I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
and droop if I breathe on them.
Now it occurred to me that snipe always happens on the last two inches
of the plank (in my case - never had snipe at the beginning) and so,
as the feed rollers are two inches from the cutter head, the snipe
occurs when the plank has passed the infeed roller and somehow, either
the plank lifts, or the cutterhead drops when the first roller loses
contact.
My feed rollers have always had difficulty feeding my planks (probably
needs an adjustment, but I can't see where) and so I have always had
to virtually push everything through the thing with 3x2s poking
through the stand legs against a wall so I don't push the thing over.
I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
make a fine spear thrower.
Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 03:42:13 GMT, "TJ"
<[email protected]> wrote:
><?> wrote...
>>I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
>> archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
>> snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
>> and droop if I breathe on them.
>
>IMO, cheapo unit + worn out = time for a new one.
Hi Tim. Yes, it's a cheapo unit, but I'm wondering what you reckon has
worn out. I really would like to find out what is causing snipe on
this thing, and seeing if there is something cheap I can do to correct
the error. Could be backlash in the cutterhead adjustment. And I see
that some feed rollers are interconnected with a lever action where
one moves up, the other moves down, and vice versa.
>As the other guys said, removing the feed rollers is crazy talk.
Couldn't agree more after considering it.
>As far as snipe goes, prolly safest and easiest to rough cut to length 4-1/2" over.
Not helpful when you have 2 10' planks for a bookshelf and you need
10' :)
>And, since it's always fun to share machine porn, I'd like to add that my Craftsman 12" planer is maybe starting to get a little old, but doesn't snipe, and isn't near worn out yet:
>http://www.tjwoodworking.com/prks02.jpg
Nice. Looks a lot olde than mine, and not of Chinese origin :)
jack
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:58:17 +0900, [email protected] wrote:
>Talking of this jointer, the instruction manual says the widest stuff
>you can work is 4". Is this a misprint? (Chinese)
12.5" planer and widest is 4"? Doesn't make sense. If the manual is
an Chinese to English translation, maybe they mean 4" thick instead of
4" wide. IMO that would make more sense.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
[email protected] said:
>On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:01:47 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>>.... Whatever works for you however.
>
>Great advice, thanks, Greg. All the best to you and all the other
>woodies for the festive season and the new year.
>jack
Sorry if I repeated the obvious, Jack. Haven't seen your nym before,
so have no idea what your experience - there are widely varying levels
of experience represented in this group. As well, many lurk and might
pick up a pointer. I'll shut up now. ;-)
Hope you finish your project in time, and have a pleasant holiday.
Greg G.
In article
<63242936-cd0b-4f4c-a353-009395866994@f52g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
RayV <[email protected]> wrote:
> As I begin feeding the board I lift the tail end of the board
> slightly, as it exits the planer I lift the front end of the board
> slightly.
That, or use a sled with consumable wood glued in a trailing position
and let it take the snipe.
Usually, I just allow for snipe when I'm measuring and cutting. Part of
the waste built into the project.
--
Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups.
http://improve-usenet.org/
Leon took a can of maroon spray paint on December 24, 2007 11:05 am and
wrote the following:
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Leon"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> He was talking about removing the feed rollers and manually feeding the
>> work
>> in the _same_ direction as the cutter head rotation.
>>
>
> Yeah I get that now, I only consider the in feed side as feed rollers. I
> normally think of the outfeed rollers not so much as feed rollers but
> more
> as extraction rollers, thanks for confirming. That would be rather
> dangerous.
Suitable either for a Darwin award, or a diy missile launcher.
"Hey Bubba, watch this...."
--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.
[email protected] said:
>Now, most of what I want to do is some 3' lengths of this, and some 4"
>x 3/4" jarrah fence palings. Or even short lengths of these for my
>drawer sides (in another post). Of course, the thicknesser will not
>have as much to do now, as I have an 8" jointer to clean up the rough
>sawn stuff first.
Aside from really pushing the envelope of what this unit was designed
to handle, it is of questionable heritage. I would be shopping for a
replacement while the holiday sales are ongoing.
That said, however, you could take a shot at tuning it up.
Make sure there is no play in the cutterhead bearings or the feed
rollers - repair or "fix" what is necessary. Use a flat surface
inserted into the planer bed (power removed), adjust the thickness
adjustment until there is a small clearance, and use feeler gauges to
check the clearances of the various rollers and blades - they must all
be parallel to the flat surface. Clean the rollers, or replace if they
are chewed up. Their diameter and resiliency are somewhat critical.
If the blades do not self-register when installing, try installing
them a little less proud. In other words, set them closer to the
centerline of the cutterhead. that should allow the feed rollers to
get a little more bite. The rollers not only provide feed assistance,
they hold the board against the bed securely.
Snipe generally occurs when a board is not held down against the
planer bed by both rollers - which is when first entering or exiting
the cutting/holddown/feedroller assembly. Make certain that boards
fed into the unit remain above the plane of the planer bed - they must
not droop AT ALL or it will snipe. Heavier and longer boards are
increasingly susceptible to this. I usually lift the ends of entering
and exiting boards with one finger to eliminate the snipe originating
from this design "feature". If you use roller stands, they must be
very carefully adjusted, under load, to be at or slightly above the
planer bed. Everything must also be absolutely level; in other words,
both the planer bed and the roller stands must be parallel, not
slightly lower on one side or the other.
>Talking of this jointer, the instruction manual says the widest stuff
>you can work is 4". Is this a misprint? (Chinese)
Probably means thickness, not width - what would be the point of it
being a 12" planer. :-o
Good Luck,
Greg G.
"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cCEbj.12239$GV4.4495@trnddc05...
>
> ">snip
>
> I have a medium quality planer (Delta 22-580) that snipes on both
> ends. To be fair to Delta I never tried adjusting anything but I get
> by the sniping this way:
>
> As I begin feeding the board I lift the tail end of the board
> slightly, as it exits the planer I lift the front end of the board
> slightly.
>
> This easily prevents sniping on my planer and it may work on yours.
> Very light pressure upwards is all it takes, just enough to keep the
> board horizontal.
>
> It works on my Delta planer too! :-)
>
It doesn't work on my Delta TP200. Other than that the machine is a work
horse for the money.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
>archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that snipes
>everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water and droop if
>I breathe on them.
>
<snip>.
> Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
You might try filling in the underside of you in/ outfeed tables with a
piece of MDF or something. That should stiffen them up for you but
honestly, don't throw money at this unit. There are some adequate units
available in the $200+ area. My Delta TP 200 was about that (obsolete now).
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
> archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
> snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
> and droop if I breathe on them.
>
> Now it occurred to me that snipe always happens on the last two inches
> of the plank (in my case - never had snipe at the beginning) and so,
> as the feed rollers are two inches from the cutter head, the snipe
> occurs when the plank has passed the infeed roller and somehow, either
> the plank lifts, or the cutterhead drops when the first roller loses
> contact.
>
> My feed rollers have always had difficulty feeding my planks (probably
> needs an adjustment, but I can't see where) and so I have always had
> to virtually push everything through the thing with 3x2s poking
> through the stand legs against a wall so I don't push the thing over.
>
> I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
> for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
> to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
> material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
> gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
> head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
> make a fine spear thrower.
> Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
Don't remove the feed rollers ! It's dangerous to try to use your planer
without them. Instead, clean them. I usually use paint thinner on them and
then follow it up with 409 or a similar detergent type cleaner. After a
good scrubbing they should work like new again.
Using a piece of melamine for a feeder bed will help with feeding and it
will reduce snipe some, but I have had the best success by inserting a piece
of scrap wood of the same thickness immediately following the good piece of
wood. Butt the ends together and don't leave any gaps. If you do this right
the planer will think it's running a longer board and the snipe will occur
on the scrap piece. All planers produce snipe. The better quality planers
produce less. My newest planer, a DeWalt 735, was supposed to be snipe free
according to the salesman. It's much better about snipe than my older
planer, but it still snipes, however, it's so little (a few thousandths)
that it can usually be sanded out very easily, so I still follow up my good
boards with a piece of scrap if I really don't want any snipe in my boards.
Charley
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Realize, too, that there is no such thing as "gently allow[ing] the
> material
> to be slowly dragged through by the cutter head." Instead, picture the
> material being instantly snatched into the machine by the cutter head,
> possibly dragging your hands along with it, and ejected at 60+ mph.
Un less I am seriousely mistaken about "this" machine the cutter head would
throw the work back out at you, not pull the wood in. Neither of my planers
would do this.
On Dec 23, 4:40=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
> archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
> snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
> and droop if I breathe on them.
>
> Now it occurred to me that snipe always happens on the last two inches
> of the plank (in my case - never had snipe at the beginning) and so,
> as the feed rollers are two inches from the cutter head, the snipe
> occurs when the plank has passed the infeed roller and somehow, either
> the plank lifts, or the cutterhead drops when the first roller loses
> contact.
>
> My feed rollers have always had difficulty feeding my planks (probably
> needs an adjustment, but I can't see where) and so I have always had
> to virtually push everything through the thing with 3x2s poking
> through the stand legs against a wall so I don't push the thing over.
>
> I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
> for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
> to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
> material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
> gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
> head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
> make a fine spear thrower.
> Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
I have a medium quality planer (Delta 22-580) that snipes on both
ends. To be fair to Delta I never tried adjusting anything but I get
by the sniping this way:
As I begin feeding the board I lift the tail end of the board
slightly, as it exits the planer I lift the front end of the board
slightly.
This easily prevents sniping on my planer and it may work on yours.
Very light pressure upwards is all it takes, just enough to keep the
board horizontal.
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:39:14 -0800 (PST), RayV
<[email protected]> wrote:
>As I begin feeding the board I lift the tail end of the board
>slightly, as it exits the planer I lift the front end of the board
>slightly.
>
>This easily prevents sniping on my planer and it may work on yours.
>Very light pressure upwards is all it takes, just enough to keep the
>board horizontal.
That techniques also works beautifully on my Jet 13" Planer/Molder
(JPM-13CS)
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
jack wrote ...
> Hi Tim. Yes, it's a cheapo unit, but I'm wondering what you reckon has
> worn out. I really would like to find out what is causing snipe on
> this thing, and seeing if there is something cheap I can do to correct
> the error.=20
IMO, snipe is inherent in a unit that isn't adjustable. On my old =
Craftsman planer, the bed is adjustable for parallel to the cutterhead, =
and the bed rollers are adjustable for height and parallel. The table =
gibs are adjustable. The feed rollers, presure plate, and chipbreaker =
are also adjustable, so the unit can be fine tuned to eliminate snipe. =
But it really does have to be carefully tweaked to achieve a snipe-free =
cut. I'm just saying having all those fine adjustments on a sturdy cast =
iron machine is the key here.
With your unit, the cutterhead and feed roller bearings may be worn. =
Also, the rubber surface on the rollers could be worn. If you're force =
feeding the unit, you're also losing any fine tweaking that could be =
applied, such as lifting the ends of the board. Also, the table might =
be worn so it has a crown under the cutterhead. And there may be slop =
on the cutterhead carriage or on the table support. Any little bit of =
slop will give the cutterhead that slight mechanical advantage it needs =
to pull up the workpiece and snipe it.
If you really are intent on salvaging the machine, I'd recommend making =
a flat table for it, and replacing any roller and sleeve bearings on the =
cutterhead and feed rollers.
Also check to see that there is no play in the carriage supports.
Also check and see what the height difference is, from the table, =
between the feed rollers and the cutters. Having the cutters sharpened =
will take a little off and may compensate for worn feed rollers.
HTH
--=20
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com
On Dec 24, 6:26 am, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] said:
>
> >On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:01:47 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>.... Whatever works for you however.
I lurk and pick up pointers all the time.
I find this list best when folks seriously attempt to 1. understand
the writer's question / situation and, 2. Attempt to offer sage
constructive advice - even though its been said (and archived) many
times before.
I have a rigid Planer from HD that was on sale for $200. I've had it
on home made stands and the floor and want to "bury" it into an eight
foot long "table" such that the table surface is on the same plane as
the in/out feed decks.
The melamine or formica idea sounds good - but it made me think of
that UHMF (?) plastic stuff they sell for maing slippery jigs and of
the "boat lumber" you can buy in 3/4" thickness that is really
slippery and tough as nails - not to mention "pricey."
I've not experienced too much snipe, but I never plane a board cut to
anything near the finished size and always take it down a "hair" at a
time.
I flip it from one side and end to the other (four passes per board
per cut) to try and keep it as flat as I can as I take it down to the
required thickness. As I often do multiples, this can get a bit
confusing with six or eight boards being "processed" at a session.
Lots of shavings (anyone have any success making mulch out of shavings/
sawdust?).
I have my eye on the Dewalt two-speed/three-blade model and wait for a
factory rebuilt or sale. Anyone use that model? Good, Great? Worth
the four hundred plus?
I would think that the rollers may have "dried" and gotten, thus, a
bit harder and smaller than when new. Wonder if soaking them in
something would help restore their size and grip?
Re-enforcing the in/out feed tables sounds like a plan - but steel
sounds better than wood or composites and might allow for the addition
of an adjustment mechanism of some sort. Tractor Supply has lots of
sheet steel and tube/angle/flat stock. If you can sacrifice 1/4" of
material capacity, a sheet of 1/4" steel laid through the opening and
supported on in/out feed sides with some heavy 1.5" angle should allow
you to create a solid bearing surface as flat and unbending as you
could hope for. Mounting it to the planer and the whole thing to a
strong "table" should take care of everything sabe the (possibly)
shifting cutterhead.
Is the cutter head accessible? Can you see bearings and races? If so,
might you try replacing those? Are there bearings and races on each of
the rollers? Might they be worn and sloppy as well?
Don't re-design the tool, repair it and improve on it. Removing the
rollers is not a sane and safe option (as has been said repeatedly).
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:02:33 -0600, Tom Veatch wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:58:17 +0900, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Talking of this jointer, the instruction manual says the widest stuff
>>you can work is 4". Is this a misprint? (Chinese)
>
>12.5" planer and widest is 4"? Doesn't make sense. If the manual is
>an Chinese to English translation, maybe they mean 4" thick instead of
>4" wide. IMO that would make more sense.
Sorry Tom, I've confused everyone. The thicknesser can take 6" thick
like all the Chinese 12" clones.
I've started to talk about my new 8" jointer. See my reply to greg.
jack
jack wrote...
> You wouldn't like to ship it over to me in Oz, so I can have a look at
> it, Tim?=20
Ah - I've heard of that place - that's that little desert island in the =
South Pacific, right?
> It has had little use, but really
> strenuous use. I suspect that my snipe was caused by insufficient
> outfeed support using heavy boards. I will try it with the melamine
> table inserted and much lighter, shorter boards.
Sounds like you're on the right track with the sturdier table idea. =
Might help to use a couple of roller stands, also, too help support the =
weight.
--=20
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com
"FrozenNorth" wrote...
> Suitable either for a Darwin award, or a diy missile launcher.
>=20
> "Hey Bubba, watch this...."
Makes me wonder though, how those old Craftsman 6" 103.1801 manual feed =
thickness planers worked. I think they had some sort of anti-kickpack =
danglers before and after the cutterhead, and that they were intended to =
be used by two people - one feeding, one pulling. They were open-ended, =
so you could reverse the piece and thickness a 12" board, the way a lot =
of thickness sanders are. Don't know what was used for pressure to keep =
the workpiece flat on the table. =20
--=20
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com
On Dec 23, 7:40 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
> archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
> snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
> and droop if I breathe on them.
>
> Now it occurred to me that snipe always happens on the last two inches
> of the plank (in my case - never had snipe at the beginning) and so,
> as the feed rollers are two inches from the cutter head, the snipe
> occurs when the plank has passed the infeed roller and somehow, either
> the plank lifts, or the cutterhead drops when the first roller loses
> contact.
>
> My feed rollers have always had difficulty feeding my planks (probably
> needs an adjustment, but I can't see where) and so I have always had
> to virtually push everything through the thing with 3x2s poking
> through the stand legs against a wall so I don't push the thing over.
>
> I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
> for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
> to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
> material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
> gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
> head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
> make a fine spear thrower.
> Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
My idea is that you should buy a better planer and not throw good time
and money at an inferior machine.
R
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
[...]
>I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
>for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
>to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
>material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
>gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
>head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
>make a fine spear thrower.
>Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
My first idea is that you are not, in fact, aware of the potential dangers, or
at least not as fully aware of them as you think you are. You seem to be
overlooking the fact that the feed rollers perform a second function, in
addition to feeding the stock: holding it down against the base. By removing
the feed rollers, you don't create *potential* dangers -- you create *actual*
dangers.
Realize, too, that there is no such thing as "gently allow[ing] the material
to be slowly dragged through by the cutter head." Instead, picture the
material being instantly snatched into the machine by the cutter head,
possibly dragging your hands along with it, and ejected at 60+ mph.
What you propose is highly dangerous. Don't do it. Better to spend your time
and money on better-quality equipment.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
">snip
I have a medium quality planer (Delta 22-580) that snipes on both
ends. To be fair to Delta I never tried adjusting anything but I get
by the sniping this way:
As I begin feeding the board I lift the tail end of the board
slightly, as it exits the planer I lift the front end of the board
slightly.
This easily prevents sniping on my planer and it may work on yours.
Very light pressure upwards is all it takes, just enough to keep the
board horizontal.
It works on my Delta planer too! :-)
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:40:37 +0900, [email protected] wrote:
>I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
>archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
>snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
>and droop if I breathe on them.
>
>Now it occurred to me that snipe always happens on the last two inches
>of the plank (in my case - never had snipe at the beginning) and so,
>as the feed rollers are two inches from the cutter head, the snipe
>occurs when the plank has passed the infeed roller and somehow, either
>the plank lifts, or the cutterhead drops when the first roller loses
>contact.
>
>My feed rollers have always had difficulty feeding my planks (probably
>needs an adjustment, but I can't see where) and so I have always had
>to virtually push everything through the thing with 3x2s poking
>through the stand legs against a wall so I don't push the thing over.
>
>I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
>for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
>to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
>material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
>gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
>head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
>make a fine spear thrower.
>Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
Thanks for all the warnings, folks, I really was aware of the dangers,
but was not thinking straight. I was imagining extremely light feeds,
but of course, from past experience, that is not always predictable,
as I've stalled the bloody thing once or twice, and without the
counteracting feed rollers, it would have been goodnight for whatever
was in the way, even brick walls, with the 40 lb planks I was working
on. Maybe that's why the rollers are not adjustable, in case idiots
who have my idea don't ask advice first and might adjust them away
from the work.
I will try the plank of melamine and watch what happens when snipe
occurs. Seems a following plank can cure it sometimes, which means the
cutter head moves somehow when one of the rollers becomes unloaded.
Seems snipe can be caused by several reasons and curing one thing does
not always cure the snipe. jack
Hoosierpopi wrote:
> On Dec 24, 6:26 am, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] said:
>>
>>> On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:01:47 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> .... Whatever works for you however.
>
> I lurk and pick up pointers all the time.
>
> I find this list best when folks seriously attempt to 1. understand
> the writer's question / situation and, 2. Attempt to offer sage
> constructive advice - even though its been said (and archived) many
> times before.
>
> I have a rigid Planer from HD that was on sale for $200. I've had it
> on home made stands and the floor and want to "bury" it into an
> eight
> foot long "table" such that the table surface is on the same plane
> as
> the in/out feed decks.
>
> The melamine or formica idea sounds good - but it made me think of
> that UHMF (?)
UHMW ("Ultra High Molecular Weight") or HDPE ("High Density
PolyEthylene"). You can get it 12" wide adhesive backed for not a
whole lot of money from McMaster.
> plastic stuff they sell for maing slippery jigs and of
> the "boat lumber" you can buy in 3/4" thickness that is really
> slippery and tough as nails - not to mention "pricey."
If you're talking teak it's not really all that slippery--the reason
it's used for decks is that it's got decent traction. UHMW or Teflon
would be your best bets.
> I've not experienced too much snipe, but I never plane a board cut
> to
> anything near the finished size and always take it down a "hair" at
> a
> time.
>
> I flip it from one side and end to the other (four passes per board
> per cut) to try and keep it as flat as I can as I take it down to
> the
> required thickness. As I often do multiples, this can get a bit
> confusing with six or eight boards being "processed" at a session.
> Lots of shavings (anyone have any success making mulch out of
> shavings/ sawdust?).
>
> I have my eye on the Dewalt two-speed/three-blade model and wait for
> a
> factory rebuilt or sale. Anyone use that model? Good, Great? Worth
> the four hundred plus?
>
> I would think that the rollers may have "dried" and gotten, thus, a
> bit harder and smaller than when new. Wonder if soaking them in
> something would help restore their size and grip?
>
> Re-enforcing the in/out feed tables sounds like a plan - but steel
> sounds better than wood or composites and might allow for the
> addition
> of an adjustment mechanism of some sort. Tractor Supply has lots of
> sheet steel and tube/angle/flat stock. If you can sacrifice 1/4" of
> material capacity, a sheet of 1/4" steel laid through the opening
> and
> supported on in/out feed sides with some heavy 1.5" angle should
> allow
> you to create a solid bearing surface as flat and unbending as you
> could hope for. Mounting it to the planer and the whole thing to a
> strong "table" should take care of everything sabe the (possibly)
> shifting cutterhead.
>
> Is the cutter head accessible? Can you see bearings and races? If
> so,
> might you try replacing those? Are there bearings and races on each
> of
> the rollers? Might they be worn and sloppy as well?
>
> Don't re-design the tool, repair it and improve on it. Removing the
> rollers is not a sane and safe option (as has been said repeatedly).
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:12:35 GMT, "TJ"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>jack wrote ...
>
>> Hi Tim. Yes, it's a cheapo unit, but I'm wondering what you reckon has
>> worn out. I really would like to find out what is causing snipe on
>> this thing, and seeing if there is something cheap I can do to correct
>> the error.
>
>
>IMO, snipe is inherent in a unit that isn't adjustable. On my old Craftsman planer, the bed is adjustable for parallel to the cutterhead, and the bed rollers are adjustable for height and parallel. The table gibs are adjustable. The feed rollers, presure plate, and chipbreaker are also adjustable, so the unit can be fine tuned to eliminate snipe. But it really does have to be carefully tweaked to achieve a snipe-free cut. I'm just saying having all those fine adjustments on a sturdy cast iron machine is the key here.
You wouldn't like to ship it over to me in Oz, so I can have a look at
it, Tim?
I promise I will send is back collect as soon as I'm satisfied :)
>With your unit, the cutterhead and feed roller bearings may be worn. Also, the rubber surface on the rollers could be worn. If you're force feeding the unit, you're also losing any fine tweaking that could be applied, such as lifting the ends of the board. Also, the table might be worn so it has a crown under the cutterhead. And there may be slop on the cutterhead carriage or on the table support. Any little bit of slop will give the cutterhead that slight mechanical advantage it needs to pull up the workpiece and snipe it.
Seems to be pretty tight, actually. It has had little use, but really
strenuous use. I suspect that my snipe was caused by insufficient
outfeed support using heavy boards. I will try it with the melamine
table inserted and much lighter, shorter boards.
The silly pressed sheet steel "in" and "out" feed trays are for the
scrap bin. A 3'2" melamine board will be the ticket, I hope.
>If you really are intent on salvaging the machine, I'd recommend making a flat table for it, and replacing any roller and sleeve bearings on the cutterhead and feed rollers.
I take it this is my melamine insert? I'll try this before I look at
anything else, as I said, it all seems tight with no discernable slop
in anything.
>Also check to see that there is no play in the carriage supports.
Are these the two threaded rods that raise or lower the cutter
head/motor assembly? I just tried to move the motor assembly wrt the
frame and it appeared as solid as a rock
>Also check and see what the height difference is, from the table, between the feed rollers and the cutters. Having the cutters sharpened will take a little off and may compensate for worn feed rollers.
The rollers don't appear worn much. I think I was just taking too much
off too wide, too long, too heavy and too hard boards. I will modify
my demands and present the thing with flattened top and bottom faces,
and take more, lighter cuts. I hope it works, coz her indoors thinks
I've had all my birthday/christmas presents for the next ten years :)
jack
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:01:47 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>For what it's worth, you really gain nothing by jointing both sides of
>the board, yet you can lose material in the process - not to mention
>the time and blades invested - unless the board is really gnarled.
Yes, I understand that, Greg, but in this particular instance, to
favour my poor little thicknesser, a bit of help from my burly big
jointer will make things last longer. I have a set of 3 carbide blades
to put in this when I get sick of sharpening the HSS blades.
I would even contemplate hogging some high spots off a rough sawn
board with a tailed hand planer, a non-tailed jointer, or even a belt
sander with some nice 38 grit belts I have handy :)
>I believe tradition holds that the better/flatter side is first
>jointed, along with one edge. THEN the planer is used to bring the
>opposite face parallel and to the desired dimension. Generally the
>table saw is then used to bring the other edge into line.
>Unfortunately, the process involved in planing the board to an even
>thickness can be repetitive if the wood varies in thickness
>substantially. Patience is the key, as you remove just a bit with
>each pass until the board is at the desired thickness. Sometimes the
>first few cuts on a really bad board will result in losing contact
>with the feed rollers in places, and will require assistance moving
>the material. Hogging a bunch off in one pass stresses the planer,
>dulls the blades, and often causes severe tearout. For this reason,
>your final pass on both the jointed side and the planed side should be
>a light cut (< ~1/64") to remove the undulations from the previous
>heavier cuts. Whatever works for you however.
Great advice, thanks, Greg. All the best to you and all the other
woodies for the festive season and the new year.
jack
> I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
> for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
> to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
> material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
> gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
> head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
> make a fine spear thrower.
> Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
If you do try this, PLEASE be sure to get video of it and post somewhere for
all to see.
Or have your next-of-kin do it.
Mike
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> He was talking about removing the feed rollers and manually feeding the
> work
> in the _same_ direction as the cutter head rotation.
>
Yeah I get that now, I only consider the in feed side as feed rollers. I
normally think of the outfeed rollers not so much as feed rollers but more
as extraction rollers, thanks for confirming. That would be rather
dangerous.
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:40:37 +0900, [email protected] wrote:
>I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
>archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
>snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
>and droop if I breathe on them.
>
>Now it occurred to me that snipe always happens on the last two inches
>of the plank (in my case - never had snipe at the beginning) and so,
>as the feed rollers are two inches from the cutter head, the snipe
>occurs when the plank has passed the infeed roller and somehow, either
>the plank lifts, or the cutterhead drops when the first roller loses
>contact.
>
>My feed rollers have always had difficulty feeding my planks (probably
>needs an adjustment, but I can't see where) and so I have always had
>to virtually push everything through the thing with 3x2s poking
>through the stand legs against a wall so I don't push the thing over.
>
>I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
>for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
>to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
>material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
>gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
>head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
>make a fine spear thrower.
>Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
Difficulty feeding is usually caused by dirty feed rollers. Clean
them and see if it feeds. I wouldn't operate without them working
properly. To do so is an accident waiting to happen.
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:14:50 -0500, "C & E" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
>>archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that snipes
>>everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water and droop if
>>I breathe on them.
>>
><snip>.
>> Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
>
>
>You might try filling in the underside of you in/ outfeed tables with a
>piece of MDF or something. That should stiffen them up for you but
>honestly, don't throw money at this unit. There are some adequate units
>available in the $200+ area. My Delta TP 200 was about that (obsolete now).
What I'm going to try is screwing from the underside of the base
casting a 3' x 1' piece of melamine I have. The bottom (adjustable)
rollers are not much use on this machine AFAICS and the melamine will
be much slipperier.
Much of my sniping was when i was working on 10' planks of 8" x 1.5"
jarrah. A bit of stretching the envelope, you might say. I supported
the end while I fed it in, and all was well until when I dragged the
plank out the other end over my roller stand, I would get a pronounced
snipe whatever I tried to do, and trying things with a 40# plank tires
you out rather quickly. Not pleasant, except for the joy of the grain
so exposed.
Now, most of what I want to do is some 3' lengths of this, and some 4"
x 3/4" jarrah fence palings. Or even short lengths of these for my
drawer sides (in another post). Of course, the thicknesser will not
have as much to do now, as I have an 8" jointer to clean up the rough
sawn stuff first.
Talking of this jointer, the instruction manual says the widest stuff
you can work is 4". Is this a misprint? (Chinese)
jack
In article <[email protected]>, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Realize, too, that there is no such thing as "gently allow[ing] the
>> material
>> to be slowly dragged through by the cutter head." Instead, picture the
>> material being instantly snatched into the machine by the cutter head,
>> possibly dragging your hands along with it, and ejected at 60+ mph.
>
>Un less I am seriousely mistaken about "this" machine the cutter head would
>throw the work back out at you, not pull the wood in. Neither of my planers
>would do this.
He was talking about removing the feed rollers and manually feeding the work
in the _same_ direction as the cutter head rotation.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
[email protected] said:
>The rollers don't appear worn much. I think I was just taking too much
>off too wide, too long, too heavy and too hard boards. I will modify
>my demands and present the thing with flattened top and bottom faces,
>and take more, lighter cuts. I hope it works, coz her indoors thinks
>I've had all my birthday/christmas presents for the next ten years :)
>
>jack
For what it's worth, you really gain nothing by jointing both sides of
the board, yet you can lose material in the process - not to mention
the time and blades invested - unless the board is really gnarled.
I believe tradition holds that the better/flatter side is first
jointed, along with one edge. THEN the planer is used to bring the
opposite face parallel and to the desired dimension. Generally the
table saw is then used to bring the other edge into line.
Unfortunately, the process involved in planing the board to an even
thickness can be repetitive if the wood varies in thickness
substantially. Patience is the key, as you remove just a bit with
each pass until the board is at the desired thickness. Sometimes the
first few cuts on a really bad board will result in losing contact
with the feed rollers in places, and will require assistance moving
the material. Hogging a bunch off in one pass stresses the planer,
dulls the blades, and often causes severe tearout. For this reason,
your final pass on both the jointed side and the planed side should be
a light cut (< ~1/64") to remove the undulations from the previous
heavier cuts. Whatever works for you however.
FWIW,
Greg G.
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:58:02 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Dec 23, 7:40 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
>> archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
>> snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
>> and droop if I breathe on them.
>>
>> Now it occurred to me that snipe always happens on the last two inches
>> of the plank (in my case - never had snipe at the beginning) and so,
>> as the feed rollers are two inches from the cutter head, the snipe
>> occurs when the plank has passed the infeed roller and somehow, either
>> the plank lifts, or the cutterhead drops when the first roller loses
>> contact.
>>
>> My feed rollers have always had difficulty feeding my planks (probably
>> needs an adjustment, but I can't see where) and so I have always had
>> to virtually push everything through the thing with 3x2s poking
>> through the stand legs against a wall so I don't push the thing over.
>>
>> I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle
>> for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine
>> to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push
>> material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even
>> gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter
>> head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will
>> make a fine spear thrower.
>> Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?
>
>My idea is that you should buy a better planer and not throw good time
>and money at an inferior machine.
>
>R
The chinese stuff is at best considered a "kit" to be totally
dissassembled, finished, and reassembled. Usually involves remaking
some parts.
Spend your time and money more wisely and just get something decent to
start with.
The chinese one is almost as good a boat anchor as a planer.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:59:26 -0500, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] said:
>
>>Now, most of what I want to do is some 3' lengths of this, and some 4"
>>x 3/4" jarrah fence palings. Or even short lengths of these for my
>>drawer sides (in another post). Of course, the thicknesser will not
>>have as much to do now, as I have an 8" jointer to clean up the rough
>>sawn stuff first.
>
>Aside from really pushing the envelope of what this unit was designed
>to handle, it is of questionable heritage. I would be shopping for a
>replacement while the holiday sales are ongoing.
I wish I could, but I think I'm close to the limit of the connubial
friendship, if you know what I mean.
>That said, however, you could take a shot at tuning it up.
>Make sure there is no play in the cutterhead bearings or the feed
>rollers - repair or "fix" what is necessary. Use a flat surface
>inserted into the planer bed (power removed), adjust the thickness
>adjustment until there is a small clearance, and use feeler gauges to
>check the clearances of the various rollers and blades - they must all
>be parallel to the flat surface. Clean the rollers, or replace if they
>are chewed up. Their diameter and resiliency are somewhat critical.
>
>If the blades do not self-register when installing, try installing
>them a little less proud. In other words, set them closer to the
>centerline of the cutterhead. that should allow the feed rollers to
>get a little more bite. The rollers not only provide feed assistance,
>they hold the board against the bed securely.
>
>Snipe generally occurs when a board is not held down against the
>planer bed by both rollers - which is when first entering or exiting
>the cutting/holddown/feedroller assembly. Make certain that boards
>fed into the unit remain above the plane of the planer bed - they must
>not droop AT ALL or it will snipe. Heavier and longer boards are
>increasingly susceptible to this. I usually lift the ends of entering
>and exiting boards with one finger to eliminate the snipe originating
>from this design "feature". If you use roller stands, they must be
>very carefully adjusted, under load, to be at or slightly above the
>planer bed. Everything must also be absolutely level; in other words,
>both the planer bed and the roller stands must be parallel, not
>slightly lower on one side or the other.
Great advice, thanks. I'll look at all of this. Now that I have a
jointer to really flatten my boards, the thicknesser is going to have
a much easier life. The rollers don't look too chewed up, and seem
still plyable.
>>Talking of this jointer, the instruction manual says the widest stuff
>>you can work is 4". Is this a misprint? (Chinese)
>
>Probably means thickness, not width - what would be the point of it
>being a 12" planer. :-o
Thanks Greg
Sorry for the confusion, the jointer is a new 8" which will take much
of my previous work away from my old thicknesser. The instruction
manual on it says:
"6. DO NOT perform planing operations on material shorter than 8",
narrower than 3/4", wider than 4" , or thinner than 1/2".
Notwithstanding that I don't know what the difference between thinness
and narrowness is, I assume this is a typo.
The jointing proscription does not include a width maximum, so I will
just pretend that I am really jointing anything over 4" wide :)
jack
<?> wrote...
>I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the
> archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that
> snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water
> and droop if I breathe on them.=20
IMO, cheapo unit + worn out =3D time for a new one.
As the other guys said, removing the feed rollers is crazy talk.
As far as snipe goes, prolly safest and easiest to rough cut to length =
4-1/2" over.
And, since it's always fun to share machine porn, I'd like to add that =
my Craftsman 12" planer is maybe starting to get a little old, but =
doesn't snipe, and isn't near worn out yet:
http://www.tjwoodworking.com/prks02.jpg
--=20
Timothy Juvenal
www.tjwoodworking.com
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:38:07 -0600, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Realize, too, that there is no such thing as "gently allow[ing] the
>> material
>> to be slowly dragged through by the cutter head." Instead, picture the
>> material being instantly snatched into the machine by the cutter head,
>> possibly dragging your hands along with it, and ejected at 60+ mph.
>
>Un less I am seriousely mistaken about "this" machine the cutter head would
>throw the work back out at you, not pull the wood in. Neither of my planers
>would do this.
'Pends what end you put it in, doesn't it?
jack
"Charley" wrote
> Using a piece of melamine for a feeder bed will help with feeding and it
> will reduce snipe some, but I have had the best success by inserting a
> piece
> of scrap wood of the same thickness immediately following the good piece
> of
> wood. Butt the ends together and don't leave any gaps. If you do this
> right
> the planer will think it's running a longer board and the snipe will occur
> on the scrap piece. All planers produce snipe. The better quality planers
> produce less. My newest planer, a DeWalt 735, was supposed to be snipe
> free
> according to the salesman. It's much better about snipe than my older
> planer, but it still snipes, however, it's so little (a few thousandths)
> that it can usually be sanded out very easily, so I still follow up my
> good
> boards with a piece of scrap if I really don't want any snipe in my
> boards.
Good advice, especially when preparing/planing expensive material when you
can't afford to lose any of that precious figured stock to snipe. Having to
sand out even the smallest bit of snipe can really throw off future joinery
operations, and play havoc with the fit of things like M&T joinery down the
road.
As others have noted, and in normal operation, I usually set the very ends
of both infeed and outfeed tables on my jointer a bit higher than level
(tapering both tables slightly downward to be flush with the planer bed),
and even doing that it is often necessary to lift the ends of the stock
slightly on entrance and exit.
To illustrate, and when I really can't afford to have any snipe whatsoever,
I build a quick n' dirty planer jig similar to the one on my Jigs & Fixtures
page, and feed the whole enchilada through the planer, with both leading and
trailing sacrificial stock of an appropriate thickness that will take the
snipe if I screw up the feed angle:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/Jigs.htm - (scroll down to "planer jig").
The one pictured was built for a very specific purpose (taking a slight,
after-the-fact ,warp out of some already assembled inset door frames), but
the idea is obviously adaptable for many situations where _no_ snipe is of
paramount important.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)