Joining two boards

GarageWoodworks <.@.> wrote:
>>> Very helpful Leon. Geesh :^(
>>
>> I've done it several times with a TS too; all it takes is patience
>> and a fine blade plus a spreader. One still sits in my living room;
>> nary a crack or space to be seen anywhere, lo these past couple
>> decades.
>
> Of course it can be done, but do you think if he could do it with his
> TS he would be asking the question to begin with?

Rather than second-guessing him, I tried to relate that a TS is a usable
tool and if that's all that's available, as it was when I used that
method, it can be made to work.
It's called reinforcing a previous comment.

He's free to consider it, or not. What compels you to second-guess his
needs?

"SBH" wrote:

> I meant the bonding of two
> boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".


What will be the size of the finished board?

Lew

"Buck Turgidson" wrote:

> Please excuse my ignorance. What is a "whiteboard"?

AKA: Mystery wood
AKA: Low quality. Cheap but not necessarily low cost.

Lew

Leon wrote:
> "Buck Turgidson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>> I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>>> whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may
>>> purchase one some day but for now, have never needed to use one
>>> and also waiting for the finances to straighten up a bit more
>>> before I do. Therefore, I was wondering if there is another
>>> option to use for joining these boards other than
>>> borrowing/renting a joiner?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Please excuse my ignorance. What is a "whiteboard"? To me, a
>> whiteboard is what the high $ consultants use to explain why they
>> cost so much.
>
> LOL, Its that white wood that the borg sells. It is no particular
> species but rather a possibility of being White Pine, Spruce, and
> or another wood that I cannot recall at the moment.

Fir. The "mix" around here is hemlock, spruce, fir. The heavy ones
are fir. No pine as "whitewood" but available as pine.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Twayne" <[email protected]> writes:
>Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:37:05 -0500, "SBH" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>>> whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may
>>> purchase one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and
>>> also waiting for the finances to straighten up a bit more before I
>>> do. Therefore, I was wondering if there is another option to use for
>>> joining these boards other than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any input.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Of course. You can use a (long) hand plane, tablesaw, or a router
>> table. None of these are as good nor fast as a jointer. Without a
>> jointer, my personal choice is a hand plane.
>
>There must be quite a knack to that. I tried it once though only with a
>12" plane, and though I got from one end to the other pretty well set,
>consistancy from one side of the board to the other was another thing.
> Or is it a case of the plane having to be wider than the board?

Nope. It's a case of practice makes perfect. A longer plane will
give a better reference surface, but any plane can be used to produce
a flat surface. Note that while one is hogging the surface down to
"close to flat", one typically works at an angle (30-40 degrees) to
the longitudinal dimension of the lumber, typically from both sides
until the surface is close to flat, then a smooth plan is used with
the grain (longitudinally) to remove the marks from the rough surface.

Then, using that surface as a reference, scribe a reference line on
all four sides, flip the board and repeat above procedure to the
scribed reference line.

Takes lots of practice, sharp irons and a well tuned plane.

scott

snip
"SBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> borrowing/renting a joiner?
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
Take a router with a straight bit and a straight edge. Clamp the straight
edge to one board so you are taking a very small cut off the side of the
board. Clamp the second board slightly less than the diameter of the bit.
Route both boards at the same time and the edges will be matching. Larry

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "SBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>>whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may purchase
>>one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and also waiting
>>for the finances to straighten up a bit more before I do. Therefore, I was
>>wondering if there is another option to use for joining these boards other
>>than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>>
>> Thanks for any input.
>>
>
> I use my TS all the time for that purpose.
>

Very helpful Leon. Geesh :^(

--
www.garagewoodworks.com

"SBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may purchase
>one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and also waiting for
>the finances to straighten up a bit more before I do. Therefore, I was
>wondering if there is another option to use for joining these boards other
>than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>
> Thanks for any input.
>

Attach a straight edge to the board being jointed and reference the base of
a hand held router off of it. Use a staight bit to trim a 1/16" off of the
board and you will have a clean edge ready for joining.

OR

Instead of referencing the router base off of the straight edge, use a
straight bit with a bearing (See Flush Trim Bits at Woodcraft).

--
www.garagewoodworks.com

> (Slaps forehead) Ok, I'm an idiot. My apologies for the improper wording,
> I
> assume. After reading the advice I realized what I had said and I didn't
> mean joining as in "planing" or "smoothing". I meant the bonding of two
> boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".
>
> Therefore, any help on this is appreciated.

You really don't need biscuits for strength (if that is indeed your
concern), but they do help with alignment.
If you decide to use biscuits and you own a router you can perform the same
operation using a router table and router.

You need the right bit:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20323

Adjust the height of the bit to 'roughly' the center of thickness. Mark
your biscuit location on the face of the board and move the board into the
cutter (carefully-NO fingers near the bit!). Right side of board touches
(facing router table - the side on the right) fence first and push the left
side into the fence making contact with the bit.

If you always keep the board flat on the router table, the slots should all
be aligned the same.

Good luck


>
>

> If you always keep the board flat on the router table, the slots should
> all be aligned the same.

I should add that if you don't get all of the slots in the same place
(center of thickness) you will end up throwing yourself out of alignment at
some locations (i.e. the two faces will not be consistently flush from end
to end). If this happens remove those troublesome biscuits and glue it up!

---
www.garagewoodworks.com

>> Very helpful Leon. Geesh :^(
>
> I've done it several times with a TS too; all it takes is patience and a
> fine blade plus a spreader. One still sits in my living room; nary a
> crack or space to be seen anywhere, lo these past couple decades.
>

Of course it can be done, but do you think if he could do it with his TS he
would be asking the question to begin with?


>
>

On Jan 8, 8:33 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SBH" wrote in message
> > I meant the bonding of two
> > boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".
>
> > Therefore, any help on this is appreciated.
>
> "end to end" ... a glued "scarf joint" is usually appropriate where strength
> of the join is a concern.

When I did mine I used a compound mite saw and set two angles (not
sure of the terminology) so that I "scarfed" on both planes then glued
up the matching ends. This helps make a joint that's difficult to see
or at least doesn't stand out and adds gluing surface - and, I assume,
strength.

One question, is te tool he (OP) referenced as a "Joiner" called a
"Jointer?"

On Jan 9, 7:04 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > Trouter bits that make a sort double tongue and groove for joining boards.

Hey, I bought a set (from MCLS) and have yet to do a project with
them. They eat a lot of material. But do incease the gluing surfaces
and lock the two boards nicely. There's a set with a "V-groove" mating
approach as well.

From my experiments, the setup is important on a long board. If there
is a warp, you want the bowed side down as you run it through the
shaper/router table so as to assure the distance from one surface to
the groove is as close to identical on both boards. A good "hold down"
jig - maybe those wheelie things - is called for if edging a long
board w/o a helper. They make nice cuts, On a "project" with good
wood, I might try two or three passes using my PC890 in the table -
but I've yet to try that.

(Slaps forehead) Ok, I'm an idiot. My apologies for the improper wording, I
assume. After reading the advice I realized what I had said and I didn't
mean joining as in "planing" or "smoothing". I meant the bonding of two
boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".

Therefore, any help on this is appreciated.

On Jan 8, 7:19 pm, "SBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> (Slaps forehead) Ok, I'm an idiot. My apologies for the improper wording, I
> assume. After reading the advice I realized what I had said and I didn't
> mean joining as in "planing" or "smoothing". I meant the bonding of two
> boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".
>
> Therefore, any help on this is appreciated.


So you aren't worried about getting the pieces to mate without a gap
-- either lucky with straight stock or you haven't looked.
Assuming you are lucky then I bet the resounding answer from the wreck
will be "uhhhh use glue". Seriously though, if you are joining long
long grain most any ww glue would be strong enough. End grain is a
different matter. Repeat the mantra: biscuits are alignment aids.

hex
-30-

"SBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may purchase
>one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and also waiting for
>the finances to straighten up a bit more before I do. Therefore, I was
>wondering if there is another option to use for joining these boards other
>than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>
> Thanks for any input.
>

I use my TS all the time for that purpose.

"GarageWoodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> (Slaps forehead) Ok, I'm an idiot. My apologies for the improper wording,
>> I
>> assume. After reading the advice I realized what I had said and I didn't
>> mean joining as in "planing" or "smoothing". I meant the bonding of two
>> boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".
>>
>> Therefore, any help on this is appreciated.
>
> You really don't need biscuits for strength (if that is indeed your
> concern), but they do help with alignment.
> If you decide to use biscuits and you own a router you can perform the
> same operation using a router table and router.
>
> You need the right bit:
> http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20323
>
> Adjust the height of the bit to 'roughly' the center of thickness. Mark
> your biscuit location on the face of the board and move the board into the
> cutter (carefully-NO fingers near the bit!). Right side of board touches
> (facing router table - the side on the right) fence first and push the
> left side into the fence making contact with the bit.
>
> If you always keep the board flat on the router table, the slots should
> all be aligned the same.
>
> Good luck
>
I like it. Thank you

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> That reminds me - - - - I've seen the router bits that make a
> sort double tongue and groove for joining boards. How are they for
> doing the ends? Lap joints would give more surface, but would
> these be OK for a lightly stressed place, such as the middle boards
> of a four board wide panel?

For that, you need nothing. The adjacent boards hold things together
quite nicely.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

>I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may purchase
>one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and also waiting for
>the finances to straighten up a bit more before I do. Therefore, I was
>wondering if there is another option to use for joining these boards other
>than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>


Please excuse my ignorance. What is a "whiteboard"? To me, a whiteboard is
what the high $ consultants use to explain why they cost so much.

Is it another name for pine?

"hex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:88efd842-3bab-4369-9a65-67b0b04c46cc@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com..
>
>
> So you aren't worried about getting the pieces to mate without a gap
> -- either lucky with straight stock or you haven't looked.
> Assuming you are lucky then I bet the resounding answer from the wreck
> will be "uhhhh use glue". Seriously though, if you are joining long
> long grain most any ww glue would be strong enough. End grain is a
> different matter. Repeat the mantra: biscuits are alignment aids.

Of course I want the sides to mate without a gap, but I've already received
good advice about joining the boards earlier..LOL. Therefore, that's no
longer a concern.

Thanks for the advice.

Hoosierpopi <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 8, 8:33 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "SBH" wrote in message
>>> I meant the bonding of two
>>> boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".
>>
>>> Therefore, any help on this is appreciated.
>>
>> "end to end" ... a glued "scarf joint" is usually appropriate where
>> strength of the join is a concern.
>
> When I did mine I used a compound mite saw and set two angles (not
> sure of the terminology) so that I "scarfed" on both planes then glued
> up the matching ends. This helps make a joint that's difficult to see
> or at least doesn't stand out and adds gluing surface - and, I assume,
> strength.


How the heck would you clamp up something like that while the glue sets?
Sounds like a nightmare.

The maximum surface area increase you could get would be 1.414 of the
original dimension if the angle were 45 degrees.

SBH wrote:
> I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
> whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may purchase one
> some day but for now, have never needed to use one and also waiting for the
> finances to straighten up a bit more before I do. Therefore, I was wondering
> if there is another option to use for joining these boards other than
> borrowing/renting a joiner?

The traditional way is a hand plane...

--

GarageWoodworks <.@.> wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "SBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>>> whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may
>>> purchase one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and
>>> also waiting for the finances to straighten up a bit more before I
>>> do. Therefore, I was wondering if there is another option to use
>>> for joining these boards other than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any input.
>>>
>>
>> I use my TS all the time for that purpose.
>>
>
> Very helpful Leon. Geesh :^(

I've done it several times with a TS too; all it takes is patience and a
fine blade plus a spreader. One still sits in my living room; nary a
crack or space to be seen anywhere, lo these past couple decades.

"GarageWoodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "SBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>>>whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may purchase
>>>one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and also waiting
>>>for the finances to straighten up a bit more before I do. Therefore, I
>>>was wondering if there is another option to use for joining these boards
>>>other than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any input.
>>>
>>
>> I use my TS all the time for that purpose.
>>
>
> Very helpful Leon. Geesh :^(


In all seriousness, I use my TS and Rip fence to straighten boards all the
time. If it is a long board I use a strait edge jig along the fence.

"Buck Turgidson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
> >whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may purchase
> >one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and also waiting
> >for the finances to straighten up a bit more before I do. Therefore, I
> >was wondering if there is another option to use for joining these boards
> >other than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>>
>
>
> Please excuse my ignorance. What is a "whiteboard"? To me, a whiteboard
> is what the high $ consultants use to explain why they cost so much.

LOL, Its that white wood that the borg sells. It is no particular species
but rather a possibility of being White Pine, Spruce, and or another wood
that I cannot recall at the moment.


> Is it another name for pine?

Sometimes it is, sometime is is not.


>

"Gordon Shumway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you are planning on gluing the two boards end grain to end grain
> this would be an excellent application for a half lap joint.
>
> This can easily be done with a back saw and a chisel.
>
> The other posts about a method using a router or a table saw would
> work fine for a non-end grain butt joint.
>
> G.S.


That reminds me - - - - I've seen the router bits that make a sort double
tongue and groove for joining boards. How are they for doing the ends? Lap
joints would give more surface, but would these be OK for a lightly stressed
place, such as the middle boards of a four board wide panel?

Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:37:05 -0500, "SBH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>> whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may
>> purchase one some day but for now, have never needed to use one and
>> also waiting for the finances to straighten up a bit more before I
>> do. Therefore, I was wondering if there is another option to use for
>> joining these boards other than borrowing/renting a joiner?
>>
>> Thanks for any input.
>>
>
>
> Of course. You can use a (long) hand plane, tablesaw, or a router
> table. None of these are as good nor fast as a jointer. Without a
> jointer, my personal choice is a hand plane.

There must be quite a knack to that. I tried it once though only with a
12" plane, and though I got from one end to the other pretty well set,
consistancy from one side of the board to the other was another thing.
Or is it a case of the plane having to be wider than the board?

Regards,

Twayne

"SBH" wrote in message

> I meant the bonding of two
> boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".
>
> Therefore, any help on this is appreciated.

"end to end" ... a glued "scarf joint" is usually appropriate where strength
of the join is a concern. Or, depending upon the project, a "butt joint" of
some type may be sufficient, as you usually see in applications like
flooring, or siding.

"side to side", which reduces, practically, to "long grain to long grain" as
in panel glue-ups like table tops ... nothing but glue, and sufficient and
artful clamping, is necessary.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

If you are planning on gluing the two boards end grain to end grain
this would be an excellent application for a half lap joint.

This can easily be done with a back saw and a chisel.

The other posts about a method using a router or a table saw would
work fine for a non-end grain butt joint.

G.S.


On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:19:33 -0500, "SBH" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>(Slaps forehead) Ok, I'm an idiot. My apologies for the improper wording, I
>assume. After reading the advice I realized what I had said and I didn't
>mean joining as in "planing" or "smoothing". I meant the bonding of two
>boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".
>
>Therefore, any help on this is appreciated.
>

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:37:05 -0500, "SBH" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I will be doing a project which will require me to join two 1 x 8
>whiteboards for a wider board but I do not have a joiner. I may purchase one
>some day but for now, have never needed to use one and also waiting for the
>finances to straighten up a bit more before I do. Therefore, I was wondering
>if there is another option to use for joining these boards other than
>borrowing/renting a joiner?
>
>Thanks for any input.
>


Of course. You can use a (long) hand plane, tablesaw, or a router
table. None of these are as good nor fast as a jointer. Without a
jointer, my personal choice is a hand plane.

"GarageWoodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>> Very helpful Leon. Geesh :^(
>>
>> I've done it several times with a TS too; all it takes is patience and a
>> fine blade plus a spreader. One still sits in my living room; nary a
>> crack or space to be seen anywhere, lo these past couple decades.
>>
>
> Of course it can be done, but do you think if he could do it with his TS
> he would be asking the question to begin with?


There are a lot of things that can be done with a TS that many people don't
know about, especially beginners.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "SBH" wrote:
>
>> I meant the bonding of two
>> boards end to end or side to side using a "biscuit jointer".
>
>
> What will be the size of the finished board?
>
> Lew
>
13 3/4"