Dovetail saws?

John,

I gather that L-N stands for Lie Nelson.............is this correct? If so,
which one of their saws do you have? Regards. -Guy



"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've spent a few hours doing research on dovetail saws awhile back and
got
> > totally confused. So I thought I would just order one and see how it
> feels.
> > So I ordered a Pax dovetail saw with a rip cut. I find it a little
> > uncomfortable. Sometimes I think the Japanese style would have a more
> > comfortable feel. Does anyone know what kind of a reputation the Pax
saws
> > have? For those of you who do dovetails by hand what do you find is the
> best
> > saw? Does spending more money get you a better saw or does it just look
> > better? Regards. -Guy
> >
>
> The L-N dovetail saw works great right out of the box. Relatively
expensive
> but after using it a bit I found that it works so well that the price was
> insignificant compared to the frustration I experienced with using a
couple
> inexpensive saws.
>
> John
>
>

"Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I've spent a few hours doing research on dovetail saws awhile back and got
> totally confused. So I thought I would just order one and see how it
feels.
> So I ordered a Pax dovetail saw with a rip cut. I find it a little
> uncomfortable. Sometimes I think the Japanese style would have a more
> comfortable feel. Does anyone know what kind of a reputation the Pax saws
> have? For those of you who do dovetails by hand what do you find is the
best
> saw? Does spending more money get you a better saw or does it just look
> better? Regards. -Guy
>

The L-N dovetail saw works great right out of the box. Relatively expensive
but after using it a bit I found that it works so well that the price was
insignificant compared to the frustration I experienced with using a couple
inexpensive saws.

John

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:43:09 -0600, "Guy LaRochelle"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I've spent a few hours doing research on dovetail saws awhile back and got
>totally confused. So I thought I would just order one and see how it feels.
>So I ordered a Pax dovetail saw with a rip cut. I find it a little
>uncomfortable. Sometimes I think the Japanese style would have a more
>comfortable feel. Does anyone know what kind of a reputation the Pax saws
>have? For those of you who do dovetails by hand what do you find is the best
>saw? Does spending more money get you a better saw or does it just look
>better? Regards. -Guy
>


I have a Craftsman dovetail saw that I purchased 20 years ago. The
wooden handle fell off after 10 years of use, but I epoxied back on
and it has not come off since. I'm still using it to cut dovetails,
dowel rods, and other small cuts. I have two Japanese saws too, but I
find myself reaching for the Craftsman most of the time. You can even
try using a hacksaw to cut dovetails (it did not work so well for me).

Me too!

And I'm not sure why, but I'll probably order the rip cut carcass saw.

OBTW, I sharpened the dovetail saw yesterday. It was the second time in the
two years I've had the saw. There's been no deterioration in performance
yet. I'll probably send it back to them next time.


"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > John,
> >
> > I gather that L-N stands for Lie Nelson.............is this correct? If
> so,
> > which one of their saws do you have? Regards. -Guy
>
> Yes Lie-Nielsen. I've actually got a couple L-N saws. The one for cutting
> the dovetails with the grain is the one labeled Dovetail Saw 15 ppi with
rip
> tooth pattern. I also have the Carcass Saw 14 ppi with the cross-cut tooth
> pattern that with dovetails I use for cutting the waste from the ends of
the
> pin boards. I also use the Carcass saw for handcut daddos and shoulder
cuts
> on tennons.
>
> After getting the Dovetail saw and experiencing it I almost immediately
> ordered the Carcass saw... The performance spoke for itself! ;-)
>
> John
>
>

On Fri 27 Feb 2004 05:43:09p, "Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]>
wrote in news:[email protected]:

> 've spent a few hours doing research on dovetail saws awhile back and
> got totally confused. So I thought I would just order one and see how
> it feels. So I ordered a Pax dovetail saw with a rip cut. I find it a
> little uncomfortable.

By "uncomfortable", do you mean your hand doesn't fit the grip? I think all
dovetail saws are supposed to be held with your index finger pointed
straight out down the blade, not inside the grip, so you have better
control. Those things are built for precision instead of power or speed.

>Sometimes I think the Japanese style would have
> a more comfortable feel. Does anyone know what kind of a reputation
> the Pax saws have?

I've heard good things about 'em.

>For those of you who do dovetails by hand what do
> you find is the best saw?

The only one I have is the gent's dovetail saw from Woodcraft. I've made a
practice dovetail with it, using Frank Klausz's video. Came out pretty good
for first try. I'm planning on doing it for real this summer. Get yerself
out to your local library and see if they've got "Dovetail a drawer" by
Frank Klausz. I ended up buying it. He's got good vids. :-)

>Does spending more money get you a better
> saw or does it just look better? Regards. -Guy

In my own humble opinion, both. But the gent's is enough for me till I
start cranking out drawers by the dozen. Or until I have every tool I need
and I graduate to the "now I need really pretty bling-bling type tools"
level.

Dan

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:52:47 GMT, B a r r y
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Early class time is spent removing every other tooth and refilling the
>remaining teeth to a flat profile. What's left is a 7 or 8 TPI saw
>with very little set, and a flat raker tooth profile.

_Why_ in heaven's name !?

I quite like the "recutting the cheap saw" idea, but this is the wrong
starting point. There are plenty of saws you could start with that
already have the right pitch and a thicker base material. Although a
dovetail saw does need to have minimal set, there's no need for it to
be a thin blade. Recutting to the extent of removing alternate teeth
is hard work. These saw blades are also too thin for real bench use.
They're handy when you need a thin kerf and can live with their
fragility, but that's not an issue for dovetails.

Using a dovetail saw is a skilled task, especially when it has minimal
set -- Although it's arguable that heavy set is no better either, it
just feels as if you ought to be able to recover a wandering line.
Part of this skill is in having good control over the angle the saw's
cutting at. I don't see a rod-type handle like this as being
particularly helpful. A bow-shaped saw handle gives much better
control over torque and thus "steering".
--
Smert' spamionam

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:26:19 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:52:47 GMT, B a r r y
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Early class time is spent removing every other tooth and refilling the
>>remaining teeth to a flat profile. What's left is a 7 or 8 TPI saw
>>with very little set, and a flat raker tooth profile.
>
>_Why_ in heaven's name !?
>

You'd have to ask Mario. <G>

Barry

"Guy LaRochelle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John,
>
> I gather that L-N stands for Lie Nelson.............is this correct? If
so,
> which one of their saws do you have? Regards. -Guy

Yes Lie-Nielsen. I've actually got a couple L-N saws. The one for cutting
the dovetails with the grain is the one labeled Dovetail Saw 15 ppi with rip
tooth pattern. I also have the Carcass Saw 14 ppi with the cross-cut tooth
pattern that with dovetails I use for cutting the waste from the ends of the
pin boards. I also use the Carcass saw for handcut daddos and shoulder cuts
on tennons.

After getting the Dovetail saw and experiencing it I almost immediately
ordered the Carcass saw... The performance spoke for itself! ;-)

John

"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Me too!
>
> And I'm not sure why, but I'll probably order the rip cut carcass saw.
>
> OBTW, I sharpened the dovetail saw yesterday. It was the second time in
the
> two years I've had the saw. There's been no deterioration in performance
> yet. I'll probably send it back to them next time.
>

Rather than the rip cut carcass saw I'm leaning towards the rip cut tenon
saw. A bit heavier saw (.032 thick vs. .020) would be more appropriate for
cutting tennons. The cross cut carcass saw I have should continue be fine
for the shoulder cuts.

John

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:43:09 -0600, "Guy LaRochelle"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Does spending more money get you a better saw or does it just look
>better? Regards. -Guy
>

At one of the local schools, Mario Rodriguez occasionally teaches a
dovetailing class. The materials fee for the class includes something
similar to "A" in the photo below:

<http://shop.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/product_family.asp?family%5Fid=843&gift=False&0=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D10000%26Tree%3D%2CDepartments&1=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D1040%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D0%2CSaws&2=dept%2Easp%2Cdept%5Fid%3D2124%26menu%5Fid%3D%26Tree%3D1%2CHandsaws&Gift=False&mscssid=0E538DC7515854C0299639C7E5BE84C3>

Early class time is spent removing every other tooth and refilling the
remaining teeth to a flat profile. What's left is a 7 or 8 TPI saw
with very little set, and a flat raker tooth profile. I know several
who have taken the class and wouldn't trade the cheapie saw for
anything once they've done the modifications. The modified saw cuts
straight, clean, and very quickly.

Barry