been thinking.....
one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
entering the stream of air.
hey, it might work....
Bridger
In article <[email protected]>, George
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Of course, coal is ground to dust and sprayed in new boilers, but except as
> some money sink, I can't see why you'd choose any method over anthracite.
You haven't checked prices and shipping rate for smith-grade coal, have
you?
If you can show up at with a truck at the coal mine, even top-grade
forge coal is cheaper than the gas to haul it. If you live too far to
make that practical, then you don't even want to know the rate for a
pallet of bagged Old Smithy coal.
Kevin
Wish I was.
HB
"Mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Glad I'm not your neighbor
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > been thinking.....
> > one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
> > and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
> > make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
> > just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
> > ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
> > gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
> > it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
> > mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
> > entering the stream of air.
> >
> > hey, it might work....
> >
> > Bridger
>
Glad I'm not your neighbor
[email protected] wrote:
> been thinking.....
> one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
> and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
> make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
> just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
> ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
> gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
> it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
> mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
> entering the stream of air.
>
> hey, it might work....
>
> Bridger
No coal or sawdust needed. Use LP gas!
See http://www.reil1.net/design.shtml for a bunch of LP burner
designs that don't need blowers. Also a full-blown forge at
http://www.auroraforge.com/blacksmithing.
Clarke
[email protected] wrote:
>
> been thinking.....
> one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
> and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
> make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
> just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
> ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
> gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
> it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
> mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
> entering the stream of air.
>
> hey, it might work....
>
> Bridger
Of course, coal is ground to dust and sprayed in new boilers, but except as
some money sink, I can't see why you'd choose any method over anthracite. A
lot of things must be kept within narrow limits to keep the right mix.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> been thinking.....
> one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
> and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
> make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
> just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
> ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
> gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
> it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
> mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
> entering the stream of air.
Tue, Dec 23, 2003, 8:20am [email protected] (George) says:
<snip> I can't see why you'd choose any method over anthracite. <snip>
Sound like you're missing the point.
JOAT
My last name is not, "Damn It".
- God
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 23 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
Nope, recognizing the difficulties, I merely remarked that it did not seem
worth the effort. A point which others have made over and over.
Oh yes, carbon density in hardwood makes it a much better choice for
charcoal, crotchety old caps-posters notwithstanding. Now, if he sets up a
turpentine distillation retort....
"T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tue, Dec 23, 2003, 8:20am [email protected] (George) says:
> <snip> I can't see why you'd choose any method over anthracite. <snip>
>
> Sound like you're missing the point.
>
> JOAT
I can still get mine from off the tracks, so nope, I haven't.
Sounds like charcoal might be an option, depending on your hardwood
availability.
"Kevin Craig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:231220030930361517%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, George
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Of course, coal is ground to dust and sprayed in new boilers, but except
as
> > some money sink, I can't see why you'd choose any method over
anthracite.
>
> You haven't checked prices and shipping rate for smith-grade coal, have
> you?
>
> If you can show up at with a truck at the coal mine, even top-grade
> forge coal is cheaper than the gas to haul it. If you live too far to
> make that practical, then you don't even want to know the rate for a
> pallet of bagged Old Smithy coal.
>
> Kevin
Tue, Dec 23, 2003, 1:14pm [email protected] (George) says:
Sounds like charcoal might be an option, depending on your hardwood
availability.
Doesn't matter, you can make charcoal from any type of wood, even
sawdust.
JOAT
My last name is not, "Damn It".
- God
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 23 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:57:36 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing.
That's different from a blast furnace. A blast furnace reduces iron
oxide ores to metallic iron, so you need a fuel that can give a
reducing atmosphere. You also need an atmosphere that's free of
impurities (particularly sulphur, the minor additions and any tendency
to excess carbon) Sawdust won't do this - far too many volatile
hydrocarbons.
Even for smithing, I doubt if sawdust is usable. Perhaps if you could
burn it to charcoal first, but that's going to need a sealed retort as
you cant burn sawdust in a charcoal burner's mound or a drum.
--
Klein bottle for rent. Apply within.
Somebody wrote:
>I'd really like to see a simple, workable sawdust burner design. It
>might help a lot of smiths and potters.
Basically what you have to do is very similar to what coal fired utilities
do with coal.
They grind the coal almost as fine as talcum powder, then blow it in the top
of the boiler, which may be 5-6 stories high, and allow it to burn in the
air while falling to the ground.
You face the same probelm with sawdust.
You need to aerate the sawdust so that it will burn.
Not an easy job to do in your typical shop.
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> been thinking.....
> one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
> and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
> make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
> just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
> ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
> gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
> it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
> mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
> entering the stream of air.
>
> hey, it might work....
>
> Bridger
One of the local pine mills here burned sawdust to heat the kiln... come to
think of it, the kiln burned to the ground 20 years ago:).
[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> been thinking.....
> one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
> and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
> make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
> just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
> ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
> gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
> it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
> mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
> entering the stream of air.
>
> hey, it might work....
>
> Bridger
It'll work just fine if you can figure out a way to control the
transfer the sawdust to the burner.
I've tried to build sawdust burners for pottery kilns with limited
success.
The main problem is feeding the sawdust into the burner. Fairly large
volumes of sawdust are required & if you care at all about efficiency
the rate of feed has to be constant.
I was pretty successful in making an auger feeder to mix the sawdust
with the airstream but had problems reliably transfering the sawdust
to the auger. I tried a funnel type supply to the auger, but was
constantly faced with the sawdust bridging over in the narrow neck of
the funnel thereby interrupting the feed rate.
Maintaining ignition is not a problem once the kiln is red.
A good strategy might be to build a fluidized bed for the sawdust then
draw off the fluidized mixture as needed. It'd be pretty easy to do if
the dust is coarse enough. The coarse dust from a two stage dust
collector might work in a fluidized bed.
If you are interested I can post some numbers about air/dust ratios,
dust densities, etc.
I'd really like to see a simple, workable sawdust burner design. It
might help a lot of smiths and potters.
Tue, Dec 23, 2003, 8:27am (EST-3) [email protected] (dave=A0martin)
says:
<snip> I tried a funnel type supply to the auger, but was constantly
faced with the sawdust bridging over in the narrow neck of the funnel
thereby interrupting the feed rate. <snip> I'd really like to see a
simple, workable sawdust burner design. It might help a lot of smiths
and potters.
Been a long time since I've checked anything on a sawdust feed.
You can probably get info on reliable systems checking on sawmill
burners/boilers, they often use sawdust. I think they mostly use
augers, with a large feed, not funnelled, because of the sawdust not
feeding well. I think they may have the auger at an angle, too, to help
combat that. A larger auger should work better than a small one, run
slower. I would say a hand crank, rather than electric, unless you're
willing to pay the electric. I don't recall if any of the feed bins had
some kind of a stirrer, or thumper, to keep the sawdust from bridging,
or not. That'd be a lot more of a problem with damp sawdust, than dry.
Hmm, seems to me at least one of the big mills had an auger that moved,
to agitate, the sawdust. That'd probably be a lot more expensive, and
comples, than just beating on the side of the bin with a mallet. Seems
to me some of the hobby steamers use sawdust too. There, you'd probably
have to scale a working design up, rather than down. I'd say use
google.
I would think you could probably scale one down for potters. But,
I've seen something on the wab on using sawdust successfully for
pottery. But, I believe it was packed, not fed.
JOAT
My last name is not, "Damn It".
- God
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 23 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
HEY!
cut it out with the off topic stuff already.
Bridger
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:58:15 -0700, Clarke Echols <[email protected]>
wrote:
>No coal or sawdust needed. Use LP gas!
>
>See http://www.reil1.net/design.shtml for a bunch of LP burner
>designs that don't need blowers. Also a full-blown forge at
>http://www.auroraforge.com/blacksmithing.
>
>Clarke
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> been thinking.....
>> one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
>> and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
>> make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
>> just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
>> ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
>> gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
>> it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
>> mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
>> entering the stream of air.
>>
>> hey, it might work....
>>
>> Bridger
On 23 Dec 2003 08:27:40 -0800, [email protected] (dave martin)
wrote:
snip
>A good strategy might be to build a fluidized bed for the sawdust then
>draw off the fluidized mixture as needed. It'd be pretty easy to do if
>the dust is coarse enough. The coarse dust from a two stage dust
>collector might work in a fluidized bed.
well, you already have a blower going, so I guess some of that air
could be used for the fluidized bed. if the blower outlet routes
through the sawdust bin on it's way to the burner and has baffles and
vents in it it just might work. could get exciting in a flashback
though.
>
>If you are interested I can post some numbers about air/dust ratios,
>dust densities, etc.
please
>
>I'd really like to see a simple, workable sawdust burner design. It
>might help a lot of smiths and potters.
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 19:59:17 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:57:36 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing.
>
>That's different from a blast furnace.
Your'e right. I even thought about that difference as I was typing
that, but I went ahead.... late night, I guess. I 'spose what I was
looking for is more properly called a sawdust fired forge.... although
to be frank about it, a lot of what I'm curoius about is what it would
take to sustain a high volume sawdust flame.
> A blast furnace reduces iron
>oxide ores to metallic iron, so you need a fuel that can give a
>reducing atmosphere. You also need an atmosphere that's free of
>impurities (particularly sulphur, the minor additions and any tendency
>to excess carbon) Sawdust won't do this - far too many volatile
>hydrocarbons.
>
>Even for smithing, I doubt if sawdust is usable. Perhaps if you could
>burn it to charcoal first, but that's going to need a sealed retort as
>you cant burn sawdust in a charcoal burner's mound or a drum.
Tue, Dec 23, 2003, 2:43pm (EST-2) [email protected] now admits:
Your'e right. I even thought about that difference as I was typing that,
but I went ahead.... late night, I guess. I 'spose what I was looking
for is more properly called a sawdust fired forge.... although to be
frank about it, a lot of what I'm curoius about is what it would take to
sustain a high volume sawdust flame.
Shoulda said. Probably just keep feeding the forge sawdust.
Forges'll work with wood. Uh, you do have a real forge, with a real
blower, of some ttype?
There is loads of stuff on forges on the web. A bout 30 seonds
with google will give you a lot.
JOAT
My last name is not, "Damn It".
- God
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 23 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
[email protected] said:
>been thinking.....
>one thing I'd like to play with is blacksmithing. I have a small forge
>and a trashcan full of coal, so it's not like I NEED another way to
>make iron turn red, but I regularly generate bunches of sawdust and I
>just happen to have a spare blower just laying about. anybody here
>ever built a sawdust fired blast furnace? seems to me the trick is
>gonna be to get the mix of sawdust and air right and to keep it lit.
>it might need a "pilot" of a propane flame and some sort of sifting
>mechanism to act like a carbeurator to keep a steady amount of sawdust
>entering the stream of air.
>
>hey, it might work....
Hey, you better ground it or it'll explode. <g>
Greg G.