I agre with you that there prices are too high but I do not agree with
you that the Veritas chain drive is better than the LN chain drive. The
LN chain drive is a much simplier mechanism. Look at all the parts
involved with the Veritas!
Also, to make a good decision about differences between the two, I'd
need to see them. The machining might be better on the LN - at this
point I don't think either of us know.
BTW, Lee Valley/Veritasis one of my favorite companies so please don't
interpret me as a disparaging LV/Veritas. LN is also one of my favorate
companies......
Hax Planx wrote:
>if you buy Veritas tools retail, they will cost a lot more
> than at the LV web site. I have found the prices to vary wildly.
L-N
> is selling their tools on their web site at retail prices, presumably
so
> that dealers like Woodcraft will continue to stock them. If you
could
> get it direct from L-N for a much lower price, dealers wouldn't be
> happy. You could say the same thing applies to LV, but I haven't in
> fact ever seen their planes sold retail. I suggested to a shop owner
> just the other day that he should carry Veritas planes and he said he
> couldn't get them. Moreover, I WON'T be buying any more Veritas
tools
> retail, because I know now I can get them much cheaper from LV.
Sigh. You're paying retail at the LV site. What you aren't paying is
extra mark up often (usually?) added by other retailers. Items sold
through Rockler and others are sold at wholesale to the retailer, which
then adds its own mark-up, whatever that might be (as high as possible
consistent with sales possibilities). The price LV charges on-site is
their retail price. If other retailers feel a need to charge more,
that's their business, but it is NOT because LV is offering cost
cutting on-site.
You cannot buy Veritas planes from other retailers, if my memory serves
from a conversation with Rob Lee a few years ago, because they can't
offer a decent wholesale-retail price spread on them and still make a
profit, thus all LV planes are sold through LV only. Selling this way
is part of an effort LV makes to provide a top notch plane at a below
top-notch price. My experience with several of their planes indicates
they are succeeding with the top notch plane part.
> I think their prices are too high. I'd be hard pressed to see any
> differences between their vise hardware and Veritas. How in the world do
> they justify $35 for a round bench dog when Lee Valley gets $9.95 for one
> that is excellent quality. I'd also take the Lee Valley twin screw vise at
> $179 over their chain drive shoulder vise at $258 any day.
>
> Bob
>
>
HEAR-HEAR!
"Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anybody tried any of the vises that Lie-Nielsen (LN) is now carrying?
> The are expensive but look top-of-the-line.
>
I think their prices are too high. I'd be hard pressed to see any
differences between their vise hardware and Veritas. How in the world do
they justify $35 for a round bench dog when Lee Valley gets $9.95 for one
that is excellent quality. I'd also take the Lee Valley twin screw vise at
$179 over their chain drive shoulder vise at $258 any day.
Bob
BillyBob says...
> I think their prices are too high. I'd be hard pressed to see any
> differences between their vise hardware and Veritas. How in the world do
> they justify $35 for a round bench dog when Lee Valley gets $9.95 for one
> that is excellent quality. I'd also take the Lee Valley twin screw vise at
> $179 over their chain drive shoulder vise at $258 any day.
>
> Bob
Actually, there are some differences in the bench dogs. The L-N dogs
are much longer and that is $35 for a pair. It is $18.50 for a pair at
LV. Also, if you buy Veritas tools retail, they will cost a lot more
than at the LV web site. I have found the prices to vary wildly. L-N
is selling their tools on their web site at retail prices, presumably so
that dealers like Woodcraft will continue to stock them. If you could
get it direct from L-N for a much lower price, dealers wouldn't be
happy. You could say the same thing applies to LV, but I haven't in
fact ever seen their planes sold retail. I suggested to a shop owner
just the other day that he should carry Veritas planes and he said he
couldn't get them. Moreover, I WON'T be buying any more Veritas tools
retail, because I know now I can get them much cheaper from LV.
Charlie Self says...
> Sigh. You're paying retail at the LV site. What you aren't paying is
> extra mark up often (usually?) added by other retailers. Items sold
> through Rockler and others are sold at wholesale to the retailer, which
> then adds its own mark-up, whatever that might be (as high as possible
> consistent with sales possibilities). The price LV charges on-site is
> their retail price. If other retailers feel a need to charge more,
> that's their business, but it is NOT because LV is offering cost
> cutting on-site.
I based that assumption on the fact that if you buy a L-N plane at
Woodcraft, it will have the same price as one from the L-N web site.
For Veritas tools, check with five different suppliers and you will see
five different prices, with LV always being by far the lowest.
Obviously, L-N is exerting more control on the pricing of their products
than LV/Veritas. And while I won't argue about whether LV is charging
retail prices, if they are, it seems that what they consider to be a
standard retail markup is very different from what most American
retailers consider a standard markup. If they are just profiteering,
then shame on them. But in any case, I won't be buying much Veritas
from anywhere but LV from now on.
> Obviously, L-N is exerting more control on the pricing of their products
> than LV/Veritas. And while I won't argue about whether LV is charging
> retail prices, if they are, it seems that what they consider to be a
> standard retail markup is very different from what most American
> retailers consider a standard markup. If they are just profiteering,
> then shame on them. But in any case, I won't be buying much Veritas
> from anywhere but LV from now on.
I kind if hate to go there, but an explanation may be currency changes. Rob
has gone on record as saying that LV sets US prices annually and takes it
lumps (or spoils) accordingly over the course of the year as currency
exchange rates fluctuate. The Canadian $ (a.k.a. loonie) has consistently
gained over the past 2 years or so. As LV pricing is held for a year this
causes US pricing to be appear artificially low.
This has pissed off a few Canadians, but that is a dead horse which has
already been flogged beyond recognition.
-Steve
On 3 May 2005 01:54:01 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You cannot buy Veritas planes from other retailers, if my memory serves
>from a conversation with Rob Lee a few years ago, because they can't
>offer a decent wholesale-retail price spread on them and still make a
>profit, thus all LV planes are sold through LV only.
Ah - that explains something. Axminster (high-end UK mail order
toolshop) sell many LV items, but not the planes. I'd always wondered
why.
On Tue, 03 May 2005 12:11:07 +0100, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 3 May 2005 01:54:01 -0700, "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>You cannot buy Veritas planes from other retailers, if my memory serves
>>from a conversation with Rob Lee a few years ago, because they can't
>>offer a decent wholesale-retail price spread on them and still make a
>>profit, thus all LV planes are sold through LV only.
>
>Ah - that explains something. Axminster (high-end UK mail order
>toolshop) sell many LV items, but not the planes. I'd always wondered
>why.
But HM Diffusion in France does have the planes...It can't be the only
reason for Axminster not having them. All very strange.
only one p in my real address / un seul p dans ma véritable adresse
"Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I agre with you that there prices are too high but I do not agree with
> you that the Veritas chain drive is better than the LN chain drive. The
> LN chain drive is a much simplier mechanism. Look at all the parts
> involved with the Veritas!
They look like the same mechanisms to me, except one has two handles, which
can be released to allow clamping out of square pieces.
Bob
"Hax Planx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Actually, there are some differences in the bench dogs. The L-N dogs
> are much longer and that is $35 for a pair. It is $18.50 for a pair at
> LV.
You got me on both counts. Good catch! I know Lie Nielsen aims for the
high end. I guess these are for the guy with the 5" thick benchtop.
Bob