In the heyday of sailing ships, all war ships and many freighters carried
iron cannons. Those cannons fired round iron cannon balls. It was necessary
to keep a good supply near the cannon. However, how to prevent them from
rolling about the deck? The best storage method devised was a square-based
pyramid with one ball on top, resting on four resting on nine, which rested
on sixteen Thus, a supply of 30 cannon balls could be stacked in a small
area right next to the cannon. There was only one problem...how to prevent
the bottom layer from sliding or rolling from under the others. The solution
was a metal plate called a "Monkey" with 16 round indentations.
However, if this plate were made of iron, the iron balls would quickly rust
to it. The solution to the rusting problem was to make "Brass Monkeys." Few
landlubbers realize that brass contracts much more and much faster than iron
when chilled. Consequently, when the temperature dropped too far, the brass
indentations would shrink so much that the iron cannonballs would come right
off the monkey. Thus, it was quite literally,
"Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey."
On Jul 13, 7:49=A0pm, "Jay R" <[email protected]> wrote:
> As I recall, regardless of the metrial, it does not cease to exist during
> corrrsion. =A0When iron is reduced fo instance, it creates iron oride.
>
> Because the nut and bolt corrode at an equal rate, the iron oxide melds a=
nd
> causes the freezing of the two parts.
>
> Too many years in the Navy =A0I guess.
>
> Soak in WD 40 or Naval Jelly for about a year and good luck.
>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:AsadnZGSIrZB=
[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > Leon wrote:
>
> > ... snip
>
> >> AND how can the degradation of a material cause it to stick to the sam=
e
> >> material?
>
> > =A0Ever tried to remove a rusted nut from a rusted bolt?
>
> > --
> > If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The whole thing is moot. See: http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.=
asp
Nahmie
"Brad Naylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In the heyday of sailing ships, all war ships and many freighters carried
> iron cannons. Those cannons fired round iron cannon balls. It was
> necessary
> to keep a good supply near the cannon. However, how to prevent them from
> rolling about the deck? The best storage method devised was a square-based
> pyramid with one ball on top, resting on four resting on nine, which
> rested
> on sixteen Thus, a supply of 30 cannon balls could be stacked in a small
> area right next to the cannon. There was only one problem...how to prevent
> the bottom layer from sliding or rolling from under the others. The
> solution
> was a metal plate called a "Monkey" with 16 round indentations.
> However, if this plate were made of iron, the iron balls would quickly
> rust
> to it. The solution to the rusting problem was to make "Brass Monkeys."
> Few
> landlubbers realize that brass contracts much more and much faster than
> iron
> when chilled. Consequently, when the temperature dropped too far, the
> brass
> indentations would shrink so much that the iron cannonballs would come
> right
> off the monkey. Thus, it was quite literally,
> "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey."
>
>
"IF" this were true, Splain to me how the "Brass Monkey" prevented the Iron
Balls from rusting to each other!
AND how can the degradation of a material cause it to stick to the same
material?
On Jul 13, 9:34 pm, Nahmie <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 13, 7:49 pm, "Jay R" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > As I recall, regardless of the metrial, it does not cease to exist during
> > corrrsion. When iron is reduced fo instance, it creates iron oride.
>
> > Because the nut and bolt corrode at an equal rate, the iron oxide melds and
> > causes the freezing of the two parts.
>
> > Too many years in the Navy I guess.
>
> > Soak in WD 40 or Naval Jelly for about a year and good luck.
>
> > "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
> > > Leon wrote:
>
> > > ... snip
>
> > >> AND how can the degradation of a material cause it to stick to the same
> > >> material?
>
> > > Ever tried to remove a rusted nut from a rusted bolt?
>
> > > --
> > > If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The whole thing is moot. See:http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.asp
>
> Nahmie
Too, from my reading many years ago, I seem to recall the on-deck
(ready-to-shoot) cannonballs were stored in a rope circle, of
appropriate size for the ball size. Maybe I should have watched
"Master and Commander" more closely, but I recall that from reading
all of the Hornblower and Bolitho novels years ago.
Leon wrote:
>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>> ... snip
>>>
>>> AND how can the degradation of a material cause it to stick to the same
>>> material?
>>
>> Ever tried to remove a rusted nut from a rusted bolt?
>
>
> Different situation, they are interconnected. The cannon ball example is
> more like, ever picked up a rusty screw driver?
Really more like trying to separate things in a rusty pile. Things that
have been in tight contact can have the oxidation products adhere to one
another and make them different to separate.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Brad Naylor" wrote:
>" Few
> landlubbers realize that brass contracts much more and much faster than
> iron
> when chilled. Consequently, when the temperature dropped too far, the
> brass
> indentations would shrink so much that the iron cannonballs would come
> right
> off the monkey. Thus, it was quite literally,
> "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey."
Brass (Copper & Zinc) and sea water are NOT compatible.
Sea water leeches the zinc out of brass leaving a honeycomb structure that
is useless.
Even though the plate is known as a "Brass Monkey", most likely made of
bronze (Copper & Tin), a standard of the time for vessel construction.
Lew
As I recall, regardless of the metrial, it does not cease to exist during
corrrsion. When iron is reduced fo instance, it creates iron oride.
Because the nut and bolt corrode at an equal rate, the iron oxide melds and
causes the freezing of the two parts.
Too many years in the Navy I guess.
Soak in WD 40 or Naval Jelly for about a year and good luck.
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
> ... snip
>>
>> AND how can the degradation of a material cause it to stick to the same
>> material?
>
> Ever tried to remove a rusted nut from a rusted bolt?
>
>
> --
> If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
> ... snip
>>
>> AND how can the degradation of a material cause it to stick to the same
>> material?
>
> Ever tried to remove a rusted nut from a rusted bolt?
Different situation, they are interconnected. The cannon ball example is
more like, ever picked up a rusty screw driver?
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:22:55 -0700, DGDevin wrote:
> It has often been claimed that the "brass monkey" was a holder or storage
> rack in which cannon balls (or shot) were stacked on a ship. Supposedly when
> the "monkey" with its stack of cannon ball became cold, the contraction of
> iron cannon balls led to the balls falling through or off of the "monkey."
> This explanation appears to be a legend of the sea without historical
> justification.
Ranks right up there with the "explanation" of 4' 8.5" gauge :-).
Hardly.
32# shot has a diameter of about 6.35" making the monkey about 25.4" square.
The coefficient of expansion for iron = 11.1e-6 and brass = 19e-6.
For a 100°C temperature change the difference in expansion between
4 cannon balls and the edge of the monkey is only 0.02".
Art
"Brad Naylor" wrote ...
[snip]
> Thus, it was quite literally,
> "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey."
Brad Naylor wrote:
> In the heyday of sailing ships, all war ships and many freighters
> carried iron cannons. Those cannons fired round iron cannon balls. It
> was necessary to keep a good supply near the cannon. However, how to
> prevent them from rolling about the deck? The best storage method
> devised was a square-based pyramid with one ball on top, resting on
> four resting on nine, which rested on sixteen Thus, a supply of 30
> cannon balls could be stacked in a small area right next to the
> cannon. There was only one problem...how to prevent the bottom layer
> from sliding or rolling from under the others. The solution was a
> metal plate called a "Monkey" with 16 round indentations. However, if this
> plate were made of iron, the iron balls would
> quickly rust to it. The solution to the rusting problem was to make
> "Brass Monkeys." Few landlubbers realize that brass contracts much
> more and much faster than iron when chilled. Consequently, when the
> temperature dropped too far, the brass indentations would shrink so
> much that the iron cannonballs would come right off the monkey. Thus,
> it was quite literally, "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass
> monkey."
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq107.htm
It has often been claimed that the "brass monkey" was a holder or storage
rack in which cannon balls (or shot) were stacked on a ship. Supposedly when
the "monkey" with its stack of cannon ball became cold, the contraction of
iron cannon balls led to the balls falling through or off of the "monkey."
This explanation appears to be a legend of the sea without historical
justification. In actuality, ready service shot was kept on the gun or spar
decks in shot racks (also known as shot garlands in the Royal Navy) which
consisted of longitudinal wooden planks with holes bored into them, into
which round shot (cannon balls) were inserted for ready use by the gun crew.
These shot racks or garlands are discussed in: Longridge, C. Nepean. The
Anatomy of Nelson's Ships. (Annapolis MD: Naval Institute Press, 1981): 64.
A top view of shot garlands on the upper deck of a ship-of-the-line is
depicted in The Visual Dictionary of Ships and Sailing. New York: Dorling
Kindersley, 1991): 17.
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwordorigins/brassmonkeys?view=uk
What is the origin of the term 'brass monkey'?
The story goes that cannonballs used to be stored aboard ship in piles, on a
brass frame or tray called a 'monkey'. In very cold weather the brass would
contract, spilling the cannonballs: hence very cold weather is 'cold enough
to freeze the balls off a brass monkey'. There are several problems with
this story. The first is that the term 'monkey' is not otherwise recorded as
the name for such an object. The second is that the rate of contraction of
brass in cold temperatures is unlikely to be sufficient to cause the reputed
effect. The third is that the phrase is actually first recorded as 'freeze
the tail off a brass monkey', which removes any essential connection with
balls. It therefore seems most likely that the phrase is simply a ribald
allusion to the fact that metal figures will become very cold to the touch
in cold weather (and some materials will become brittle).