School's almost over, the days are longer and it's that time of year when
the girls spend alot of time watching me in the shop to pass the time. I
was thinking that it's about time I let them try out some of the tools and
build something. With proper supervision of course... and not just any ol'
supervision but the
"this-is-the-child-who-ran-her-bike-into-a-parked-car-the-wife-would-kill-me
-if-the-kids-lost-a-finger-I'm-not-ready-for-them-to-grow-up-these-are-MY-to
ys-I've-seen-how-you-treat-your-own" type of supervision.
So the question comes up,"what to let them build?" It needs to meet this
criteria - extremely basic construction but not so simple it fails to
inspire a sense of accomplishment. It needs to require enough steps that it
teaches patience but not so much it becomes boring. It needs to have
required techniques that forces me to teach and remained involved in the
process but still allows them to proceed on their own.
Yes I'm over thinking it. That's who I am. That's who my dad taught me to
be. Now it's my turn....
Speaking of ages, at what age do you let a child use the power tools? My 11 year old daughter (5th grade) wants me to teach her how
to do the WW thing, but I am not sure if it is safe to expose her to the power tools. I first touched power tools in woodshop in
the 7th grade.
Am I being too cautious?
--
Al Reid
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know
for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> mel wrote:
>
> > So the question comes up,"what to let them build?" It needs
> > to meet this criteria - extremely basic construction but not
> > so simple it fails to inspire a sense of accomplishment. It
> > needs to require enough steps that it teaches patience but not
> > so much it becomes boring. It needs to have required
> > techniques that forces me to teach and remained involved in
> > the process but still allows them to proceed on their own.
>
> Mel,
>
> You forgot to mention ages or interests...
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Al Reid" wrote in message
>
> > Am I being too cautious?
>
> No ... but get them started making things using THEIR OWN _hand_ tools ...
> you'll never regret it.
>
> At six I had my own tool box I made myself with my grandfather's guidance,
> full of my own tools ...and so equipped, I would have tackled the Grand
> Coulee Dam if they would have just let me at it.
I have only been back into WWing for a couple of years now after a 15 yr hiatis. My daughter had never shown any interest until I
began making small decorative boxes from walnut that I cut and dried. After making her one based on her "Idea" she suddenly became
interested. Perhaps we will take it slow and come up with a project or two that do not require the use of the power tools and see
if ther interest is still there. I think she may just think that it would be cool to use the table saw.
>
> It set the stage for me believing that anything was possible if I just put
> my mind and tools to the task ... and that's a great, lasting, gift to give
> a kid.
>
> If you do this right, you won't have to ask the question about "when" with
> regard to using power tools.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/13/04
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Birdhouses--and I still help my friend's kids make 'em. We use 1X5 cypress.
I have plans for several different birds and their needs.
I let the kids show me which birds they've seen around their homes using a
birdwatcher's poster, then they pick out the house they want to build. This
way, they can take full ownership of the project. All with their parent's
permission of course
They do the measuring, sawing, sanding, drilling, gluing, finishing down to
the end.
I just never have too many over at the same time, otherwise safety becomes
an even bigger issue.
.
"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> School's almost over, the days are longer and it's that time of year when
> the girls spend alot of time watching me in the shop to pass the time. I
> was thinking that it's about time I let them try out some of the tools and
> build something. With proper supervision of course... and not just any
ol'
> supervision but the
>
"this-is-the-child-who-ran-her-bike-into-a-parked-car-the-wife-would-kill-me
> -if-the-kids-lost-a-finger-I'm-not-ready-for-them-to-grow-up-these-are-MY-
to
> ys-I've-seen-how-you-treat-your-own" type of supervision.
>
> So the question comes up,"what to let them build?" It needs to meet this
> criteria - extremely basic construction but not so simple it fails to
> inspire a sense of accomplishment. It needs to require enough steps that
it
> teaches patience but not so much it becomes boring. It needs to have
> required techniques that forces me to teach and remained involved in the
> process but still allows them to proceed on their own.
>
> Yes I'm over thinking it. That's who I am. That's who my dad taught me
to
> be. Now it's my turn....
>
>
I like your suggestions. I think the bird house is a good first project.
--
Al Reid
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know
for sure that just ain't so." --- Mark Twain
"Bruce Barnett" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Al Reid" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Am I being too cautious?
>
> One can never be too cautious. But some power tools are safer than
> others (IMHO). Besides hand tools, I had Cub Scouts using
>
> Power Drill
> Power Screwdriver
> Orbital Sander
> Drill Press
>
> and if they did well, they would eventually go to a Scroll Saw and
> perhaps a Mini-Lathe. I watched them like a hawk. The Cub Scouts
> built a simple tool box with a dowel handle on top. This was a good
> exercise, because they had to measure the wood. (I used the table saw
> to cut the pieces). They had to learn how to account for the width of
> the wood, a mistake a few made. A bird house is another good
> project. I think I started them with a Oriole Bird Feeder. This was
> two pieces of wood in an L shape (roof and back), with a dowel in the
> center of one - for the orange half to be stuck onto. An eye screw on
> top, and voila!
>
>
> --
> Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
> $500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
This doesn't really answer your question, but seeing the subject line, I
have to brag a little.
Couple of weeks ago, I was cleaning up my shop a little with my son. I
had made pretty good progress when he brought me a piece of 1x4 scrap
and asked, "Dada, can we build a wood robot, please?" I, of course,
dropped what I was doing immediately.
Simple design: block body with cuts in the top to form shoulders and
head, square section arms and legs bolted through the body with extra
hardware I dug up. I cut the pieces out and knocked the corners off
w/the block plane. He drilled all the holes on the drill press (that I
set up with fence and stop), sanded, finished with paste wax, and bolted
it together. He had fun and was happy with the result. I savored every
minute I spent with him.
Oh, and he's 3 1/2.
mel wrote:
>
> School's almost over, the days are longer and it's that time of year when
> the girls spend alot of time watching me in the shop to pass the time. I
> was thinking that it's about time I let them try out some of the tools and
> build something. With proper supervision of course... and not just any ol'
> supervision but the
> "this-is-the-child-who-ran-her-bike-into-a-parked-car-the-wife-would-kill-me
> -if-the-kids-lost-a-finger-I'm-not-ready-for-them-to-grow-up-these-are-MY-to
> ys-I've-seen-how-you-treat-your-own" type of supervision.
>
> So the question comes up,"what to let them build?" It needs to meet this
> criteria - extremely basic construction but not so simple it fails to
> inspire a sense of accomplishment. It needs to require enough steps that it
> teaches patience but not so much it becomes boring. It needs to have
> required techniques that forces me to teach and remained involved in the
> process but still allows them to proceed on their own.
>
> Yes I'm over thinking it. That's who I am. That's who my dad taught me to
> be. Now it's my turn....
My son's first project was setting sheet rock nails in the ply
subfloor
of the "end of the garage being converted into the new galley
kitchen"
remodel. Figured a half box of nails, a small ball pean (sp?) hammer
would keep him busy for a few minutes. I got a piece of sheet rock
up,
a few nails to hold it up and found The Kid had set most of the nails
I'd given him - all over the floor.
His second project was while I was doing some wiring. He tested a
pair of diagonal cutters - on my leg! And I was wearing a brand
new pair of Levis. Skin is self sealing - Levis are not. Even then
he didn't seem to like Levis. To this day I've never been able to
get him to wear Levis. BIG, BAGGY, CROTCH DOWN AROUND HIS
ANKLES denims he'll wear - but Levis - NEVER!
He ended up working his way through school as a bicycle mechanic
and bike shop store manager - go figure.
But back to your question - projects for young kids. Others have
noted that the under 8 crowd really get into glueing scraps
together and painting/decorating them. Drill holes for feathers
from a feather duster and find a rock hound who has a lot of
little tumbled stones - the kids will be happy campers.
I did some projects with kids 5-9 last summer and put that
experience up on my site. Should give you some ideas.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/KidProjects/KidProjects1.html
You do have to watch them like a hawk. They WILL touch the end
of a hot drill bit, despite your vigilance.
charlie b
A birdhouse.
"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> School's almost over, the days are longer and it's that time of year when
> the girls spend alot of time watching me in the shop to pass the time. I
> was thinking that it's about time I let them try out some of the tools and
> build something. With proper supervision of course... and not just any
ol'
> supervision but the
>
"this-is-the-child-who-ran-her-bike-into-a-parked-car-the-wife-would-kill-me
> -if-the-kids-lost-a-finger-I'm-not-ready-for-them-to-grow-up-these-are-MY-
to
> ys-I've-seen-how-you-treat-your-own" type of supervision.
>
> So the question comes up,"what to let them build?" It needs to meet this
> criteria - extremely basic construction but not so simple it fails to
> inspire a sense of accomplishment. It needs to require enough steps that
it
> teaches patience but not so much it becomes boring. It needs to have
> required techniques that forces me to teach and remained involved in the
> process but still allows them to proceed on their own.
>
> Yes I'm over thinking it. That's who I am. That's who my dad taught me
to
> be. Now it's my turn....
>
>
well every person has their own standarsd of course. My 8 y.o. was
using a small drill press at 6. Scroll saw last year, for his Cub
Scout Pinewood car. He used the new big drill press this year for
the first time. Last week he used the CMS for the first. While I was
right there. With a clamp holding the stock. With strict orders
never to use the power tools unless I am right there. That last one
worrys me. I know how I was-
He does not use the table saw or band saw. He has used the little
stationary power sander once or twice. I let him use a ROS this year.
He whittles a lot, the knife may not leave the shop, it is mine.
Since I found his first knife in the lawn.
For what it is worth, he is quite large, the largest in his class
generally. Otherwise, some things I might keep him from because of
"reach" considerations.
He has on occasion asked to bow out on using tools. I don't push him.
He has only asked to use new (to him) tools once or twice.
I know several kids who started shooting rifles at 7. I have seen
other's 2 year olds on whitewater rivers, in rafts. We all have
different levels of risk we are willing to assume. I don't let him do
this stuff without giving it some thought.
Our cub scout den built bird houses this past Winter. I think all the
boys were eight. They all used cordless drills, both to drive screws
and with a spade bit to make the hole (I think- or did they use a
drill press for that??). They also used air nailers.
I expect by the time my boy is 11, the only things off limits in the
(supervised) shop will be the expensive, fragile stuff. I am guessing
he will be 6 foot by than, so he will have suffcient reach for the
table saw. I just hope he stays out when I am not home, for a while
yet.
-Dan
On Tue, 11 May 2004 09:12:22 -0400, "Al Reid"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Speaking of ages, at what age do you let a child use the power tools? My 11 year old daughter (5th grade) wants me to teach her how
>to do the WW thing, but I am not sure if it is safe to expose her to the power tools. I first touched power tools in woodshop in
>the 7th grade.
>
>Am I being too cautious?
Oh, oh, I know...a table!
(OK, y'all, back off, it's an inside joke....)
Seriously, it's a good question with some good answers.
Birdhouses, treasure boxes, shelves, bug/reptile cages, robots,
toolbox, child-sized workbench (sawhorses, etc.), hiking sticks, toy
boats, paint easel.
Safe processes they tend to like: sanding, gluing
Techniques to introduce gradually: measuring, cutting, design
Advanced: turning, scroll saw
Attitude: I think Nate had it down just right for the fun part. If you
want to sneak in some educational advancement, try to entice them into
thinking it's their idea to learn some new technique. Sound excited,
it usually works.
H
Oh, oh, I know...a table!
(OK, y'all, back off, it's an inside joke....)
Seriously, it's a good question with some good answers.
Birdhouses, treasure boxes, shelves, bug/reptile cages, robots,
toolbox, child-sized workbench (sawhorses, etc.), hiking sticks, toy
boats, paint easel.
Safe processes they tend to like: sanding, gluing
Techniques to introduce gradually: measuring, cutting, design
Advanced: turning, scroll saw
Attitude: I think Nate had it down just right for the fun part. If you
want to sneak in some educational advancement, try to entice them into
thinking it's their idea to learn some new technique. Sound excited,
it usually works.
H
"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
...
> So the question comes up,"what to let them build?" It needs to meet this
> criteria - extremely basic construction but not so simple it fails to
> inspire a sense of accomplishment. It needs to require enough steps that it
> teaches patience but not so much it becomes boring. It needs to have
> required techniques that forces me to teach and remained involved in the
> process but still allows them to proceed on their own.
My son's 5 now; he started helping me when he was 4. He built all
kinds of things out of the scrap pile with wood glue; he's big into
robots, Bionicles, Transformers, etc. He glued and clamped them
together and then he painted them with craft paints.
My daughter is 3, and she's doing small scraps with paint and glue,
too. In our house boys and girls both get to do wood. The only time
my kids aren't welcome in the shop is when the big power tools are
running. They can use anything that isn't a power tool and isn't too
sharp - e.g., clamps, handsaws, screwdrivers, etc are all okay.
One of the most fun projects I built with my son was a "money box."
He got to pick all the materials (scrap maple, painted bright yellow
of course) and he got to make all the choices for dividers and the
like. He even painted the logo on the top. Now he stores his most
top-secret kid stuff in it. The key is that they get to be in charge
of how it is done, and then they will love it.
Cheers,
Nate
No kidding really? Thats really cool. Turning is a great hobby.
Jim
"DJ Delorie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Al Reid" <[email protected]> writes:
> > Speaking of ages, at what age do you let a child use the power
> > tools? My 11 year old daughter (5th grade) wants me to teach her
> > how to do the WW thing, but I am not sure if it is safe to expose
> > her to the power tools.
>
> My 11yr old was demonstrating woodturning at our local symposium last
> year. She also uses the bandsaw and scroll saw, but not the table saw
> or jointer. It's all about choosing which tools and techniques are
> safe enough, and which aren't.
>
> http://www.delorie.com/photos/20030510-gswt/IMG_0780.JPG
First project??? hmm several were started and never finished. The first
thing she actually FINISHED, all by herself, no help from dad, would
have to be a simple dovetailed box for mom at about age 5'ish
The first _tool_ my daughter made... a wooden spoke shave, of course in
fact she used it to ease the edges on the dovetailed box.
She got a L-N #1 for her fourth birthday....... gosh, can that really
be 5 years ago already, where does the time go!?!?!?!
--
John G. in Memphis, TN Have a nice......... night.
http://www.shavings.net/images/Memphis/reflect_john.jpg
"Al Reid" wrote in message
> I have only been back into WWing for a couple of years now after a 15 yr
hiatis. My daughter had never shown any interest until I
> began making small decorative boxes from walnut that I cut and dried.
After making her one based on her "Idea" she suddenly became
> interested. Perhaps we will take it slow and come up with a project or
two that do not require the use of the power tools and see
> if ther interest is still there. I think she may just think that it would
be cool to use the table saw.
Sounds like you know all about it, Dad. :)
First project on my website "Projects Journal" is one my youngest daughter,
then 16, and I did together. She did the design totally by herself and I
guided those precious hands over all of the tasks ... it is the only
"priceless" piece in a house full of hand made furniture and cabinets ...
even more special now that she is graduating from High School in a couple of
weeks and will be off to college in the fall, the last one out of the nest.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04
Al Reid wrote:
> Speaking of ages, at what age do you let a child use the power
> tools? My 11 year old daughter (5th grade) wants me to teach
> her how to do the WW thing, but I am not sure if it is safe to
> expose her to the power tools. I first touched power tools in
> woodshop in the 7th grade.
Probably (that's how we are with people we love). My parents
never allowed me to own or use power tools. Thanks heavens for an
architect/stonemason/blacksmith grandfather and an uncle who
owned a tool and die shop and was willing to allow a small kid to
watch and question everybody (except customers :-) The only
things he put off limits were the zinc die casting machine and
the punch presses - but I wasn't ever allowed to try anything
/alone/. At five I had to climb up on a tall stool to see
properly - and always I paid for my shop time with broom-pushing
time.
Eleven isn't too young to use a hand drill or saber saw. Depends
on the young person, of course (remember that there are adults
who aren't safe with /non-power/ tools). Work up from there as
you both build confidence. BTW, I think my uncle's rule about
requiring adult supervision is still a good one.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
mel wrote:
> build something. With proper supervision of course... and not just any ol'
> supervision but the
> "this-is-the-child-who-ran-her-bike-into-a-parked-car-the-wife-would-kill-me
> -if-the-kids-lost-a-finger-I'm-not-ready-for-them-to-grow-up-these-are-MY-to
> ys-I've-seen-how-you-treat-your-own" type of supervision.
Apropos of nothing, when I was in 4th grade (which would have made me 10
or so), my dad let me work on a wooden boat down in the shop. The hull
was going to be cut from a 2' long 2x4, and then I'd hollow it out with
woodcarving tools to make something akin to a dugout canoe. I had used
his bandsaw before (yes, this -is- going to end with blood and a trip to
the emergency room), so he let me cut the hull myself. In my zeal to
make the boat as -wide- as possible, I cut the canoe-shaped arc
juuuuuust as close to the edge of the 2x4 as I possibly could -- until
the blade popped out of the edge of the wood and sent the side of my
left wrist into the bandsaw blade. (Because of the pressure I was
putting on the board to push the 2x4 through the bandsaw blade, there
was no chance to pull my arm back.)
My dad was standing 3' from me, supervising, but had been distracted for
just a moment by my mom yelling down the stairs that it was time for
supper. His head snapped around when he heard my shrieks and saw my
wrist halfway through the bandsaw. Every drop of blood drained from his
face, but he calmly flipped off the power, extracted my arm, wrapped a
dishtowel around it, picked me up and told my mom that we were going to
be late for supper (without telling her why, exactly, though from the
sound of the power tools, the shriek, and the cutting of power, she was
able to draw her own conclusions).
Luckily no tendons or arteries were hit -- since the blade was cutting
into the outside of my wrist, I was basically resawing bone, and the
groove eventually filled in (presumably). I still have a nice ragged
scar there, 25 years later.
Sorry to spoil your breakfast (or lunch or dinner), but I just thought
I'd chime in with my own kid story to demonstrate what -can- go wrong,
even with close adult supervision. (For what its worth, it was a lesson
that I haven't forgotten, and my parents still allowed me to use power
tools, bless their hearts. Nor have I had a serious woodworking accident
since, though to be fair I haven't done any woodworking for the last 15
years. I'm in the process of building a shop now and acquiring my own
tools. My mom, wife and sister are nervous about this for some reason.
It probably has to do with a long litany of car accidents, skiing
accidents and general freak mishaps. I try not to think about it too
much :-)
Darin
"Al Reid" <[email protected]> writes:
> Am I being too cautious?
One can never be too cautious. But some power tools are safer than
others (IMHO). Besides hand tools, I had Cub Scouts using
Power Drill
Power Screwdriver
Orbital Sander
Drill Press
and if they did well, they would eventually go to a Scroll Saw and
perhaps a Mini-Lathe. I watched them like a hawk. The Cub Scouts
built a simple tool box with a dowel handle on top. This was a good
exercise, because they had to measure the wood. (I used the table saw
to cut the pieces). They had to learn how to account for the width of
the wood, a mistake a few made. A bird house is another good
project. I think I started them with a Oriole Bird Feeder. This was
two pieces of wood in an L shape (roof and back), with a dowel in the
center of one - for the orange half to be stuck onto. An eye screw on
top, and voila!
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
"Al Reid" wrote in message
> Am I being too cautious?
No ... but get them started making things using THEIR OWN _hand_ tools ...
you'll never regret it.
At six I had my own tool box I made myself with my grandfather's guidance,
full of my own tools ...and so equipped, I would have tackled the Grand
Coulee Dam if they would have just let me at it.
It set the stage for me believing that anything was possible if I just put
my mind and tools to the task ... and that's a great, lasting, gift to give
a kid.
If you do this right, you won't have to ask the question about "when" with
regard to using power tools.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/13/04
mel wrote:
> So the question comes up,"what to let them build?" It needs
> to meet this criteria - extremely basic construction but not
> so simple it fails to inspire a sense of accomplishment. It
> needs to require enough steps that it teaches patience but not
> so much it becomes boring. It needs to have required
> techniques that forces me to teach and remained involved in
> the process but still allows them to proceed on their own.
Mel,
You forgot to mention ages or interests...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
short answer- first projects were piles of what ever he would pull
out of the scrap box, all jumbled and glued into something only he
could explain.
A simple wall shelf came out last year (at 7). This year, a simple
shaker bench, I ran some dadoes, and cut the curve in the center
spine. No m/t joints. A few screws, heads covered with wood plugs.
He did some sawing, and a lot of sanding. He stained it (some ungodly
purple stuff he found in my cabinet), it is awaiting varnish.
Birdhouses. Bat houses are great- Though it will be Fall before they
get used by the bats, they tell me.
Rubber band guns. Sling shots. Oh wait- you said girls...
-Dan V.
"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
snip!
> So the question comes up,"what to let them build?" It needs to meet this
> criteria - extremely basic construction but not so simple it fails to
> inspire a sense of accomplishment. It needs to require enough steps that
it
> teaches patience but not so much it becomes boring. It needs to have
> required techniques that forces me to teach and remained involved in the
> process but still allows them to proceed on their own.
>
> Yes I'm over thinking it. That's who I am. That's who my dad taught me
to
> be. Now it's my turn....
How about simple boxes? You can do the prep on the materials after you
involve them in the design process. They can to most of the glue-up after
you teach them how (I'm thinking simple mitred joints and some masking tape)
If they want to get fancy, they can line them in felt or velvet and they can
do a lot of the sanding and finishing.
Just my $.02
Ed
mel wrote:
> ages 13 & 10
Hmm. All my experience was with boys; but how about:
* A bike stand for parking their bikes where they won't be run
over - a convenience for everyone
* Small memory/treasure boxes for special keepsakes (a good
opportunity to learn/teach finishing)
* CD/DVD/video racks
* A reading (book) rack that holds a book open to the current page.
* Bulletin (cork) boards for their favorite poster and pictures
* If they're using computers with separate keyboards
(non-laptop), how about a monitor stand that stores the keyboard
so the work surface can be used for other things.
Z'is help?
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
"Al Reid" <[email protected]> writes:
> Speaking of ages, at what age do you let a child use the power
> tools? My 11 year old daughter (5th grade) wants me to teach her
> how to do the WW thing, but I am not sure if it is safe to expose
> her to the power tools.
My 11yr old was demonstrating woodturning at our local symposium last
year. She also uses the bandsaw and scroll saw, but not the table saw
or jointer. It's all about choosing which tools and techniques are
safe enough, and which aren't.
http://www.delorie.com/photos/20030510-gswt/IMG_0780.JPG