Hey all,
I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
Paul Sobon asks:
>I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
>my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
>and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
>planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
>out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
>joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
>SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
McFeely's. www.mcfeelys.com
You need either brass or stainless and stainless is a lot stronger. It is not
rust you have to worry about with oak, but the reaction between the steel and
tannin. That creates a really ugly black stain. Stainless steel prevents that,
as do brass and bronze screws.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
"Charlie Self" writes:
> You need either brass or stainless and stainless is a lot stronger. It is
not
> rust you have to worry about with oak, but the reaction between the steel
and
> tannin. That creates a really ugly black stain. Stainless steel prevents
that,
> as do brass and bronze screws.
SFWIW, IMHO, brass fasteners are about as useless as breasts on a boar hog
compared to bronze.
This is particularity true of marine applications where salt water leaches
out the zinc in brass creating a worthless device.
Both are similar in price.
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
"Charlie Self" writes:
> I've used brass screws in such chairs before, and had no problems.
Probably the
> quality of the screw matters a good bit, as brass is a soft metal that is
> fairly weak. I've worked very little with bronze--I think the screw in my
left
> knee is some kind of a bronze alloy, but I'm not sure--but have heard
nothing
> but good things about them. The basic point, though, is that ferrous metal
> fasteners that don't have nickel added aren't worth using with oak. But we
were
> talking of lawn furniture: If that gets enough salt water to leach the
zinc
> from brass, I dunno want to sit in that spot anyway.
Be surprised how often you will find that type of chair near the beach.
The hardware store closest to my boat building project stocks bronze
fasteners and sells them by the piece, but then again I'm in a boat building
area.
Both McFeely & Jamestown sell bronze fasteners.
My guess is that Jamestown as a larger selection.
HTH.
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
Lew Hodgett writes:
>
>SFWIW, IMHO, brass fasteners are about as useless as breasts on a boar hog
>compared to bronze.
>
>This is particularity true of marine applications where salt water leaches
>out the zinc in brass creating a worthless device.
>
>Both are similar in price.
I've used brass screws in such chairs before, and had no problems. Probably the
quality of the screw matters a good bit, as brass is a soft metal that is
fairly weak. I've worked very little with bronze--I think the screw in my left
knee is some kind of a bronze alloy, but I'm not sure--but have heard nothing
but good things about them. The basic point, though, is that ferrous metal
fasteners that don't have nickel added aren't worth using with oak. But we were
talking of lawn furniture: If that gets enough salt water to leach the zinc
from brass, I dunno want to sit in that spot anyway.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
Dissent, and purely speculation, but with the corrosive power of the
tannins, zinc might be better in the end. Not as if you'll see'em after
all.
"PSobon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
if im reading you right, it doesnt much matter what kind of screw you use.
its going to be encapsulated in wood and glue. if water gets in there you
got worse problems than the screws.
randy
"PSobon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
xrongor responds:
>if im reading you right, it doesnt much matter what kind of screw you use.
>its going to be encapsulated in wood and glue. if water gets in there you
>got worse problems than the screws.
There is always some water in wood. He needs a screw that is made of a material
that doesn't react with tannins.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> xrongor responds:
>
> >if im reading you right, it doesnt much matter what kind of screw you
use.
> >its going to be encapsulated in wood and glue. if water gets in there
you
> >got worse problems than the screws.
>
> There is always some water in wood. He needs a screw that is made of a
material
> that doesn't react with tannins.
ah.... never thought about something in the wood itself eating the screw...
randy
Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Dragon Breath <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 11:21:10 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >[email protected] (PSobon) wrote:
> > >> My only problem with SS screws is that I don't have a local source
> > >> for them.
> > >
> > >http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
> > >
> > >Every imaginable kind of screw, with good prices and good service.
>
> Spammer??? I beg your pardon. I'm just a happy customer.
I must concur with Roy. I am the original poster and I wouldn't
consider the act of pointing a fellow wrecker to a resource to be
spam. In fact, I was not aware of this company and have placed an
order with them because of Roy's headsup. I suppose in some cases
there might be a fine line between useful information and spam but
Roy's post falls squarely on the useful side.
On 2 Jun 2004 08:06:36 -0700, [email protected] (PSobon) wrote:
>Hey all,
>I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
>my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
>and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
>planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
>out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
>joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
>SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
The SS screws won't blacken the wood like the zinc-coated ones. A
boat supply shop will have all kinds of SS hardware.
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 11:21:10 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (PSobon) wrote:
>> My only problem with SS screws is that I don't have a local source
>> for them.
>
>http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
>
>Every imaginable kind of screw, with good prices and good service.
Norm Dresner wrote:
>
> Going into volume production, I'd seriously consider Zinc to reduce
> cost (and pass any corrosion problems on to the consumer ;->) but for
> just a few for my own use I'd definitely want to prevent any problems
> later in life. Go SS
>
> Norm
So, if yo are going to make a lot of something, you should use second rate
materials? Do you happen to be a buyer for WalMart?
--
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
"PSobon" writes:
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
304 S/S is OK, 316L would be much better; however, my choice would be
silicon bronze.
All are available from Jamestown Distributors.
BTW, resorcinol glue and white oak were made for each other. Would be far
superior to poly glue.
HTH
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
>
Use the stainless. Well worth it. Try McFeelys for them:
www.mcfeelys.com
--
Regards,
Rick
(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)
Why not skip the metal screws and just use dowels? Glue them. Might as
well use the same wood for dowels as the rest of the project. That way
all parts are of homogenous wood. Using a rigid metal fastener in an
outdoor wood project joint is nearly always the place where, over time,
flex occurs. When you have a rigid material like metal and a giving
material like wood , over time that is where the joint almost always
fails. As mentioned dissimiliar materials like wood and metal interact
on a chemical level with both suffering degradation weakening the joint.
more info on dowels at www.ilovewood.com click on Alburnams Archive in
the left column , then scroll down to #44
PSobon wrote:
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
Big River writes:
>Using a rigid metal fastener in an
>outdoor wood project joint is nearly always the place where, over time,
>flex occurs. When you have a rigid material like metal and a giving
>material like wood , over time that is where the joint almost always
>fails. As mentioned dissimiliar materials like wood and metal interact
>on a chemical level with both suffering degradation weakening the joint.
>
What? Let's talk about expansion and contraction in a different grain direction
with dowels. ANd it is not dissimilar materials reacting, as most woods won't
react too badly with steel screws (though they will eventually rust), but oaks
react horribly, turning black (which doesn't seem to harm holding power all
that much: I had to discard a 20+ year old white oak picnic table a few years
ago, but mostly because I was sick of lifting it to cut grass. It had
galvanized nails holding it together and was still structurally fine).
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
"PSobon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
Going into volume production, I'd seriously consider Zinc to reduce cost
(and pass any corrosion problems on to the consumer ;->) but for just a few
for my own use I'd definitely want to prevent any problems later in life.
Go SS
Norm
Any of the suggestions offered on this thread would work, but I'd like to
address something else:
For your sake usse marine varnish if the chair will be exposed. Use at least
6 coats (seriously). Although marine varnish is the recommended article
because unlike standard finishes it flexes with temperature changes, even it
will allow moisture to penetrate. I gave my Adirondacks three coats and it
wasn't enough-- the nice finish went TU in about 2 years when fungus showed
up. We finally painted the things. And the glider needs a complete refinish,
so it stays indoors.
Bob Schmall
"PSobon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Norm Dresner wrote:
>
> >
> > Going into volume production, I'd seriously consider Zinc to reduce
> > cost (and pass any corrosion problems on to the consumer ;->) but for
> > just a few for my own use I'd definitely want to prevent any problems
> > later in life. Go SS
> >
> > Norm
>
> So, if yo are going to make a lot of something, you should use second rate
> materials? Do you happen to be a buyer for WalMart?
>
Nah, just a cynical consumer.
I used coated deck screws on a Port Orford cedar chair...no stains and they
look fine. Cheap too (relative to SS)
Good luck
Rob
--
http://www.robswoodworking.com
"PSobon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
Rob Stokes writes:
>I used coated deck screws on a Port Orford cedar chair...no stains and they
>look fine. Cheap too (relative to SS)
IME, no matter what a screw is coated with, it eventually fails because the
coating fails. Case in point: I built a redwood deck about 15 years ago using
the best quality galvanized screws available at the time. When we get back to
Virginia in a couple weeks, a large part of my early work will involve
replacing boards in that deck where rusty screws have caused board ends to rot.
Not about to use redwood this time, either. It turns black (mildew) in
Virginia.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
IME, no matter what a screw is coated with, it eventually fails
because the
> coating fails. Case in point: I built a redwood deck about 15 years ago using
> the best quality galvanized screws available at the time. When we get back to
> Virginia in a couple weeks, a large part of my early work will involve
> replacing boards in that deck where rusty screws have caused board ends to rot.
I've had pretty much the same experience with coated deck screws, but
they didn't last 15 years. Some of them only lasted 5 before they
rusted to the point where they broke.
I've made probably a dozen Adirondack Chairs from cypress; some are
now 7 years old, constantly exposed to weather. Used stainless steel
square drive screws I got at the local Home Depot. Countersunk the
heads and left them exposed. Never a problem. I figure the screws
cost less than $5 per chair.
DonkeyHody
"Even an old blind hog finds an acorn every now and then."
In article <[email protected]>,
Dragon Breath <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 11:21:10 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (PSobon) wrote:
> >> My only problem with SS screws is that I don't have a local source
> >> for them.
> >
> >http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
> >
> >Every imaginable kind of screw, with good prices and good service.
Spammer??? I beg your pardon. I'm just a happy customer.
[email protected] (PSobon) wrote:
> My only problem with SS screws is that I don't have a local source
> for them.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
Every imaginable kind of screw, with good prices and good service.
PSobon wrote:
> Hey all,
> I'm about to start assembly of an Adirondack chair and am questioning
> my choice of fasteners. I can easily get standard zinc coated screws
> and am planning on plugging all screw holes with wood. I am also
> planning to glue all joints with a poly type glue. The chair is made
> out of white oak. I am mostly wondering if water that gets in the
> joints might rust the screws and stain the wood. My only problem with
> SS screws is that I don't have a local source for them.
Spend the few extra pennies and get the SS. You can get them from McFeelys
or Lee Valley. I like them so much I use them even where SS it not a
requirement.
--
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome