Okay thank you very much. That is the first perspective I have
read about any Wisner. I have been looking at them online only
for a few years now and they "look" beautiful. I also know a
local camera repair man who specializes in LF, he says the
Wisner company does very poorly dealing with warrentee repairs,
although I don't know all the dimensions of that... I have the
Bender 4x5 to build and have finished the front standard, and
there is this online set of plans, folding field 8x10, for free that
I want to try, I collected everything on it but I must practice those
box joints first. Take a look:
free http://www.srv.net/%7Evail/index.html upper of the two pics
plans $10 http://www.cyberbeach.net/~dbardell/camera.html
Best example I have seen of a homebuilt:
http://www.duckproductions.com/camerabuilding.htm
Alex
AArDvarK wrote:
>
> I would love to learn joinery, done by hand with
> chisels on a small scale, anyone know of a good
> site that has such tutorials please?
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DovetailDrawer0.html
http://www.shavings.net/DOVETAILS.HTM
http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/Dovetail/dovetailjoints.htm
http://www.amgron.clara.net/dovetails/dovetailindex.htm
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea12.html
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABS1821-0001-9
http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/homei/9811HIFMGM.html
Wolfgang
--
"Holzbearbeitung mit Handwerkzeugen": http://www.holzwerken.de
Forum Handwerkzeuge:
http://www.woodworking.de/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:40:40 -0700, "AArDvarK" <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>BTW you will NEVER find a wooden folding field
>camera from any maker that is showing dovetail corners.
>It ain't-not-never done man ...
Didn't Pam Niedermayer used to build those?
-
Don't be a possum on the Information Superhighway of life.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Database-Driven Websites
Pick up a copy of "The Encyclopedia of Joint Making" or "The Joint
Book" by Terrie Noll. I have the former and it's pretty good at
showing hand techniques. Also "The Complete Manual of Woodworking" is
also an excellent starting out book. Look in your local bookstore for
more joinery books. Amazon is okay, but you can't see what's between
the covers to see if it fits your criteria. As I'm always finding out,
there's more than one way to mark out and cut dovetails.
The term you're looking for is "box" or "finger" joint. It's used
in...you guessed it boxes...where the stresses are up or down rather
than sideways. The dovetail is good for boxes that experience lateral
stresses like a drawer front. The dovetails in the drawer sides keeps
the drawer front from pulling apart from the side panels. It's not
enough to know how to make a joint but also what joint is appropriate
for strength and aesthetics.
Layne
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:19:31 -0700, "AArDvarK" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I would love to learn joinery, done by hand with
>chisels on a small scale, anyone know of a good
>site that has such tutorials please? Dovetail seems
>to be the idea, but I think the other kind of fitting
>like that would be square as a start ... term?
>
>Thanks all,
>Alex
>
> Heh, oh, I know. My own (a Wisner, not the best, but nice) is certainly
> box jointed as is all the others I have seen. However, this is not
> necessarily because it is not suitable; what is needed is a very strong
> joint that works in thin stock. A box joint is easily made on a router
> or tablesaw, is highly accurate, extremely strong and -- IMO -- not too
> bad looking. All these are excellent reasons for a *manufacturer* to use
> the joint. *You* have more flexibility. The strength is still a must; no
> joint even remotely weak should be used. Outside of that, you have a lot
> more options then a person trying to make a buck at it. This is the
> great luxury of the amateur and why sometimes amateur work can far
> exceed professional work (outside of show pieces and ultra-high-end).
That is a very good set of points but I am skill-less. The box joint will
be the easiest to learn for chiseling anyway. M hidden dovetail is off
in the future too.
Wisners, never even saw one in person myself, much less touched one.
But why do you think, technically, that Wisner isn't the best? Which is
the best?
Alex
Camera, it needs box / finger type. Thank you.
Alex
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> why not dovetails?
> http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DovetailDrawer0.html
>
> charlie b
"Wolfgang Jordan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> AArDvarK wrote:
> >
> > I would love to learn joinery, done by hand with
> > chisels on a small scale, anyone know of a good
> > site that has such tutorials please?
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DovetailDrawer0.html
> http://www.shavings.net/DOVETAILS.HTM
> http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/Dovetail/dovetailjoints.htm
> http://www.amgron.clara.net/dovetails/dovetailindex.htm
> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea12.html
> http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABS1821-0001-9
> http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/homei/9811HIFMGM.html
>
> Wolfgang
> --
> "Holzbearbeitung mit Handwerkzeugen": http://www.holzwerken.de
> Forum Handwerkzeuge:
> http://www.woodworking.de/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl
Ja! das ist der VATO! Danka mucho mucho!
Excellent set of links that couldn't be found
with basic searching terms!
Alex
In article <jjNhc.19554$432.4291@fed1read01>,
"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Camera, it needs box / finger type. Thank you.
> Alex
Presumably you are building a view camera. Certainly the box joint is
traditional, but I don't see any reason why it *needs* this joint; a
dovetail should do equally well, although they would need to be quite
small and in very thin stock (typically) so would be a challenge.
>
> "charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > why not dovetails?
> > http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DovetailDrawer0.html
> >
> > charlie b
In article <iA6ic.20246$432.1782@fed1read01>,
"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Wisners, never even saw one in person myself, much less touched one.
> But why do you think, technically, that Wisner isn't the best? Which is
> the best?
Hmmm...I never used the word "technically", and did that quite on
purpose. Technically it is a light tight box and works quite admirably
at that. I have the Pocket Flight.
From a WW perspective, its fit and finish is not the greatest. There is
tear-out along quite a few of the joins. This is not surprising from
very thin american black cherry, but does detract from the workmanship.
It is, on the whole, not terribly inspired, WW wise. The metal bits are
aluminum covered with brass. I wish they would not have done that; the
brass will wear off eventually and look like crap. Better to have
embraced the aluminum.
On operation, some of the movements (particularly front/back swing) are
kind of sticky and clunky. No movements are geared. Front rise and fall
are -- IMO -- somewhat limited (though not horribly). The focus lock
know tends to tighten when you focus. Focus can bind a little here and
there. One of the levels is glacially slow.
This is mostly nit-picking; it is actually a pretty great camera and
insanely small and light for a 4x5; possibly one of the
smallest/lightest full-movements 4x5s around. In its class, the Ebony
seems better constructed (but also quite a bit more expensive).
Various models are different enough to eliminate the possibility of
naming a best, I think.
In article <qZWhc.19722$432.6287@fed1read01>,
"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote:
> BTW you will NEVER find a wooden folding field
> camera from any maker that is showing dovetail corners.
> It ain't-not-never done man ...
Heh, oh, I know. My own (a Wisner, not the best, but nice) is certainly
box jointed as is all the others I have seen. However, this is not
necessarily because it is not suitable; what is needed is a very strong
joint that works in thin stock. A box joint is easily made on a router
or tablesaw, is highly accurate, extremely strong and -- IMO -- not too
bad looking. All these are excellent reasons for a *manufacturer* to use
the joint. *You* have more flexibility. The strength is still a must; no
joint even remotely weak should be used. Outside of that, you have a lot
more options then a person trying to make a buck at it. This is the
great luxury of the amateur and why sometimes amateur work can far
exceed professional work (outside of show pieces and ultra-high-end).
In article <3ihjc.92$k24.36@fed1read01>,
"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Okay thank you very much. That is the first perspective I have
> read about any Wisner. I have been looking at them online only
> for a few years now and they "look" beautiful. I also know a
> local camera repair man who specializes in LF, he says the
> Wisner company does very poorly dealing with warrentee repairs,
> although I don't know all the dimensions of that...
They are purdy. I think an Ebony is more beautiful, but the only one I
had an opportunity to own didn't have interchangeable bellows, a must
for me. Still I have no major complaints. On service...well, I haven't
had any issues (no service to be done), but some have complained
bitterly. One of the "hot" issues.
> I have the
> Bender 4x5 to build and have finished the front standard, and
> there is this online set of plans, folding field 8x10, for free that
> I want to try, I collected everything on it but I must practice those
> box joints first. Take a look:
> free http://www.srv.net/%7Evail/index.html upper of the two pics
> plans $10 http://www.cyberbeach.net/~dbardell/camera.html
> Best example I have seen of a homebuilt:
> http://www.duckproductions.com/camerabuilding.htm
I have had a look at those before; I also considered building my own. I
have heard it said that you can build cameras or you can use cameras but
you can't do both. Might be some truth to that.
Good luck with your project! Make sure you post pics.
BTW, go to http://largeformatphotography.info . Their forum (and on-line
articles) are second to none, IMO. A few builders there too. Somewhere
there is a mailing list for builders too...
> Presumably you are building a view camera. Certainly the box joint is
> traditional, but I don't see any reason why it *needs* this joint; a
> dovetail should do equally well, although they would need to be quite
> small and in very thin stock (typically) so would be a challenge.
1/4" thick cherry, carvable strong wood for cameras.
The point is learning it in order to accomplish it, that is
the value, which is the real need, to creat a thing of beauty
that is useable, and I am genuinly "nowhere man" in this
skill.
Further I have found that the hidden dovetail idea is even
more of a turn-on, with diagonal corner connections. This
would be highly astheticaly accepatble. So now I am
looking at hand chisels and prices, I have a Sandvik but
it is a 3/4" and I'll need a 1/8" or a 1/4". I don't know if
I need bevel edge or mortise type. Just trying to learn here.
Any good brands at good prices? I noticed the Crown
brand from the U.K. are nicely priced ... but I would prefer
U.S. made.
BTW you will NEVER find a wooden folding field
camera from any maker that is showing dovetail corners.
It ain't-not-never done man ...
thanks for your input,
Alex
AArDvarK writes:
>
>Further I have found that the hidden dovetail idea is even
>more of a turn-on, with diagonal corner connections. This
>would be highly astheticaly accepatble. So now I am
>looking at hand chisels and prices, I have a Sandvik but
>it is a 3/4" and I'll need a 1/8" or a 1/4". I don't know if
>I need bevel edge or mortise type. Just trying to learn here.
>Any good brands at good prices? I noticed the Crown
>brand from the U.K. are nicely priced ... but I would prefer
>U.S. made.
>
Freud is not US made, but is a good chisel. You need a bevel type, NOT a
mortising chisel.
>BTW you will NEVER find a wooden folding field
>camera from any maker that is showing dovetail corners.
>It ain't-not-never done man ...
Sounds like a good reason to try to build one that way.
Charlie Self
"Property is not the sacred right. When a rich man becomes poor it is a
misfortune, it is not a moral evil. When a poor man becomes destitute, it is a
moral evil, teeming with consequences and injurious to society and morality."
Lord Acton
Do you mean a box joint?
Consider wandering on over to the local library or book store and look
specifically at books on joinery.
Michael
"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:POzhc.18960$432.18348@fed1read01...
> I would love to learn joinery, done by hand with
> chisels on a small scale, anyone know of a good
> site that has such tutorials please? Dovetail seems
> to be the idea, but I think the other kind of fitting
> like that would be square as a start ... term?
>
> Thanks all,
> Alex
>
>