Jointing boards for tabletop

"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote

: ..............I have started paying a 15 cent premium to get my wood S3S.
I can
: work around and do it without an adequate jointer, but it's worth the
: premium to start out with a square board.

The snag with this approach is that you have to work pretty swiftly before
drying or 'change of skin' (my jargon) cause dimensional and angular changes
(ie going diamond shaped through shrinkage).

Jeff G

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Email address is username@ISP
username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
Website www.amgron.clara.net

"WORSS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top which
> will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever seen.
The
> problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my
life.
> It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue 4
> boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing the
> boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back and
> sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put the
> knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even with
> all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very unacceptable.
> Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any
ideas?
> I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
>
> Bill
>
> I assume you have tried both directions. I find that if I wet the edge
first, with a spray bottle of water, I get much better results.

I know that you said that you are taking only a light cut, but to be sure
zero out the knives and then back off just a little.

In rec.woodworking
Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote:

>Just got through edge jointing about 200 lineal feet of 4/4 and 8/4 stock
>using the aux fence on the TS. The fence is a 42" hunk of 3/4" MDF with a
>shy 1/16" strip of hardwood glued to the outfeed side. Calmped the aux
>fence to the real fence and raised the blade along the edge and flush with
>the outside of the hardwood strip. Some of the stock took up to 4 passes,
>but the final result is perfectly straight 8' long edges. Saw this in a
>Pop Woodworking article and thought I'd give it a try. Love it - straight
>and fast.

Sounds neat, got any pics?

In rec.woodworking
Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Sounds neat, got any pics?
>
>I'll get a couple this afternoon and put 'em on abpf

Great, I'm ready to make one.

In rec.woodworking
"Kevin P. Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Thanks for the pics Doug, this looks like a pretty nifty idea. No reason
>that 1/16" shim on the outfeed side couldn't be laminate or anything
>else either. Maybe I'll give this a try this weekend :-)

Are the pics there? I don't see them yet.

That's why I have started paying a 15 cent premium to get my wood S3S. I can
work around and do it without an adequate jointer, but it's worth the
premium to start out with a square board.


"Mike at American Sycamore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Steps for truing stock.
> >
> > Repost of my stock answer to bi weekly question
> >
****************************************************************************
> > ***********************************
> >
> > Absolutely necessary. A flat face to work from.
> >
> > Joint (make flat and straight) one face (reference face) so you have
> > something to true (reference) the remaining three sides to. Not to be
done
> > on a planer because the feed rollers will push out any warp and it will
> > reappear as the stock exits the planer. For the same reason use very
little
> > down force when jointing.
> >
> > Joint one edge with the reference face against the jointers fence. This
will
> > give you a straight edge that is at 90 degrees to the reference face.
Also
> > an edge to reference the next edge.,
> >
> > Rip a second edge on the table saw with the reference face against the
table
> > and the reference edge against the fence. Try to do it on the jointer
and it
> > will give you a straight edge but not one necessarily parallel to the
first
> > edge.
> >
> > Now you can plane the piece to a proper thickness with the reference
face
> > flat down on the planers feed table. Since the reference face is flat
the
> > planer has no warp to press out so the face being planed will be not
only be
> > flat but parallel to the reference face.
> >
> > The jointer performs the two most critical steps in the process (the
> > reference face and edge) but, with sufficient dicking around, there are
work
> > arounds. but, without the dicking around, the planer will not perform
the
> > functions of a jointer and the jointer will not perform the functions of
a
> > planer.
> >
> > This is excellant advice and is the correct way to square lumber. Not
the only way, but in my opinion and my years of experience is the best and
most effective. Thank you for sharing.
> Mike from American Sycamore
> >
> > --
> > Mike G.
> > [email protected]
> > Heirloom Woods
> > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own
lumber.
> > > The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you
explain
> > it
> > > here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
> > jointer
> > > would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> > > saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I
couldn't
> > do
> > > with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
> > >
> > >
> > > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > > > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
> > > jointer
> > >
> > >
> > >

I *think* I need to thank you for explaining this to my wife. She
visited you one day earlier this month to make a toolbox and learn a
bit about woodworking. Apparently she learned quite a bit and had a
very good time. She called me twice while driving home to tell me how
many tools she used and how much fun it was, plus there was some kind
of giggling coming from the other side of the bed as I was drifting
off around midnight. She is using your course catalog to plan her
vacation. She has started showing a lot more interest in the shop and
my tools, to the extent that she decided the 4" jointer on my
Shopsmith was inadequate, and the Stanleys were too slow. So I am now
re-arranging the shop to make room for a newly-arrived DJ-20. If my
gratefulness seems less than 100%, it is because I think SHE plans to
use it! If you are going to encourage her to move in on my last
refuge, I hope you are planning to offer brewing courses so I can
drown my sorrows while she is making sawdust.


[email protected] (Mike at American Sycamore) wrote:

>Dear Woodworker:
>Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted
>way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the
>jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table
>saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
>school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
>jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint
>your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
>not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer.
>A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
> Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you
>can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional
>quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
>learn how to use it.
>
>Good luck,
>Mike from American Sycamore

WORSS said:

>Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top which
>will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever seen. The
>problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my life.
>It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue 4
>boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing the
>boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back and
>sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put the
>knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even with
>all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very unacceptable.
>Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any ideas?
>I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
>
>Bill

Are you aligning the grain for minimum tearout?
What happens if you use a cabinet scraper (Sandvik makes a $6.00 card)
on the wood after jointing? Just curious.


Greg G.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:04:38 +0000, Dan wrote:


> I can make nice reference face with the planer, but before I got this cute
> little 1960's era 4" craftsman jointer, I couldn't get a decent reference
> *edge* on a board longer than a foot or two.

Just got through edge jointing about 200 lineal feet of 4/4 and 8/4 stock
using the aux fence on the TS. The fence is a 42" hunk of 3/4" MDF with a
shy 1/16" strip of hardwood glued to the outfeed side. Calmped the aux
fence to the real fence and raised the blade along the edge and flush with
the outside of the hardwood strip. Some of the stock took up to 4 passes,
but the final result is perfectly straight 8' long edges. Saw this in a
Pop Woodworking article and thought I'd give it a try. Love it - straight
and fast.

-Doug

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own lumber.
> The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you explain it
> here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a jointer
> would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I couldn't do
> with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
>
Ever try to flatten a board using a table saw?

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I proved for 30 years that I really didn't _need_ one, and figured out many
> ways to overcome the lack thereof ... didn't really miss one till I got one.
> Now that I have a better one than the first one I had, I like having one
> even better.

I know what you mean--I initially got a cheap import model, all shiny
at first but the motor whined rather than purred, frequently broke
down and always gave an unsatisfactory edge, no matter how many times
I ran a board through. I was mad at first when it was stolen, but
after having upgraded to an American model my boards have become much
straighter and I couldn't be happier.

H,

...on a slow day trying any sophomoric diversion rather than working
on the paper I should be writing.

> One more tool that I can leave "set up" in the middle of something can be a
> big time saver. In the middle of cutting and fitting drawer parts drawers,
> with the dado set in the table saw for cutting the back and bottom grooves,
> I need a 32nd off the height of that drawer side ... no problem, one pass
> over the jointer and done in 10 seconds.
>
> A jointer is a luxury? ... maybe. Not at all unlike a wife, if you read the
> first paragraph again with that in mind.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:38:30 +0000, Bruce wrote:

> In rec.woodworking
> Doug Winterburn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Just got through edge jointing about 200 lineal feet of 4/4 and 8/4 stock
>>using the aux fence on the TS. The fence is a 42" hunk of 3/4" MDF with a
>>shy 1/16" strip of hardwood glued to the outfeed side. Calmped the aux
>>fence to the real fence and raised the blade along the edge and flush with
>>the outside of the hardwood strip. Some of the stock took up to 4 passes,
>>but the final result is perfectly straight 8' long edges. Saw this in a
>>Pop Woodworking article and thought I'd give it a try. Love it - straight
>>and fast.
>
> Sounds neat, got any pics?

I'll get a couple this afternoon and put 'em on abpf

-Doug

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:36:26 GMT, "WORSS"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top which
>will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever seen. The
>problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my life.
>It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue 4
>boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing the
>boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back and
>sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put the
>knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even with
>all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very unacceptable.
>Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any ideas?
>I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
>
>Bill
>

Put the *other* end of the board through the jointer. One way is
always better than the other. (Easier to show than to describe.)
Taking a light cut as you did helps too. Inspect the blades under
sunlight and magnification.

Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:36:26 GMT, "WORSS"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top which
> >will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever seen. The
> >problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my life.
> >It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue 4
> >boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing the
> >boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back and
> >sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put the
> >knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even with
> >all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very unacceptable.
> >Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any ideas?
> >I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
> >
> >Bill
> >
>
> Put the *other* end of the board through the jointer. One way is
> always better than the other. (Easier to show than to describe.)
> Taking a light cut as you did helps too. Inspect the blades under
> sunlight and magnification.


Bill,
I encountered the same problem with a bed that I made recently. The
most beautiful curly-stripped-quilted flamed maple ever. My jointer
kept tearing out.
First when I re-sawed the boards they curled up like water
skies. I just about lost it, thinking that the project was doomed and
knowing what the wife had paid for the lumber. I called my good friend
Dave Sochar at Acorn Woodworks and told him of my problem. He
recommended that I use a router and a 1/2" solid carbide spiral up cut
bit. Then I was able to "joint" the edges smooth for the glue up and
using biscuits and alternating the boards. This assisted with the
bowing and pulled the boards into place, hours later I had the flat
panels for the headboard. Working most figured woods is a challange,
but rewarding. Try your router for the edges.
Good Luck,
Mike from American Sycamore
www.americansycamoreretreat.com

"Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own lumber.
> The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you explain it
> here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a jointer
> would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I couldn't do
> with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
>
>
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
> jointer


Dear Woodworker:
Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted
way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the
jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table
saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint
your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer.
A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you
can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional
quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
learn how to use it.

Good luck,
Mike from American Sycamore

"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Sorry Mike I have to disagree with that assertion,
> This to me is just an urban myth in the woodworking field
> A jointer is probably one of the last tools any shop needs if at all
>
> I know that is not going to change any ones mind of which I do not in any
> way attempt to do.
> But it is so wrong to teach that this is the only accepted way to do
> something.
>
> What ever happened to good old thinking of "hell there has to be a different
> way" which may or may not be better but in most cases just as good and not
> to buy a machine that is really not needed.
>
> I have always worked with the attitude of hell there has got to be a better
> easier way to accomplish any thing and still maintain quality,
> I try to instill this in anyone that has worked for me over the years.
>
> I can still take any twisted board and run it thru a planer on a sled and
> get it as flat as anyone can with a jointer.
> There is really nothing carved in stone in this work, try, attempt your
> idea's are not all that weird.
>
> You addressed your post to "Dear Woodworker"
> What does this mean, I would like to hear of yours and anyone else's
> opinions of what does "Woodworker"
> mean.
> Please no quotes from Webster's etc, I can read
>
> Nuff said,
> George
>
>
>
>
> "Mike at American Sycamore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own
> lumber.
> > > The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you
> explain it
> > > here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
> jointer
> > > would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> > > saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I
> couldn't do
> > > with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
> > >
> > >
> > > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > > > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
> > > jointer
> >
> >
> > Dear Woodworker:
> > Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted
> > way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the
> > jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table
> > saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
> > school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
> > jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint
> > your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
> > not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer.
> > A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
> > Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you
> > can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional
> > quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
> > learn how to use it.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Mike from American Sycamore

George:

So I know that this post is in vain, however I will not argue with
Frank Klausz, Andy Rae, Tom Laird, Dale Barnard, Darrell Peart, David
Sochar, and and and etc....all professional wood workers that they
"walk the walk" they just do not talk about woodworking. One can not
argue when you see the work that these people create.

And as far as my greeting, "Dear Woodworker" Is this not
rec.woodworking? A web site for woodworkers?

Good Luck Dear Woodworker,
Mike from American Sycamore

"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Steps for truing stock.
>
> Repost of my stock answer to bi weekly question
> ****************************************************************************
> ***********************************
>
> Absolutely necessary. A flat face to work from.
>
> Joint (make flat and straight) one face (reference face) so you have
> something to true (reference) the remaining three sides to. Not to be done
> on a planer because the feed rollers will push out any warp and it will
> reappear as the stock exits the planer. For the same reason use very little
> down force when jointing.
>
> Joint one edge with the reference face against the jointers fence. This will
> give you a straight edge that is at 90 degrees to the reference face. Also
> an edge to reference the next edge.,
>
> Rip a second edge on the table saw with the reference face against the table
> and the reference edge against the fence. Try to do it on the jointer and it
> will give you a straight edge but not one necessarily parallel to the first
> edge.
>
> Now you can plane the piece to a proper thickness with the reference face
> flat down on the planers feed table. Since the reference face is flat the
> planer has no warp to press out so the face being planed will be not only be
> flat but parallel to the reference face.
>
> The jointer performs the two most critical steps in the process (the
> reference face and edge) but, with sufficient dicking around, there are work
> arounds. but, without the dicking around, the planer will not perform the
> functions of a jointer and the jointer will not perform the functions of a
> planer.
>
> This is excellant advice and is the correct way to square lumber. Not the only way, but in my opinion and my years of experience is the best and most effective. Thank you for sharing.
Mike from American Sycamore
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own lumber.
> > The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you explain
> it
> > here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
> jointer
> > would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> > saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I couldn't
> do
> > with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
> >
> >
> > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
> > jointer
> >
> >
> >

I have no Idea who these people are.
Are they believer's in the Jointer myth?
That does not mean that they cannot produce good work,
They are entitled to their beliefs, I wouldn't take that from them or even
try.
What is a pity is that you are teaching people to close their minds to a
method that is absolutely "not" the only way to accomplish a particular
task. Or that it is even all that necessary in the first place.

I'm not a follower, I keep an open mind to all new ideas, and innovations.
And try different things even against the so called only one way methods.

My work has always spoke for me.
And as far as "Woodworker" I was pretty sure you had no idea what the name
implies.

George


"Mike at American Sycamore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Sorry Mike I have to disagree with that assertion,
> > This to me is just an urban myth in the woodworking field
> > A jointer is probably one of the last tools any shop needs if at all
> >
> > I know that is not going to change any ones mind of which I do not in
any
> > way attempt to do.
> > But it is so wrong to teach that this is the only accepted way to do
> > something.
> >
> > What ever happened to good old thinking of "hell there has to be a
different
> > way" which may or may not be better but in most cases just as good and
not
> > to buy a machine that is really not needed.
> >
> > I have always worked with the attitude of hell there has got to be a
better
> > easier way to accomplish any thing and still maintain quality,
> > I try to instill this in anyone that has worked for me over the years.
> >
> > I can still take any twisted board and run it thru a planer on a sled
and
> > get it as flat as anyone can with a jointer.
> > There is really nothing carved in stone in this work, try, attempt your
> > idea's are not all that weird.
> >
> > You addressed your post to "Dear Woodworker"
> > What does this mean, I would like to hear of yours and anyone else's
> > opinions of what does "Woodworker"
> > mean.
> > Please no quotes from Webster's etc, I can read
> >
> > Nuff said,
> > George
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike at American Sycamore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own
> > lumber.
> > > > The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you
> > explain it
> > > > here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
> > jointer
> > > > would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> > > > saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I
> > couldn't do
> > > > with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > > > > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have
a
> > > > jointer
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Woodworker:
> > > Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted
> > > way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the
> > > jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table
> > > saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
> > > school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
> > > jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint
> > > your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
> > > not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer.
> > > A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
> > > Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you
> > > can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional
> > > quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
> > > learn how to use it.
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > > Mike from American Sycamore
>
> George:
>
> So I know that this post is in vain, however I will not argue with
> Frank Klausz, Andy Rae, Tom Laird, Dale Barnard, Darrell Peart, David
> Sochar, and and and etc....all professional wood workers that they
> "walk the walk" they just do not talk about woodworking. One can not
> argue when you see the work that these people create.
>
> And as far as my greeting, "Dear Woodworker" Is this not
> rec.woodworking? A web site for woodworkers?
>
> Good Luck Dear Woodworker,
> Mike from American Sycamore

In article <[email protected]>,
Poseidon <[email protected]> wrote:
>Since you are on the subject... I have been in the market for a 6" jointer
>and have recently considered that an 8" jointer might be a smarter buy. My
>planned projects are mainly furniture (A queen bedroom set for my daughter,
>dressers, tables, etc..) I would classify my woodworking skills as moderate,
>and am restarting this hobby after a few years hiatus. The 6"/8" jointers I
>have looked at are of the Grizzly line. Any thoughts?
>

If you can swing the price difference then an 8" is definately the way
to go. That's not to say a hobbiest can't get by just fine with a 6".
If your budget dictates a 6" or nothing then go for the 6". If the
price difference won't hurt you then go with the 8".

The 8" Grizzly is a real steal. I've heard nothing but praise for it.
I have the Geetech from Sunhill and they look like the same machine.

--
Scott Post [email protected] http://home.insightbb.com/~sepost/

Why eve joint the edge
Cut them on the table saw alternate the boards face up and face down



"Alan Bierbaum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> After you joint them; run them through a well adjusted table saw (WW II
or
> equal blade) and you will be able to edge glue without problems. Just
take
> enough off with the table saw to get rid of the tear out.
>
> --
> Alan Bierbaum
>
> Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
> Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
> Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html
>
>
> "WORSS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top
which
> > will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever seen.
> The
> > problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my
> life.
> > It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue 4
> > boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing the
> > boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back
and
> > sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put the
> > knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even
with
> > all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very unacceptable.
> > Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any
> ideas?
> > I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
>
>

I have tried running the boards through in both directions. There was very
little difference between the two directions.....it is really hard to tell
what direction this grain is going!.

I was using a smoothing plane on the face (not edge) of the drawer front.
It was very tough going but I was able to remove any problems on the surface
with a scraper and it worked just fine. However, there is no way to use a
scraper on the edge...as the previous poster mentioned.

Thanks,
Bill


<Greg G.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WORSS said:
>
> >Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top which
> >will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever seen.
The
> >problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my
life.
> >It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue 4
> >boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing the
> >boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back and
> >sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put the
> >knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even
with
> >all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very unacceptable.
> >Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any
ideas?
> >I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
> >
> >Bill
>
> Are you aligning the grain for minimum tearout?
> What happens if you use a cabinet scraper (Sandvik makes a $6.00 card)
> on the wood after jointing? Just curious.
>
>
> Greg G.

No Jig just a 8' straight edge and 10' straight edge If i need something
longer i just use any straight edge i have a make what i need.
I just hold the two and run them thru the saw together
"Alan W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:45:00 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > >I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
jointer
> >
> > Bridger wrote:
> >
> > before I had a jointer that's how I did it. now I have a jointer and
> > that's what I use. much better
>
> I find with my WWII the edge to be better than hand planing if I have
> reversing grain on the piece I am planing (purpleheart currently). I
> would think once you flatten the face with your hand plane and then
> run the board through the TS you're good to go. Did you use some
> short of those metal jointer clamps or make up a jig on your own?
>
> Alan

Thanks Mike, my pleasure.

And, as we all know, there is almost always at least three ways to skin a
cat in woodworking and that is just as true for this process.

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
This is excellant advice and is the correct way to square lumber. Not the
only way, but in my opinion and my years of experience is the best and most
effective. Thank you for sharing.

Mmmm, a bold remark. Possibly, so I will qualify it a bit.

You must have a flat face in order to have something to reference the other
sides too. This job is best accomplished on a jointer rather then a planer ,
a tool not designed for the task, without some Mickey mousing with shims,
jigs or what ever. The notion that one can accurately and consistently
develop a flat reference face using a thickness planer and making light cuts
is hog wash. Sometimes you get lucky mostly you don't because it still
requires a fair amount of downward pressure from the feed rollers to get the
stock to feed through the planer.

All in all, you want to do the job quickly and accurately the jointer is the
tool to use. It is what the tool was designed for..

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bridger do you always make a statement about a subject without
> understanding it ????
>
> Mikes Remark
> "You must face joint
> your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
> not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer. "
>
> Now that is a pretty bold statement that is not true never has been and
> never will be.
> Anyone believing it is entitled to their beliefs and as I said in MY posts
I
> am not trying to change anyone's mind about anything.

I proved for 30 years that I really didn't _need_ one, and figured out many
ways to overcome the lack thereof ... didn't really miss one till I got one.
Now that I have a better one than the first one I had, I like having one
even better.

One more tool that I can leave "set up" in the middle of something can be a
big time saver. In the middle of cutting and fitting drawer parts drawers,
with the dado set in the table saw for cutting the back and bottom grooves,
I need a 32nd off the height of that drawer side ... no problem, one pass
over the jointer and done in 10 seconds.

A jointer is a luxury? ... maybe. Not at all unlike a wife, if you read the
first paragraph again with that in mind.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/23/03

"George M. Kazaka" wrote in message
> Sorry Mike I have to disagree with that assertion,
> This to me is just an urban myth in the woodworking field
> A jointer is probably one of the last tools any shop needs if at all

Sorry Mike I have to disagree with that assertion,
This to me is just an urban myth in the woodworking field
A jointer is probably one of the last tools any shop needs if at all

I know that is not going to change any ones mind of which I do not in any
way attempt to do.
But it is so wrong to teach that this is the only accepted way to do
something.

What ever happened to good old thinking of "hell there has to be a different
way" which may or may not be better but in most cases just as good and not
to buy a machine that is really not needed.

I have always worked with the attitude of hell there has got to be a better
easier way to accomplish any thing and still maintain quality,
I try to instill this in anyone that has worked for me over the years.

I can still take any twisted board and run it thru a planer on a sled and
get it as flat as anyone can with a jointer.
There is really nothing carved in stone in this work, try, attempt your
idea's are not all that weird.

You addressed your post to "Dear Woodworker"
What does this mean, I would like to hear of yours and anyone else's
opinions of what does "Woodworker"
mean.
Please no quotes from Webster's etc, I can read

Nuff said,
George




"Mike at American Sycamore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own
lumber.
> > The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you
explain it
> > here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
jointer
> > would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> > saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I
couldn't do
> > with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
> >
> >
> > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
> > jointer
>
>
> Dear Woodworker:
> Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted
> way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the
> jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table
> saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
> school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
> jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint
> your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
> not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer.
> A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
> Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you
> can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional
> quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
> learn how to use it.
>
> Good luck,
> Mike from American Sycamore

He needs to joint one edge to be straight and square to the faces to
reference off the table saw fence, in order to cut the other edge parallel.

--
Brian
www.wood-workers.com/users/lavoie


"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why eve joint the edge
> Cut them on the table saw alternate the boards face up and face down
>
>
>
> "Alan Bierbaum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > After you joint them; run them through a well adjusted table saw (WW II
> or
> > equal blade) and you will be able to edge glue without problems. Just
> take
> > enough off with the table saw to get rid of the tear out.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Bierbaum
> >
> > Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
> > Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
> > Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html
> >
> >
> > "WORSS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top
> which
> > > will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever
seen.
> > The
> > > problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my
> > life.
> > > It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue
4
> > > boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing
the
> > > boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back
> and
> > > sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put
the
> > > knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even
> with
> > > all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very
unacceptable.
> > > Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any
> > ideas?
> > > I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

On Mon 29 Dec 2003 11:58:33a, "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote
in news:[email protected]:

> Make a fool of myself ----Maybe to you and maybe to some others.
> But I do believe that most understand what I have been saying
>

I agree with you on the planer issue but I can't agree that it's a make-or-
break issue for a teacher. Mike has added a lot of knowledge to this group.
I disagree with him on one point but I can't fault his knowledge just for
that. I can't think of a teacher I've ever had, met, or seen on TV who I've
agreed with on everything. That includes Frank, David, and a whole lot of
experts who put my piddling work to shame. It just means there's more than
one way to do it.

I can make nice reference face with the planer, but before I got this cute
little 1960's era 4" craftsman jointer, I couldn't get a decent reference
*edge* on a board longer than a foot or two.

Dan

On Mon 29 Dec 2003 05:08:16p, "Kevin P. Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote
in news:ut2Ib.32757$gN.7498@fed1read05:

> Thanks for the pics Doug, this looks like a pretty nifty idea. No reason
> that 1/16" shim on the outfeed side couldn't be laminate or anything
> else either. Maybe I'll give this a try this weekend :-)

Yeah, me too. :-) Probably not this weekend but I've got no shortage of mdf
or thinstock, and this setup looks pretty easy to make and store.

Dan

You don't say how thick it is, but maybe try a router? An end table sound
like it should be small.

I don't know if it will help or make it worse, but it should do one or the
other....

After you joint them; run them through a well adjusted table saw (WW II or
equal blade) and you will be able to edge glue without problems. Just take
enough off with the table saw to get rid of the tear out.

--
Alan Bierbaum

Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html


"WORSS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top which
> will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever seen.
The
> problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my
life.
> It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue 4
> boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing the
> boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back and
> sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put the
> knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even with
> all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very unacceptable.
> Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any
ideas?
> I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
>
> Bill
>
>

How is the square edge maintained using the scraper?
<Greg G.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WORSS said:
>
> >Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top which
> >will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever seen.
The
> >problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in my
life.
> >It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge glue 4
> >boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing the
> >boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the back and
> >sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put the
> >knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect. Even
with
> >all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very unacceptable.
> >Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any
ideas?
> >I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
> >
> >Bill
>
> Are you aligning the grain for minimum tearout?
> What happens if you use a cabinet scraper (Sandvik makes a $6.00 card)
> on the wood after jointing? Just curious.
>
>
> Greg G.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:36:26 GMT, "WORSS"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?

Howdy,

Overall, I would say "yes." It might be worth trying to borrow a
jointing plane...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Bridger do you always make a statement about a subject without
understanding it ????

Mikes Remark
"You must face joint
your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer. "

Now that is a pretty bold statement that is not true never has been and
never will be.
Anyone believing it is entitled to their beliefs and as I said in MY posts I
am not trying to change anyone's mind about anything.

What I stated is that there are other ways to do the same thing and to get
good results.
Had this remark came from you or anyone else in this group I more than
likely would have ignored it.
However Mike is supposed to be a teacher, If so then teach methods you
believe in and also teach that there are other ways to do anything, teach
your students to have an open mind to think for themselves, Do not close it
by making statements such as that.

Ask Anyone that runs a woodworking shop, Custom or Production, what is there
biggest problem, Finding skilled help and finding help that can think
I have been saying for years that 90% of woodworking skill is in home
workshops.
The real knowledge isn't, I have had many men work for me that had better
hands than I
yet they couldn't come in the shop on a weekend and build themselves a box
without me telling them how.
I see that lack of thinking here on the Rec also.
It' will probably be a cold day in hell if you caught me hand cutting
dovetails and hand planing a board, well that I do do occasionally but not
to the degree some of the guys here do.
The guys that do this truly have gifted hands, more than they probably know.

I won't spend the time or the energy when I can get a machine to do it for
me. I make a living out of this work, I do not have the time to be doing
that kind of stuff by hand.
Good Custom Woodworking requires enough hand work as it is.

There is not a lot of schools in this country that teach woodworking and
over the years I have hired people that went to a school for woodworking and
even a college or two that taught it and then they get into the field and
have trouble getting a job because of some of the garbage that the schools
teach is not the real world and most cannot think past what they learned.
And anyone believing that "all "commercial woodworking is crap is wrong,
there is a lot of good stuff being made commercially

Woodworking has never been a high paying trade in comparison to
Plumber's,Electrician,
Carpenters, Brick layers and anyone else in the trades.
It is actually one of the lowest with the most amount of skill and knowledge
required
There are many statements on the Rec that I believe are wrong
I may make a post on my thoughts on how I would go about said task and leave
it at that
as I did in this instance.
And even if someone disputes my remarks I mostly would ignore it.
I do not have the time to argue a subject to try and change someones mind.
I post here to try to be of help to fellow woodworkers that truely enjoy and
love what they do
as I do.
However in this instance it was a teacher and that my friend is pathetic.

Make a fool of myself ----Maybe to you and maybe to some others.
But I do believe that most understand what I have been saying

George



"Bridger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George-
> You're making a fool of yourself here.
> nobody has said here that you cannot get by- or even do good work-
> without a jointer.
> you might (or not...) want to look up some of the folks Mike cites.
> practise a little of your own open mindedness.... Mike teaches
> woodworking- so yes, he has opinions about what is proper and all- but
> nowhere has he said that good work cannot be done without a jointer.
> he said "most woodworkers should own a jointer"
>
> jointers exist for a reason.
> Bridger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:55:12 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I have no Idea who these people are.
> >Are they believer's in the Jointer myth?
> >That does not mean that they cannot produce good work,
> >They are entitled to their beliefs, I wouldn't take that from them or
even
> >try.
> >What is a pity is that you are teaching people to close their minds to a
> >method that is absolutely "not" the only way to accomplish a particular
> >task. Or that it is even all that necessary in the first place.
> >
> >I'm not a follower, I keep an open mind to all new ideas, and
innovations.
> >And try different things even against the so called only one way methods.
> >
> >My work has always spoke for me.
> >And as far as "Woodworker" I was pretty sure you had no idea what the
name
> >implies.
> >
> >George
> >
> >
> >> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:<[email protected]>...
> >> > Sorry Mike I have to disagree with that assertion,
> >> > This to me is just an urban myth in the woodworking field
> >> > A jointer is probably one of the last tools any shop needs if at all
> >> >
> >> > I know that is not going to change any ones mind of which I do not in
> >any
> >> > way attempt to do.
> >> > But it is so wrong to teach that this is the only accepted way to do
> >> > something.
> >> >
> >> > What ever happened to good old thinking of "hell there has to be a
> >different
> >> > way" which may or may not be better but in most cases just as good
and
> >not
> >> > to buy a machine that is really not needed.
> >> >
> >> > I have always worked with the attitude of hell there has got to be a
> >better
> >> > easier way to accomplish any thing and still maintain quality,
> >> > I try to instill this in anyone that has worked for me over the
years.
> >> >
> >> > I can still take any twisted board and run it thru a planer on a sled
> >and
> >> > get it as flat as anyone can with a jointer.
> >> > There is really nothing carved in stone in this work, try, attempt
your
> >> > idea's are not all that weird.
> >> >
> >> > You addressed your post to "Dear Woodworker"
> >> > What does this mean, I would like to hear of yours and anyone else's
> >> > opinions of what does "Woodworker"
> >> > mean.
> >> > Please no quotes from Webster's etc, I can read
> >> >
> >> > Nuff said,
> >> > George
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >> > > > I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own
> >> > lumber.
> >> > > > The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you
> >> > explain it
> >> > > > here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't
need a
> >> > jointer
> >> > > > would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> >> > > > saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I
> >> > couldn't do
> >> > > > with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > > > news:[email protected]...
> >> > > > > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight
edge,
> >> > > > > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not
have
> >>> > > >a jointer
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Dear Woodworker:
> >> > > Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and
acceptted
> >> > > way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across
the
> >> > > jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the
table
> >> > > saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
> >> > > school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
> >> > > jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face
joint
> >> > > your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
> >> > > not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a
planer.
> >> > > A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
> >> > > Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then
you
> >> > > can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a
professional
> >> > > quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
> >> > > learn how to use it.
> >> > >
> >> > > Good luck,
> >> > > Mike from American Sycamore
> >>
> >> George:
> >>
> >> So I know that this post is in vain, however I will not argue with
> >> Frank Klausz, Andy Rae, Tom Laird, Dale Barnard, Darrell Peart, David
> >> Sochar, and and and etc....all professional wood workers that they
> >> "walk the walk" they just do not talk about woodworking. One can not
> >> argue when you see the work that these people create.
> >>
> >> And as far as my greeting, "Dear Woodworker" Is this not
> >> rec.woodworking? A web site for woodworkers?
> >>
> >> Good Luck Dear Woodworker,
> >> Mike from American Sycamore
> >
>

[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:45:00 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> >I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a jointer
>
> Bridger wrote:
>
> before I had a jointer that's how I did it. now I have a jointer and
> that's what I use. much better

I find with my WWII the edge to be better than hand planing if I have
reversing grain on the piece I am planing (purpleheart currently). I
would think once you flatten the face with your hand plane and then
run the board through the TS you're good to go. Did you use some
short of those metal jointer clamps or make up a jig on your own?

Alan

Steps for truing stock.

Repost of my stock answer to bi weekly question
****************************************************************************
***********************************

Absolutely necessary. A flat face to work from.

Joint (make flat and straight) one face (reference face) so you have
something to true (reference) the remaining three sides to. Not to be done
on a planer because the feed rollers will push out any warp and it will
reappear as the stock exits the planer. For the same reason use very little
down force when jointing.

Joint one edge with the reference face against the jointers fence. This will
give you a straight edge that is at 90 degrees to the reference face. Also
an edge to reference the next edge.,

Rip a second edge on the table saw with the reference face against the table
and the reference edge against the fence. Try to do it on the jointer and it
will give you a straight edge but not one necessarily parallel to the first
edge.

Now you can plane the piece to a proper thickness with the reference face
flat down on the planers feed table. Since the reference face is flat the
planer has no warp to press out so the face being planed will be not only be
flat but parallel to the reference face.

The jointer performs the two most critical steps in the process (the
reference face and edge) but, with sufficient dicking around, there are work
arounds. but, without the dicking around, the planer will not perform the
functions of a jointer and the jointer will not perform the functions of a
planer.



--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own lumber.
> The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you explain
it
> here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
jointer
> would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I couldn't
do
> with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
>
>
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
> jointer
>
>
>

Don't stop posting your opposing views, George ... exposure to different
viewpoints, particularly those on the "practical" side, as most of yours
seem to be, never hurt anyone. After all, there is already enough 'magazine
inspired' wisdom to go around.

If the electricity went off tomorrow and never came back on, most of us
would have to quit anyway.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/29/03

"George M. Kazaka" wrote in message

> Bridger do you always make a statement about a subject without
> understanding it ????

<snip>

> Make a fool of myself ----Maybe to you and maybe to some others.
> But I do believe that most understand what I have been saying

Toller wrote:
> You don't say how thick it is, but maybe try a router? An end table sound
> like it should be small.

That was going to be my suggestion; a router with a spiral cutter and a
straight guide should do the trick, if the boards aren't more than a
couple inches thick. Otherwise a jointing jig for the tablesaw might be
in order.

Joe said:

>How is the square edge maintained using the scraper?

No mention has been made of the thickness of the boards, but a
makeshift guide/jig can be used to hold the card edge parallel to the
edge. A card scraper doesn't have to have a bent to the blade - just
put a fresh edge on the card. I don't know if this will solve the
OP's problem, but it's an idea. Wiping the wood down with water or
alcohol before jointing may help as well.


Greg G.

On 28 Dec 2003 05:16:57 -0800, [email protected] (Alan W)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:45:00 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
>> >I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a jointer
>>
>> Bridger wrote:
>>
>> before I had a jointer that's how I did it. now I have a jointer and
>> that's what I use. much better
>
>I find with my WWII the edge to be better than hand planing if I have
>reversing grain on the piece I am planing (purpleheart currently). I
>would think once you flatten the face with your hand plane and then
>run the board through the TS you're good to go. Did you use some
>short of those metal jointer clamps or make up a jig on your own?
>
>Alan



nah. set the blade to just kiss the high point. flip the board and
repeat. takes a while, but works well. if the board was WAY bent, I'd
trim it down a bit first with a skilsaw and chalkline or handheld
power plane.
Bridger

George-
You're making a fool of yourself here.
nobody has said here that you cannot get by- or even do good work-
without a jointer.
you might (or not...) want to look up some of the folks Mike cites.
practise a little of your own open mindedness.... Mike teaches
woodworking- so yes, he has opinions about what is proper and all- but
nowhere has he said that good work cannot be done without a jointer.
he said "most woodworkers should own a jointer"

jointers exist for a reason.
Bridger







On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 22:55:12 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I have no Idea who these people are.
>Are they believer's in the Jointer myth?
>That does not mean that they cannot produce good work,
>They are entitled to their beliefs, I wouldn't take that from them or even
>try.
>What is a pity is that you are teaching people to close their minds to a
>method that is absolutely "not" the only way to accomplish a particular
>task. Or that it is even all that necessary in the first place.
>
>I'm not a follower, I keep an open mind to all new ideas, and innovations.
>And try different things even against the so called only one way methods.
>
>My work has always spoke for me.
>And as far as "Woodworker" I was pretty sure you had no idea what the name
>implies.
>
>George
>
>
>> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> > Sorry Mike I have to disagree with that assertion,
>> > This to me is just an urban myth in the woodworking field
>> > A jointer is probably one of the last tools any shop needs if at all
>> >
>> > I know that is not going to change any ones mind of which I do not in
>any
>> > way attempt to do.
>> > But it is so wrong to teach that this is the only accepted way to do
>> > something.
>> >
>> > What ever happened to good old thinking of "hell there has to be a
>different
>> > way" which may or may not be better but in most cases just as good and
>not
>> > to buy a machine that is really not needed.
>> >
>> > I have always worked with the attitude of hell there has got to be a
>better
>> > easier way to accomplish any thing and still maintain quality,
>> > I try to instill this in anyone that has worked for me over the years.
>> >
>> > I can still take any twisted board and run it thru a planer on a sled
>and
>> > get it as flat as anyone can with a jointer.
>> > There is really nothing carved in stone in this work, try, attempt your
>> > idea's are not all that weird.
>> >
>> > You addressed your post to "Dear Woodworker"
>> > What does this mean, I would like to hear of yours and anyone else's
>> > opinions of what does "Woodworker"
>> > mean.
>> > Please no quotes from Webster's etc, I can read
>> >
>> > Nuff said,
>> > George
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:<[email protected]>...
>> > > > I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own
>> > lumber.
>> > > > The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you
>> > explain it
>> > > > here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
>> > jointer
>> > > > would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
>> > > > saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I
>> > couldn't do
>> > > > with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > > > news:[email protected]...
>> > > > > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
>> > > > > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have
>>> > > >a jointer
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear Woodworker:
>> > > Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted
>> > > way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the
>> > > jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table
>> > > saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
>> > > school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
>> > > jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint
>> > > your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
>> > > not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer.
>> > > A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
>> > > Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you
>> > > can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional
>> > > quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
>> > > learn how to use it.
>> > >
>> > > Good luck,
>> > > Mike from American Sycamore
>>
>> George:
>>
>> So I know that this post is in vain, however I will not argue with
>> Frank Klausz, Andy Rae, Tom Laird, Dale Barnard, Darrell Peart, David
>> Sochar, and and and etc....all professional wood workers that they
>> "walk the walk" they just do not talk about woodworking. One can not
>> argue when you see the work that these people create.
>>
>> And as far as my greeting, "Dear Woodworker" Is this not
>> rec.woodworking? A web site for woodworkers?
>>
>> Good Luck Dear Woodworker,
>> Mike from American Sycamore
>

It is used for dlatening a board
The way i look at it if i need to run it over the jointer to flatten it then
the board was not any good anyway.
If i have a piece that I particuarly like for some reason and it was twisted
i may hit it with a hand plane or run it thru the planer with a sled to get
rid of the twist,
Neither happens to often

"Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own lumber.
> The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you explain
it
> here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
jointer
> would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I couldn't
do
> with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
>
>
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
> jointer
>
>
>

Electricity Go Off Oh My God what will I do, <G>
I have a bunch of books on old and I do mean old furniture made way back
when,
Like hundreds of years ago when they had none of that AC DC stuff
I mean to tell you this stuff is ornate as all get out and I
In my head I think about making some of it by hand as they had to,
wow does it ever give me a headache thinking about it.

Thank you Mr Swingman,

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't stop posting your opposing views, George ... exposure to different
> viewpoints, particularly those on the "practical" side, as most of yours
> seem to be, never hurt anyone. After all, there is already enough
'magazine
> inspired' wisdom to go around.
>
> If the electricity went off tomorrow and never came back on, most of us
> would have to quit anyway.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/29/03
>
> "George M. Kazaka" wrote in message
>
> > Bridger do you always make a statement about a subject without
> > understanding it ????
>
> <snip>
>
> > Make a fool of myself ----Maybe to you and maybe to some others.
> > But I do believe that most understand what I have been saying
>
>

Mike at American Sycamore wrote:
>
> I just about lost it, thinking that the project was doomed and
> knowing what the wife had paid for the lumber.



I shivered when I read that.




--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:45:00 -0700, "George M. Kazaka"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
>I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a jointer



before I had a jointer that's how I did it. now I have a jointer and
that's what I use. much better...
Bridger

Doug Winterburn wrote:

> I'll get a couple this afternoon and put 'em on abpf

Thanks for the pics Doug, this looks like a pretty nifty idea. No reason
that 1/16" shim on the outfeed side couldn't be laminate or anything
else either. Maybe I'll give this a try this weekend :-)

One other trick, that sometimes works, is to moisten/spray the jointed edge
with water before running it though.

Doesn't always work, but sometimes saves the day.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/23/03


"WORSS" wrote in message
> I have tried running the boards through in both directions. There was
very
> little difference between the two directions.....it is really hard to tell
> what direction this grain is going!.

I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own lumber.
The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you explain it
here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a jointer
would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I couldn't do
with my table saw? Regards. -Guy


"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
jointer

Since you are on the subject... I have been in the market for a 6" jointer
and have recently considered that an 8" jointer might be a smarter buy. My
planned projects are mainly furniture (A queen bedroom set for my daughter,
dressers, tables, etc..) I would classify my woodworking skills as moderate,
and am restarting this hobby after a few years hiatus. The 6"/8" jointers I
have looked at are of the Grizzly line. Any thoughts?

-- Mike


"Mike at American Sycamore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I was thinking of buying a jointer and a planer to process my own
lumber.
> > The jointer for the edges and planer for the surface. The way you
explain it
> > here to get a straight edge by using the table saw I wouldn't need a
jointer
> > would I? I could get by with just the planer and my table
> > saw...........correct? What other use does a jointer have that I
couldn't do
> > with my table saw? Regards. -Guy
> >
> >
> > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
> > > I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a
> > jointer
>
>
> Dear Woodworker:
> Yes, most woodworkers should own a jointer. The correct and acceptted
> way to surface rough lumber is to face joint the material across the
> jointer, joint one edge, plane to thickness, and then rip on the table
> saw to width. One thing that all the professional that come to my
> school to teach have taught me, they are all insistent about face
> jointing the lumber and squareing the lumber up. You must face joint
> your lumber in order to have good quality square material. One can
> not get their lumber flat and square by running it through a planer.
> A planer only thicknesses lumber, it does Not make it square.
> Now if you are building simple crafts or yard ornaments then you
> can get by not using a jointer. If you wish to build a professional
> quality heirloom piece of furniture then one must buy a jointer and
> learn how to use it.
>
> Good luck,
> Mike from American Sycamore

You got it. Try the mist of water and try a light pass . Also try to reverse
the board direction.You could also just rip the board and try the joint out.
Or use a sanding disk in the tablesaw and take a LIGHT pass.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One other trick, that sometimes works, is to moisten/spray the jointed
edge
> with water before running it though.
>
> Doesn't always work, but sometimes saves the day.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/23/03
>
>
> "WORSS" wrote in message
> > I have tried running the boards through in both directions. There was
> very
> > little difference between the two directions.....it is really hard to
tell
> > what direction this grain is going!.
>
>

Don't need the jointer use the table saw to get a straight edge,
I go thru abot 2 to 3000 Bd feet of Lumber a year and do not have a jointer
"Brian D. LaVoie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> He needs to joint one edge to be straight and square to the faces to
> reference off the table saw fence, in order to cut the other edge
parallel.
>
> --
> Brian
> www.wood-workers.com/users/lavoie
>
>
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Why eve joint the edge
> > Cut them on the table saw alternate the boards face up and face down
> >
> >
> >
> > "Alan Bierbaum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > After you joint them; run them through a well adjusted table saw (WW
II
> > or
> > > equal blade) and you will be able to edge glue without problems. Just
> > take
> > > enough off with the table saw to get rid of the tear out.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alan Bierbaum
> > >
> > > Web Site: http://www.calanb.com
> > > Recent Project Page: http://www.calanb.com/recent.html
> > > Workbench project: http://www.calanb.com/wbench.html
> > >
> > >
> > > "WORSS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Help. I am currently making an end table. I am working on the top
> > which
> > > > will (hopefully) be made of the most beautiful maple I have ever
> seen.
> > > The
> > > > problem is that this is the most figured maple I have ever seen in
my
> > > life.
> > > > It is a combination of birdseye and curly maple. I need to edge
glue
> 4
> > > > boards to make the table top and am having a heck of a time jointing
> the
> > > > boards on my Jet jointer. I even removed the knives, lapped the
back
> > and
> > > > sharpened them on my Makita sharpener. I also took the time to put
> the
> > > > knives back in using a dial indicator to get them near perfect.
Even
> > with
> > > > all of this, the boards are coming out of the jointer very
> unacceptable.
> > > > Even though I am taking a very light cut, I am getting tearout. Any
> > > ideas?
> > > > I don't own a jointing plane (#7 or #8)...would these do any better?
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>