Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand and
it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out wobble -
arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much? The
blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
accuracy).
The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly "wavy"
instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed to
the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my back
re-leveling it.
Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Tim
"Ellestad" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
>
> The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand and
> it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out wobble -
> arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much? The
> blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> accuracy).
>
> The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
"wavy"
> instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
to
> the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
back
> re-leveling it.
>
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>
> Tim
>
>
Any burning? It sounds like a hot blade, causes that come to mind are dull
and/or no set.
Using a featherboard??? If not, it is possible that using one could
nelp. I usually use a combo, one featherboard holding the work to the
fence, and a couple holding the work down to the table
John
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:21 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
>
>The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand and
>it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out wobble -
>arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much? The
>blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
>exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
>accuracy).
>
>The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly "wavy"
>instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
>straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed to
>the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my back
>re-leveling it.
>
>Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>
>Tim
>
"Ellestad" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
>
> The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand and
> it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out wobble -
> arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
Possibly so..if that run out is at the arbor. At the teeth on the blade,
no.
> blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> accuracy).
>
> The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
"wavy"
> instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
to
> the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
back
> re-leveling it.
Could you have warped the table surface while putting the saw on that mobile
base?
Is that a thin kerf blade by any chance?
How did you do that? You didn't just try to pick it up without a lever or a
jack did you? I leveled my 400 lb. Supersaw while I had 3 herniated disks,
but I used six foot long boards as levers. It was a stupid thing to do
anyway, but it didn't hurt much.
Bob
"Ellestad" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
back
> re-leveling it.
I had a wandering cut problem with a hand-held circular saw while cutting
the bottom of door blanks. It was a little used, carbide tipped blade.
Checked all the alignments and was left scratching my head until I finally
took off the blade and set it on a flat surface, first on one side then on
the other. A slight but noticeable dishing of the blade disk was apparent.
This was an inexpensive blade (B&D Piranah) without thermal expansion slots.
I suspect that the blade had overheated in the thick door blanks and warped.
Does the blade in your table saw have thermal expansion slots? Has it
possible warped?
David Merrill
"Bridger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:43:01 -0600, John Crea <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Using a featherboard??? If not, it is possible that using one could
> >nelp. I usually use a combo, one featherboard holding the work to the
> >fence, and a couple holding the work down to the table
> >
> >John
>
>
>
> I'd like to see how you position a featherboard for a crosscut.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:21 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard
maple?
> >>
> >>The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand
and
> >>it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out
wobble -
> >>arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
The
> >>blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> >>exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> >>accuracy).
> >>
> >>The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
"wavy"
> >>instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> >>straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
to
> >>the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
back
> >>re-leveling it.
> >>
> >>Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >>
> >>Tim
> >>
>
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:43:01 -0600, John Crea <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Using a featherboard??? If not, it is possible that using one could
>nelp. I usually use a combo, one featherboard holding the work to the
>fence, and a couple holding the work down to the table
>
>John
I'd like to see how you position a featherboard for a crosscut.....
>
>On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:21 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
>>
>>The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand and
>>it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out wobble -
>>arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much? The
>>blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
>>exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
>>accuracy).
>>
>>The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly "wavy"
>>instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
>>straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed to
>>the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my back
>>re-leveling it.
>>
>>Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>>
>>Tim
>>
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:21 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
>
>The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand and
>it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out wobble -
>arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much? The
>blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
>exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
>accuracy).
>
>The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly "wavy"
>instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
>straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed to
>the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my back
>re-leveling it.
>
>Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>
>Tim
>
How close to end of piece are you cross- cutting. This problem
occasionally pops up if you try to take thin cuts off the end.
Caused(I assume) by the fact that blade has more room to vibrate since
it's less constrained on the thin end.
Hi John -
Thanks for your reply.
This is a cross-cut blade and I was using a heavy and well-proven miter
gauge with the stock fixed to the fence.
"John Crea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Using a featherboard??? If not, it is possible that using one could
> nelp. I usually use a combo, one featherboard holding the work to the
> fence, and a couple holding the work down to the table
>
> John
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:21 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
> >
> >The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand
and
> >it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out
wobble -
> >arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
The
> >blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> >exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> >accuracy).
> >
> >The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
"wavy"
> >instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> >straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
to
> >the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
back
> >re-leveling it.
> >
> >Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >
> >Tim
> >
>
Hi Leon -
Thanks for your response.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ellestad" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard
maple?
> >
> > The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand
and
> > it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out
wobble -
> > arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
>
> Possibly so..if that run out is at the arbor. At the teeth on the blade,
> no.
Yes, at the tooth point.
>
> > blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> > exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> > accuracy).
> >
> > The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
> "wavy"
> > instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> > straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
> to
> > the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
> back
> > re-leveling it.
>
> Could you have warped the table surface while putting the saw on that
mobile
> base?
The surface looks good to a 24 inch blade that has proven very good.
> Is that a thin kerf blade by any chance?
No, old-time .125" or there-abouts.
Maybe I've messed up my history (I'm getting gray) and I didn't actually do
anything critical to prove that it was working good since it was sharpened.
Could this "wavy cut" be the result of a bad grind angle on the tooth face?
>
Tim
>
Thanks Rob -
I have blade stabilizers and I wasn't using them. I'll give it a shot.
Tim
"Rob V" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just an FYI - I get that "wavy" effect if I dont use a blade stablizer.
But
> I am using a thin kerf blade and I see that you are not.
>
> May be worth the $10.00 to give it a shot just to see.
>
>
> When you make the cut - actually look at the blade and go slow - see if
you
> see it flex at all.
>
>
>
> "Ellestad" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard
maple?
> >
> > The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand
and
> > it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out
wobble -
> > arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
The
> > blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> > exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> > accuracy).
> >
> > The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
> "wavy"
> > instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> > straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
> to
> > the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
> back
> > re-leveling it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
>
Thanks David -
I'll give it a look. The expansion slots might be suspect on this blade
because when I first got this blade (back in pre-history) it was a miserable
screamer. The guy who sharpened my blades made loose plugs for the expansion
holes (note- I said "holes") that worked well back then and silenced the
siren. Maybe they are now stuck and no longer allow the blade to vent.
Thanks for the idea.
Tim
"David Merrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VXVWb.166253$U%5.748524@attbi_s03...
> I had a wandering cut problem with a hand-held circular saw while cutting
> the bottom of door blanks. It was a little used, carbide tipped blade.
> Checked all the alignments and was left scratching my head until I finally
> took off the blade and set it on a flat surface, first on one side then on
> the other. A slight but noticeable dishing of the blade disk was
apparent.
> This was an inexpensive blade (B&D Piranah) without thermal expansion
slots.
> I suspect that the blade had overheated in the thick door blanks and
warped.
> Does the blade in your table saw have thermal expansion slots? Has it
> possible warped?
>
> David Merrill
>
>
> "Bridger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:43:01 -0600, John Crea <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Using a featherboard??? If not, it is possible that using one could
> > >nelp. I usually use a combo, one featherboard holding the work to the
> > >fence, and a couple holding the work down to the table
> > >
> > >John
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd like to see how you position a featherboard for a crosscut.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:21 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >>Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard
> maple?
> > >>
> > >>The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand
> and
> > >>it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out
> wobble -
> > >>arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
> The
> > >>blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on
the
> > >>exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> > >>accuracy).
> > >>
> > >>The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
> "wavy"
> > >>instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> > >>straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has
changed
> to
> > >>the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke
my
> back
> > >>re-leveling it.
> > >>
> > >>Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> > >>
> > >>Tim
> > >>
> >
>
>
Thanks Eric -
No burning, no burnishing. Just smooth and slightly "wavy".
This "wandering" gets going quickly, too, I might add. The try square looks
bad on a 3 inch cut.
Tim
"Eric Ryder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ellestad" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard
maple?
> >
> > The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand
and
> > it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out
wobble -
> > arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
The
> > blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> > exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> > accuracy).
> >
> > The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
> "wavy"
> > instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> > straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
> to
> > the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
> back
> > re-leveling it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
> Any burning? It sounds like a hot blade, causes that come to mind are
dull
> and/or no set.
>
>
Thanks jev -
My cut-offs were three inches. I have seen what you are describing when
triming off, say, a quarter inch or so.
I'm doing a blade comparison now.
Tim
"jev" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:21 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
> >
> >The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand
and
> >it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out
wobble -
> >arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
The
> >blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> >exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> >accuracy).
> >
> >The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
"wavy"
> >instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> >straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
to
> >the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
back
> >re-leveling it.
> >
> >Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >
> >Tim
> >
>
> How close to end of piece are you cross- cutting. This problem
> occasionally pops up if you try to take thin cuts off the end.
> Caused(I assume) by the fact that blade has more room to vibrate since
> it's less constrained on the thin end.
"Ellestad"
> Maybe I've messed up my history (I'm getting gray) and I didn't actually
do
> anything critical to prove that it was working good since it was
sharpened.
> Could this "wavy cut" be the result of a bad grind angle on the tooth
face?
So I just read this thread. Very interesting. I'm in the disk drive
industry and know quite a bit about plate vibration, but not as much about
woodworking.
If you are getting waves after sharpening, then I believe you have found
your problem - and it makes the most sense to me out of everything I just
read. What little I know about the actual sharpening process tells me that
the edges of your teeth may now resemble a roller coaster as you travel
around the circumference of the blade. That would set up some plate
vibration modes and bending.
Certainly you have another blade laying around you could swap out and test
this theory with. Preferably one that hasn't visited this particular
sharpener.
Let us know how it turns out.
- Nate
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:17:45 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Hi John -
>
>Thanks for your reply.
>
>This is a cross-cut blade and I was using a heavy and well-proven miter
>gauge with the stock fixed to the fence.
Then you're probably forcing it into the blade and
flexing the miter gauge. After making sure the miter
gauge is not sloppy in its fit to the saw top, try
a gentler, slower cutting motion. Since higher-tooth-
count blades have smaller gullets, give them more
time to clear their sawdust with a slower cut.
--
Impeach 'em ALL!
----------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
Just an FYI - I get that "wavy" effect if I dont use a blade stablizer. But
I am using a thin kerf blade and I see that you are not.
May be worth the $10.00 to give it a shot just to see.
When you make the cut - actually look at the blade and go slow - see if you
see it flex at all.
"Ellestad" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
>
> The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand and
> it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out wobble -
> arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much? The
> blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> accuracy).
>
> The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
"wavy"
> instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
to
> the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
back
> re-leveling it.
>
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>
> Tim
>
>
he's cross cutting, how you use a featherboard crosscutting?
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"John Crea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Using a featherboard??? If not, it is possible that using one could
> nelp. I usually use a combo, one featherboard holding the work to the
> fence, and a couple holding the work down to the table
>
> John
>
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:21 -0600, "Ellestad" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Why am I getting a "wandering" cut cross grain in dressed 4/4 hard maple?
> >
> >The saw is a sharp 10 inch 60T ATB carbide (I don't remember the brand
and
> >it has been lost to cleanings and sharpenings). The total run-out
wobble -
> >arbor, collars and blade - is just under +/- .0025". Is that too much?
The
> >blade is parallel to the slot to within about .001" fore and aft on the
> >exposed blade (I suspect that the slot isn't really cut to quite this
> >accuracy).
> >
> >The cuts are clean and smooth with no fringe but are ever so slightly
"wavy"
> >instead of a nice flat joint surface. This saw and blade has made nice
> >straight cuts since the blade was last sharpened and nothing has changed
to
> >the setup except that the saw was put on a roller base - but I broke my
back
> >re-leveling it.
> >
> >Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >
> >Tim
> >
>