This weekend wasn't a good one for me and the Unisaw. The darn thing kicked
back twice. The first was my fault, the second, I don't know.
Saturday, I was building some drawers. I had removed the guard and splitter
in order to cut some thin dados for the drawer bottoms. Next I attempted to
cut a 4X8 sheet of 1/4" Luann for the bottom. I thought its just light
weight Luann. First cut, an approximately 2'X4' cut off the end. Whamm!
The 2X4 sheet went sailing across the room, Bam!!, stuck in the window
casing behind my saw. Nice M&T embedding in the wall. Luckily I was
standing to the left of the blade and it missed me.
Sunday morning, gluing up the drawers, I needed a 4"X6" block of 3/4 ply.
Guard in place, I attempted to cut the piece off a 12" piece of scrap.
(Should have used the miter saw). Still shaken from yesterday, I stood well
to the left of the line of fire. Using the fence on the right and push
stick, I started the cut. The piece on the right between the blade and
fence fed through fine. However, the scrap on the left some how turned
before reaching the anti-kickback teeth, and Whamm!! again.. This time the
4"X6" block nailed me a couple of inches below the belly button. Damn that
hurt.
Now I have a healthy respect (fear) of the table saw. I thought this was
suppose to be fun?
Gary
"Gary" <[email protected]> wrote> Exactly. I was concentrating on
the piece to the right, being squeezed
> between the blade and fence. I may have pushed from both sides; push
stick
> on the right, hand on the left. I just recall seeing the piece's back
> corner next to the blade twist in, in between the blade and splitter, and
> the come flying at me faster than the "Big Unit's" fastball.
I think this emphasises the difference between a splitter and a riving
knife. The latter is shaped to follow the curvature of the blade and can be
fitted so that it is very close to the uprunning teeth.
Of course there is always a risk of closing a kerf onto the plate of the saw
until the forward end reaches the riving knife.
The push stick needs to be applied as near in line with the saw blade as
possible, this greatly reduces the tendency for the workpiece to turn,
although this is more difficult if people follow the (unnecessary?) advice
to stand well to the left.
Apart from very heavy pieces, is there any need for pressure from the left
hand?
More on Circular Sawbench Safety on my web site.
Jeff G
--
Jeff Gorman - West Yorkshire - UK
Username for email is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
Website - amgron.clara.net
Mon, Aug 2, 2004, 12:39pm [email protected] (Gary) says:
This weekend wasn't a good one <snip> First cut, an approximately 2'X4'
cut off the end. Whamm! <snip>
I've been pondering your tale, since I first read it. I've cut
plywood like that plenty of times, even as little as 2" X 48", with no
problems. So, I'm not sure what you did. Maybe angled it a bit. I
always make very sure it is firm against the fence. The largest I've
ever cut tho, was 4'X4', that's as large as I thinkg I can safely handle
by myself. I'm thinking you should have used a circular saw, and a
straight-edge. I do that a lot, rather than use my saw.
Sunday morning, gluing up the drawers, I needed a 4"X6" block of 3/4
ply. Guard in place, I attempted to cut the piece off a 12" piece of
scrap. <snip>
Done that plenty of times too, with no prob. However, I also
usually just stuff that size on the scrollsaw, unless I need an
absolutely straight cut. Maybe the bandsaw, but prefer the scrollsaw.
However, when I do use the tablesaw, on a piece near that size, I use
two pushsticks, not one. I keep my fingers well away from the whirly
part. I "have" had cut pieces floating on the table top, but never had
any kick back, because I use a push stick to flick it off the top.
JOAT
The highway of fear is the road to defeat.
- Bazooka Joe
JERUSALEM RIDGE http://www.banjer.com/midi/jerridge.mid
I had a nice kickback i posted a month or so ago. I push the right side
though and left hand gingerly helps push piece through. I usually move my
left hand in more as I move through the cut to keep from binding on the
blade. You might of pushed with the left hand causing the piece to close the
gap.
Anyway FWIW I hate cutting sheet material on the TS and I dont "crosscut"
without a sled.
Rich
"Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This weekend wasn't a good one for me and the Unisaw. The darn thing
kicked
> back twice. The first was my fault, the second, I don't know.
>
> Saturday, I was building some drawers. I had removed the guard and
splitter
> in order to cut some thin dados for the drawer bottoms. Next I attempted
to
> cut a 4X8 sheet of 1/4" Luann for the bottom. I thought its just light
> weight Luann. First cut, an approximately 2'X4' cut off the end.
Whamm!
> The 2X4 sheet went sailing across the room, Bam!!, stuck in the window
> casing behind my saw. Nice M&T embedding in the wall. Luckily I was
> standing to the left of the blade and it missed me.
>
> Sunday morning, gluing up the drawers, I needed a 4"X6" block of 3/4 ply.
> Guard in place, I attempted to cut the piece off a 12" piece of scrap.
> (Should have used the miter saw). Still shaken from yesterday, I stood
well
> to the left of the line of fire. Using the fence on the right and push
> stick, I started the cut. The piece on the right between the blade and
> fence fed through fine. However, the scrap on the left some how turned
> before reaching the anti-kickback teeth, and Whamm!! again.. This time
the
> 4"X6" block nailed me a couple of inches below the belly button. Damn
that
> hurt.
>
> Now I have a healthy respect (fear) of the table saw. I thought this was
> suppose to be fun?
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:Q3xPc.145
> What am I missing? In this case the 4 x 6 cutoff was on the left of the
> blade and loose. If you used the miter, wouldn't that just shift the
scrap
> to the right of the blade? Or did you mean the miter saw? (assuming you
have
> one)
My mistake. I misread his description and thought the 4x6 piece was in
between the blade and the fence.
I've never heard of a loose piece like that to the left of the blade go
flying, but I suppose it's possible. Not sure how to handle something like
that.
Gary wrote:
>
> This weekend wasn't a good one for me and the Unisaw. The darn thing kicked
> back twice. The first was my fault, the second, I don't know.
>
> Saturday, I was building some drawers. I had removed the guard and splitter
> in order to cut some thin dados for the drawer bottoms. Next I attempted to
> cut a 4X8 sheet of 1/4" Luann for the bottom. I thought its just light
> weight Luann. First cut, an approximately 2'X4' cut off the end. Whamm!
> The 2X4 sheet went sailing across the room, Bam!!, stuck in the window
> casing behind my saw. Nice M&T embedding in the wall. Luckily I was
> standing to the left of the blade and it missed me.
snip
> Now I have a healthy respect (fear) of the table saw. I thought this was
> suppose to be fun?
>
> Gary
On the 1/4" luan ply cut, were you basically making a rip cut
or a cross cut, that is to say, was the long edge on the fence or
the short end? If you were basically doing a cross cut, the
four foot lever arm could have been a contributing factor -
it's hard to get two hands that aren't touching each other to
work synchronously. Doesn't take much different in feed
rate between hands to cause the edge that's supposed to be
firm against the fence to have one end come off the fence.
Another factor may have been the luan. Thin luan sheets
have a tendency to curl or cup, requiring something to
keep the piece ON BOTH SIDES OF THE CUT down on the
table top. If either sideof the cut comes up off the table
it can make contact with the teeth at the back of the
blade - the ones that "kick off" kickbacks. Most of us
know better than to rip a cupped or twisted board but
don't seem to worry about cupped ply.
charlie b
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:39:03 -0400, "Gary" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>This weekend wasn't a good one for me and the Unisaw. The darn thing kicked
>back twice. The first was my fault, the second, I don't know.
[snip]
You may want to check out Charlie B's site:
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/KickBack1.html
Excellent reading on kickback, why it happens and how to
prevent it.
--
John, in Minnesota
You HAVE to look at the fence, and keep the wood against the fence as it
enters the blade. Problem at start is you look at the start of the fence,
not where the cut is starting. Same problem comes near the end when you
forget that it's the piece between blade and fence that is advanced, while
the other side follows.
I can almost hear Norm now. He says it every time.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
Next I attempted
> to
> > cut a 4X8 sheet of 1/4" Luann for the bottom. I thought its just light
> > weight Luann. First cut, an approximately 2'X4' cut off the end.
> Whamm!
> > The 2X4 sheet went sailing across the room, Bam!!, stuck in the window
> > casing behind my saw. Nice M&T embedding in the wall. Luckily I was
> > standing to the left of the blade and it missed me.
>
> If your fence is not parallel to the blade or the edge of the panel
against
> the fence is not straight this can happen. In addition I always hold the
> keeper piece down with my hands. I have prevented several kickbacks by
> holding the panel down and letting the blade chew into the panel.
>
> > Sunday morning, gluing up the drawers, I needed a 4"X6" block of 3/4
ply.
> > Guard in place, I attempted to cut the piece off a 12" piece of scrap.
> > (Should have used the miter saw). Still shaken from yesterday, I stood
> well
> > to the left of the line of fire. Using the fence on the right and push
> > stick, I started the cut. The piece on the right between the blade and
> > fence fed through fine. However, the scrap on the left some how turned
> > before reaching the anti-kickback teeth, and Whamm!! again.. This time
> the
> > 4"X6" block nailed me a couple of inches below the belly button. Damn
> that
> > hurt.
>
> I read that your waste piece flew back. For kick back to happen the wood
> has to be held in place as it is struck by the blade. It must "bind" if
you
> will. It takes very little resistance to cause a bind. Quite possibly
the
> waste piece became bound by the guard and the guard held it in place as
the
> blade grabbed it.
>
>
Pushsticks are best, because they keep you in control where the action is.
Not to mention that a deflection of a degree or so on a three-foot long
piece is likely to send it running back up the blade when it binds.
"Elwood Dowd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone else use homemade featherboards and pull the last foot
> through? I find that not only do the boards eliminate any premature
> kickback, I simply feel a lot better pulling from the other side.
> Particularly with long thin stock.
>
> I haven't noticed any real accuracy errors resulting from this, though
> it is possible there are some. But then my saw is a $99 contractor's
> special, so my criteria for excellence are bit less extreme than some.
>
> I discovered this after an "episode" that I still have a thin scar from.
You can avoid kickback altogether for cutting 4" x 6" pieces... That
machine sitting in the corner with the sawdust all over it is called a
bandsaw... LOL
"Elwood Dowd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone else use homemade featherboards and pull the last foot
> through? I find that not only do the boards eliminate any premature
> kickback, I simply feel a lot better pulling from the other side.
> Particularly with long thin stock.
>
> I haven't noticed any real accuracy errors resulting from this, though
> it is possible there are some. But then my saw is a $99 contractor's
> special, so my criteria for excellence are bit less extreme than some.
>
> I discovered this after an "episode" that I still have a thin scar from.
"Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This weekend wasn't a good one for me and the Unisaw. The darn thing
kicked
> back twice. The first was my fault, the second, I don't know.
>
> Saturday, I was building some drawers. I had removed the guard and
splitter
> in order to cut some thin dados for the drawer bottoms. Next I attempted
to
> cut a 4X8 sheet of 1/4" Luann for the bottom. I thought its just light
> weight Luann. First cut, an approximately 2'X4' cut off the end.
Whamm!
> The 2X4 sheet went sailing across the room, Bam!!, stuck in the window
> casing behind my saw. Nice M&T embedding in the wall. Luckily I was
> standing to the left of the blade and it missed me.
If your fence is not parallel to the blade or the edge of the panel against
the fence is not straight this can happen. In addition I always hold the
keeper piece down with my hands. I have prevented several kickbacks by
holding the panel down and letting the blade chew into the panel.
> Sunday morning, gluing up the drawers, I needed a 4"X6" block of 3/4 ply.
> Guard in place, I attempted to cut the piece off a 12" piece of scrap.
> (Should have used the miter saw). Still shaken from yesterday, I stood
well
> to the left of the line of fire. Using the fence on the right and push
> stick, I started the cut. The piece on the right between the blade and
> fence fed through fine. However, the scrap on the left some how turned
> before reaching the anti-kickback teeth, and Whamm!! again.. This time
the
> 4"X6" block nailed me a couple of inches below the belly button. Damn
that
> hurt.
I read that your waste piece flew back. For kick back to happen the wood
has to be held in place as it is struck by the blade. It must "bind" if you
will. It takes very little resistance to cause a bind. Quite possibly the
waste piece became bound by the guard and the guard held it in place as the
blade grabbed it.
Does anyone else use homemade featherboards and pull the last foot
through? I find that not only do the boards eliminate any premature
kickback, I simply feel a lot better pulling from the other side.
Particularly with long thin stock.
I haven't noticed any real accuracy errors resulting from this, though
it is possible there are some. But then my saw is a $99 contractor's
special, so my criteria for excellence are bit less extreme than some.
I discovered this after an "episode" that I still have a thin scar from.
"Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> Exactly. I was concentrating on the piece to the right, being squeezed
> between the blade and fence. I may have pushed from both sides; push
stick
> on the right, hand on the left. I just recall seeing the piece's back
> corner next to the blade twist in, in between the blade and splitter, and
> the come flying at me faster than the "Big Unit's" fastball.
Do not push from both sides as the cut is nearing completion. Let the waste
side go where it will. Your only concern is to keep the confined piece of
wood between the fence and the blade going in a straight line and not
binding.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Well, you've already given yourself the answer to what you should have
done
> with the second piece. It's always advisable to use the mitre for pieces
of
> wood that are not any bigger than the diameter of the saw blade. That's
> asking for it to twist in place and go flying as you found out. Hopefully,
> you're not in anymore pain and you've got some knowledge that has a good
> chance of preventing you from experiencing more of the same.
What am I missing? In this case the 4 x 6 cutoff was on the left of the
blade and loose. If you used the miter, wouldn't that just shift the scrap
to the right of the blade? Or did you mean the miter saw? (assuming you have
one)
Ed
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > This weekend wasn't a good one for me and the Unisaw. The darn thing
> kicked
> > back twice. The first was my fault, the second, I don't know.
> >
> > Saturday, I was building some drawers. I had removed the guard and
> splitter
> > in order to cut some thin dados for the drawer bottoms. Next I
attempted
> to
> > cut a 4X8 sheet of 1/4" Luann for the bottom. I thought its just light
> > weight Luann. First cut, an approximately 2'X4' cut off the end.
> Whamm!
> > The 2X4 sheet went sailing across the room, Bam!!, stuck in the window
> > casing behind my saw. Nice M&T embedding in the wall. Luckily I was
> > standing to the left of the blade and it missed me.
>
> If your fence is not parallel to the blade or the edge of the panel
against
> the fence is not straight this can happen. In addition I always hold the
> keeper piece down with my hands. I have prevented several kickbacks by
> holding the panel down and letting the blade chew into the panel.
>
> > Sunday morning, gluing up the drawers, I needed a 4"X6" block of 3/4
ply.
> > Guard in place, I attempted to cut the piece off a 12" piece of scrap.
> > (Should have used the miter saw). Still shaken from yesterday, I stood
> well
> > to the left of the line of fire. Using the fence on the right and push
> > stick, I started the cut. The piece on the right between the blade and
> > fence fed through fine. However, the scrap on the left some how turned
> > before reaching the anti-kickback teeth, and Whamm!! again.. This time
> the
> > 4"X6" block nailed me a couple of inches below the belly button. Damn
> that
> > hurt.
>
> I read that your waste piece flew back. For kick back to happen the wood
> has to be held in place as it is struck by the blade. It must "bind" if
you
> will. It takes very little resistance to cause a bind. Quite possibly
the
> waste piece became bound by the guard and the guard held it in place as
the
> blade grabbed it.
>
Exactly. I was concentrating on the piece to the right, being squeezed
between the blade and fence. I may have pushed from both sides; push stick
on the right, hand on the left. I just recall seeing the piece's back
corner next to the blade twist in, in between the blade and splitter, and
the come flying at me faster than the "Big Unit's" fastball.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Q3xPc.145$qM.69@trndny01...
>
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > Well, you've already given yourself the answer to what you should have
> done
> > with the second piece. It's always advisable to use the mitre for pieces
> of
> > wood that are not any bigger than the diameter of the saw blade. That's
> > asking for it to twist in place and go flying as you found out.
Hopefully,
> > you're not in anymore pain and you've got some knowledge that has a good
> > chance of preventing you from experiencing more of the same.
>
> What am I missing? In this case the 4 x 6 cutoff was on the left of the
> blade and loose. If you used the miter, wouldn't that just shift the
scrap
> to the right of the blade? Or did you mean the miter saw? (assuming you
have
> one)
> Ed
>
>
Material wasn't long enough to use the miter. I definitely need to build me
a sled (if I can get up enough nerve to cut one out.)
Gary
"Liam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You can avoid kickback altogether for cutting 4" x 6" pieces... That
> machine sitting in the corner with the sawdust all over it is called a
> bandsaw... LOL
>
That's for darn sure!! And I've got a pretty little Powermatic 14" with
fence, miter, riser and all. I think I'll use it a lot more often in the
future.
Gary
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:39:03 -0400, "Gary" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>This weekend wasn't a good one for me and the Unisaw. The darn thing kicked
>back twice. The first was my fault, the second, I don't know.
>
>Saturday, I was building some drawers. I had removed the guard and splitter
>in order to cut some thin dados for the drawer bottoms. Next I attempted to
>cut a 4X8 sheet of 1/4" Luann for the bottom. I thought its just light
>weight Luann. First cut, an approximately 2'X4' cut off the end. Whamm!
>The 2X4 sheet went sailing across the room, Bam!!, stuck in the window
>casing behind my saw. Nice M&T embedding in the wall. Luckily I was
>standing to the left of the blade and it missed me.
>
>Sunday morning, gluing up the drawers, I needed a 4"X6" block of 3/4 ply.
>Guard in place, I attempted to cut the piece off a 12" piece of scrap.
>(Should have used the miter saw). Still shaken from yesterday, I stood well
>to the left of the line of fire. Using the fence on the right and push
>stick, I started the cut. The piece on the right between the blade and
>fence fed through fine. However, the scrap on the left some how turned
>before reaching the anti-kickback teeth, and Whamm!! again.. This time the
>4"X6" block nailed me a couple of inches below the belly button. Damn that
>hurt.
>
>Now I have a healthy respect (fear) of the table saw. I thought this was
>suppose to be fun?
>
>Gary
>
>
Years ago I was cutting some 1/4" ply, perhaps a 4x4-foot square. The
saw kicked back the ply and made a black-and-blue mark on my thigh.
Lucky for me (and you) it missed the family jewels. Now, I stop and
think to myself, "Is there a safer way to complete this cut?" before
reaching for the ON button. A clear-thinking head is so important.
"Gary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> fence fed through fine. However, the scrap on the left some how turned
> before reaching the anti-kickback teeth, and Whamm!! again.. This time
the
> 4"X6" block nailed me a couple of inches below the belly button. Damn
that
> hurt.
Well, you've already given yourself the answer to what you should have done
with the second piece. It's always advisable to use the mitre for pieces of
wood that are not any bigger than the diameter of the saw blade. That's
asking for it to twist in place and go flying as you found out. Hopefully,
you're not in anymore pain and you've got some knowledge that has a good
chance of preventing you from experiencing more of the same.
"Gary" wrote in message
> Luckily I was
> standing to the left of the blade and it missed me.
> Still shaken from yesterday, I stood well
> to the left of the line of fire.
You see a pattern here?
It I had to guess, and I do, it sounds to me as if you've gotten gun-shy,
and by standing well to the LEFT, are not taking control of the piece
against the fence, thereby allowing a situation to develop that can result
in a kick back.
You've got be firmly in control around a table saw of that size.
If you take care to firmly control the piece between the fence and blade
(i.e., keep constant edge contact with the fence and a firm grip on the
piece), with a well tuned saw you will drastically cut your chances of an
uncontrollable kickback happening.
Just my FWIW tuppence ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I had a nice kickback i posted a month or so ago. I push the right side
> though and left hand gingerly helps push piece through. I usually move my
> left hand in more as I move through the cut to keep from binding on the
> blade. You might of pushed with the left hand causing the piece to close
the
> gap.
Keep your left hand away from the wood as the cut comes within 3 or 4 inches
of completion. You do not need the distraction of looking at where both of
you hands are at. If you don't have the room on the right side for your
hand, make a push stick that will also push down on the top of the work. My
push stick comes in contact with the wood for about 8" on the top side and
1/4" on the back side.
"Elwood Dowd" wrote in message ...
> Does anyone else use homemade featherboards and pull the last foot
> through? I find that not only do the boards eliminate any premature
> kickback, I simply feel a lot better pulling from the other side.
> Particularly with long thin stock.
Color me cautious, but I've always been more than a bit reluctant to let go
of a board mid cut to walk to the other side of a Unisaw and start pulling.
:)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
Swingman responds:
>"Elwood Dowd" wrote in message ...
>> Does anyone else use homemade featherboards and pull the last foot
>> through? I find that not only do the boards eliminate any premature
>> kickback, I simply feel a lot better pulling from the other side.
>> Particularly with long thin stock.
>
>Color me cautious, but I've always been more than a bit reluctant to let go
>of a board mid cut to walk to the other side of a Unisaw and start pulling.
>:)
I'm with you. I saw one person pulling a board through one time. It kicked
back, and cut the daylights out of about three fingers for him as it was jerked
out of his hands.
No thanks.
Charlie Self
"Give me golf clubs, fresh air and a beautiful partner, and you can keep the
clubs and the fresh air." Jack Benny