BA

Bay Area Dave

21/11/2003 10:26 PM

Getting my Neander legs...

Got the smoother this morning. Polished the back and honed the bevel a
bit and proceeded to try it out. Then I noticed a bit of embedded (very
tiny speck) of metal at the end of a piece I was planing so pulled the
blade and found a bunch of small nicks. Got out the Veritas honing
guide and reground the blade and got back to work with it. I got those
full width wispy shavings Chuck rhapsodized about! I couldn't stop. I
tried some poplar, oak, fir, cherry. The cherry is a bear! The full
width shavings from oak show why it's useful to use a pore filler for a
smooth finish. The shavings are FULL of large holes. The poplar
shavings are like paper. The cherry is another story... <g>

Thanks to all who guided me towards a satisfying and useful purchase.
I'm indebted to all you for sharing your ideas with me.

Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
know what I'm looking for. When I use the thickness planer, I know
about the cathedrals, esp. in oak, but I can't "read" the maple like I
can oak. All I can do for now is try it one way and if there is tarot,
then of course I plane in the other direction.

dave


This topic has 18 replies

Sd

Silvan

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

24/11/2003 12:41 AM

Bob N wrote:

> the plane skewed a bit, it cut smoothly and effortlessly, with no tearout.
> The problem is now I'm analyzing how to take a second mortgage to buy a
> few L-N planes...

I can imagine. I looked at their site, and once I saw the price page I
closed my browser. No use even dreaming about those.

These things sure get expensive. I just looked through my list of Planes I
Really Need(tm), and came to almost $1,000 if I buy them all new, even
staying well away from the likes of L-N. It's getting harder to convince
SWMBO that my doing this stuff by hand is going to save money. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

JG

"Jeff Gorman"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

23/11/2003 7:39 AM


"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote

: Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
: for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
: know what I'm looking for.

Please look at my web site - 'Planing Notes' - 'Grain'.

In theory at least, the shape of the vessels can indicate the lie of the
fibres.

Jeff G

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Email address is username@ISP
username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
Website www.amgron.clara.net




d

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

22/11/2003 9:19 PM

Silvan wrote:
> I have some "flamey" maple... Hmmm... How to describe this... I think
> it's what you call "flame." There are concentric "pointy" sort of wavy
> figures that look sort of like flames. Anyway, the edges of this board
> look quite strikingly different from the faces, with what looks vaguely
> like birdseye.
> What it boils down to is that I can't make heads or tails of which way to
> plane this from looking at the edge, which looks like wood dotted with
> freckles as much as anything else. Experience seems to be plane the flames
> from the pointy side toward the flaring side, but I'm not getting a super
> smooth surface either way I go.

Try dragging the edge of your thumbnail both directions and see which
way it catches more. It'll emulate the action of a plane and give you a
clue with out messing up the wood.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

kK

[email protected] (Ken Muldrew)

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

21/11/2003 11:17 PM

Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
>for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
>know what I'm looking for.

Look on the edge and plane in the direction of the rising grain.

Ken Muldrew
[email protected]
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

22/11/2003 2:28 AM

I STILL don't know what was in the wood, it was a very small piece of
metal that I didn't see until I'd run the plane over it a few times. No
harm done; the nicks were so small that my DMT Medium removed them.

Are we still telling corny jokes, eh??

dave

Wood Butcher wrote:

> What's with the metal?
> Weren't you going to try corn?
>
> Art
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Got the smoother this morning. Polished the back and honed the bevel a
>>bit and proceeded to try it out. Then I noticed a bit of embedded (very
>>tiny speck) of metal at the end of a piece . . .
>
>
>

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

22/11/2003 2:32 AM

thanks to all. Seems like there is no argument amongst everyone that if
I look at the EDGE, I plane TOWARDS the rising grain, and AWAY from
FALLING grain. My public compliments to Scott for a very informative
addition to our "knowledge base" for us planer newbies.

Thank you, gentlemen!

Tomorrow I'll check out that maple board I was struggling with and see
if I can tame it.

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote:

> Got the smoother this morning. Polished the back and honed the bevel a
> bit and proceeded to try it out. Then I noticed a bit of embedded (very
> tiny speck) of metal at the end of a piece I was planing so pulled the
> blade and found a bunch of small nicks. Got out the Veritas honing
> guide and reground the blade and got back to work with it. I got those
> full width wispy shavings Chuck rhapsodized about! I couldn't stop. I
> tried some poplar, oak, fir, cherry. The cherry is a bear! The full
> width shavings from oak show why it's useful to use a pore filler for a
> smooth finish. The shavings are FULL of large holes. The poplar
> shavings are like paper. The cherry is another story... <g>
>
> Thanks to all who guided me towards a satisfying and useful purchase.
> I'm indebted to all you for sharing your ideas with me.
>
> Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
> for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
> know what I'm looking for. When I use the thickness planer, I know
> about the cathedrals, esp. in oak, but I can't "read" the maple like I
> can oak. All I can do for now is try it one way and if there is tarot,
> then of course I plane in the other direction.
>
> dave
>

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

22/11/2003 2:22 AM

THANK YOU, Scott!

Very clear explanation. I'll take a closer look at that piece of maple
in the morning see if I can spot the pith side, etc. cool.

dave

Scott Cramer wrote:

> On 21 Nov 2003, Ken Muldrew spake unto rec.woodworking:
>
>
>>Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
>>>for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
>>>know what I'm looking for.
>>
>>Look on the edge and plane in the direction of the rising grain.
>
>
> All other things being equal, this rule of thumb applies:
>
> Pith side, plane with the points.
>
> In other words, if the growth rings on the end of your board are more
> or less concave, you are planing the side of the board that was closer to
> the middle of the tree - the pith side. The grain on the face will show
> some "points", more or less, and you plane in the direction they are
> pointing.
>
> On the bark side, with the rings convex at the ends, you do the
> opposite - plane against the points.
>
> Some boards will change direction unexpectedly, and some won't be
> nice no matter what you do. Holding the plane at an to the direction you
> are pushing can sometimes help.
>
> Scott

Lr

"Leon"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

22/11/2003 4:41 AM

I deal mostly with more boring woods. But for some woods like Birds Eye
Maple and Lace it is advised to wet the surface with water before running
through a power planer to minimize tear out.


BN

"Bob N"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

23/11/2003 9:33 PM

> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:39:19 -0500, Silvan
>
> I think what you have is fiddleback maple. Beautiful stuff, but a
> bitch to plane, almost impossible to avoid tear-out. Time to get the
> belt sander and scraper out.
>

At a recent demo at the local Woodcraft store, the rep from Lie-Nielsen had a nice flame
maple board as a sample for us to try out their planes. With a VERY light cut and holding
the plane skewed a bit, it cut smoothly and effortlessly, with no tearout. The problem is
now I'm analyzing how to take a second mortgage to buy a few L-N planes...

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

21/11/2003 10:29 PM

:) spell checker ran amuck: should be "tear out".

Bay Area Dave wrote:
snip

> can oak. All I can do for now is try it one way and if there is tarot,

SC

Scott Cramer

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

21/11/2003 11:45 PM

On 21 Nov 2003, Ken Muldrew spake unto rec.woodworking:

> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
>>for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
>>know what I'm looking for.
>
> Look on the edge and plane in the direction of the rising grain.

All other things being equal, this rule of thumb applies:

Pith side, plane with the points.

In other words, if the growth rings on the end of your board are more
or less concave, you are planing the side of the board that was closer to
the middle of the tree - the pith side. The grain on the face will show
some "points", more or less, and you plane in the direction they are
pointing.

On the bark side, with the rings convex at the ends, you do the
opposite - plane against the points.

Some boards will change direction unexpectedly, and some won't be
nice no matter what you do. Holding the plane at an to the direction you
are pushing can sometimes help.

Scott

SC

Scott Cramer

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

21/11/2003 11:48 PM

On 21 Nov 2003, Scott Cramer spake unto rec.woodworking:

> On 21 Nov 2003, Ken Muldrew spake unto rec.woodworking:
>
>> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other
>>>wood for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out?
>>>I don't know what I'm looking for.
>>
>> Look on the edge and plane in the direction of the rising grain.
>
> All other things being equal, this rule of thumb applies:
>
> Pith side, plane with the points.
>
> In other words, if the growth rings on the end of your board
> are more
> or less concave, you are planing the side of the board that was closer
> to the middle of the tree - the pith side. The grain on the face will
> show some "points", more or less, and you plane in the direction they
> are pointing.
>
> On the bark side, with the rings convex at the ends, you do
> the
> opposite - plane against the points.
>
> Some boards will change direction unexpectedly, and some
> won't be
> nice no matter what you do. Holding the plane at an to the direction
> you are pushing can sometimes help.

Oh god, I'm doing a Dave -

Make that "at an angle to the direction"

WB

"Wood Butcher"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

22/11/2003 1:03 AM

What's with the metal?
Weren't you going to try corn?

Art

"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Got the smoother this morning. Polished the back and honed the bevel a
> bit and proceeded to try it out. Then I noticed a bit of embedded (very
> tiny speck) of metal at the end of a piece . . .

Lr

"Leon"

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

21/11/2003 11:37 PM



"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip


> Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
> for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
> know what I'm looking for. When I use the thickness planer, I know
> about the cathedrals, esp. in oak, but I can't "read" the maple like I
> can oak. All I can do for now is try it one way and if there is tarot,
> then of course I plane in the other direction.
>
> dave
>

Take a look of the edge of the board and see which direction the grain goes
there. Plane in the direction from the lower to the higher grain.


TW

Tom Watson

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

21/11/2003 7:24 PM

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:26:21 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:


>Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
>for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
>know what I'm looking for. When I use the thickness planer, I know
>about the cathedrals, esp. in oak, but I can't "read" the maple like I
>can oak. All I can do for now is try it one way and if there is tarot,
>then of course I plane in the other direction.

Yer a man who lives close to the water
And perhaps just like me you've a daughter
Who rides on the waves and makes them her slaves
Neither giving nor taking no quarter

But if you will notice your bright little lotus
Does flops when she goes 'gainst the wave
And thus it is so when a wooddorker goes
'Gainst the grain Ole Bay Area Dave

Now if you imagine yer wood has a pattern
That looks on its edge like a wave
Yer plane must go by from the low to the high
If from nicks yer poor wood you would save

I hope that my patter will save you from chatter
From nicks and from everything sad
I welcome you well to our neander hell
Oh man we doth sometimes call BAD




Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Sd

Silvan

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

21/11/2003 9:39 PM

Leon wrote:

> Take a look of the edge of the board and see which direction the grain
> goes
> there. Plane in the direction from the lower to the higher grain.

That usually works, but what do you do when you can't tell?

I have some "flamey" maple... Hmmm... How to describe this... I think
it's what you call "flame." There are concentric "pointy" sort of wavy
figures that look sort of like flames. Anyway, the edges of this board
look quite strikingly different from the faces, with what looks vaguely
like birdseye.

What it boils down to is that I can't make heads or tails of which way to
plane this from looking at the edge, which looks like wood dotted with
freckles as much as anything else. Experience seems to be plane the flames
from the pointy side toward the flaring side, but I'm not getting a super
smooth surface either way I go.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

LZ

Luigi Zanasi

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

22/11/2003 11:45 PM

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:39:19 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> scribbled

>Leon wrote:
>
>> Take a look of the edge of the board and see which direction the grain
>> goes
>> there. Plane in the direction from the lower to the higher grain.
>
>That usually works, but what do you do when you can't tell?
>
>I have some "flamey" maple... Hmmm... How to describe this... I think
>it's what you call "flame." There are concentric "pointy" sort of wavy
>figures that look sort of like flames. Anyway, the edges of this board
>look quite strikingly different from the faces, with what looks vaguely
>like birdseye.
>
>What it boils down to is that I can't make heads or tails of which way to
>plane this from looking at the edge, which looks like wood dotted with
>freckles as much as anything else. Experience seems to be plane the flames
>from the pointy side toward the flaring side, but I'm not getting a super
>smooth surface either way I go.

I think what you have is fiddleback maple. Beautiful stuff, but a
bitch to plane, almost impossible to avoid tear-out. Time to get the
belt sander and scraper out.

Doug Stowe has a beautiful fiddleback maple jewellery box in one of
his books, and he recommends surfacing it with a thickness sander. I
am currently making a version of it with a flame birch board I bought
one time, having been told it was red oak. But no thickness sander.

Same problem, but not as bad, with the birch. A bit of tear-out
despite using brand new blades on the planer. But nothing that can't
be hidden or scraped off.

BTW, I did get the planer snipe issue solved as a by-product of
planing short pieces. I built a sled (ackshally just a 12"X48" piece
of MDO) with two 1" thick pieces of spruce screwed to the full length
of the long edges of the ply and a stop about 6" in from the end. The
short pieces are carpet-taped to the sled, resting against the stop.
The spruce edges get planed along with the birch, and they get the
snipe.
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address

BA

Bay Area Dave

in reply to Bay Area Dave on 21/11/2003 10:26 PM

22/11/2003 2:25 AM

:) My, you do have a way with words. Thanks, Tom

dave

Tom Watson wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:26:21 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Question: Is there a way to read the grain of maple (or any other wood
>>for that matter) BEFORE planing, to prevent (reduce) tear out? I don't
>>know what I'm looking for. When I use the thickness planer, I know
>>about the cathedrals, esp. in oak, but I can't "read" the maple like I
>>can oak. All I can do for now is try it one way and if there is tarot,
>>then of course I plane in the other direction.
>
>
> Yer a man who lives close to the water
> And perhaps just like me you've a daughter
> Who rides on the waves and makes them her slaves
> Neither giving nor taking no quarter
>
> But if you will notice your bright little lotus
> Does flops when she goes 'gainst the wave
> And thus it is so when a wooddorker goes
> 'Gainst the grain Ole Bay Area Dave
>
> Now if you imagine yer wood has a pattern
> That looks on its edge like a wave
> Yer plane must go by from the low to the high
> If from nicks yer poor wood you would save
>
> I hope that my patter will save you from chatter
> From nicks and from everything sad
> I welcome you well to our neander hell
> Oh man we doth sometimes call BAD
>
>
>
>
> Regards, Tom
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
> Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
> http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson


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