My last bookcase got a little messy during gluing, and I had a heck of a
time sanding it out to take stain. I understand it is just a matter of
better technique, but I wonder if there is any reason not to stain before
assembly? That way a little loose glue won't matter much, and it is
probably easier anyhow. I am talking about the interior; the exterior will
have to be sanded after assembly, so it wouldn't make any sense to stain it
before hand.
Thanks.
On 8 Dec 2003 05:43:20 -0800, [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>> Conanski is just spoutin'.
>
> You say that like it's a bad thing.
<vbg>
>> Please note that he didn't say a word when I finished that last
>> wooddorking project, the poisonous bridge.
>
> Well, I just didn't know how to break it to you gently that there
>seemed to be one critical element missing in your design.
Had you seen my front yard yesterday, you'd have known why
that bridge is there. The missing element fell from the sky
all day and my moat filled up.
--
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven.
Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Sin-free Website Design
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 19:47:23 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Conan The Librarian wrote:
>
>> First of all, I wouldn't promise Lawwy anything. He promised us
>> that he would finish his spokeshave and bowsaur years ago, and we know
>> how that turned out.
>
>Yeah, but if I don't do what I said I would, he yells at me. Just look how
>freaked out he got when I told him I put poly all over a walnut/maple chess
>board.
Conanski is just spoutin'. I did finish the spokeshave, pics and all,
and told him that the bow saur would be done, er...some time this
decade. Go back and look at the posts if you don't believe me.
Please note that he didn't say a word when I finished that last
wooddorking project, the poisonous bridge.
>Hey, I didn't promise myself. I promised Larry. If I use stain, I just
>won't tell anybody on the Wreck about it. :)
I HEARD THAT! <whap whap whap>
>I have to confess that I'm thinking about building a curio out of poplar
>stained to resemble walnut. The real stuff is very much prettier, but
>poplar is soooooo much cheaper, and I need sooooooo much wood for this
>project. Sigh. Don't tell Larry I said that. I'm counting on you to keep
>my secret, Conan.
He'd better NOT tell me. You know how I get. ;)
-----------------------------------------------------------
--This post conscientiously crafted from 100% Recycled Pixels--
http://diversify.com Websites: PHP Programming, MySQL databases
=================================================================
Silvan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Conan The Librarian wrote:
>
> > First of all, I wouldn't promise Lawwy anything. He promised us
> > that he would finish his spokeshave and bowsaur years ago, and we know
> > how that turned out.
>
> Yeah, but if I don't do what I said I would, he yells at me. Just look how
> freaked out he got when I told him I put poly all over a walnut/maple chess
> board.
He gets freaked out whenever anyone *mentions* the word "poly".
Also, just for kicks, ask him for his recipe for RBS.
> > Secondly, I hate stain, but I've found that there are cases where I
> > have no choice. My main client (SWMBO) likes southwestern-style
> > furniture, and it has an "aged" look to it that almost mandates the use
>
> Gah. Not one of my favorite styles... I hope either you like the style
> better than I do, or your SWMBO really makes it worth your while to produce
> that stuff... ;)
The way I figure it is if I keep making things for her, then I can
keep buying new tools and wood. :-)
Also, I don't mind the style. It's not the
cheapo-nailed-together-out-of-barnwood stuff, but more of a colonial
look. (See: http://www.swt.edu/~cv01/swtable1.jpg for an example of
the oil finish, and http://www.swt.edu/~cv01/hboy3.gif for a lousy
picture of a highboy I made with a shellac finish.)
> [little snip of "wimminz are like that", 'cause I ain't going there :-) ]
>
> I have to confess that I'm thinking about building a curio out of poplar
> stained to resemble walnut. The real stuff is very much prettier, but
> poplar is soooooo much cheaper, and I need sooooooo much wood for this
> project. Sigh. Don't tell Larry I said that. I'm counting on you to keep
> my secret, Conan.
Your secret's safe with me. Ironically, besides my SW stuff, the
only other project I ever stained was a poplar earring/bracelet hanger
box that I used walnut stain on. I immediately regretted it, as it
doesn't look a bit like walnut. :-}
Chuck Vance
Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Conanski is just spoutin'.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
> I did finish the spokeshave, pics and all,
> and told him that the bow saur would be done, er...some time this
> decade. Go back and look at the posts if you don't believe me.
> Please note that he didn't say a word when I finished that last
> wooddorking project, the poisonous bridge.
Well, I just didn't know how to break it to you gently that there
seemed to be one critical element missing in your design.
Chuck Vance
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Silvan wrote:
>
> > I don't recommend it. I did that once, and it was a PITA trying to keep
> > dust/hand prints out of the slightly tacky stain until I could get
> > everything together and finished. I managed to get some glue onto the
> > stain too, and it was damn near impossible to do anything about it. That
> > piece still has some little patches of yellow residue in a couple of
> > crannies.
> >
> > Besides, anything that would screw up stain will screw up the top coat too,
> > so you really want to do a neat glue-up and take care of all the squooge
> > before you finish it.
>
> It's interesting to see how different folks perceptions are on some
> of these things. I *always* finish before glueup. IME, "squooge" is
> easier to get off of a finished surface than raw wood. (I use mostly
> shellac, but have found the same for other topcoats). I tape the inside
> of the joints with blue painters tape, protect the piece with softwood
> or cork pads on the clamps and have at it. When I'm done I just pull
> off the tape and there comes the squeezeout. Any leftover squeezeout
> pops off easily after it sets a bit.
>
> I've found it easier/quicker to finish your pieces when they are all
> laid flat, plus you don't have to worry about getting finish into tight
> corners, and you don't get drips and runs from finishing vertical
> surfaces.
>
>
> Chuck Vance
One other thing I forgot to mention in my post was that in addition to
applying the finish, I also make sure I put two coats of wax on after
the finish cures -- the wax is a bit of protection for the finish and
also assures that inadvertent drops of glue slide right off.
Conan The Librarian wrote:
> It's interesting to see how different folks perceptions are on some
> of these things. I *always* finish before glueup. IME, "squooge" is
> easier to get off of a finished surface than raw wood. (I use mostly
> shellac, but have found the same for other topcoats). I tape the inside
Hmmm... Was the OP talking about doing a complete finish of the parts? I
thought he was talking stain, glue, then finish.
The way you're doing it doesn't sound completely absurd to me. The piece I
was talking about was done as I just described. Stain, glue, then shellac.
It didn't work out very well. Maybe it would have been different if I had
top coated the pieces as well.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Conan The Librarian wrote:
>
> > It's interesting to see how different folks perceptions are on some
> > of these things. I *always* finish before glueup. IME, "squooge" is
> > easier to get off of a finished surface than raw wood. (I use mostly
> > shellac, but have found the same for other topcoats). I tape the inside
>
> Hmmm... Was the OP talking about doing a complete finish of the parts? I
> thought he was talking stain, glue, then finish.
I was, but maybe I will try putting poly on first also. I already stained,
and then got distracted. (my new router table top arrived, and it demanded
a base)
>
> The way you're doing it doesn't sound completely absurd to me. The piece
I
> was talking about was done as I just described. Stain, glue, then
shellac.
> It didn't work out very well. Maybe it would have been different if I had
> top coated the pieces as well.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
I hadn't heard of that before. With masking tape?
"PPH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I usually take a little time tape off the glue joints. It may take a
little
> longer but it usually saves a lot of time and frustration.
>
>
Silvan wrote:
> I don't recommend it. I did that once, and it was a PITA trying to keep
> dust/hand prints out of the slightly tacky stain until I could get
> everything together and finished. I managed to get some glue onto the
> stain too, and it was damn near impossible to do anything about it. That
> piece still has some little patches of yellow residue in a couple of
> crannies.
>
> Besides, anything that would screw up stain will screw up the top coat too,
> so you really want to do a neat glue-up and take care of all the squooge
> before you finish it.
It's interesting to see how different folks perceptions are on some
of these things. I *always* finish before glueup. IME, "squooge" is
easier to get off of a finished surface than raw wood. (I use mostly
shellac, but have found the same for other topcoats). I tape the inside
of the joints with blue painters tape, protect the piece with softwood
or cork pads on the clamps and have at it. When I'm done I just pull
off the tape and there comes the squeezeout. Any leftover squeezeout
pops off easily after it sets a bit.
I've found it easier/quicker to finish your pieces when they are all
laid flat, plus you don't have to worry about getting finish into tight
corners, and you don't get drips and runs from finishing vertical
surfaces.
Chuck Vance
Silvan wrote:
> Hmmm... Was the OP talking about doing a complete finish of the parts? I
> thought he was talking stain, glue, then finish.
>
> The way you're doing it doesn't sound completely absurd to me. The piece I
> was talking about was done as I just described. Stain, glue, then shellac.
> It didn't work out very well. Maybe it would have been different if I had
> top coated the pieces as well.
It wouldn't hurt to give it a try sometime. I don't usually stain
wood unless I'm trying to reproduce a particular color, but when I do
stain I still go ahead and put on the topcoat before glueup.
As Mark mentioned elsewhere in this thread, give the finish its
normal curing time before gluing it up (and apply wax if you want).
Chuck Vance
Silvan wrote:
> I promised Monsieur Jacques that I would never, ever use stain again, so I
> don't expect that to be a problem. I still had some projects in the
> pipeline when I finally came over to the light side of the force. :)
First of all, I wouldn't promise Lawwy anything. He promised us
that he would finish his spokeshave and bowsaur years ago, and we know
how that turned out.
Secondly, I hate stain, but I've found that there are cases where I
have no choice. My main client (SWMBO) likes southwestern-style
furniture, and it has an "aged" look to it that almost mandates the use
of some sort of stain. I tried coloring the wood with garnet shellac,
and while I liked the look, SWMBO thought it was too "bright". I tried
colored waxes and they looked too "dull".
Finally, I found a finishing program that worked to reproduce the
look she was after. It involved using Minwax "natural stain" (probably
nothing more than mineral spirits plus some additives) for the first
coat to help prevent blotching. That was followed by "plantation
walnut" wiping oil/varnish for a color base. After that, I used a
homebrew wiping varnish of turps, BLO and spar varnish with a touch of
artists oils for additional color.
It works and you can easily control the amount of sheen you get.
So, where was I? Oh yes ... don't promise yourself you'll never
stain wood if you ever make projects for anyone besides yourself. :-)
Chuck Vance
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> My last bookcase got a little messy during gluing, and I had a heck of a
> time sanding it out to take stain. I understand it is just a matter of
> better technique, but I wonder if there is any reason not to stain before
> assembly? That way a little loose glue won't matter much, and it is
> probably easier anyhow. I am talking about the interior; the exterior will
> have to be sanded after assembly, so it wouldn't make any sense to stain it
> before hand.
>
I like finishing before assembly, you could probably sand and finish
the exterior of your project as well if you are careful. Just make sure
to tape off or tape closed the joints and orifices you intend to glue.
After finishing, I keep all of my parts on cloth and between cloths, I
do the glue-ups on cloth and use cloth on the clamps to avoid marring
the finish or the wood.
The disadvantage of this method is the extra care required during
assembly and the potential for damaging finished parts.
The advantage is the perfection of finish in corners and the
uniformity of the finish across the piece. Not having to sand into
corners really helps the overall appearance as well.
Even if you don't pre-finish all of a piece, some elements make pre-
finishing essential. This approach is really good for things like
raised panel doors -- you don't have to worry about wood movement
exposing unfinished areas.
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 18:55:05 -0500, Renata <[email protected]> brought
forth from the murky depths:
>On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 23:20:00 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
>wrote:
>>Please note that he didn't say a word when I finished that last
>>wooddorking project, the poisonous bridge.
>
>Yes, but did you yet find a crik for that thar bridge?
Shore did. It developed in my neck as I installed the bloody thing.
It'll have matched butterfly bushes on either side come spring, and
the St. John's Wort will be replanted up to them, surrounding the
bridge.
-----------------------------------------------------------
--This post conscientiously crafted from 100% Recycled Pixels--
http://diversify.com Websites: PHP Programming, MySQL databases
=================================================================
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 23:20:00 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
wrote:
>On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 19:47:23 -0500, Silvan
><[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>Conan The Librarian wrote:
>>
>>> First of all, I wouldn't promise Lawwy anything. He promised us
>>> that he would finish his spokeshave and bowsaur years ago, and we know
>>> how that turned out.
>>
--snip--
>
>Conanski is just spoutin'. I did finish the spokeshave, pics and all,
>and told him that the bow saur would be done, er...some time this
>decade. Go back and look at the posts if you don't believe me.
>Please note that he didn't say a word when I finished that last
>wooddorking project, the poisonous bridge.
>
Yes, but did you yet find a crik for that thar bridge?
Renata
--snip--
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> --This post conscientiously crafted from 100% Recycled Pixels--
> http://diversify.com Websites: PHP Programming, MySQL databases
>=================================================================
smart, not dumb for email
Conan The Librarian wrote:
> It wouldn't hurt to give it a try sometime. I don't usually stain
> wood unless I'm trying to reproduce a particular color, but when I do
> stain I still go ahead and put on the topcoat before glueup.
I promised Monsieur Jacques that I would never, ever use stain again, so I
don't expect that to be a problem. I still had some projects in the
pipeline when I finally came over to the light side of the force. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:46:35 -0600, Conan The Librarian <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> First of all, I wouldn't promise Lawwy anything.
Does he actually do any woodworking? Or does he just bust balls on
the 'wreck? <G>
Barry
Conan The Librarian wrote:
> First of all, I wouldn't promise Lawwy anything. He promised us
> that he would finish his spokeshave and bowsaur years ago, and we know
> how that turned out.
Yeah, but if I don't do what I said I would, he yells at me. Just look how
freaked out he got when I told him I put poly all over a walnut/maple chess
board.
I'm just trying to keep the peace.
> Secondly, I hate stain, but I've found that there are cases where I
> have no choice. My main client (SWMBO) likes southwestern-style
> furniture, and it has an "aged" look to it that almost mandates the use
Gah. Not one of my favorite styles... I hope either you like the style
better than I do, or your SWMBO really makes it worth your while to produce
that stuff... ;)
> of some sort of stain. I tried coloring the wood with garnet shellac,
> and while I liked the look, SWMBO thought it was too "bright". I tried
> colored waxes and they looked too "dull".
Wimminz are like that. Luckily, SWMBO really isn't picky at all. Well,
obviously, since she married me. :)
Wow, I could go a long way with that. I guess I won't get into it. It's a
long tale of being raised to believe that all men are evil, and then
meeting a woman who gets pissed at me when I ask for her opinion on
something. "You're the man, it's your job to decide." WTF?
> So, where was I? Oh yes ... don't promise yourself you'll never
> stain wood if you ever make projects for anyone besides yourself. :-)
Hey, I didn't promise myself. I promised Larry. If I use stain, I just
won't tell anybody on the Wreck about it. :)
In truth, I don't have much use for stain anymore. I used to stain
everything walnut, because I didn't realize I had real walnut so close at
hand and readily available. I had never actually *seen* real walnut.
(Plus I had no way to surface anything, and I couldn't have done much with
it if I had had it sooner.) Once I discovered the local lumber dealer
hidden smack in the middle of town and got my hands on some of the real
stuff, I haven't stained anything walnut-colored, and my projects have
suddenly gotten much more expensive to build. Go figure. :)
I have to confess that I'm thinking about building a curio out of poplar
stained to resemble walnut. The real stuff is very much prettier, but
poplar is soooooo much cheaper, and I need sooooooo much wood for this
project. Sigh. Don't tell Larry I said that. I'm counting on you to keep
my secret, Conan.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Larry Jaques wrote:
> decade. Go back and look at the posts if you don't believe me.
> Please note that he didn't say a word when I finished that last
> wooddorking project, the poisonous bridge.
Yeah, sure, excuses, excuses.
>>Hey, I didn't promise myself. I promised Larry. If I use stain, I just
>>won't tell anybody on the Wreck about it. :)
>
> I HEARD THAT! <whap whap whap>
At least you didn't scream "SINNER!" at me this time.
>
>>project. Sigh. Don't tell Larry I said that. I'm counting on you to
>>keep my secret, Conan.
>
> He'd better NOT tell me. You know how I get. ;)
Yeah, I know. That's why you're going to send me a check for the price
difference between 18 bf of poplar and 18 bf of walnut, right? Right? :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Toller wrote:
> assembly? That way a little loose glue won't matter much, and it is
> probably easier anyhow. I am talking about the interior; the exterior
I don't recommend it. I did that once, and it was a PITA trying to keep
dust/hand prints out of the slightly tacky stain until I could get
everything together and finished. I managed to get some glue onto the
stain too, and it was damn near impossible to do anything about it. That
piece still has some little patches of yellow residue in a couple of
crannies.
Besides, anything that would screw up stain will screw up the top coat too,
so you really want to do a neat glue-up and take care of all the squooge
before you finish it.
("squooge" now there's another one to get into the OED some day... you
heard it here first, folks...)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/