Making a buck saw

In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I had to run some errands tonight, so I didn't get the opportunity to
> get them together, but I'll make sure they're up by this weekend.
> With any luck, I'll get the camera to work by then as well...

Where's C-less?

I do believe he had a project that could be expanded to a proper buck
saw...

Oh, Larry?

<d&rvvf>

--
"I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow..." - Frank Zappa

Morris Dovey wrote:

> I don't think I'd bother with handle below the blade.

The handle below the blade is useful for controlling twist. If it's a
big buck saw and you're using it with two people for rough firewood
crosscutting, then it's worth having.

I wouldn't have it on a workshop bow saw, but I would put one on a
firewood saw.

Regarding your buck saw, don't use curly maple...

The one I made that didn't break is made from Doug Fir.
I used roll pins to hold the blade in place, and a rawhide
shoe string to tension it.

Works pretty well but instead of a straight "H" I should have
angled the uprights in for more of an "A" frame to get a more
comfortable grip on the saw.

--

FF

Andy Dingley wrote:
> ...
>
> Drill the blade before adjusting the frame. The holes should be punched
> (or plasma cut). If you drill them, it's a swine of a job and they're
> likely to end up not exactly where you planned.
>

I've read (here on rec.woodorking IIRC)
that drilling a hole in a saw blade, like
a bandsawblade being used for frame saw,
can be madeeasy by "spot annealing" the
location where the hole is to be drilled.
This can be done by chucking a blunt
rod, like a nail with the tip ground off
in a drill press and pressing that at high
speed against the spot until it glows red.
Then let it air cool and drill the hole.

Have you seen the guy at the woodworking
shows who sells the drill bits that drill
through files? He uses a similar technique,
only he anneals with the point of his
carbide bit, resting it on the surface
for a few seconds before he drills through.
That also explains why he doesn't use coolant.

--

FF

Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 3 Aug 2005 08:08:05 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >can be madeeasy by "spot annealing" the
> >location where the hole is to be drilled.
>
> This is a much over-rated process. Your sheet has a heatsink, the drill
> bit is a thin wire. In a rate to softening point, the drill is likely to
> lose. It works, but it's very hard on your drills. Use an small masonry
> bit to anneal the spot instead, then drill with a cold twist dril.

That's why I said to anneal it with a blunt rod like a nail
with the point ground off.

>
> >Have you seen the guy at the woodworking
> >shows who sells the drill bits that drill
> >through files?
>
> Not for ages. But these drill bits are just M42 grade HSS, which you can
> buy at good (i.e. industrial) toolshops. They're usually silver, not
> black and never gold coloured. They are _not_ blue or rainbow coloured -
> those are cheap knock-off "cobalt coated" bits and are worthless.

The guy I bought mine from said the point on the tip was made from
silicon (not tungsten) carbide. These were black.

--

FF

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:53:07 -0500, Prometheus <[email protected]>
wrote:

>my inclination is to use a loose mortise and tenon
>joint with a wooden dowel to keep it from falling apart when changing
>the blade.

Just make a lose mortice and tenon. Needing to be laid flat when you
assemble it isn't a problem and the ability to pack it flat and store it
all in a tube or tied into a bundle is useful.

Don't make the blade retaining pegs too small. If you do use small steel
pegs, bush the holes in the wooden frame with a piece of copper pipe
(aircon or brakepipe)

Drill the blade before adjusting the frame. The holes should be punched
(or plasma cut). If you drill them, it's a swine of a job and they're
likely to end up not exactly where you planned.

String is important. It needs to have some stretch to it, so old cotton
string is fine, modern ultra-strong non-stretch isn't. There's always
some flex in the frame and you want a string that is stretched with some
strain in it, not one that goes slack as soon as the ends move in a bit.

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:33:52 -0500, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Prometheus (in [email protected]) said:
>
>| If anyone would like a detailed description or some kind of plan,
>let
>| me know and I'll post those instead.
>
>Both? (Please.)

Got the *plan* up on ABPW, sorry about the delay- lots of stuff going
on this week. Works really well, but it's right on the edge of being
a two-person saw. If you decide to make one like it, make sure you've
got a good sawbuck! The plan is a little rough, it's been a while
since I used Corel Draw, so if you've any questions, just let me know
and I'll clarify things. The shape of the handles is a rough
approximation of a picture I found on an antique tools website, and
the crossbar just has those little reliefs on it so it doesn't look
too clunky. My first inclination was to file the handles to round
them over, but after about 30 minutes of that, I remembered my PC690,
and decided to just use a roundover :)

The saw is hard maple, and there is very little bowing when in use.
Might put some little walnut inserts in it to dress it up, but I
haven't decided yet. Either way, it's in use now, so I figure I've
got time to decide that later.

Prometheus wrote:
> Broke my bow saw last weekend, and I figured that rather than simply
> replacing the damaged blade and missing rivet, I'd make my own out of
> hard maple and a replacement blade. Obviously, this isn't a terrribly
> hard job, but I figured I'd see if anyone has got any pointers that I
> may not have considered.
snip

Ask C-less. Hehehehe. GD&R
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use: daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

Prometheus wrote:
snip
> Anyhow, thanks for all the suggestions- I got it finished Sunday
> night, and it works great, but now I can't get the camera to turn on
> (for anyone in the market for digital cameras, the Polaroid we got has
> been nothing but headaches.)

Mine too. I went back to using the Fuji. OTOH, the Polaroid worked
just fine after I put it on the skeet thrower. Flew out about 20 yds
before I got a good bead on it. Didn't fly flat though, lots of
rotation.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use: daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

Larry Jaques wrote:
> That bow saur is my Unfinished Symphony, dude. Gimme a break.

Totally. If you ever finished it we'd all be poorer. It's much more
fun with it being a vapor tool. %-)

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use: daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

Larry Jaques wrote:
> It's not a vapor tool, it's simply a work in progress, Dave.

Then here's to the journey. And I meant it about the poorer.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use: daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:56:00 -0500, Australopithecus scobis
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:18:08 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:
>
>>>I actually grabbed a set of 1/4" bolts for securing the blade
>>
>> Bolts or screws ? If you're sitting a thin piece of metal on it, make
>> sure it's resting on a plain shank, not a thread, or else it won't be
>> stable.

Pressure of the wood on either side is the holding/stablizing force.
Works nice for me, though if it presents any problems down the road,
I'll use pins for them instead when I replace the blade.

>I cut slots in the bolt with a hacksaw. The blade gets better support
>that way. My big framesaw (27") uses little nuts and bolts; my little one
>(12") just has twists of paperclip wire in each hole. File a flat in the
>side of the bolt before you drill, too.
>
>FWIW, I simply scaled up the bugsaw (DAGS) plan for my big saw; I think it
>turned out beefier than it needs to be.

Couldn't get a relevant hit on "bugsaw" on Google, but I did come up
with a nice saw by copying a design from an antiques site.

Anyhow, thanks for all the suggestions- I got it finished Sunday
night, and it works great, but now I can't get the camera to turn on
(for anyone in the market for digital cameras, the Polaroid we got has
been nothing but headaches.) I'll post the pics as soon as I can get
them taken- but I might be waiting on warranty work. If anyone would
like a detailed description or some kind of plan, let me know and I'll
post those instead.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 23:03:42 -0700, the opaque Fly-by-Night CC
<[email protected]> clearly wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>> Huh? Why would I take pictures of a hand punch, Owie? ;)
>
>Your sidestep indicates the answer is "no." ;)

That bow saur is my Unfinished Symphony, dude. Gimme a break.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --

Prometheus (in [email protected]) said:

| My general idea is to make a basic H-frame with the blade on one
| side, and a threaded rod on the other (to adjust the tension with a
| wrench- I know there are some methods that use a cable, but I

You might consider screen door hardware: a center turnbuckle with
(IIRC) 1/8" or 3/16" rods threaded about 1-/1/2" on one end and an eye
on the other for tensioning the blade.

| figured the rod would be a little bit more solid) So as far as I
| can see, I have only two or three things to consider here- first is
| the joinery for that middle crossbar; my inclination is to use a
| loose mortise and tenon joint with a wooden dowel to keep it from
| falling apart when changing the blade. I figure a little bit of
| slack will allow the joint to move when the blade is tensioned (no
| glue in the joint, obviously) The second consideration is a matter

The loose M&T approach is a good one. I don't think the dowels are
needed - and suspect that the saw might be stronger without drilling
for the dowel. The saw should be easy to assemble on a flat surface
and, once assembled and tensioned, doesn't need dowels to stay
together. I think you'll do better by supporting the crosspiece on the
shoulders of the tenon than on a dowel or pin through the tenon.

| of basic design- what I've used in the past is the standard metal
| bow saw, but I've seen that the older saws have a frame that
| extends below the blade on one side. Generally, I'm using the saw
| on logs that are laying on or near the ground, so I'm afraid it
| could get in the way, but if there is a compelling reason to keep
| that extended frame, I'm sure I can work with it (my guess is it
| helps to keep the blade plumb, but I couldn't say for sure) The
| third is whether it's useful to leave a set of handles on the top
| of the saw above the tensioning rod, or if that is simply too high
| and unsteady when you use it. Weight isn't much of an issue, just
| performance.

I don't think I'd bother with handle below the blade. I'd guess that
it might make starting a cut somewhat easier with really agressive
blades; but if it gets in the way, I'd omit it.

Be nice to yourself and the saw - roll the log onto something that
holds it off the ground for sawing. There isn't any part of a saw that
likes dirt and gravel. Even a foot-long piece of 4x4 can save a lot of
wear and tear.

Weight can have a substantial effect on the /sawyer/, which will
affect performance.

| So, can anyone spot any holes in my plan that I may have missed?
| I'd hate to use the last of my rock maple, and then have to smack
| myself upside the head because I forgot something really important.
| I can always try again, but it's nice to do it right the first
| time. I've also got a good plank of 4/4 ash that I could use, if
| it's a better wood for the job (It has more spring than maple,
| IIRC.)

Unless you're trying for a masterpiece on the first try, build it out
of whatever you think'll hold up decently - then you can feel more
free to rebuild individual parts for greater ease of use, comfort,
etc. I built my first from pine and ended up doing a fair amount of
sanding to make the handle comfortable.

| To try to anticipate the inevitable requests for more info, the saw
| will be for cross-cutting logs for turning blanks because I don't
| have a chainsaw and can't afford one right now (at least, not one
| worth having). I'm making it, and not buying it because I want a

While there's a certain amount of satisfaction to be had from making
the saw and using it to cut blanks for turning, don't overlook the
possibility of renting a chain saw so that you'll have time and energy
left over for turning. :-)

| If it works out well, I'm considering a frame saw for resawing short
| planks out of some of the trunks I come across (hard to find spalted
| wood at the lumber supplier, after all) so any good links to nice
| rip blades for a hand saw would also be appreciated!

Interesting! Don't forget to post photos to ABPW...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Hello all,
>
> Broke my bow saw last weekend, and I figured that rather than simply
> replacing the damaged blade and missing rivet, I'd make my own out of
> hard maple and a replacement blade. Obviously, this isn't a terrribly
> hard job, but I figured I'd see if anyone has got any pointers that I
> may not have considered.
>

Check the articles section of the hand tools board at Woodcentral.com.
There are some excellent pointers on various user-crafted saws posted.

And let us know how it turns out. This is one of those 'some day' projects
for me.

Patriarch

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:52:51 -0500, Prometheus <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I actually grabbed a set of 1/4" bolts for securing the blade

Bolts or screws ? If you're sitting a thin piece of metal on it, make
sure it's resting on a plain shank, not a thread, or else it won't be
stable.

I need to drill / punch my blades because I'm generally making them from
bandsaw blade.

>As noted in the original post, I was looking at using a piece of
>threaded rod, and adjusting the tension with a nut. Is there some
>reason why this might not work, or is it just that the string is
>traditional?

That's a frame saw, rather than a bow saw. The difference is that you do
need to have a rigid frame, so that any flexing that goes on is small
enough not to loosen the blade tension. This means bigger, thicker,
stiffer frames (heavier too) and joints with less wobble.

Personally I'd use string and a spanish windlass (stick and twisting).
It's low-tech, but it's lightweight and it works.

"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:14:26 GMT, the opaque Dave in Fairfax
> <[email protected]> clearly wrote:
>
>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> That bow saur is my Unfinished Symphony, dude. Gimme a break.
>>
>>Totally. If you ever finished it we'd all be poorer. It's much more
>>fun with it being a vapor tool. %-)
>
> It's not a vapor tool, it's simply a work in progress, Dave.
>

Speaking of works in progress, is Dina finally finished, or is it still a
"work in progress"?(R,D&G)

--
Nahmie
The greatest headaches are those we cause ourselves.

On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:14:26 GMT, the opaque Dave in Fairfax
<[email protected]> clearly wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> That bow saur is my Unfinished Symphony, dude. Gimme a break.
>
>Totally. If you ever finished it we'd all be poorer. It's much more
>fun with it being a vapor tool. %-)

It's not a vapor tool, it's simply a work in progress, Dave.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, the term "Homo Sapiens" is a goal, not a description.
----
http://www.diversify.com Web Design for YOUR Business!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:18:08 +0100, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:52:51 -0500, Prometheus <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>I actually grabbed a set of 1/4" bolts for securing the blade
>
>Bolts or screws ? If you're sitting a thin piece of metal on it, make
>sure it's resting on a plain shank, not a thread, or else it won't be
>stable.

Ah, I'll fill this in a bit- the plan is to make the vertical members
of the frame out ot two pieces of laminated 4/4 stock, with a very
small dado for the blade, then drilling holes large enough for the
bolt head and the nut to sit in the recess. The blade won't be held
directly by the bolt, though the bolt will go through the hole in the
blade for positioning. Main holding power will be the clamping action
of the two bits of wood.

The thought being that a nice flat surface to hold the blade is a
little easier on it, my aforementioned galootish hands like a thicker
handle, and the frame will flex less with a 1.5" thick frame. Not to
mention the fact that with this method, the mortise becomes two
matching dadoes, which is always a little easier to cut!

>I need to drill / punch my blades because I'm generally making them from
>bandsaw blade.
>
>>As noted in the original post, I was looking at using a piece of
>>threaded rod, and adjusting the tension with a nut. Is there some
>>reason why this might not work, or is it just that the string is
>>traditional?
>
>That's a frame saw, rather than a bow saw. The difference is that you do
>need to have a rigid frame, so that any flexing that goes on is small
>enough not to loosen the blade tension. This means bigger, thicker,
>stiffer frames (heavier too) and joints with less wobble.

Sounds like the Frame saw is what I'm looking at- I figure it'll be
nice to use for a while, and then when I upgrade to a good chainsaw,
it'll look good on the wall of the shop, at least.

>Personally I'd use string and a spanish windlass (stick and twisting).
>It's low-tech, but it's lightweight and it works.

If I have time, I might try both methods out- nothing wrong with the
idea of having one in the car for an emergency.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:46:48 +0100, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:53:07 -0500, Prometheus <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>my inclination is to use a loose mortise and tenon
>>joint with a wooden dowel to keep it from falling apart when changing
>>the blade.
>
>Just make a lose mortice and tenon. Needing to be laid flat when you
>assemble it isn't a problem and the ability to pack it flat and store it
>all in a tube or tied into a bundle is useful.
>
>Don't make the blade retaining pegs too small. If you do use small steel
>pegs, bush the holes in the wooden frame with a piece of copper pipe
>(aircon or brakepipe)

I actually grabbed a set of 1/4" bolts for securing the blade- the bit
that broke on the steel one I had was the rivet that held the blade,
so it seemed sort of safer to bolt that blade on. Bad idea, or is it
just less convienient than the pegs?

>Drill the blade before adjusting the frame. The holes should be punched
>(or plasma cut). If you drill them, it's a swine of a job and they're
>likely to end up not exactly where you planned.

Got lucky there- the blade I bought has two pairs of holes already in
place. Standard in these parts.

>String is important. It needs to have some stretch to it, so old cotton
>string is fine, modern ultra-strong non-stretch isn't. There's always
>some flex in the frame and you want a string that is stretched with some
>strain in it, not one that goes slack as soon as the ends move in a bit.

As noted in the original post, I was looking at using a piece of
threaded rod, and adjusting the tension with a nut. Is there some
reason why this might not work, or is it just that the string is
traditional? If I need to have the string, I've got some cotton
clothesline that might do the job.

On 3 Aug 2005 08:08:05 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>that drilling a hole in a saw blade, like
>a bandsawblade being used for frame saw,

This is an awkward process, not because it's hard to make the hole but
that it's hard to place the hole accurately. It's not easy to start the
hole accurately and because it's thin, tough steel there's a risk of
snatching on breakthrough.

>can be madeeasy by "spot annealing" the
>location where the hole is to be drilled.

This is a much over-rated process. Your sheet has a heatsink, the drill
bit is a thin wire. In a rate to softening point, the drill is likely to
lose. It works, but it's very hard on your drills. Use an small masonry
bit to anneal the spot instead, then drill with a cold twist dril.

>Have you seen the guy at the woodworking
>shows who sells the drill bits that drill
>through files?

Not for ages. But these drill bits are just M42 grade HSS, which you can
buy at good (i.e. industrial) toolshops. They're usually silver, not
black and never gold coloured. They are _not_ blue or rainbow coloured -
those are cheap knock-off "cobalt coated" bits and are worthless.

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

> >> That bow saur is my Unfinished Symphony, dude. Gimme a break.
> >
> >Totally. If you ever finished it we'd all be poorer. It's much more
> >fun with it being a vapor tool. %-)
>
> It's not a vapor tool, it's simply a work in progress, Dave.

Mr. Jaques' Opus?
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

> I used a hand punch press to pop holes in bandsaw blade stock
> for my infamous bow saur.

Got pichers a that thin'yet?
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

> Huh? Why would I take pictures of a hand punch, Owie? ;)

Your sidestep indicates the answer is "no." ;)
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:18:08 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:

>>I actually grabbed a set of 1/4" bolts for securing the blade
>
> Bolts or screws ? If you're sitting a thin piece of metal on it, make
> sure it's resting on a plain shank, not a thread, or else it won't be
> stable.

I cut slots in the bolt with a hacksaw. The blade gets better support
that way. My big framesaw (27") uses little nuts and bolts; my little one
(12") just has twists of paperclip wire in each hole. File a flat in the
side of the bolt before you drill, too.

FWIW, I simply scaled up the bugsaw (DAGS) plan for my big saw; I think it
turned out beefier than it needs to be.

--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:18:08 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:

> Personally I'd use string and a spanish windlass (stick and twisting).
> It's low-tech, but it's lightweight and it works.

(shoulda put this in 'tother post.)

I use 3/16" garage door opener cable on the 27" framesaw. Bootlace and
1/8" cable both snapped when I torqued them up. (Watch out. That stick
_hurts_ when it whips around!) Little saw just uses a bootlace.

--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:08:05 -0700, fredfighter wrote:

> I've read (here on rec.woodorking IIRC)
> that drilling a hole in a saw blade, like
> a bandsawblade being used for frame saw,
> can be madeeasy by "spot annealing" the
> location where the hole is to be drilled.
> This can be done by chucking a blunt
> rod, like a nail with the tip ground off
> in a drill press and pressing that at high
> speed against the spot until it glows red.
> Then let it air cool and drill the hole.

I asked the mavens on rec.crafts.metalworking about that technique. Don't
try it on high speed steel, they point out.

--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:29:40 GMT, Dave in Fairfax <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Prometheus wrote:
>> Broke my bow saw last weekend, and I figured that rather than simply
>> replacing the damaged blade and missing rivet, I'd make my own out of
>> hard maple and a replacement blade. Obviously, this isn't a terrribly
>> hard job, but I figured I'd see if anyone has got any pointers that I
>> may not have considered.
>snip
>
>Ask C-less. Hehehehe. GD&R
>Dave in Fairfax

Ahh... perhaps I should make a point of posting pics of the finished
saw on ABPW, eh? :)

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:33:52 -0500, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Prometheus (in [email protected]) said:
>
>| If anyone would like a detailed description or some kind of plan,
>let
>| me know and I'll post those instead.
>
>Both? (Please.)

I had to run some errands tonight, so I didn't get the opportunity to
get them together, but I'll make sure they're up by this weekend.
With any luck, I'll get the camera to work by then as well...

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:09:36 -0500, the opaque Australopithecus scobis
<[email protected]> clearly wrote:

>On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:08:05 -0700, fredfighter wrote:
>
>> I've read (here on rec.woodorking IIRC)
>> that drilling a hole in a saw blade, like
>> a bandsawblade being used for frame saw,
>> can be madeeasy by "spot annealing" the
>> location where the hole is to be drilled.
>> This can be done by chucking a blunt
>> rod, like a nail with the tip ground off
>> in a drill press and pressing that at high
>> speed against the spot until it glows red.
>> Then let it air cool and drill the hole.
>
>I asked the mavens on rec.crafts.metalworking about that technique. Don't
>try it on high speed steel, they point out.

I used a hand punch press to pop holes in bandsaw blade stock
for my infamous bow saur. Vive la Roper Whitney!


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:29:40 GMT, the opaque Dave in Fairfax
<[email protected]> clearly wrote:

>Prometheus wrote:
>> Broke my bow saw last weekend, and I figured that rather than simply
>> replacing the damaged blade and missing rivet, I'd make my own out of
>> hard maple and a replacement blade. Obviously, this isn't a terrribly
>> hard job, but I figured I'd see if anyone has got any pointers that I
>> may not have considered.
>snip
>
>Ask C-less. Hehehehe. GD&R

I'm not available for consultation on that subject at the moment,
though my (half) vast experience in the subject is of majestic
notoriety. Thanks for thinking of me, Dave. ;)


--
Our ToolyRoo(tm) and Possum(tm) Handy Pouch Samples now available!
Never misplace your portable power tool accessories again!
http://diversify.com/handypouches.html

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 10:50:13 -0700, the opaque Fly-by-Night CC
<[email protected]> clearly wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>> I used a hand punch press to pop holes in bandsaw blade stock
>> for my infamous bow saur.
>
>Got pichers a that thin'yet?

Huh? Why would I take pictures of a hand punch, Owie? ;)


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 02:01:50 -0500, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Prometheus (in [email protected]) said:
>
>| My general idea is to make a basic H-frame with the blade on one
>| side, and a threaded rod on the other (to adjust the tension with a
>| wrench- I know there are some methods that use a cable, but I
>
>You might consider screen door hardware: a center turnbuckle with
>(IIRC) 1/8" or 3/16" rods threaded about 1-/1/2" on one end and an eye
>on the other for tensioning the blade.

I had considered that, but as I sat there in the middle of the
hardware aisle while my wife was waiting in the car, I figured I'd
better just nab what I good and get back before she roasted in the
sun... That may be an upgrade later on, though.

>| figured the rod would be a little bit more solid) So as far as I
>| can see, I have only two or three things to consider here- first is
>| the joinery for that middle crossbar; my inclination is to use a
>| loose mortise and tenon joint with a wooden dowel to keep it from
>| falling apart when changing the blade. I figure a little bit of
>| slack will allow the joint to move when the blade is tensioned (no
>| glue in the joint, obviously) The second consideration is a matter
>
>The loose M&T approach is a good one. I don't think the dowels are
>needed - and suspect that the saw might be stronger without drilling
>for the dowel. The saw should be easy to assemble on a flat surface
>and, once assembled and tensioned, doesn't need dowels to stay
>together. I think you'll do better by supporting the crosspiece on the
>shoulders of the tenon than on a dowel or pin through the tenon.

Okay- sounds like dowels don't matter much for this one. I sort of
thought they wouldn't, but I figured I'd float the trial balloon.

>| of basic design- what I've used in the past is the standard metal
>| bow saw, but I've seen that the older saws have a frame that
>| extends below the blade on one side. Generally, I'm using the saw
>| on logs that are laying on or near the ground, so I'm afraid it
>| could get in the way, but if there is a compelling reason to keep
>| that extended frame, I'm sure I can work with it (my guess is it
>| helps to keep the blade plumb, but I couldn't say for sure) The
>| third is whether it's useful to leave a set of handles on the top
>| of the saw above the tensioning rod, or if that is simply too high
>| and unsteady when you use it. Weight isn't much of an issue, just
>| performance.
>
>I don't think I'd bother with handle below the blade. I'd guess that
>it might make starting a cut somewhat easier with really agressive
>blades; but if it gets in the way, I'd omit it.

Got ya. Never had a problem starting cuts with the other saw, and
this is the same blade, so I'll nix it. Just didn't want to skip
something that was there for a reason I didn't understand, and regret
it later.

>Be nice to yourself and the saw - roll the log onto something that
>holds it off the ground for sawing. There isn't any part of a saw that
>likes dirt and gravel. Even a foot-long piece of 4x4 can save a lot of
>wear and tear.

Only problem with this is application- The wood I generally collect is
blown down in storms, not logged, so it's often still attached to the
stump by a sizable bit of sapwood and bark. Sometimes it can be
chopped free with the axe, but sometimes it's too *bouncy* and the saw
just works better. Once it's home, then I use something to get it up
off the floor- it's just not always very easy in the field.

>Weight can have a substantial effect on the /sawyer/, which will
>affect performance.

I suppose- but I'm an awfully big guy who does a lot of manual work.
What's light for me may be heavy for others.

>| So, can anyone spot any holes in my plan that I may have missed?
>| I'd hate to use the last of my rock maple, and then have to smack
>| myself upside the head because I forgot something really important.
>| I can always try again, but it's nice to do it right the first
>| time. I've also got a good plank of 4/4 ash that I could use, if
>| it's a better wood for the job (It has more spring than maple,
>| IIRC.)
>
>Unless you're trying for a masterpiece on the first try, build it out
>of whatever you think'll hold up decently - then you can feel more
>free to rebuild individual parts for greater ease of use, comfort,
>etc. I built my first from pine and ended up doing a fair amount of
>sanding to make the handle comfortable.

I don't know about a masterpiece- but I'd like it to look like I cared
when I made it!

>| To try to anticipate the inevitable requests for more info, the saw
>| will be for cross-cutting logs for turning blanks because I don't
>| have a chainsaw and can't afford one right now (at least, not one
>| worth having). I'm making it, and not buying it because I want a
>
>While there's a certain amount of satisfaction to be had from making
>the saw and using it to cut blanks for turning, don't overlook the
>possibility of renting a chain saw so that you'll have time and energy
>left over for turning. :-)

Point taken- I generally harvest wood on weekends, and turn after work
during the week, so they don't interfere with one another *too* much.

>| If it works out well, I'm considering a frame saw for resawing short
>| planks out of some of the trunks I come across (hard to find spalted
>| wood at the lumber supplier, after all) so any good links to nice
>| rip blades for a hand saw would also be appreciated!
>
>Interesting! Don't forget to post photos to ABPW...

I won't!

Prometheus (in [email protected]) said:

| If anyone would like a detailed description or some kind of plan,
let
| me know and I'll post those instead.

Both? (Please.)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Prometheus <[email protected]> writes:

> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:46:48 +0100, Andy Dingley
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:53:07 -0500, Prometheus <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>my inclination is to use a loose mortise and tenon
>>>joint with a wooden dowel to keep it from falling apart when changing
>>>the blade.
>>
>>Just make a lose mortice and tenon. Needing to be laid flat when you

On my old Ulmia frame saws the loose tenon is just a small piece of
shhet metal, the mortice was obviously made by a very thin kerf
circular saw blade.

[...]

> I actually grabbed a set of 1/4" bolts for securing the blade- the bit
> that broke on the steel one I had was the rivet that held the blade,
> so it seemed sort of safer to bolt that blade on. Bad idea, or is it
> just less convienient than the pegs?

Look on http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.htm at the last Item on the
page, there is a saw blade holder for frame saws. BTW: The Japanese
rip cut blade has too fine teeth for resawing anything big, been
there, done that...


[...]

>>String is important. It needs to have some stretch to it, so old cotton
>>string is fine, modern ultra-strong non-stretch isn't. There's always
>>some flex in the frame and you want a string that is stretched with some
>>strain in it, not one that goes slack as soon as the ends move in a bit.
>
> As noted in the original post, I was looking at using a piece of
> threaded rod, and adjusting the tension with a nut. Is there some

Threaded rod also has no "stretch".
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23