list,
I am a complete novice when it comes to woodworking and am
just beginning with my first few projects. But at the end of
last year I made the expensive mistake of going to a woodwork
show. There was a Lie Nielsen stand and I came away with a
block plane :) Its just a lovely thing, and I've used it a lot.
Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
Lie Nielsen.
As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
any comments gratefully received.
Tom
"Tombo" <[email protected]> wrote
: Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
: Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
: possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
: Lie Nielsen.
A glance at my web site - Planing Notes - Coping With Gnarly Grain might
help Tombo to come to an economical decision.
Jeff G
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Email address is username@ISP
username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
Website www.amgron.clara.net
In article <[email protected]>,
"Joe Nation" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I live in an area of West Texas that does not have very many people in it.
That doesn't narrow it down much, now does it? Don't yall have First
Monday? Head for the nearest town that has it.
For those who've never had the pleasure, driving acrost west Texas
isn't a vacation; it's a career.
Hook 'em,
--
"Keep your ass behind you."
Tombo <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> Lie Nielsen.
>
> As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
> of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
> plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
> that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
To add to the excellent comments you've received thus far, I'd
recommend you go slightly larger than a #5 for your next plane. A #6
would give you more flexibility, IMHO, as you can joint, surface, and
even smooth boards with it. Rather than going for a L-N or LV, or
Ebay for this plane you should do fine by contacting a reputable
oldtool dealer (Patrick Leach or Tom Bruce come to mind) and saying
you want an old user #6. You should be able to get one from them for
somewhere between $60-90, and will likely want to upgrade the iron to
a Hock or other aftermarket iron.
You might also want to consider the LV/Veritas line of planes.
They have made some real improvements to the basic Stanley/Bailey
designs, and they are priced nicely between the old planes and the
high-end stuff. I would save the L-N purchases for specialty planes,
and even at that, LV is rapidly encroaching on their territory.
Chuck Vance
"James D. Kountz" <jkountz@(remove this)citlink.net> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Everyone look for my forthcoming business I'm going to start. In light of
> some of the replies here I know I can retire selling old user Stanley planes
> for profit. If $60-90 is "going rate" I'm going to make a fortune!
I'm guessing you are referring to my post about buying a foreplane.
If so, please note that I recommended that he go through a
*reputable* online dealer. Yes, it will be priced higher than the
stuff you see on Ebay, but you will get a tool that you know will be
in good condition, and you will have a seller who will back up the
sale.
Ebay can be a crapshoot; I picked up a lovely type 12 #7 for $65
there, but I've heard too many horror stories about people buying
planes that turned out to be awful. If you are a newbie who doesn't
live in an area where oldtools can be easily found, it is definitely
worth your money to pay a bit more to get something you know will be
good.
BTW, if you think you can "retire selling old user Stanley planes
for profit", I suggest you contact a fellow named Patrick Leach.
He'll give you a quick dose of reality.
Chuck Vance
"John Flatley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> It has always been difficult to convince folks from West Texas that the
> earth is round.
As someone whose daughter is going to college at Texas Tech, I am
convinced that West Texas is why gawd invented cruise control.
As for the previous suggestion that we look for "First Mondays" or
"FMM" down here ... well, in the seven years I've been looking for
oldtools down here (Wimberley area), I can honestly say that I've
gotten one or two good deals. Mostly you get folks who think that
saws and planes are "antiques" just made for displaying to give that
"rustic charm" to your country decor. The few folks I've run across
who actually know something about the tools charge about on par with
(or slightly higher than) the reputable online dealers I have dealt
with.
The flea markets I've been to have been absolutely horrible; rusty
Handyman and Craftsman planes with knobs, totes or frogs missing, yet
priced as if they were in mint condition. The good tools are even
worse.
Chuck Vance
"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Well,
> I bought a #5 Bailey in the big tent in Roundtop one year for $35. It is as
> sweet as can be. The rosewood handle just lies in your hand, begging to be
> caressed like a lovesick puppy. The iron sings as it performs it's duty on
> miscreant piece of wood. It'll produce shavings like a Steve Knight
> smoother. (There's a couple of his planes in there too, but they come out
> when needed.)
> Then I found out it is a #7 (1893-1899) in excellent condition, and it
> immediately went into a wall display case.
>
> Go figure.
> Sigh . . . . . .
That's still a nice driveby. :-)
I have gotten a couple of good deals down here, but they are few
and far between. Little things like getting a crispy SW-era #80 for
$20. Or a huge Ohio Tools wooden jointer for $40. But the Stanleys I
normally run across are pretty much in the normal range of prices I
see from the online dealers.
Chuck Vance
I live in an area of West Texas that does not have very many people in it.
In fact the town I live in was not even established 120 years ago. The
ability to go to estate sales an pick up vintage tools is very limited
because there are few estates that even existed in the 1900 - 1920 time
frame. Rarely will you find anything for sale at an estate auction that
isn't 1950's junk. The people, like myself, in this area of the country are
stuck with the "going rate" of sales on ebay and at other internet tool
dealers if they want quality Stanley planes and other vintage tools.
"James D. Kountz" <jkountz@(remove this)citlink.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Everyone look for my forthcoming business I'm going to start. In light of
> some of the replies here I know I can retire selling old user Stanley
planes
> for profit. If $60-90 is "going rate" I'm going to make a fortune! Maybe
its
> my area I don't know but soon I will have a website up with old tools on
it
> for sale! Cant wait....Now old Stanley chisels are another story. I have
had
> NO luck at all finding good user everlasting Stanleys.
>
> Jim
>
>
> "Ed G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'd buy used Stanleys, but from a reputable dealer and not from Ebay. I
> > purchased three such planes a few months ago for near-ebay prices. The
> > difference was that I knew what I was getting and they came already
tuned
> > and sharp. My girlfriend bought me a new Stanley block plane for my
> > birthday which is complete CRAP, although I still use it when she's
> around.
> > For harder-to-find items like block planes, I buy LN or LV.
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > "Tombo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > list,
> > >
> > > I am a complete novice when it comes to woodworking and am
> > > just beginning with my first few projects. But at the end of
> > > last year I made the expensive mistake of going to a woodwork
> > > show. There was a Lie Nielsen stand and I came away with a
> > > block plane :) Its just a lovely thing, and I've used it a lot.
> > >
> > > Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> > > Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> > > possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> > > Lie Nielsen.
> > >
> > > As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
> > > of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
> > > plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
> > > that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
> > >
> > > any comments gratefully received.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Well,
I bought a #5 Bailey in the big tent in Roundtop one year for $35. It is as
sweet as can be. The rosewood handle just lies in your hand, begging to be
caressed like a lovesick puppy. The iron sings as it performs it's duty on
miscreant piece of wood. It'll produce shavings like a Steve Knight
smoother. (There's a couple of his planes in there too, but they come out
when needed.)
Then I found out it is a #7 (1893-1899) in excellent condition, and it
immediately went into a wall display case.
Go figure.
Sigh . . . . . .
"Conan The Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "John Flatley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > It has always been difficult to convince folks from West Texas that the
> > earth is round.
>
> As someone whose daughter is going to college at Texas Tech, I am
> convinced that West Texas is why gawd invented cruise control.
>
> As for the previous suggestion that we look for "First Mondays" or
> "FMM" down here ... well, in the seven years I've been looking for
> oldtools down here (Wimberley area), I can honestly say that I've
> gotten one or two good deals. Mostly you get folks who think that
> saws and planes are "antiques" just made for displaying to give that
> "rustic charm" to your country decor. The few folks I've run across
> who actually know something about the tools charge about on par with
> (or slightly higher than) the reputable online dealers I have dealt
> with.
>
> The flea markets I've been to have been absolutely horrible; rusty
> Handyman and Craftsman planes with knobs, totes or frogs missing, yet
> priced as if they were in mint condition. The good tools are even
> worse.
>
>
> Chuck Vance
Conan The Librarian wrote:
> "John Flatley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>It has always been difficult to convince folks from West Texas that the
>>earth is round.
>
>
> As someone whose daughter is going to college at Texas Tech, I am
> convinced that West Texas is why gawd invented cruise control.
>
It's also why radar detectors were invented. Those West Texas towns
have speed traps as the largest item on their income statement. I made
the trips for four years without getting stopped but sure came close
several times. I know many others who weren't so fortunate.
RB
> As for the previous suggestion that we look for "First Mondays" or
> "FMM" down here ... well, in the seven years I've been looking for
> oldtools down here (Wimberley area), I can honestly say that I've
> gotten one or two good deals. Mostly you get folks who think that
> saws and planes are "antiques" just made for displaying to give that
> "rustic charm" to your country decor. The few folks I've run across
> who actually know something about the tools charge about on par with
> (or slightly higher than) the reputable online dealers I have dealt
> with.
>
> The flea markets I've been to have been absolutely horrible; rusty
> Handyman and Craftsman planes with knobs, totes or frogs missing, yet
> priced as if they were in mint condition. The good tools are even
> worse.
>
>
> Chuck Vance
<snip>
> I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think you'll be sorry with a
> good condition old pre-WWII Stanley.
>
> Cheers, Nate
I would ditto some of the comments about E-Bay, and except for the
"collector" type of tools, most of the "user" stuff there is
overpriced, at least in my local (NJ) market of flea markets, garage
sales and the like. After you pay the "premium" for
shipping/handling. If E-Bay is your best bet due to geography, look
for the planes with holes drilled in the soles (a lot of folks drilled
holes to hang up the planes on nails) as the collectors view them as
damaged goods and the price goes down. I copy the pictures on ebay to
my photo editor and vary the exposure/light/dark/contrast to get a
better look at the plane. Read "Blood and Gore" (supertool.com) to
get an idea of what to look for as far as dating. Pre WWII is nice,
but actually, the "wartime" 4s, 5s, and 6s are solid tools, lacking
only the frog adjustment screw (which only make the frog adjustment
easier, i.e., the frog is fully adjustible) and have beefier castings,
which I happen to like. They do take some time to lap properly,
however. "Collectors" tend to avoid WWII production, because they
have hardwood handles and lack the brass adjustment knobs, so you may
find a "bargain" there on ebay. Personally, I get my planes from yard
sales, fleas and swap meets. good luck
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 01:47:56 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>get a Lie-Nielsen low-angle jack plane. Lee Valley is going to come out
>with their version of this plane soon, however, and the LV planes usually
>beat LN in price, to some extent, and add a few features, too. The
>fit-and-finish of the LN planes can't be beat, though. I have just the one
>LN plane and 2 LV planes, and I'm extremely happy with them all.
>
>Here's a nice article on the merits of a low-angle jack plane that can give
>you an idea of why I think it is a good place to start:
>
>http://www.lie-nielsen.com/pdf/LN62.pdf
Don't forget Clifton, as well. I've decided to stick to LN, Veritas,
and Clifton for future purchases.
My old Stanleys work fine, but the $40-50 models took plenty of work
to tune, and I added Hock irons at $35 a pop. One of the Stanley's I
bought on eBay was incomplete.
Barry
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:06:37 +0100, Tombo <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
>Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
>possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
>Lie Nielsen.
Tom, for a beginner I think the best is buying a few used planes.
Check Ebay, estate sales, classifieds, local and mail order used tool
dealers. I'd reserve my money for the planes that LN replicates where
the orginals are way too expensive and rare to use reguarly in your
shop...such as the low angle smoother and jack.
One poster suggested getting a Stanley #5 jack, but I'd advise getting
a #6 fore plane instead. It's a bit bigger and heavier, but to me
personally it's more versatile. You can use it to thickness, smooth,
joint and trim end grain. Because of it's longer length you can joint
longer boards than with a #5 and the extra weight helps you through
the stroke.
Once you
>As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
>of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
I'd say get a #4, #6 and a #8 and skip the #5 and #7, but that's just
my opinion. To me the difference between a #4 and #5 isn't big enough.
Once you clean and tune your used Stanley planes they'll perform just
as good as the LNs or LVs. One note: stay away from the plastic
handled Stanleys and Records. No matter how much I've tried tuning my
plastic handled #4 Stanley it won't shave as well as my wooden handled
#6 Stanley which I haven't tuned at all. I'm not sure what vintage the
#6 is but I'd guess 70s or 60s. The #6 will make shavings as thin one
ply of facial tissue. The #4 can't even come close.But it's not
wasted. I just use the #4 for hogging and whenever I need to take off
more to get to the marked line. I was lucky with the #6 though in that
it was in cherry condition....barely used if at all.
>plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
>that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
Yes. They are the same for all brands, Clifton, Record, LV, LN,
Stanley, etc. Go to:
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm
for THE best source on Stanley plane models.
Go to:
http://www.yesterdaystools.com/tuninga1.htm
to learn how to tune a hand plane.
And finally, go to:
http://www.amgron.clara.net/
and click on the "planing notes" link. In it you'll discover a wealth
of information!
hope this helps,
Layne
Tombo <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
...
> Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> Lie Nielsen.
...
I've never owned a Lie Nielsen, so I can't comment there. They are
pretty much the Cadillac of planes, though ... lots of people swear by
them.
I can tell you that the old Stanley planes are extremely good. I
recently got a Stanley #3 (about 1927 vintage I think). Just a
sharpening, and that plane cuts like a dream ... little thin long
wispy shavings or long corkscrew curls. Those old rosewood handles
fit like a glove. It has a gorgeous old patina, and it hefts just
right. Usually I look at my tools as means to an end - but with this
old plane just using it is an end in itself.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think you'll be sorry with a
good condition old pre-WWII Stanley.
Cheers, Nate
> Stick with the used Stanleys on eBay. For about 40 to 50 bucks you can get a
> #4 and a #5. The 4 for smoothing and the 5 for jointing. Will save you
> several hundred dollars over LV or LN. Once you clean those Stanleys up a
> bit, sharpen the blade, and lap the sole, you'll be happy to have saved the
> money. But don't get me wrong, I have a LV low angle block plane and a LN
> small low angle block plane, love both of 'em, just can't see spending
> hundreds of dollars on smoothing/jointing planes when there are an abundance
> of old Stanleys out there.
Question, Stanley is still making planes, is there anything about the
current makes that is not up to the same standards as the old ones?
Alex
AArDvarK asks:
>> Stick with the used Stanleys on eBay. For about 40 to 50 bucks you can get
>a
>> #4 and a #5. The 4 for smoothing and the 5 for jointing. Will save you
>> several hundred dollars over LV or LN. Once you clean those Stanleys up a
>> bit, sharpen the blade, and lap the sole, you'll be happy to have saved
>the
>> money. But don't get me wrong, I have a LV low angle block plane and a LN
>> small low angle block plane, love both of 'em, just can't see spending
>> hundreds of dollars on smoothing/jointing planes when there are an
>abundance
>> of old Stanleys out there.
>
>
>Question, Stanley is still making planes, is there anything about the
>current makes that is not up to the same standards as the old ones?
Nearly everything. Mouths have been opened up, handles are molded plastic (with
mold lines that cause blisters), soles are not flat and take a
loooooooooooooooong time to flatten.
Charlie Self
"Wars spring from unseen and generally insignificant causes, the first outbreak
being often but an explosion of anger." Thucydides
Hey Kevin,
I found a lot of great information about the MK.II over at
www.woodcentral.com Do a search in the messageboard archive for "power
sharpener" or "veritas sharpener" and you'll find a lot of great info. In
particular, Lyn Mangiameli (sp?) had great tips for making the most of it,
as well as giving it the seal of approval.
Lyn is (has?) done a study of planes and plane blades (I'm not 100% of the
details), but basically he sharpens something like 150 plane irons a day
(probably the same ones multiple times), and he says the MK.II is the best
tool for edge tool sharpening (chisels and plane irons).
I think I can paste a link to the message thread:
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/archives_handtools.pl?read=19802
There ya go.
Also, there is a review of various power sharpeners in the latest popular
woodworking magazine, as well as a recent woodworkers journal (not this
month, but perhaps the one just previous). Both reviews gave the MK.II high
marks.
I'll definitely write up my thoughts when I'm done, but I'll be surprised if
the results aren't great considering the above references. We'll see how
much sharpening skill plays a part, as I am sure to have much less than the
above reviewers.
Mike
"Kevin B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:tLsjc.30743$cF6.1357056@attbi_s04...
> Hey Mike, I'd appreciate a post about that MK II after you break it in.
I'm
> looking at one myself and would appreciate an experienced opinion.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin B.
>
> "Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Don't forget Clifton, as well. I've decided to stick to LN, Veritas,
> > > and Clifton for future purchases.
> > >
> >
> > Clifton is great, too, I agree. I picked up a fore plane during the
> > Woodcraft closeout for a gloatable discount. I might not have a
complete
> > set of one type of plane make, but I'm pretty happy with the hodgepodge
I
> > have come up with. And my LV MK.II power sharpener should be here today
> or
> > tomorrow, so I'm stoked about that, too. Neandering definitely isn't as
> > cost effective as it could be, although I definitely haven't made it
> nearly
> > as economical as could be, that's for sure.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>
Tombo <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> list,
>
> I am a complete novice when it comes to woodworking and am
> just beginning with my first few projects. But at the end of
> last year I made the expensive mistake of going to a woodwork
> show. There was a Lie Nielsen stand and I came away with a
> block plane :) Its just a lovely thing, and I've used it a lot.
>
> Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> Lie Nielsen.
>
> As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
> of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
> plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
> that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
>
> any comments gratefully received.
>
> Tom
>
Any of out UK-resident experts wish to chime in with opinions reflecting
currently available options over there?
IF the OP were in North America, the above answers would be right on. I
don't know if there aren't other answers more applicable. There certainly
are/were excellent British products made in past years.
Patriarch,
heading to a show this weekend in California....
Joe Nation wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I live in an area of West Texas that does not have very many people in
> it. In fact the town I live in was not even established 120 years ago.
> The ability to go to estate sales an pick up vintage tools is very
> limited because there are few estates that even existed in the 1900 -
> 1920 time frame. Rarely will you find anything for sale at an estate
> auction that isn't 1950's junk. The people, like myself, in this area
> of the country are stuck with the "going rate" of sales on ebay and at
> other internet tool dealers if they want quality Stanley planes and
> other vintage tools.
>
Been there, done that, Joe. I feel for you. I used to live in Monahans
(36 years), but moved to the Hill Country 5 years ago. The only thing I
regret is taking so long to get here. <grin>
--
Michael Burton
Thunderbird Hardwoods
Llano, TX
mhburton at moment dot net
Conan The Librarian wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> The flea markets I've been to have been absolutely horrible; rusty
> Handyman and Craftsman planes with knobs, totes or frogs missing, yet
> priced as if they were in mint condition. The good tools are even
> worse.
>
I must have been to the same flea markets as you. I did however find a
beautiful Stanley #8 Type 9 for $20.00 in one of our antique/junk stores.
It was pretty dirty when I got it and didn't look good at first glance, but
I look close in the store and decided it was just gunk on the plane and
bought it.
--
Michael Burton
Thunderbird Hardwoods
Llano, TX
mhburton at moment dot net
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't forget Clifton, as well. I've decided to stick to LN, Veritas,
> and Clifton for future purchases.
>
Clifton is great, too, I agree. I picked up a fore plane during the
Woodcraft closeout for a gloatable discount. I might not have a complete
set of one type of plane make, but I'm pretty happy with the hodgepodge I
have come up with. And my LV MK.II power sharpener should be here today or
tomorrow, so I'm stoked about that, too. Neandering definitely isn't as
cost effective as it could be, although I definitely haven't made it nearly
as economical as could be, that's for sure.
Mike
It has always been difficult to convince folks from West Texas that the
earth is round.
Been there, done that!
Jack Flatley
Jacksonville, Florida
"Australopithecus scobis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Joe Nation" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I live in an area of West Texas that does not have very many people in
it.
>
> That doesn't narrow it down much, now does it? Don't yall have First
> Monday? Head for the nearest town that has it.
>
> For those who've never had the pleasure, driving acrost west Texas
> isn't a vacation; it's a career.
>
>
> Hook 'em,
> --
> "Keep your ass behind you."
"John Flatley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It has always been difficult to convince folks from West Texas that the
> earth is round.
>
>Lived in Odessa from 1959 to 1969. Can remember lots and lots of open
country around. Also lots of lakes within short distances for fishing and
boating. San Angelo and Lake Nasworthy(sp?) at that time was nice.
--
Paul O.
[email protected]
I have bought many old Stanleys in various conditions and have never
regretted it. Forget Ebay though. The pictures usually suck and the bidding
war idiots usually run everything way beyond what its actually worth. I find
planes at yard sales, flea markets and auctions. A couple weeks ago I got
three old Stanleys all #4's for $20. That's for all three, not each! I had
about an hours time getting them back to user condition but they are
absolutely dead on now and work great. I'm fairly proficient however at
grinding and honing bevels if I may toot my own horn so that phase of the
re-conditioning doesn't take me very long. Your mileage may vary.
Jim
"patriarch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tombo <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > list,
> >
> > I am a complete novice when it comes to woodworking and am
> > just beginning with my first few projects. But at the end of
> > last year I made the expensive mistake of going to a woodwork
> > show. There was a Lie Nielsen stand and I came away with a
> > block plane :) Its just a lovely thing, and I've used it a lot.
> >
> > Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> > Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> > possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> > Lie Nielsen.
> >
> > As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
> > of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
> > plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
> > that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
> >
> > any comments gratefully received.
> >
> > Tom
> >
>
> Any of out UK-resident experts wish to chime in with opinions reflecting
> currently available options over there?
>
> IF the OP were in North America, the above answers would be right on. I
> don't know if there aren't other answers more applicable. There certainly
> are/were excellent British products made in past years.
>
> Patriarch,
> heading to a show this weekend in California....
Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
<snip>
> I guess it all depends on whether you want a tool or a project. I'm
> sure there are good deals to be had in old planes if you know what
> you're looking for, but you can end up with junk too. I bought two
> planes on eBay, and am batting .500 on the pair.
>
<snip>
> You pays your money and you takes your chances.
Being a cheap bastud and a used tool junkie, I feel obliged to point
out that in my experience, I would have to bat around .200 on used
hand planes to make it worth buying new. Especially when compared to
Lie Neilsen new prices.
I can buy five No 7. jointer planes at $70 a piece off Ebay for the
price of a new Lie Neilsen. You do take your chances, but chances are
you will come away with a very good tool before you spend Lie Neilsen
money. You can further increase your chances by buying from a
reputable used hand plane dealer.
I can't comment on how much the frustration of buying a lemon is worth
to you. But it warms the cheapest cockels of my heart to know that I
could buy a brand spanking new replacement for every one of those
lemons with the money I saved.
That's my .01 cent worth. (Too cheap to give .02 cents worth)
Neil
get a Lie-Nielsen low-angle jack plane. Lee Valley is going to come out
with their version of this plane soon, however, and the LV planes usually
beat LN in price, to some extent, and add a few features, too. The
fit-and-finish of the LN planes can't be beat, though. I have just the one
LN plane and 2 LV planes, and I'm extremely happy with them all.
Here's a nice article on the merits of a low-angle jack plane that can give
you an idea of why I think it is a good place to start:
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/pdf/LN62.pdf
Anyway, I also have bought several old Stanley planes from Ebay, so I guess
I've gone to many venues for planes. One thing is true of all the sources -
it is very easy to spend a lot of $$ on planes (DAMHIKT).
Mike
"Tombo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> list,
>
> I am a complete novice when it comes to woodworking and am
> just beginning with my first few projects. But at the end of
> last year I made the expensive mistake of going to a woodwork
> show. There was a Lie Nielsen stand and I came away with a
> block plane :) Its just a lovely thing, and I've used it a lot.
>
> Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> Lie Nielsen.
>
> As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
> of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
> plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
> that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
>
> any comments gratefully received.
>
> Tom
>
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:37:28 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Neandering definitely isn't as
>cost effective as it could be, although I definitely haven't made it nearly
>as economical as could be, that's for sure.
>
>Mike
Look at it other ways. Think of the resale value of the good stuff
vs. current Record or Stanley stuff. You could quit wooddorking
tomorrow and get a major portion of the cost of good tools back. Some
Lie Neilsen items may even return 100% of the original cost!
Not to mention the sheer pleasure a really good tool, hand or power,
is to use.
Or the fact that you'll pass it down your family tree. <G>
I don't think the last two thoughts have a monetary price.
Barry
Tombo <[email protected]> writes:
>list,
>Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
>Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
>possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
>Lie Nielsen.
Either used (if you can get one old enough), or for new you
can't beat the price-performance of Lee Valley.
>
>As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
>of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
>plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
>that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
#5 (Jack Plane) would be a good starter; the LV 5.25 is a
nice compromise in size.
scott
Stick with the used Stanleys on eBay. For about 40 to 50 bucks you can get a
#4 and a #5. The 4 for smoothing and the 5 for jointing. Will save you
several hundred dollars over LV or LN. Once you clean those Stanleys up a
bit, sharpen the blade, and lap the sole, you'll be happy to have saved the
money. But don't get me wrong, I have a LV low angle block plane and a LN
small low angle block plane, love both of 'em, just can't see spending
hundreds of dollars on smoothing/jointing planes when there are an abundance
of old Stanleys out there.
Some of my favorite plane websites:
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mike_in_katy/PlaneWood/Default.htm
http://www.yesterdaystools.com/tuninga1.htm
http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stanpl.htm
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm
Regards,
KevinB.
"Tombo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> list,
>
> I am a complete novice when it comes to woodworking and am
> just beginning with my first few projects. But at the end of
> last year I made the expensive mistake of going to a woodwork
> show. There was a Lie Nielsen stand and I came away with a
> block plane :) Its just a lovely thing, and I've used it a lot.
>
> Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> Lie Nielsen.
>
> As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
> of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
> plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
> that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
>
> any comments gratefully received.
>
> Tom
>
Everyone look for my forthcoming business I'm going to start. In light of
some of the replies here I know I can retire selling old user Stanley planes
for profit. If $60-90 is "going rate" I'm going to make a fortune! Maybe its
my area I don't know but soon I will have a website up with old tools on it
for sale! Cant wait....Now old Stanley chisels are another story. I have had
NO luck at all finding good user everlasting Stanleys.
Jim
"Ed G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'd buy used Stanleys, but from a reputable dealer and not from Ebay. I
> purchased three such planes a few months ago for near-ebay prices. The
> difference was that I knew what I was getting and they came already tuned
> and sharp. My girlfriend bought me a new Stanley block plane for my
> birthday which is complete CRAP, although I still use it when she's
around.
> For harder-to-find items like block planes, I buy LN or LV.
> Good luck.
>
> Ed
>
> "Tombo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > list,
> >
> > I am a complete novice when it comes to woodworking and am
> > just beginning with my first few projects. But at the end of
> > last year I made the expensive mistake of going to a woodwork
> > show. There was a Lie Nielsen stand and I came away with a
> > block plane :) Its just a lovely thing, and I've used it a lot.
> >
> > Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> > Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> > possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> > Lie Nielsen.
> >
> > As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
> > of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
> > plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
> > that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
> >
> > any comments gratefully received.
> >
> > Tom
> >
>
>
"Kevin B" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Stick with the used Stanleys on eBay. For about 40 to 50 bucks you can get a
> #4 and a #5. The 4 for smoothing and the 5 for jointing. Will save you
> several hundred dollars over LV or LN. Once you clean those Stanleys up a
> bit, sharpen the blade, and lap the sole, you'll be happy to have saved the
> money.
I guess it all depends on whether you want a tool or a project. I'm
sure there are good deals to be had in old planes if you know what
you're looking for, but you can end up with junk too. I bought two
planes on eBay, and am batting .500 on the pair.
One was a Stanley #220 (I think that's the right number; it's a block
plane). It required a little bit of work, but I ended up with a good
tool at a good price.
The other was a Record #5. It was a disaster. The lateral adjustment
lever was basically non-functional. I tried buying some new parts from
Highland Hardware to fix it, but the stuff I bought, even though
advertised to fit Stanley or Record, didn't have the same kind of mouth
adjustment mechanism as the original, so I've still got a pile of parts
that aren't doing me any good.
I've since invested in 3 Lee-Valley planes (5-1/4, low-angle block, and
the new shoulder plane). I spent more money than I might have on eBay,
but I got three useful tools that I could use out of the box.
You pays your money and you takes your chances.
I'd buy used Stanleys, but from a reputable dealer and not from Ebay. I
purchased three such planes a few months ago for near-ebay prices. The
difference was that I knew what I was getting and they came already tuned
and sharp. My girlfriend bought me a new Stanley block plane for my
birthday which is complete CRAP, although I still use it when she's around.
For harder-to-find items like block planes, I buy LN or LV.
Good luck.
Ed
"Tombo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> list,
>
> I am a complete novice when it comes to woodworking and am
> just beginning with my first few projects. But at the end of
> last year I made the expensive mistake of going to a woodwork
> show. There was a Lie Nielsen stand and I came away with a
> block plane :) Its just a lovely thing, and I've used it a lot.
>
> Now I think I want a bigger beast for smoothing and jointing.
> Ive been looking on ebay at old stanley planes (cheap) as a
> possibility or would I be better off buying a new (expensive)
> Lie Nielsen.
>
> As a novice I have no idea of the difference in performance
> of these two tools. Indeed I really don't know which size of
> plane to go for, my research points to a number 5 (whatever
> that is) are the two brands numbering schemes equivalent?
>
> any comments gratefully received.
>
> Tom
>
Hey Mike, I'd appreciate a post about that MK II after you break it in. I'm
looking at one myself and would appreciate an experienced opinion.
Thanks,
Kevin B.
"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Don't forget Clifton, as well. I've decided to stick to LN, Veritas,
> > and Clifton for future purchases.
> >
>
> Clifton is great, too, I agree. I picked up a fore plane during the
> Woodcraft closeout for a gloatable discount. I might not have a complete
> set of one type of plane make, but I'm pretty happy with the hodgepodge I
> have come up with. And my LV MK.II power sharpener should be here today
or
> tomorrow, so I'm stoked about that, too. Neandering definitely isn't as
> cost effective as it could be, although I definitely haven't made it
nearly
> as economical as could be, that's for sure.
>
> Mike
>
>