heavy snow. The snow storm is inconsistent in intensity but I am of firm
belief that the situation will get worse and I strongly suggest that you
monitor the situation. Chocolate Lab ran out into the yard and came
whimpering back to the shelter I was under. She was covered with 2 flakes
of snow and a closer inspection revealed 3 specs of sleet. Internet radar
is showing NOTHING!!!!!...... This concerns me greatly as I know what kind
of whollup we are in for. Radar sure would make this less scary......

..........


..
.



;~)

ROTFLMAO...........

Leon wrote:
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>yup - but I don't tremble in fear of it happening again. Life goes on. Get
>>over it and get off the soap box - you do more harm than good with your
>>'tude.
>
>
> I am on no soap box. Any you "tude" is one of ignorance.

You are not, indeed; you seem pretty reasonable to me. I am entirely
baffled how people can get their panties in such a knot over the
invention of a tablesaw safety device or -- for that matter -- the fact
the company has been slow getting it to market. You would think it was a
massive insult to them or something. What is the deal here? Sheesh, they
must be homicidal about seatbelts. I can't imagine how much they froth
at the mouth about anti-lock brakes, hearing protection or -- god help
us -- eye protection.

PK

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:12:40 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:hoCyd.10287
>>>
>>> Since I had an injury about 15 years ago with the saw turned off I
>> e-mailed
>>> SawStop and adked that that question.
>>> It still continuues to work with no power. IMHO, a simple capicator
>>> could
>>> store enough energy to power the device.
>>
>> What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already
>> not
>> moving, how can it help you?
>
>
>The blade may still be moving with the power off. Keep your eye on the
>blade next time you hit the switch. From what I've read, lots of people get
>injured by saw blades running unpowered.
>
As I understand it from the material I posted here, if the blade is
moving the device is active. Once the blade stops, the device is off.

--RC



"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

PMFJI

Questions.

What happens when you have turned off the power to the saw motor?

What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?

>Sawstop has delivered.
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:15:14 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:

><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> At that price it should be!
>
>And what is the price? I haven't seen one listed anywhere yet.
>
Roughly $2500, IIRC from the web site.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

"TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:hoCyd.10287
>>
>> Since I had an injury about 15 years ago with the saw turned off I
> e-mailed
>> SawStop and adked that that question.
>> It still continuues to work with no power. IMHO, a simple capicator
>> could
>> store enough energy to power the device.
>
> What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already
> not
> moving, how can it help you?


The blade may still be moving with the power off. Keep your eye on the
blade next time you hit the switch. From what I've read, lots of people get
injured by saw blades running unpowered.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Sawstop has delivered.
> > http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
> > --
> > Ted Harris
> > http://www.tedharris.com
>
> For the non believers, this probably will not bee enough proof. LOL
>

I'm just glad they started making it so we don't need to speculate.
I hope they sell enough so that they abandon their legistlative attempts at
gaining a monopoly.

-j

TBone wrote:

>
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Old Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
>> >
>> > Questions.
>> >
>> > What happens when you have turned off the power to the saw motor?
>>
>> Since I had an injury about 15 years ago with the saw turned off I
> e-mailed
>> SawStop and adked that that question.
>> It still continuues to work with no power. IMHO, a simple capicator
>> could store enough energy to power the device.
>
> What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already
> not
> moving, how can it help you? If it drops the blade into the table, the
> dropping blade can still cut you on the way down and now you get the added
> insult of spending $50 to replace the charge for no real help at all.

The questions are (a) does it trip and cost you 50 bucks and a new blade if
you touch the blade while the blade is not turning and (b) does it fail to
trip and let you get cut if the power is turned off but the blade has not
stopped spinning.

>> > What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?
>>
>> This could also be easily handled by a motion detector or something like
> the
>> centripical device that engauges or disingauges the start capacitors in
>> induction motors.
>
> Again, what would be the point? Now you would be creating a substantial
> increase in the cost of the machine with no real benefit at all. No
> safety device in the world can protect someone from their own laziness or
> stupidity and it really is up to the woodworker to understand what they
> are working with and to pay attention and be careful, even when the
> machine is not running.

While it is inconcievable to me that anyone would try to market such a thing
without making provisions for the two conditions mentioned above, I have
see manufactureres do enough really stupid things to agree that these are
legitimate questions.

I distinctly recall a post in which someone did describe what happens in
those situations based on his personal experience either with a delivered
saw or a prototype, but now I can't find the post. Something about there
being a green light that is on whenever it is armed, which included a
certain period of time after power-off, and when the light goes out then
you can touch the blade without triggering. Trouble is I may very well
have dreamed it.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Leon wrote:

>
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>
>> I agreed with most of what you said in the reply that I snipped this from
>> Leon, except this part. I believe that most people who don't jump on
>> every
>> single new thing or practice just because it pretends to be in the name
>> of safety is less because they place all of their confidence in any of
>> the points you mentioned, than it is because they feel that these things
>> outweigh the marginal gain that a particular device or practice might
>> afford. As to given enough time, everyone's time will come? Well,
>> that's
>> kind of hard to embrace. It may come, that's for sure. I realize that
>> everytime I use one of my tools. I think about it when I grab a 4 in
>> grinder, use a table saw, a welder, or any number of other things. I
>> don't
>> let it petrify me or drive me to embrace every idea that comes along. I
>> guess the threat has to seem real enough to me in order to warrant that I
>> will embrace a particular idea or practice. There are however, thousands
>> upon thousands of woodworkers who have completed lives of full time or
>> part
>> time wood working without their time coming. In fact I'd say by far,
>> most
>> woodworkers have not met their time. It's kind of a fatalist view to
>> imagine that your time is coming. That would certainly give one cause
>> for concern on a regular basis.
>
> Mike, you certainly a level headed view of the situation but visit an ER
> or an occupational emergency clinic and talk to one of the doctors on
> hand. Because this is not really sensational, you will seldom hear of the
> accidents on the news. After my accident it seems everyone that I talked
> to that are in the trades have a story to tell about an accident and more
> often
> than not the accident included a tool with a circular blade. Typically
> the
> hand injuries were with the TS. It was not until I understood the actual
> number of injuries involving a TS that I began to believe that it was more
> a
> matter of time over skill. 15 years ago the local ER that I ended up at
> gave me some figures to ponder. The ER plastic surgeon that worked on me
> indicated that the TS accidents are quite common and he himself probably
> saw
> an injury daily. He estimated at least 1,000 yearly in that location
> alone.

"Saw an injury daily" and "saw a serious, disabling injury daily" are not
the same. According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission there are
about 30,000 table-saw injuries per year that result in an emergency-room
visit. That includes "walked into corner of table and busted balls",
"slipped and banged head on table", "was wearing safety glasses,
nonetheless managed to get splinter in eye", etc. If he's claiming 1000
amputations a year in his location he needs to call the CPSC right away
because according to them he's seeing a third of all of them that occur in
the US.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Doug Miller wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, "ted harris"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>You must be a bit slow or something. Do you think only one unit shipped?
>
> Do you have any evidence that they've shipped *more* than one?
>
> Given the company's track record so far, it's not too much of a stretch of
> the imagination to suppose that the one unit we've seen evidence of so far
> is a prototype, shipped in order to appear to be in actual production so
> as to keep their venture capitalists from turning off the flow of money
> just yet.

I would hope that the venture capitalists were scrutinizing a bit more
diligently than _that_.

> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
> by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
> You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Dave Hinz wrote:

> Seriously, Paul, my problem with them is that it seems to be all show and
> no deliver, _and_, while it's still not a real product, they are trying to
> have the government force it on everyone. It'd be different if it was
> a real product with a proven track record.

Ok, point taken. I guess I might just me more cynical then most; I
consider what they have tried to do w.r.t. legislation to be "par for
the course" for companies and what I might even try to do if I was very
strongly profit motivated. Or perhaps even believed in my product to an
extreme. However, companies try stupid shit all the time; you can't ask
a tiger to change his stripes. If, however, your legistlators are
willing to make a patented, single-sourced solution a requirement
without price controls, it might be time to vote for someone else.
Actually, if the invention was considered vital to public safety, the
patent could be removed...

In article <[email protected]>,
"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sawstop has delivered.
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940

Would one use 320 or 400 grit to scuff up that black powder coat (in
order to paint the saw DeWalt yellow)?

Black?? Not a safe colour.... unless the thing jumps out of the way when
you bump into it...

please stop me..


r

The paint scheme reminds of all those pretty lures in the bait shop...
they don't attract fish, but sure attract buyers...*G*

I can imagine a customer wandering into the shop for a price on some
cabinetry...one look at that saw and I wonder what that potential
customer will think.......

Having said all that....that is one fine looking piece of toy.....

I'm envious.

I want one so I can park it next to my Porsche....wait...I don't have a
Porsche...shit...

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:37:03 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The saw always has power, just not always going to the motor. The sensor
>could be energised from the live side of the on off switch.

Amazing that you could do this, eh ? :-)

It's ironic that someone who makes a mental mistake
like this insists that others shouldn't make any. A bit
like that junkie talk show guy ...

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> For those that feel that harm
> will never come to them because they always pay close attention, use
proper
> tool technique, are way too smart to let an accident happen, or are way
too
> careful to let an accident happen, I can only say that given enough time
> your time will come.
>

I agreed with most of what you said in the reply that I snipped this from
Leon, except this part. I believe that most people who don't jump on every
single new thing or practice just because it pretends to be in the name of
safety is less because they place all of their confidence in any of the
points you mentioned, than it is because they feel that these things
outweigh the marginal gain that a particular device or practice might
afford. As to given enough time, everyone's time will come? Well, that's
kind of hard to embrace. It may come, that's for sure. I realize that
everytime I use one of my tools. I think about it when I grab a 4 in
grinder, use a table saw, a welder, or any number of other things. I don't
let it petrify me or drive me to embrace every idea that comes along. I
guess the threat has to seem real enough to me in order to warrant that I
will embrace a particular idea or practice. There are however, thousands
upon thousands of woodworkers who have completed lives of full time or part
time wood working without their time coming. In fact I'd say by far, most
woodworkers have not met their time. It's kind of a fatalist view to
imagine that your time is coming. That would certainly give one cause for
concern on a regular basis.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:30:05 GMT, "TBone" <[email protected]>
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I am not sure about some of what you say. But to answer your
questions.

I want it to continue to protect me if ther power is off, either
because I turned it off, or the supply goes down at 20:00 and I am
standing in the dark with a blade spinning down, my fingers close
enough to be worrisome.

The _point_ of asking what happens when the saw is stopped si that the
thing need not operate then. If it does it would be a little
inconvenient.

>What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already not
>moving, how can it help you?

No. I said the power was off. See question 2.

>If it drops the blade into the table, the
>dropping blade can still cut you on the way down and now you get the added
>insult of spending $50 to replace the charge for no real help at all.

You lost me.


>
>>
>>
>> > What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?

>Again, what would be the point? Now you would be creating a substantial
>increase in the cost of the machine with no real benefit at all.

Exactly. I was asking what happens. This thing appears somewhat
violent, and not neede if the saw is stopped.

>No safety
>device in the world can protect someone from their own laziness or stupidity
>and it really is up to the woodworker to understand what they are working
>with and to pay attention and be careful, even when the machine is not
>running.

You lost me again. I hope you understand my questions better.

"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In news:Vic Baron <[email protected]> typed:
> > Let's just let it go and say that you really,really like the SawStop and
I
> > find it a non essential add-on. Plus I do NOT like the attitude of the
> > company or it's representatives.
>
> Bye-bye now.
> --
> Ted Harris
> http://www.tedharris.com
>
>

go kiss my sawstop bozo :)

> Would one use 320 or 400 grit to scuff up that black powder coat (in
> order to paint the saw DeWalt yellow)?
> Black?? Not a safe colour.... unless the thing jumps out of the way when
> you bump into it...
> please stop me..
> r
> The paint scheme reminds of all those pretty lures in the bait shop...
> they don't attract fish, but sure attract buyers...*G*
> I can imagine a customer wandering into the shop for a price on some
> cabinetry...one look at that saw and I wonder what that potential
> customer will think.......
> Having said all that....that is one fine looking piece of toy.....
> I'm envious.
> I want one so I can park it next to my Porsche....wait...I don't have a
> Porsche...shit...


Too good of you indeed. I dislike the black as well, much prefer the griz green or the
delta grey more visibility in possible darker light. I saw the movies on their site, really
quite impressive, and the strongest point of the machine.

Alex

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Sawstop has delivered.
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940

At last! Now we can start getting some better information on this
thing.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Old Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
> >
> > Questions.
> >
> > What happens when you have turned off the power to the saw motor?
>
> Since I had an injury about 15 years ago with the saw turned off I
e-mailed
> SawStop and adked that that question.
> It still continuues to work with no power. IMHO, a simple capicator could
> store enough energy to power the device.

What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already not
moving, how can it help you? If it drops the blade into the table, the
dropping blade can still cut you on the way down and now you get the added
insult of spending $50 to replace the charge for no real help at all.

>
>
> > What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?
>
> This could also be easily handled by a motion detector or something like
the
> centripical device that engauges or disingauges the start capacitors in
> induction motors.

Again, what would be the point? Now you would be creating a substantial
increase in the cost of the machine with no real benefit at all. No safety
device in the world can protect someone from their own laziness or stupidity
and it really is up to the woodworker to understand what they are working
with and to pay attention and be careful, even when the machine is not
running.


--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>>>Sawstop has delivered.
>>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>>
>> At last! Now we can start getting some better information on this
>> thing.
>
> ...from someone other than Sawstop and their shills...

Your spite for Sawstop and its reps/owners IMHO is pretty obvious. Do you
have some kind of mental war going on with SawStop?

In article <[email protected]>, "ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Maybe you should be working on YOUR reading comprehension. The point is you
>did not pre-order, and now it is getting delivered. You must be pissed
>off because you didn't.

I haven't seen any proof, so far, that they've shipped more than one unit to
an actual customer. Nor have I seen any proof that that unit was an actual
production unit, and not a prototype.

This is not the same as "now it is getting delivered."

Wake me up when they've actually shipped fifty production units to actual
customers.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Your paying attention to what you were doing at the time probably would
> have
> as well and I bet you never made that same mistake again. I don't know
> what
> happened to you but if you were already in a position to stop the saw, it
> seems likely that you could have avoided it.

Actually I make the same miustke again about 9 months later and realized
that this is how I must have been injured. Fortunately or not, I did not
have as much thumb hanging down as it is half gone now and did not repeat
the trip to the ER. Believe me when you are injured like this you may or
may not remember what happened exactly. For days I thought it was kick back
only to realize no wood was damaged. This makes it hard to prevent a freak
accident.
>
> That is far more difficult than you give it credit for.

Not really.

Where exactly do you intend to mount this detector and what is going to
power it after you
> shut the power to the was off.

The dectctor can be mounted to the trunion and monitor the arbor pully or
shaft. The crank shaft saensor on many car engines is simply a closely
mounted sensor, "about the size of a small cigarette lighter", counting the
times a magnetic spot on the harmonic balancer passed by it in a given
amount of time.
The saw always has power, just not always going to the motor. The sensor
could be energised from the live side of the on off switch.

From what I understand the SawStop has these capabilities and I was simply
explaining one of the possible way that this can be accomplished. I am not
saying that this is in fact how it was accomplished but simply how it could
be done.

> Where exactly do you intend to mount either the magnet or the sensor? And
> even then, they will still do nothing without the monitering and logic
> circuits the use them.

Again, the magnet could be a 1/4" long pencil lead sized object imbedded in
a small drilled hole on the end of the arbor. The sensor coud be mounted
close to the end of the arbor. As far as the logic and circuits, that stuff
is cheap and mass produced. Many battery operated drills have this
circuitery to maintain speed when a load is applied to the drill.

"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Remember the whole dot-bomb thing a few years ago? Venture cap isn't
> always all that careful.

Well, they used to be before Al Gore got the world all excited with that new
invention of his. I suspect they are once again after that dot-bomb scam.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:09:07 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Sawstop has delivered.
>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>> --
>> Ted Harris
>> http://www.tedharris.com
>
>For the non believers, this probably will not bee enough proof. LOL

The proof will come as the result of testing and experience in the
field. I'd also be interested in seeing a detailed examination of the
production version.

>It is a great looking saw.

At that price it should be!

--RC


"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

>>
>> At last! Now we can start getting some better information on this
>> thing.
>
> ...from someone other than Sawstop and their shills...

I agree, It sure does look like a hard working tool! I like it, now I want
to know the cold hard facts on reliablity and ease of trueing.

Searcher1

"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sawstop has delivered.
> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
> --
> Ted Harris
> http://www.tedharris.com

Beef about SawStop all you want (and I have), but that is a nice looking
saw, IMO.

todd

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:57:21 -0800, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:35:24 GMT, [email protected] calmly
>ranted:
>
>>On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Sawstop has delivered.
>>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>>
>>At last! Now we can start getting some better information on this
>>thing.
>
>Let the class action lawsuits begin!

I'll be more interested in the magazine tests.
I just hope some moron doesn't try to repeat the demonstration where
the inventor deliberately ran his finger into the blade.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:32:43 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>I'll be more interested in the magazine tests.

Not me. I want to hear from real world users, on two-way forums like
this.

Barry

"Paul Kierstead" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> I am on no soap box. Any you "tude" is one of ignorance.
>
> You are not, indeed; you seem pretty reasonable to me. I am entirely
> baffled how people can get their panties in such a knot over the invention
> of a tablesaw safety device or -- for that matter -- the fact the company
> has been slow getting it to market. You would think it was a massive
> insult to them or something. What is the deal here? Sheesh, they must be
> homicidal about seatbelts. I can't imagine how much they froth at the
> mouth about anti-lock brakes, hearing protection or -- god help us -- eye
> protection.
>
> PK

I am not so sure that many are so much against the idea of the safety devise
so much as their impressions of the company when the company looked to the
government to mandate the use of this or a similar device to be used on all
new table saws. I am also against the government getting involved with our
lives any more than necessary. However not all that the government does is
bad for us. IMHO this safety device is a good idea and I would much rather
see this device than the one that comes on the saw now and gets thrown away
before assembly most of the time. Many people form an opinion and neither
hell or high water will change their minds. ;~)
For those people that have been seriously injured and still have ill
feelings for this device I can respect their feelings. They have been there
and know that it is possible, even for them. For those that feel that harm
will never come to them because they always pay close attention, use proper
tool technique, are way too smart to let an accident happen, or are way too
careful to let an accident happen, I can only say that given enough time
your time will come. I was one of those people that felt that way and all
my friends and relatives could not believe that of all people it happened to
me. I have been down that path and know better now.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> At that price it should be!


Really only 5 or 6 hundred dollars more than a PM66. A very small price to
pay to save a trip to the emergency room even if it fails 90% of the time
you are money ahead and more likely to save a trip than any other saw.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:F%[email protected]...
>
> "TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already
> > not
> > moving, how can it help you? If it drops the blade into the table, the
> > dropping blade can still cut you on the way down and now you get the
added
> > insult of spending $50 to replace the charge for no real help at all.
>
> HUH? The saw does not have to be turnrd on for the blade to be spinning.
I
> was injured after turning the saw off and before the blade coasted down to
a
> stop. In this instance the SawStop would have prevented my injury.

Your paying attention to what you were doing at the time probably would have
as well and I bet you never made that same mistake again. I don't know what
happened to you but if you were already in a position to stop the saw, it
seems likely that you could have avoided it.

>
> >> > What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?
> >>
> >> This could also be easily handled by a motion detector or something
like
> > the
> >> centripical device that engauges or disingauges the start capacitors in
> >> induction motors.
> >
> > Again, what would be the point?
>
> The point of what? Having a motion detector? If that is what you are
> talking about, the motion detector to detect the spinning blade would
enable
> the system. If no "predetermined" minimum speed is detected by the motion
> detector the system would be disabled. This would prevent the system from
> tripping when changing blades or turning the blade by hand.

That is far more difficult than you give it credit for. Where exactly do
you intend to mount this detector and what is going to power it after you
shut the power to the was off. At best, I would put a 5 to 10 second delay
in it's shutdown to give the blade time to stop which would serve your
purpose and cost much less.


>
> Now you would be creating a substantial
> > increase in the cost of the machine with no real benefit at all.
>
> I suspect this is already built in for the purpose stated above and a
motion
> decector or speed sensor would be inexpensive. Almost every automobile
has
> a speed sensor at the crankshaft to determine timing. Same thing could be
> used here. A magnet and a sensor.

Where exactly do you intend to mount either the magnet or the sensor? And
even then, they will still do nothing without the monitering and logic
circuits the use them.

>
> No safety
> > device in the world can protect someone from their own laziness or
> > stupidity
> > and it really is up to the woodworker to understand what they are
working
> > with and to pay attention and be careful, even when the machine is not
> > running.
>
> Exactly but the more safety you have built in, the less likely you or I or
> any one else will be injured.

I disagree with this. I have come to find that when something has too much
safety equipment on it, the users lose respect for it and simply begin to
use it more dangerously. I did notice that in a past thread someone sade
the claim that statistics show less injuries on a RAS than on table saws and
I would bet that that spinning blade above the table makes the user VERY
aware of what they are working with.

> And don't even think that you are 100% not
> lazy or stupid when operating any equipment 100% of the time. You are
> probably human like every one else and are not capable of not making a
> mistake.

I never made that claim and have been injured, sometimes do to being stupid
but I seldom make the same mistake twice.

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:45:55 -0600, "Todd Fatheree" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Sawstop has delivered.
>> http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14940
>> --
>> Ted Harris
>> http://www.tedharris.com
>
>Beef about SawStop all you want (and I have), but that is a nice looking
>saw, IMO.
>
>todd

Oh it *looks* good, but so do Craftsman products. Me, I want to see
the innards and some close ups of the details such as fence, handles,
adjusters etc.

Greg

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> At that price it should be!
>
> And what is the price? I haven't seen one listed anywhere yet.


$2499 + the fence that you want to add.

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:40:14 -0500, Paul Kierstead
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Actually, if the invention was considered vital to public safety, the
>patent could be removed...

Now *that* would probably really get the SS guys panties in a bunch.
Talk about winning the battle and losing the war...

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

I called them today. They got 98 in and another 98 are due in January, and
then another 98 after that and.... - that's what the rep told me.

Why 98??? - they fit 49 to a shipping container

I imagine it will be a couple of months before they catch up with the
pre-ordered units.

I asked about a 12" saw - "if there is enough demand then we will do it."

He said lots of people are calling, wanting to see one before they order it.

Mike

"Old Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:38 -0800, "ted harris"
>
> Questions.
>
> What happens when you have turned off the power to the saw motor?

Since I had an injury about 15 years ago with the saw turned off I e-mailed
SawStop and adked that that question.
It still continuues to work with no power. IMHO, a simple capicator could
store enough energy to power the device.


> What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?

This could also be easily handled by a motion detector or something like the
centripical device that engauges or disingauges the start capacitors in
induction motors.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Vic Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > IMHO, they are selling fear. All the touts who espose the product begin
> > with
> > ' if you had an accident with your saw you sure would wish you had
> > sawstop".
> > That's what irks me, that and their blatant attempt to use the court to
> > make
> > a profit. If they're so altruistic then they should give it away.
> > Considering the number of saws in use and the number of accidents I
wonder
> > what the probability is of having one.
> >
> > For those people who feel the need for the product and are willing to
deal
> > with it's shortcomings, I say go for it. It's your money and your
wiener.
> > For me, it's not worth the effort. FWIW, I also didn't build a bomb
> > shelter
> > many years ago when that was the current safety craze.
>
> Never have had a bad accident have you?
>
>


yup - but I don't tremble in fear of it happening again. Life goes on. Get
over it and get off the soap box - you do more harm than good with your
'tude.

In article <[email protected]>, "ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote:
>In news:Doug Miller <[email protected]> typed:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "ted harris"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>You must be a bit slow or something. Do you think only one unit shipped?
>>
>> Do you have any evidence that they've shipped *more* than one?
>
><snip Bullsh**>
>
>Why don't you do the research and find out for yourself?

Why don't you answer the question? *Do* you have evidence that they've shipped
more than one? Do you have independent evidence that they've shipped anything
other than a prototype?

--
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"TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> True, but if you shut the saw down, then you really need to continue to
> pay
> attention until it stops because if you shut it off, you are obviously
> done
> with your cut.

Sure, but reaching for the cutoff has taken many a bite of skin with it. Of
course no matter how much something is idiot proofed, the work will create a
bigger and better idiot.

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:51:25 +0800, Old Nick <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Questions.
>
>What happens when you have turned off the power to the saw motor?
>
>What happens if the blade is not moving, and you touch it?
>

I don't think that this is new technology: I assume that
it is the same as used on security doors with magnetic
locks that release when a conducting bar is touched by
someone (skin contact). We use them in our offices
and they work quite well. The mechanism becomes
inactive when we lose power.

In article <[email protected]>, "ted harris" <[email protected]> wrote:

>You must be a bit slow or something. Do you think only one unit shipped?

Do you have any evidence that they've shipped *more* than one?

Given the company's track record so far, it's not too much of a stretch of the
imagination to suppose that the one unit we've seen evidence of so far is a
prototype, shipped in order to appear to be in actual production so as to keep
their venture capitalists from turning off the flow of money just yet.

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Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

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> I want to see something other than "click here to pre-order" on the site.
>

...Then read their FAQ, read how the safety system works and watch the little movies there. I did.

Alex

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "TBone" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:hoCyd.10287
> >>
> >> Since I had an injury about 15 years ago with the saw turned off I
> > e-mailed
> >> SawStop and adked that that question.
> >> It still continuues to work with no power. IMHO, a simple capicator
> >> could
> >> store enough energy to power the device.
> >
> > What exactly do you want it to do for you? If the saw blade is already
> > not
> > moving, how can it help you?
>
>
> The blade may still be moving with the power off. Keep your eye on the
> blade next time you hit the switch. From what I've read, lots of people
get
> injured by saw blades running unpowered.


True, but if you shut the saw down, then you really need to continue to pay
attention until it stops because if you shut it off, you are obviously done
with your cut.

--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving