Hi.
Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been practicing
for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated because I
couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After going
through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem. My
homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each board
causing the next to be off.
Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want to
know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my router?
Thanks,
Mike
"Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi.
>
> Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been practicing
> for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated because I
> couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises.
You could use the old table saw trick where you get the router bit as
close to center as possible, feed it one way, then flip it around and
feed it the other.
WARNING: You'll be going WITH the rotation of the bit on one of the
passes. I've done this a few times, and just be careful, feed slowly,
and it works fine.
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:30:33 GMT, "stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
|How do you cut a mortise with a TS?
Sounds "groovy" to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
|news:[email protected]...
|> Mike -
|>
|> Just my $.02 worth -
|>
|> I just finished a project that used mortise & tenon's on virtually every
|> piece of frame. The mortises were done length-wise on the long lengths of
|> the frame boards, as well as needing tenons on the ends.
|>
|> I found that after working very hard to set up my fence with a sacrificial
|> strip, I could get fairly consistent results. The drawback was that I had
|> to make multiple passes because I was limited by how deep I could cut. I
|> could only do about a1/8" depth cut at a time, otherwise, the rotation of
|> the router would cause the board to whip around and tear it up. On a
|> required 1/4" mortise, that was two passes per mortise, times 15 - 18
|> pieces....lots of work.
|>
|> After the second piece, I figured the easier way was to slap my Delta dado
|> cutter into the TS, and let it "rip". Yeah, there was some set-up time,
|but
|> it was a little less, and I could cut as deep as I wanted, with one pass
|and
|> consistent results.
|>
|> I have to say that the cut on the router was cleaner, but with that many
|> mortises to do, it was easier with the dado, and the results were
|> acceptable. The dado worked better on this project, but I'll do the
|router
|> if I there's an appearance requirement. The big learning lesson for me
|was
|> that I could only take a small amount of cut each time with the router
|> set-up.
|>
|> Nick B
|>
|> "Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
|> news:[email protected]...
|> > Hi.
|> >
|> > Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
|> > and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been
|practicing
|> > for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated
|because
|> I
|> > couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After
|> going
|> > through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem.
|> My
|> > homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
|> > maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each
|> board
|> > causing the next to be off.
|> >
|> > Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want
|> to
|> > know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my
|router?
|> >
|> > Thanks,
|> > Mike
|> >
|> >
|> >
|>
|>
|
Look at Pat Warner's site for some ideas www.patwarner.com
Bob S.
"Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi.
>
> Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been practicing
> for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated because
I
> couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After
going
> through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem.
My
> homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
> maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each
board
> causing the next to be off.
>
> Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want
to
> know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my router?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>
Cool site, but I don't think there is enough detail for a newbie like me.
I'll keep investigating though.
I am using a straight bit. Should I use a spiral bit? Arent they rounded
at the top? If so, would that cause issues?
Thanks,
Mike
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This guy knows his stuff on the M&T drill:
>
> http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00011.asp
>
> The type of router bit you use has a GREAT deal to do with
> the results. Are you using a spiral bit ????
>
>
> Mike W. wrote:
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> > and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been
practicing
> > for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated
because I
> > couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After
going
> > through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem.
My
> > homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
> > maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each
board
> > causing the next to be off.
> >
> > Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want
to
> > know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my
router?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>
Yep. I started doing that after the 3rd board that I screwed up. I even
went so far as to buildt a new fence... still had the same problems. I'm
99% sure that its the insert. I'm going to have to either build a new top
or get a bigger insert.
Thanks,
Mike
"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Are you using feather boards to secure the piece to the table and to the
> fence?
>
> Brian.
>
>
>
> "Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi.
> >
> > Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> > and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been
practicing
> > for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated
because
> I
> > couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After
> going
> > through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem.
> My
> > homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
> > maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each
> board
> > causing the next to be off.
> >
> > Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want
> to
> > know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my
router?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>
>
How do you cut a mortise with a TS?
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike -
>
> Just my $.02 worth -
>
> I just finished a project that used mortise & tenon's on virtually every
> piece of frame. The mortises were done length-wise on the long lengths of
> the frame boards, as well as needing tenons on the ends.
>
> I found that after working very hard to set up my fence with a sacrificial
> strip, I could get fairly consistent results. The drawback was that I had
> to make multiple passes because I was limited by how deep I could cut. I
> could only do about a1/8" depth cut at a time, otherwise, the rotation of
> the router would cause the board to whip around and tear it up. On a
> required 1/4" mortise, that was two passes per mortise, times 15 - 18
> pieces....lots of work.
>
> After the second piece, I figured the easier way was to slap my Delta dado
> cutter into the TS, and let it "rip". Yeah, there was some set-up time,
but
> it was a little less, and I could cut as deep as I wanted, with one pass
and
> consistent results.
>
> I have to say that the cut on the router was cleaner, but with that many
> mortises to do, it was easier with the dado, and the results were
> acceptable. The dado worked better on this project, but I'll do the
router
> if I there's an appearance requirement. The big learning lesson for me
was
> that I could only take a small amount of cut each time with the router
> set-up.
>
> Nick B
>
> "Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi.
> >
> > Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> > and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been
practicing
> > for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated
because
> I
> > couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After
> going
> > through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem.
> My
> > homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
> > maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each
> board
> > causing the next to be off.
> >
> > Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want
> to
> > know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my
router?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Are you marking up properly with face and edge marks? For all
machining with a fence and a table you should have either the chosen
face or edge against the fence/table. This means that any error with
centreing or with variations in thickness will not affect the
face/edge sides but only the backs.
cheers
Jacob
"Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Yep. I started doing that after the 3rd board that I screwed up. I even
> went so far as to buildt a new fence... still had the same problems. I'm
> 99% sure that its the insert. I'm going to have to either build a new top
> or get a bigger insert.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> "Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Are you using feather boards to secure the piece to the table and to the
> > fence?
> >
> > Brian.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> > > and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been
> practicing
> > > for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated
> because
> I
> > > couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After
> going
> > > through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem.
> My
> > > homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
> > > maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each
> board
> > > causing the next to be off.
> > >
> > > Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want
> to
> > > know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my
> router?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
Mike -
Just my $.02 worth -
I just finished a project that used mortise & tenon's on virtually every
piece of frame. The mortises were done length-wise on the long lengths of
the frame boards, as well as needing tenons on the ends.
I found that after working very hard to set up my fence with a sacrificial
strip, I could get fairly consistent results. The drawback was that I had
to make multiple passes because I was limited by how deep I could cut. I
could only do about a1/8" depth cut at a time, otherwise, the rotation of
the router would cause the board to whip around and tear it up. On a
required 1/4" mortise, that was two passes per mortise, times 15 - 18
pieces....lots of work.
After the second piece, I figured the easier way was to slap my Delta dado
cutter into the TS, and let it "rip". Yeah, there was some set-up time, but
it was a little less, and I could cut as deep as I wanted, with one pass and
consistent results.
I have to say that the cut on the router was cleaner, but with that many
mortises to do, it was easier with the dado, and the results were
acceptable. The dado worked better on this project, but I'll do the router
if I there's an appearance requirement. The big learning lesson for me was
that I could only take a small amount of cut each time with the router
set-up.
Nick B
"Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi.
>
> Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been practicing
> for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated because
I
> couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After
going
> through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem.
My
> homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
> maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each
board
> causing the next to be off.
>
> Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want
to
> know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my router?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>
Yeah, I think your right. Unless he is dropping his boards onto the
spinning dado and then lifting it off. If he is doing that I hope he has
911 on speed dial.
"Wes Stewart" <*n7ws*@arrl.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:30:33 GMT, "stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
>
> |How do you cut a mortise with a TS?
>
> Sounds "groovy" to me.
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> |news:[email protected]...
> |> Mike -
> |>
> |> Just my $.02 worth -
> |>
> |> I just finished a project that used mortise & tenon's on virtually
every
> |> piece of frame. The mortises were done length-wise on the long lengths
of
> |> the frame boards, as well as needing tenons on the ends.
> |>
> |> I found that after working very hard to set up my fence with a
sacrificial
> |> strip, I could get fairly consistent results. The drawback was that I
had
> |> to make multiple passes because I was limited by how deep I could cut.
I
> |> could only do about a1/8" depth cut at a time, otherwise, the rotation
of
> |> the router would cause the board to whip around and tear it up. On a
> |> required 1/4" mortise, that was two passes per mortise, times 15 - 18
> |> pieces....lots of work.
> |>
> |> After the second piece, I figured the easier way was to slap my Delta
dado
> |> cutter into the TS, and let it "rip". Yeah, there was some set-up
time,
> |but
> |> it was a little less, and I could cut as deep as I wanted, with one
pass
> |and
> |> consistent results.
> |>
> |> I have to say that the cut on the router was cleaner, but with that
many
> |> mortises to do, it was easier with the dado, and the results were
> |> acceptable. The dado worked better on this project, but I'll do the
> |router
> |> if I there's an appearance requirement. The big learning lesson for me
> |was
> |> that I could only take a small amount of cut each time with the router
> |> set-up.
> |>
> |> Nick B
> |>
> |> "Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> |> news:[email protected]...
> |> > Hi.
> |> >
> |> > Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados,
mortises,
> |> > and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been
> |practicing
> |> > for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated
> |because
> |> I
> |> > couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises.
After
> |> going
> |> > through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my
problem.
> |> My
> |> > homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way
around...
> |> > maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of
each
> |> board
> |> > causing the next to be off.
> |> >
> |> > Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just
want
> |> to
> |> > know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my
> |router?
> |> >
> |> > Thanks,
> |> > Mike
> |> >
> |> >
> |> >
> |>
> |>
> |
>
On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:26:03 GMT, "Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
|You're right!! The newbie screwed up - I was thinking about and referring to
|a dado - though I was thinking the prinicpal was the same. After using the
|router to attempt the dado, it would seem that if you were doing a mortise
|with the router, and it was any length at all, you'd have to do it in
|multiple passes, limiting the depth of cut for each pass -
Hmmm. You said "The mortises were done length-wise on the long
lengths..."
That tells me that they were with the grain. That makes them
"grooves", not "dados." <g> Hence my "Groovy" comment.
Nevertheless, I don't see why the length of the groove, dado, mortise,
etc would be a factor in determining the depth of cut.
|
|I have a Delta mortise machine - when I need to do a mortise, I it :)
|(would this be a "Duh" or a "Doh"??)
Duh, I don't know.
|
|Nick B
|
|
|"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:cP4Kb.58331$I07.247675@attbi_s53...
|> Yeah, I think your right. Unless he is dropping his boards onto the
|> spinning dado and then lifting it off. If he is doing that I hope he has
|> 911 on speed dial.
|>
|>
|> "Wes Stewart" <*n7ws*@arrl.net> wrote in message
|> news:[email protected]...
|> > On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:30:33 GMT, "stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
|> >
|> > |How do you cut a mortise with a TS?
|> >
|> > Sounds "groovy" to me.
|> > |
|> > |
|> > |
|> > |
|> > |
|> > |"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
|> > |news:[email protected]...
|> > |> Mike -
|> > |>
|> > |> Just my $.02 worth -
|> > |>
|> > |> I just finished a project that used mortise & tenon's on virtually
|> every
|> > |> piece of frame. The mortises were done length-wise on the long
|lengths
|> of
|> > |> the frame boards, as well as needing tenons on the ends.
|> > |>
|> > |> I found that after working very hard to set up my fence with a
|> sacrificial
|> > |> strip, I could get fairly consistent results. The drawback was that
|I
|> had
|> > |> to make multiple passes because I was limited by how deep I could
|cut.
|> I
|> > |> could only do about a1/8" depth cut at a time, otherwise, the
|rotation
|> of
|> > |> the router would cause the board to whip around and tear it up. On a
|> > |> required 1/4" mortise, that was two passes per mortise, times 15 - 18
|> > |> pieces....lots of work.
|> > |>
|> > |> After the second piece, I figured the easier way was to slap my Delta
|> dado
|> > |> cutter into the TS, and let it "rip". Yeah, there was some set-up
|> time,
|> > |but
|> > |> it was a little less, and I could cut as deep as I wanted, with one
|> pass
|> > |and
|> > |> consistent results.
|> > |>
|> > |> I have to say that the cut on the router was cleaner, but with that
|> many
|> > |> mortises to do, it was easier with the dado, and the results were
|> > |> acceptable. The dado worked better on this project, but I'll do the
|> > |router
|> > |> if I there's an appearance requirement. The big learning lesson for
|me
|> > |was
|> > |> that I could only take a small amount of cut each time with the
|router
|> > |> set-up.
|> > |>
|> > |> Nick B
|> > |>
|> > |> "Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
|> > |> news:[email protected]...
|> > |> > Hi.
|> > |> >
|> > |> > Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados,
|> mortises,
|> > |> > and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been
|> > |practicing
|> > |> > for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated
|> > |because
|> > |> I
|> > |> > couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises.
|> After
|> > |> going
|> > |> > through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my
|> problem.
|> > |> My
|> > |> > homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way
|> around...
|> > |> > maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of
|> each
|> > |> board
|> > |> > causing the next to be off.
|> > |> >
|> > |> > Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just
|> want
|> > |> to
|> > |> > know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my
|> > |router?
|> > |> >
|> > |> > Thanks,
|> > |> > Mike
|> > |> >
|> > |> >
|> > |> >
|> > |>
|> > |>
|> > |
|> >
|>
|>
|
You're right!! The newbie screwed up - I was thinking about and referring to
a dado - though I was thinking the prinicpal was the same. After using the
router to attempt the dado, it would seem that if you were doing a mortise
with the router, and it was any length at all, you'd have to do it in
multiple passes, limiting the depth of cut for each pass -
I have a Delta mortise machine - when I need to do a mortise, I it :)
(would this be a "Duh" or a "Doh"??)
Nick B
"stoutman" <.@.> wrote in message news:cP4Kb.58331$I07.247675@attbi_s53...
> Yeah, I think your right. Unless he is dropping his boards onto the
> spinning dado and then lifting it off. If he is doing that I hope he has
> 911 on speed dial.
>
>
> "Wes Stewart" <*n7ws*@arrl.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:30:33 GMT, "stoutman" <.@.> wrote:
> >
> > |How do you cut a mortise with a TS?
> >
> > Sounds "groovy" to me.
> > |
> > |
> > |
> > |
> > |
> > |"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > |news:[email protected]...
> > |> Mike -
> > |>
> > |> Just my $.02 worth -
> > |>
> > |> I just finished a project that used mortise & tenon's on virtually
> every
> > |> piece of frame. The mortises were done length-wise on the long
lengths
> of
> > |> the frame boards, as well as needing tenons on the ends.
> > |>
> > |> I found that after working very hard to set up my fence with a
> sacrificial
> > |> strip, I could get fairly consistent results. The drawback was that
I
> had
> > |> to make multiple passes because I was limited by how deep I could
cut.
> I
> > |> could only do about a1/8" depth cut at a time, otherwise, the
rotation
> of
> > |> the router would cause the board to whip around and tear it up. On a
> > |> required 1/4" mortise, that was two passes per mortise, times 15 - 18
> > |> pieces....lots of work.
> > |>
> > |> After the second piece, I figured the easier way was to slap my Delta
> dado
> > |> cutter into the TS, and let it "rip". Yeah, there was some set-up
> time,
> > |but
> > |> it was a little less, and I could cut as deep as I wanted, with one
> pass
> > |and
> > |> consistent results.
> > |>
> > |> I have to say that the cut on the router was cleaner, but with that
> many
> > |> mortises to do, it was easier with the dado, and the results were
> > |> acceptable. The dado worked better on this project, but I'll do the
> > |router
> > |> if I there's an appearance requirement. The big learning lesson for
me
> > |was
> > |> that I could only take a small amount of cut each time with the
router
> > |> set-up.
> > |>
> > |> Nick B
> > |>
> > |> "Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > |> news:[email protected]...
> > |> > Hi.
> > |> >
> > |> > Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados,
> mortises,
> > |> > and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been
> > |practicing
> > |> > for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated
> > |because
> > |> I
> > |> > couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises.
> After
> > |> going
> > |> > through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my
> problem.
> > |> My
> > |> > homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way
> around...
> > |> > maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of
> each
> > |> board
> > |> > causing the next to be off.
> > |> >
> > |> > Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just
> want
> > |> to
> > |> > know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my
> > |router?
> > |> >
> > |> > Thanks,
> > |> > Mike
> > |> >
> > |> >
> > |> >
> > |>
> > |>
> > |
> >
>
>
Are you using feather boards to secure the piece to the table and to the
fence?
Brian.
"Mike W." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi.
>
> Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been practicing
> for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated because
I
> couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After
going
> through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem.
My
> homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
> maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each
board
> causing the next to be off.
>
> Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want
to
> know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my router?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>
This guy knows his stuff on the M&T drill:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00011.asp
The type of router bit you use has a GREAT deal to do with
the results. Are you using a spiral bit ????
Mike W. wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Im just interested to see whether anyone here does any dados, mortises,
> and/or tenons with their router and router table? I have been practicing
> for the past few days without luck. I was getting very frustrated because I
> couldnt get consistent results on the centering of my mortises. After going
> through quite a few cheap poplar boards I think I have found my problem. My
> homemade router table's insert 'hole' is a bit big all the way around...
> maybe a 16th of an inch or so. And it would 'jerk' at the end of each board
> causing the next to be off.
>
> Anyways, any advice or 'yes' or 'no' answers would be good. I just want to
> know whether I'm trying to beat a square into a round hole with my router?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>