I found this at
http://graphics.dupont.com/userguide/whats_special.shtml
------------------------------
UNIQUE FLAMMABILITY
The flammability characteristics of Tyvek=AE are similar to those of
most synthetic fibers. When exposed to a flame, Tyvek=AE shrinks away
rapidly. It will melt at 275=B0F (135=B0C), and its auto-ignition
temperature is 750=B0F (400=B0C). Please refer to the MSDS (Material
Safety Data Sheet) for additional information on the characteristics of
Tyvek=AE brand of protective materials. Hard structure products are
rated class "A" when tested in accordance with ASTM E-84-89a, a
test for flame and smoke development.
Soft structure products are rated "Class 1-Normal Flammability"
by the Federal Flammable Fabrics Act for Clothing Textiles (16
CFR-1610). Tyvek=AE with flame-retardant coatings are available through
distributors.=20
-----------------------------
Jim
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is Tyvek flammable?
>
> I have a wall in my shop with uncovered fiberglass insulation. I
> don't want to drywall it right now, and I know plastic burns very
> quickly. Tyvek was a thought to cover it.
If it meeds te buildingcodes,it is probably NOT flammable.
You can buy plastic sheeting in Home Depot that is not flammable. Keep in
mind that it may burn if in contact with an open flame, but if the flame is
removed it will go out. Codes generally require some sort of 15 minute
shield covering covering anyway.
I just spent two hours last Saturday listening to a presentation about
bromides used in plastics for fire prevention. Most of the day was spent on
equally exciting subjects, but it gets my wife and me to Las Vegas for four
days of all expenses paid "work"
Ed
In article <[email protected]>, Ba r r y wrote:
> Any other suggestions for a quick cover up until I can get a real
> wallcovering up next summer? I was figuring Tyvek, because I need a
> vapor barrier anyhow, and I could leave it up when the real cover up
> is installed.
http://construction.tyvek.com/en/constrSystems/remodelers/remodelerFAQs.shtml
#4: Is Tyvek a vapor barrier? No.
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:12:54 +0000 (UTC), John Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Try spelunking around tyvek.com ... I looked quickly and didn't see
> flammability.
> But, since it's used to wrap houses, I'd hope it's not flammable.
Um. The styrofoam insulation, the vinyl siding, the wood studs, the OSB
floors, the plastic finish on the hardwood floors...believe me, there's
plenty of fuel load in modern house construction. I'd be shocked if Tyvek
_didn't_ burn, since it's a plastic fiber after all.
Dave Hinz
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:03:44 GMT, Ba r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Any other suggestions for a quick cover up until I can get a real
> wallcovering up next summer? I was figuring Tyvek, because I need a
> vapor barrier anyhow, and I could leave it up when the real cover up
> is installed.
Tyvek isn't a vapor barrier, it's intentionally a vapor _passing_ membrane.
It's a wind barrier, nothing more.
Dave Hinz
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:24:52 GMT, Ba r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 23 Nov 2004 16:11:57 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Tyvek isn't a vapor barrier, it's intentionally a vapor _passing_ membrane.
>>It's a wind barrier, nothing more.
>
> I know that now. <G>
Actually, you knew it before I wrote my post, I just hadn't read ahead that far ;)
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:31:19 GMT, Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The styrofoam insulation, the vinyl siding, the wood studs, the OSB
>> floors, the plastic finish on the hardwood floors...believe me, there's
>> plenty of fuel load in modern house construction.
> And that doesn't even take into consideration all of the super combustibles
> in common household furnishings. If you've ever been in a house fire you'll
> know that it's that stuff that burns faster and with more toxins than
> anything used to build the house.
Yup, I've been in more than a couple of 'em, and the smoke gets black,
the flames get orange-red, and the heat is impressive even through
fire gear. Can't tell about the stink, though.
Put it this way...if the structure fire gets out through the drywall,
through the insulation, and to the tyvek, you're screwed in a big way
already. Flammability of it isn't much compared to everything else.
Dave Hinz
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:10:20 GMT, "Wilson Lamb"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Throw up some OSB or cheap paneling.
The wall has a million penetrations and runs behind a furnace. If I
was wanting to work with sheets, I'd simply drywall it. <G>
Barry
Glad someone finally mentioned this.
My suggestion - put the drywall up where the heat is supplied, use whatever
dust barrier you feel comfortable with elsewhere.
"Ed Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Ba r r y wrote:
>
> > Any other suggestions for a quick cover up until I can get a real
> > wallcovering up next summer? I was figuring Tyvek, because I need a
> > vapor barrier anyhow, and I could leave it up when the real cover up
> > is installed.
>
>
http://construction.tyvek.com/en/constrSystems/remodelers/remodelerFAQs.shtml
>
> #4: Is Tyvek a vapor barrier? No.
Our rich mutual uncle has his own "code" in remodeling, as we discovered
when we moved two walls in our work area once.
First, we had to have steel studs, and this at a time when they were
relatively uncommon. Meant we had to run a lot of wire protection, too. We
then found that we had to have 5/8" sheetrock to meet fire codes- stud type
unspecified, and special 20-minute rated paneling if we wanted wainscoting.
After protecting our steel studs from the wires with metal, from outside
flame with 45 and 20 minute cover, we than put down polypropylene carpeting
to ensure that humans would be thoroughly dead before any damage could occur
to the structure.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And that doesn't even take into consideration all of the super
combustibles
> in common household furnishings. If you've ever been in a house fire
you'll
> know that it's that stuff that burns faster and with more toxins than
> anything used to build the house.
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:41:56 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
> But it doesn't sound like it would be good for your application: If the
>Tyvek shrinks away in flame, that means what you covered up will be exposed
>to the flame
Pink fiberglass with no vapor barrier and raw studs, which have been
uncovered for 13 years. That's why the shrinkage would be acceptable,
compared at what might happen with other plastic or paper products.
Any other suggestions for a quick cover up until I can get a real
wallcovering up next summer? I was figuring Tyvek, because I need a
vapor barrier anyhow, and I could leave it up when the real cover up
is installed.
My long-term plan is to put up a solid surface, like plywood over most
of the wall, with drywall around the furnace. The solid stuff will
make it easy to attach hardware to. This wall currently has an insane
number of pipe, vent, and cable penetrations, and I'm not in the mood
to deal with it right now.
Thanks,
Barry
On 23 Nov 2004 12:13:51 GMT, Ed Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>#4: Is Tyvek a vapor barrier? No.
Thanks! I missed that, always thinking of the stuff as a vapor
barrier.
Barry
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:24:00 -0500, Dan Valleskey <valleskey at
comcast dot net> wrote:
>Actually, fiberglass insulation is not that bad. Are you sure you
>need to cover it at all?
It's collecting dust and the cats rub the bottom of it.
I also have it on the ceiling( first floor's floor underside), causing
it to rain fiberglass. I was planning to the remove the ceiling
batts. Compared to similar houses in the 'hood, I don't think the
ceiling makes much difference. They don't have the insulation. The
amount of fiberglass in the shop air filter and on the light fixtures
is amazing.
Since none of it has vapor barriers, I may go with the fire retardant
plastic that Ed mentioned. I'd like to put a ceiling in, but there is
lots of plumbing and wiring to deal with, and I'd rather not lose any
more height.
>Do you do a lot of grinding? welding? or just woodwork?
Mostly wood work and finishing.
Barry
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> It's collecting dust and the cats rub the bottom of it.
>
> I also have it on the ceiling( first floor's floor underside), causing
> it to rain fiberglass. I was planning to the remove the ceiling
> batts. Compared to similar houses in the 'hood, I don't think the
> ceiling makes much difference. They don't have the insulation. The
> amount of fiberglass in the shop air filter and on the light fixtures
> is amazing.
>
> Since none of it has vapor barriers, I may go with the fire retardant
> plastic that Ed mentioned. I'd like to put a ceiling in, but there is
> lots of plumbing and wiring to deal with, and I'd rather not lose any
> more height.
>
Hey Barry - I was thinking - do you necessarily need a vapor barrier?
That's mostly for the living area of houses where a lot of vapor is
generated from things like cooking, showers, etc. You mentioned you have a
furnace out there and some types of heat (depending on what you are calling
a furnace) do generate vapor. If yours is a real furnace with proper
venting to the outside, and is an occasional use device, I don't know that
I'd really worry about vapor from combustion though. How humid does it get?
If your exposed fiberglass does not get wet now, it's not going to get wet
with any sort of covering over it. I'd leave the fiberglass in place. It
does deaden sound somewhat - no a lot, but somewhat. It does keep your
space at a somewhat more consistent temperature than without. I would cover
it over with anything handy. Even sheet plastic if that's all I could get.
I'd look around for rolls of burlap. It breathes, it's very durable. It
won't cause a problem going over it when you finally decide to rock it. As
far as your fire retardant factor is concerned, you need to look at your
ceiling material to provide that. Most places are going to require 5/8in
sheetrock in a garage space by fire code, but if this is not subject to that
code, then 1/2 will likely be fine. You're not really going to gain any
significant amount of fire retardant character out of any material that you
just stretch across the joists and the insulation. It's all about heat and
anything you stretch up there isn't going to present enough of a barrier to
heat to amount to squat. That's why you need to think solid material...
eventually.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Throw up some OSB or cheap paneling.
Wilson
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is Tyvek flammable?
>
> I have a wall in my shop with uncovered fiberglass insulation. I
> don't want to drywall it right now, and I know plastic burns very
> quickly. Tyvek was a thought to cover it.
>
> Barry
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:12:54 +0000 (UTC), John Thomas
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >Try spelunking around tyvek.com ... I looked quickly and didn't see
> >flammability.
> >
>
> Maybe it's time to weasel a tyvek envelope out of the USPS and light
> it.
>
> I was trying to find this out before I bought a roll of housewrap,
> figuring some here has tried to light it already. <G>
>
> Eventually, I'll cover the wall with something more substantial, but
> this could quickly cover it for now.
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
Depends on your insurance. If you have insurance it will probably require
drywall installed.
Unless you have a buddy that builds houses and can bring you some scraps, or
you can buy a partial roll somewhere, Tyvek runs $100+ a roll. --dave
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone know what this means?
>
> "Flammability: Typically has a spread index of 0 and a smoke developed
> value of 25 when tested in accordance ASTM E-84-89a."
>
> Anybody a Fire Marshal? <G>
>
> Thanks!
> Barry
"Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:12:54 +0000 (UTC), John Thomas
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Try spelunking around tyvek.com ... I looked quickly and didn't see
> > flammability.
> > But, since it's used to wrap houses, I'd hope it's not flammable.
>
> Um. The styrofoam insulation, the vinyl siding, the wood studs, the OSB
> floors, the plastic finish on the hardwood floors...believe me, there's
> plenty of fuel load in modern house construction. I'd be shocked if Tyvek
> _didn't_ burn, since it's a plastic fiber after all.
>
> Dave Hinz
And that doesn't even take into consideration all of the super combustibles
in common household furnishings. If you've ever been in a house fire you'll
know that it's that stuff that burns faster and with more toxins than
anything used to build the house.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Ba r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Is Tyvek flammable?
>
> I have a wall in my shop with uncovered fiberglass insulation. I
> don't want to drywall it right now, and I know plastic burns very
> quickly. Tyvek was a thought to cover it.
>
> Barry
>
Barry,
Try spelunking around tyvek.com ... I looked quickly and didn't see
flammability.
But, since it's used to wrap houses, I'd hope it's not flammable.
Regards,
JT
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:12:54 +0000 (UTC), John Thomas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Try spelunking around tyvek.com ... I looked quickly and didn't see
>flammability.
>
Maybe it's time to weasel a tyvek envelope out of the USPS and light
it.
I was trying to find this out before I bought a roll of housewrap,
figuring some here has tried to light it already. <G>
Eventually, I'll cover the wall with something more substantial, but
this could quickly cover it for now.
Thanks,
Barry
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:26:49 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Hey Barry - I was thinking - do you necessarily need a vapor barrier?
>That's mostly for the living area of houses where a lot of vapor is
>generated from things like cooking, showers, etc. You mentioned you have a
>furnace out there and some types of heat (depending on what you are calling
>a furnace) do generate vapor.
It's the exposed wall of a walk-out basement. The furnace is the
house heat / hot water, and the basement also contains laundry
facilities.
Barry
Ba r r y wrote:
> On 22 Nov 2004 16:42:34 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I found this at
>>http://graphics.dupont.com/userguide/whats_special.shtml
>>
>>------------------------------
>>UNIQUE FLAMMABILITY
>>The flammability characteristics of Tyvek® are similar to those of
>>most synthetic fibers. When exposed to a flame, Tyvek® shrinks away
>>rapidly. It will melt at 275°F (135°C), and its auto-ignition
>>temperature is 750°F (400°C).
>
> Thanks.
>
> That sounds like it's a lot less flammable than most plastics.
Read the rest of it--the part about "soft structure".
> Barry
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:12:43 GMT, Ba r r y
<[email protected]> wrote:
|On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:24:00 -0500, Dan Valleskey <valleskey at
|comcast dot net> wrote:
|
|>Actually, fiberglass insulation is not that bad. Are you sure you
|>need to cover it at all?
|
|It's collecting dust and the cats rub the bottom of it.
|
|I also have it on the ceiling( first floor's floor underside), causing
|it to rain fiberglass. I was planning to the remove the ceiling
|batts. Compared to similar houses in the 'hood, I don't think the
|ceiling makes much difference. They don't have the insulation. The
|amount of fiberglass in the shop air filter and on the light fixtures
|is amazing.
Ouch. Not trying to be a smart ass here, but imagine what your lungs
look like. The fiberglass is probably helping with sound insulation
so you might want to consider that before taking it down. But in the
overall scheme of things, wouldn't it just be better to bite the
bullet and hire a drywall contractor to deal with the problem.
Benefits:
1) Cleaner shop and lungs.
2) Brighter lighting.
3) *Greatly* improved fire protection.
4) Over and done with quickly.
Downside:
1) Can't buy that new ______ (next tool purchase) until next year.
As you have discovered, it will burn if conditions are right. I think
(don't know for sure) that the fumes would be nasty. Things made to
go on the outside of the house have different flamibility standards
than those things that go inside of the drywalled portions f your
house.
Actually, fiberglass insulation is not that bad. Are you sure you
need to cover it at all?
Look at corrugated cardboard, ya sure it'll burn, but are the fumes as
bad as what comes out of burning tyvek?
And you could use boxes obtained from ... wherever. Hardware, liquor
stores, the Borg. Much less money than buying a roll of Tyvek.
staple it up, trim with a stanley knife.
Do you do a lot of grinding? welding? or just woodwork?
-Dan V.
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:53:01 GMT, Ba r r y
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Is Tyvek flammable?
>
>I have a wall in my shop with uncovered fiberglass insulation. I
>don't want to drywall it right now, and I know plastic burns very
>quickly. Tyvek was a thought to cover it.
>
>Barry
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:09:41 -0700, Wes Stewart <n7ws_@_yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Ouch. Not trying to be a smart ass here, but imagine what your lungs
>look like. The fiberglass is probably helping with sound insulation
>so you might want to consider that before taking it down. But in the
>overall scheme of things, wouldn't it just be better to bite the
>bullet and hire a drywall contractor to deal with the problem.
>
>Benefits:
>
>1) Cleaner shop and lungs.
>2) Brighter lighting.
>3) *Greatly* improved fire protection.
>4) Over and done with quickly.
>
>Downside:
>
>1) Can't buy that new ______ (next tool purchase) until next year.
2) much harder to add and rearrange shop circuits, lights, and
overhead dust collection pipe.
3) Loss of storage space
4) an even lower ceiling than I have now
5) the heat, plumbing and house wiring travel along a 8" x 12" center
beam. Sheeting this area in would kill a lot of space.
The sound isn't an issue, as the house is a cape, with our "den" on
the top floor. If I'm in the shop, she's two floors up, where her
work, the computers, and the TV's are. Around here, I really doubt
I could get a contractor before spring or summer anyway. New
construction and remodeling are absolutely flat out, just getting a
return phone call from anyone I'd actually want to hire is tough.
If I had the height, I'd put a drop ceiling in.
Believe me, I've thought about my lungs, which is why I have a suit,
respirator, and (50) 40 gallon trash bags for the insulation ready to
go when my hand is healed. It will be interesting to see if my
bicycling gets better when the insulation is gone. <G>
Our plan is actually to move in a few years, as we want more property,
so I don't really want to get crazy remodeling as a real shop down
there. I figure if the buyer hassles me about the 8 years of added
circuits in the basement, I'll simply offer to pull them out.
Thanks for the excellent ideas, though. In hindsight, I should have
done the ceiling first, but things kind of develop a life of their own
as time goes on.
Barry
> "Dave Hinz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Um. The styrofoam insulation, the vinyl siding, the wood studs, the OSB
>> floors, the plastic finish on the hardwood floors...believe me, there's
>> plenty of fuel load in modern house construction. I'd be shocked if
>> Tyvek
>> _didn't_ burn, since it's a plastic fiber after all.
>>
>> Dave Hinz
Hey Dave, don't be shocked. Just because it is plastic, it does not have
to burn. Just last week as was at a seminar about flame retardants in
plastic material. In the US and Japan, home appliances, TV, etc must be
made of flame retardant material. Not so in Europe where some countries
actually ban them. (In the US, 2 of every million TVs caused a fire while in
Sweden it is 178 out of a million. More and more serious results)
Grab a piece of that styrofoam insualtion and put your torch to it. See how
it burns? Now take the torch away? Surprise! the fire goes out.
Ed
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:46:24 GMT, Ba r r y
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 22 Nov 2004 16:42:34 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I found this at
>>http://graphics.dupont.com/userguide/whats_special.shtml
>>
>>------------------------------
>>UNIQUE FLAMMABILITY
>>The flammability characteristics of Tyvek® are similar to those of
>>most synthetic fibers. When exposed to a flame, Tyvek® shrinks away
>>rapidly. It will melt at 275°F (135°C), and its auto-ignition
>>temperature is 750°F (400°C).
>
>Thanks.
>
>That sounds like it's a lot less flammable than most plastics.
>
>Barry
But it doesn't sound like it would be good for your application: If the
Tyvek shrinks away in flame, that means what you covered up will be exposed
to the flame; if it's flammable, you may as well not have bothered with the
Tyvek.
On 23 Nov 2004 16:11:57 GMT, Dave Hinz <[email protected]> wrote:
>Tyvek isn't a vapor barrier, it's intentionally a vapor _passing_ membrane.
>It's a wind barrier, nothing more.
I know that now. <G>
I think I'm just going to move the real wall covering project up a few
slots and get it over with. It's about a 30 x 7 1/2' wall, and I
don't think there's a 4 foot section without either a penetration, or
something like a stove pipe support.
Thanks, everyone!
Barry
On 22 Nov 2004 16:42:34 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>I found this at
>http://graphics.dupont.com/userguide/whats_special.shtml
>
>------------------------------
>UNIQUE FLAMMABILITY
>The flammability characteristics of Tyvek® are similar to those of
>most synthetic fibers. When exposed to a flame, Tyvek® shrinks away
>rapidly. It will melt at 275°F (135°C), and its auto-ignition
>temperature is 750°F (400°C).
Thanks.
That sounds like it's a lot less flammable than most plastics.
Barry
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:12:54 +0000 (UTC), John Thomas
<[email protected]> wrote:
|Ba r r y <[email protected]> wrote in
|news:[email protected]:
|
|> Is Tyvek flammable?
|>
|> I have a wall in my shop with uncovered fiberglass insulation. I
|> don't want to drywall it right now, and I know plastic burns very
|> quickly. Tyvek was a thought to cover it.
|>
|> Barry
|>
|
|Barry,
|
|Try spelunking around tyvek.com ... I looked quickly and didn't see
|flammability.
|
|But, since it's used to wrap houses, I'd hope it's not flammable.
Hmmm. We wrap them with *wood* and tar paper (building felt) too :)
I think your best bet is to use foil faced kraft paper. This is what is
used as a vapor barrier/fire supressor/ insulator around the framing in
fireplaces. Plus, it's less expensive than tyvek.--dave
"Wilson Lamb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Throw up some OSB or cheap paneling.
> Wilson
> "Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Is Tyvek flammable?
>>
>> I have a wall in my shop with uncovered fiberglass insulation. I
>> don't want to drywall it right now, and I know plastic burns very
>> quickly. Tyvek was a thought to cover it.
>>
>> Barry
>
>