I decided not to post as OT.
Background: I was an Aviation Cadet at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas in early
January and February of 1953. I was in the barracks bay of a very special Airman. He
had been in the Korean Conflict and had earned a Medal of Honor for his actions as a
gunner aboard a 2-engined boomer in Korea. I was in the same barracks as he was. All
there knew of his medal and fully respected him for for his bravery in combat.
One day, a very uptight and very starched, 2nd Lt.. was walking towards us on the way
to chow. We were 2nd classmen by then. I was just behind the airman in question.
As per the orders, I saluted the officer and held my salute.
The airman ahead of me did not solute the officer. I held my solute.
The officer called Halt. We both stopped. The officer ask, very forcefully, why the
airman did not salute him.
The Airman ahead of me slowly raised his left arm and hand and pointed across to his
chest to his Medal of Honor medal.
The officer came to a very full brach and held it.
After a minute or so, the airman returned his salute.
I held my salute until the officer replied.
I never knew of the history of that officer or that Airman.
On this Memorial Day, I salute that airman.
He is a hero to me.
Hoyt W.
<<snippage about an airman, a 2LT and a CMH
>
> The most common myth is that military personnel are required to initiate a
> salute to a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank. Hudner said
> another myth is that medal recipients are prevented from returning to
> combat."
>
>
Very true...the lower rank is required to salute first...
...However, I HAVE seen some fairly high ranking officers, upon realizing
that they were in the presence of a CMH "winner", working very fast indeed,
to be able to salute first. The medal, if not the man.
As to the second point, the exact thing that brings a man to do something
that is "worth" a CMH is much the same thing that makes him go back...if he
can, that is. I hope someone can check me on this, but 20-some years ago
when I was in the USN, I heard from someone I trusted, but can't vouch for,
that over 65% of CMH medals were posthumously awarded.
Accurate? No? Help me out here, Gang.
Mike
The Davenports ask:
>As to the second point, the exact thing that brings a man to do something
>that is "worth" a CMH is much the same thing that makes him go back...if he
>can, that is. I hope someone can check me on this, but 20-some years ago
>when I was in the USN, I heard from someone I trusted, but can't vouch for,
>that over 65% of CMH medals were posthumously awarded.
>
>Accurate? No?
I couldn't find it. The CMH was first awarded during the Civil War, with over
1500 citations--the only award for valor. 25 of those awards were posthumous.
There were only 238 CMH awards during the entire Vietnam Award, long after it
became the nation's leading honor for valor. A more accurate comparision might
be between posthumous WWII awards and Civil War awards, but I didn't find one.
Did you know there were 19 double Congressional Award winners? That is truly
astonishing.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
On 01 Jun 2004 08:51:56 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote:
<snip>
>
>Did you know there were 19 double Congressional Award winners? That is truly
>astonishing.
>
Charlie,
Five of the double awards came during the time that the Navy Medal and the Army Medal were considered to be separate awards. If you
read the citations, they were both awarded for the same action and would, today, be cause for only one award. Please be aware that I
am not denigrating the recipients in any way. There are indeed 14 recipients who received two awards of the Medal for entirely
separate actions. And, as you say, that is truly astonishing - and humbling.
You can read the citations at:
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS USA
In rec.woodworking
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote:
>The Davenports ask:
>
>>As to the second point, the exact thing that brings a man to do something
>>that is "worth" a CMH is much the same thing that makes him go back...if he
>>can, that is. I hope someone can check me on this, but 20-some years ago
>>when I was in the USN, I heard from someone I trusted, but can't vouch for,
>>that over 65% of CMH medals were posthumously awarded.
>>
>>Accurate? No?
>
>I couldn't find it. The CMH was first awarded during the Civil War, with over
>1500 citations--the only award for valor. 25 of those awards were posthumous.
>There were only 238 CMH awards during the entire Vietnam Award, long after it
>became the nation's leading honor for valor. A more accurate comparision might
>be between posthumous WWII awards and Civil War awards, but I didn't find one.
The stats are on this site:
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohstats.htm
17.7% were awarded posthumously. 614 of 3459
I too had a Marine Officer in Subic Bay walk across a busy street and chew
me out as I didn't render a salute to him when he was on one side and I was
on the other. he was a junior office so I cut him some slack and gave him
what he wanted. Some officers are very insecure.
Ross
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> that second Louie wasn't as much of an AH as the idiot that
> stopped me outside the PX at Luke AFB one hot afternoon to
> read me the riot act for not saluting his highness.
>
>
> I might add that BOTH my arms were full of packages that I
> had just purchased...sigh.
>
>
> dave
>
> Hoyt Weathers wrote:
>
> > I decided not to post as OT.
> >
> > Background: I was an Aviation Cadet at Lackland AFB in San Antonio,
Texas in early
> > January and February of 1953. I was in the barracks bay of a very
special Airman. He
> > had been in the Korean Conflict and had earned a Medal of Honor for his
actions as a
> > gunner aboard a 2-engined boomer in Korea. I was in the same barracks as
he was. All
> > there knew of his medal and fully respected him for for his bravery in
combat.
> >
> > One day, a very uptight and very starched, 2nd Lt.. was walking towards
us on the way
> > to chow. We were 2nd classmen by then. I was just behind the airman in
question.
> >
> > As per the orders, I saluted the officer and held my salute.
> >
> > The airman ahead of me did not solute the officer. I held my solute.
> >
> > The officer called Halt. We both stopped. The officer ask, very
forcefully, why the
> > airman did not salute him.
> > The Airman ahead of me slowly raised his left arm and hand and pointed
across to his
> > chest to his Medal of Honor medal.
> >
> > The officer came to a very full brach and held it.
> >
> > After a minute or so, the airman returned his salute.
> >
> > I held my salute until the officer replied.
> >
> > I never knew of the history of that officer or that Airman.
> >
> > On this Memorial Day, I salute that airman.
> >
> > He is a hero to me.
> >
> > Hoyt W.
> >
> >
> >
>
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> that second Louie wasn't as much of an AH as the idiot that stopped me
> outside the PX at Luke AFB one hot afternoon to read me the riot act for
> not saluting his highness.
>
>
> I might add that BOTH my arms were full of packages that I had just
> purchased...sigh.
According to _my_ copy of the B.M.R. (NAVEDTRA 14325) Chapter Nine, Page
9 Saluting a superior is not required:
"When carrying articles with both hands, or otherwise occupied making
saluting impracticable"
--
ITSN Gunterman
NAVSUPACT MID-SOUTH
http://www.shavings.net/creed.htm
that's pretty much what I told the second Louie, and his
response was that I should have made sure my right arm was
"free" to salute. At that point I knew I was dealing with a
total moron and said nothing more.
dave
JG wrote:
>
>
> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>> that second Louie wasn't as much of an AH as the idiot that stopped me
>> outside the PX at Luke AFB one hot afternoon to read me the riot act
>> for not saluting his highness.
>>
>>
>> I might add that BOTH my arms were full of packages that I had just
>> purchased...sigh.
>
>
>
> According to _my_ copy of the B.M.R. (NAVEDTRA 14325) Chapter Nine, Page
> 9 Saluting a superior is not required:
>
> "When carrying articles with both hands, or otherwise occupied making
> saluting impracticable"
>
>
> --
> ITSN Gunterman
> NAVSUPACT MID-SOUTH
> http://www.shavings.net/creed.htm
>
Bruce wrote:
> In rec.woodworking
> Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I decided not to post as OT.
> >
> >Background: I was an Aviation Cadet at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas in early
> >January and February of 1953. I was in the barracks bay of a very special Airman. He
> >had been in the Korean Conflict and had earned a Medal of Honor for his actions as a
> >gunner aboard a 2-engined boomer in Korea. I was in the same barracks as he was. All
> >there knew of his medal and fully respected him for for his bravery in combat.
> >
> >One day, a very uptight and very starched, 2nd Lt.. was walking towards us on the way
> >to chow. We were 2nd classmen by then. I was just behind the airman in question.
> >
> >As per the orders, I saluted the officer and held my salute.
> >
> >The airman ahead of me did not solute the officer. I held my solute.
> >
> >The officer called Halt. We both stopped. The officer ask, very forcefully, why the
> >airman did not salute him.
> >The Airman ahead of me slowly raised his left arm and hand and pointed across to his
> >chest to his Medal of Honor medal.
> >
> >The officer came to a very full brach and held it.
> >
> >After a minute or so, the airman returned his salute.
> >
> >I held my salute until the officer replied.
> >
> >I never knew of the history of that officer or that Airman.
> >
> >On this Memorial Day, I salute that airman.
> >
> >He is a hero to me.
>
> Strangely enough, there are no airmen that won a Medal Of Honor in the
> Korean conflict. There were 4 given to Air Force officers. This sounds
> like an urban legend to me.
>
> http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohkor2.htm
>
> Additionally, he would still be required to salute the Lt.
>
> http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=7807
>
> "Even with its widespread recognition, there are still a number of
> erroneous beliefs about the medal and its recipients.
>
> Theres nothing in the Navy regulations that makes any mention of the
> Medal of Honor except for its order of precedence on the uniform, said
> Hudner.
>
> The most common myth is that military personnel are required to initiate a
> salute to a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank. Hudner said
> another myth is that medal recipients are prevented from returning to
> combat
You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I stand by my word.
Pull your head out.
Hoyt W.
Hoy Weathers responds:
>> Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >I decided not to post as OT.
>> >
>> >Background: I was an Aviation Cadet at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas
>in early
>> >January and February of 1953. I was in the barracks bay of a very special
>Airman. He
>> >had been in the Korean Conflict and had earned a Medal of Honor for his
>actions as a
>> >gunner aboard a 2-engined boomer in Korea. I was in the same barracks as
>he was. All
>> >there knew of his medal and fully respected him for for his bravery in
>combat.
>> >
>> >One day, a very uptight and very starched, 2nd Lt.. was walking towards us
>on the way
>> >to chow. We were 2nd classmen by then. I was just behind the airman in
>question.
>> >
>> >As per the orders, I saluted the officer and held my salute.
>> >
>> >The airman ahead of me did not solute the officer. I held my solute.
>> >
>> >The officer called Halt. We both stopped. The officer ask, very
>forcefully, why the
>> >airman did not salute him.
>> >The Airman ahead of me slowly raised his left arm and hand and pointed
>across to his
>> >chest to his Medal of Honor medal.
>> >
>> >The officer came to a very full brach and held it.
>> >
>> >After a minute or so, the airman returned his salute.
>> >
>> >I held my salute until the officer replied.
>> >
>> >I never knew of the history of that officer or that Airman.
>> >
>> >On this Memorial Day, I salute that airman.
>> >
>> >He is a hero to me.
>>
>> Strangely enough, there are no airmen that won a Medal Of Honor in the
>> Korean conflict. There were 4 given to Air Force officers. This sounds
>> like an urban legend to me.
>>
>> http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohkor2.htm
>>
>> Additionally, he would still be required to salute the Lt.
>>
>> http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=7807
>>
>> "Even with itâs widespread recognition, there are still a number of
>> erroneous beliefs about the medal and its recipients.
>>
>> âThereâs nothing in the Navy regulations that makes any mention of the
>> Medal of Honor except for its order of precedence on the uniform,â said
>> Hudner.
>>
>> The most common myth is that military personnel are required to initiate a
>> salute to a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank. Hudner said
>> another myth is that medal recipients are prevented from returning to
>> combat
>
>You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I stand
>by my word.
>Pull your head out.
Quite probably it was an Army or Navy CMH. There were no awards of Air Force
CMHs until Vietnam...I think it didn't exist as a separate entity until then,
but I don't know for sure.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
In rec.woodworking
Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>I decided not to post as OT.
>
>Background: I was an Aviation Cadet at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas in early
>January and February of 1953. I was in the barracks bay of a very special Airman. He
>had been in the Korean Conflict and had earned a Medal of Honor for his actions as a
>gunner aboard a 2-engined boomer in Korea. I was in the same barracks as he was. All
>there knew of his medal and fully respected him for for his bravery in combat.
>
>One day, a very uptight and very starched, 2nd Lt.. was walking towards us on the way
>to chow. We were 2nd classmen by then. I was just behind the airman in question.
>
>As per the orders, I saluted the officer and held my salute.
>
>The airman ahead of me did not solute the officer. I held my solute.
>
>The officer called Halt. We both stopped. The officer ask, very forcefully, why the
>airman did not salute him.
>The Airman ahead of me slowly raised his left arm and hand and pointed across to his
>chest to his Medal of Honor medal.
>
>The officer came to a very full brach and held it.
>
>After a minute or so, the airman returned his salute.
>
>I held my salute until the officer replied.
>
>I never knew of the history of that officer or that Airman.
>
>On this Memorial Day, I salute that airman.
>
>He is a hero to me.
Strangely enough, there are no airmen that won a Medal Of Honor in the
Korean conflict. There were 4 given to Air Force officers. This sounds
like an urban legend to me.
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohkor2.htm
Additionally, he would still be required to salute the Lt.
http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=7807
"Even with its widespread recognition, there are still a number of
erroneous beliefs about the medal and its recipients.
Theres nothing in the Navy regulations that makes any mention of the
Medal of Honor except for its order of precedence on the uniform, said
Hudner.
The most common myth is that military personnel are required to initiate a
salute to a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank. Hudner said
another myth is that medal recipients are prevented from returning to
combat."
In rec.woodworking
Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I stand by my word.
>Pull your head out.
Pull my head out? I gave the US GOVERNMENT websites that prove your wrong
about the medal winner. I can't prove the Lt didn't salute the phantom
medal winner but if he did, I proved he was wrong too.
Bruce responds:
>>You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I
>stand by my word.
>>Pull your head out.
>
>Pull my head out? I gave the US GOVERNMENT websites that prove your wrong
>about the medal winner.
According to http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/war/1_a_main.html there were 4 Air
Force CMH awards during the Korean War.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bruce responds:
> >>You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I
> >stand by my word.
> >>Pull your head out.
> >
> >Pull my head out? I gave the US GOVERNMENT websites that prove your
wrong
> >about the medal winner.
>
> According to http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/war/1_a_main.html there were
4 Air
> Force CMH awards during the Korean War.
and all of them were awarded posthumously according to your site..
randy
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote:
>Bruce responds:
>>>You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I
>>stand by my word.
>>>Pull your head out.
>>
>>Pull my head out? I gave the US GOVERNMENT websites that prove your wrong
>>about the medal winner.
>
>According to http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/war/1_a_main.html there were 4 Air
>Force CMH awards during the Korean War.
>
But all to officers (none to airmen), and all posthumously.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Doug Miller writes:
>>According to http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/war/1_a_main.html there were 4
>Air
>>Force CMH awards during the Korean War.
>>
>But all to officers (none to airmen), and all posthumously.
>
Yabbut there were a number of cross-service awards then and earlier. Navy and
Army records show sort of a cross-reporting, and, in fact, of the 19 double
winners, 4 were actually duoble reports by different services.
In other words, it is at least a possibility. I'm not about to jump on someone
over that kind of thing.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:21:03 GMT, JG <[email protected]> stated
wide-eyed, with arms akimbo:
>
>
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>>At least I'm (personally) "Ineligible for Activation" for another 14
>>>Months.....
>>
>>
>> Oh, SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE you are. That's why you had to get the
>> shots and have the DNA test.
>
>At least I can do my job from anywhere in the world, I don't _NEED_ to
>be 100 miles off the coast or even on shore. It's good to be a "super-geek"
That's good, and it reminds me of a sticker I saw today.
"Talk Nerdy To Me"
--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites
Larry Jaques wrote:
>>At least I'm (personally) "Ineligible for Activation" for another 14
>>Months.....
>
>
> Oh, SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE you are. That's why you had to get the
> shots and have the DNA test.
At least I can do my job from anywhere in the world, I don't _NEED_ to
be 100 miles off the coast or even on shore. It's good to be a "super-geek"
--
--
John G. in Memphis, TN Have a nice......... night.
http://www.shavings.net/images/Memphis/reflect_john.jpg
In rec.woodworking
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> In other words, it is at least a possibility. I'm not about to jump on
>someone
>> over that kind of thing.
>
>Even more important, why is an argument being created out of this? Whether
>true or not, this myth or truth whichever it is, should be taken as an
>honourable reflection of what the CHB means. Hell, even I can see that and
>I'm not American.
Oh please, there are plenty of TRUE heroic stories out there that we could
read to honor soldiers. We don't need some story about a guy trying to rub
an officers face in the dirt that isn't true. I'm not trying to argue with
the guy but I don't appreciate BS being passed off as fact. It sounded
like BS too me the minute I read it and that is why I checked the facts.
If I don't call it BS, you have 500 guys going to the office today telling
an incorrect story.
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 19:26:15 GMT, JG <[email protected]> stated
wide-eyed, with arms akimbo:
>xrongor wrote:
> > lets just toss the truth out in favor of the 'greater good'. hey,
>> isnt that why we are in iraq in the first place?
>
>Don't even take this thread there!!!
>
>"they" say my unit is not getting activated, but last drill weekend I
>got 7 shots, complete long form medical _and_ had my DNA record done..
>But we aren't getting activated, nope, no sir... so "they" say.
>
>At least I'm (personally) "Ineligible for Activation" for another 14
>Months.....
Oh, SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE you are. That's why you had to get the
shots and have the DNA test.
They'll have you over there by next month, helping the Iraquis build
spokshaves. Y'know, those weapons of lath construction. <groan>
Best of luck, Guntie.
--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ki%[email protected]...
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > In other words, it is at least a possibility. I'm not about to jump on
> someone
> > over that kind of thing.
>
> Even more important, why is an argument being created out of this? Whether
> true or not, this myth or truth whichever it is, should be taken as an
> honourable reflection of what the CHB means. Hell, even I can see that and
> I'm not American.
first off, i must say that i think the medal winner sounds like he was being
an ass. if i were a medal winner i would like to think i wouldnt have acted
like that. i have no affiliation to the military though and i realize there
is a heirchy there involving primal rituals that i really dont want to
understand....
but ya. lets just toss the truth out in favor of the 'greater good'. hey,
isnt that why we are in iraq in the first place?
randy
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> In other words, it is at least a possibility. I'm not about to jump on
someone
> over that kind of thing.
Even more important, why is an argument being created out of this? Whether
true or not, this myth or truth whichever it is, should be taken as an
honourable reflection of what the CHB means. Hell, even I can see that and
I'm not American.
xrongor wrote:
> lets just toss the truth out in favor of the 'greater good'. hey,
> isnt that why we are in iraq in the first place?
Don't even take this thread there!!!
"they" say my unit is not getting activated, but last drill weekend I
got 7 shots, complete long form medical _and_ had my DNA record done..
But we aren't getting activated, nope, no sir... so "they" say.
At least I'm (personally) "Ineligible for Activation" for another 14
Months.....
--
--
John G. in Memphis, TN Have a nice......... night.
http://www.shavings.net/images/Memphis/reflect_john.jpg
JG responds:
> > lets just toss the truth out in favor of the 'greater good'. hey,
>> isnt that why we are in iraq in the first place?
>
>Don't even take this thread there!!!
>
>"they" say my unit is not getting activated, but last drill weekend I
>got 7 shots, complete long form medical _and_ had my DNA record done..
>But we aren't getting activated, nope, no sir... so "they" say.
>
>At least I'm (personally) "Ineligible for Activation" for another 14
>Months.....
>
Don't take that to the bank. There are a bunch of people on extended duty tours
now who thought that they'd be home after a specific number of months, and
there are a bunch of people at home who will be going back, though they were
told that possibility was remote when all this started.
One way to defeat under and unemployment, a new draft law?
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
Charlie Self wrote:
> JG responds:
>>At least I'm (personally) "Ineligible for Activation" for another 14
>>Months.....
> Don't take that to the bank.
It's a medical waiver, in writing, counter-signed by a Lt. Col.
> There are a bunch of people on extended duty tours
> now who thought that they'd be home after a specific number of months, and
> there are a bunch of people at home who will be going back, though they were
> told that possibility was remote when all this started.
I know many of those folks. last month TWO people just from my shift at
the Police Department just got activated. for one of them this will be
his _4th_ trip over.
--
John G. in Memphis, TN Have a nice......... night.
http://www.shavings.net/images/Memphis/reflect_john.jpg
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:16:17 GMT, JG <[email protected]> stated
wide-eyed, with arms akimbo:
>
>
>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>> JG responds:
>
>>>At least I'm (personally) "Ineligible for Activation" for another 14
>>>Months.....
>> Don't take that to the bank.
>
>It's a medical waiver, in writing, counter-signed by a Lt. Col.
Is that where they wave the paper at you and tell you it ain't
worth the ink it was written in? (What the general wants, the
general gets.) =:0
>> There are a bunch of people on extended duty tours
>> now who thought that they'd be home after a specific number of months, and
>> there are a bunch of people at home who will be going back, though they were
>> told that possibility was remote when all this started.
>
>I know many of those folks. last month TWO people just from my shift at
>the Police Department just got activated. for one of them this will be
>his _4th_ trip over.
Ouch! And he doesn't glow in the dark yet? (Yes, I know that nearly
50% of the studies about DU say it won't hurt you, but the other
half...)
--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites
You must have been smoking some pretty good stuff, Hoyt;
there were 3 majors and a captain in the AF that received
the Medal of Honor during the Korean Conflict. No enlisted
personnel in the AF are listed. Nice try. got any more war
stories for us? Any that are true??
dave
Hoyt Weathers wrote:
> Bruce wrote:
>
>
>>In rec.woodworking
>>Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I decided not to post as OT.
>>>
>>>Background: I was an Aviation Cadet at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas in early
>>>January and February of 1953. I was in the barracks bay of a very special Airman. He
>>>had been in the Korean Conflict and had earned a Medal of Honor for his actions as a
>>>gunner aboard a 2-engined boomer in Korea. I was in the same barracks as he was. All
>>>there knew of his medal and fully respected him for for his bravery in combat.
>>>
>>>One day, a very uptight and very starched, 2nd Lt.. was walking towards us on the way
>>>to chow. We were 2nd classmen by then. I was just behind the airman in question.
>>>
>>>As per the orders, I saluted the officer and held my salute.
>>>
>>>The airman ahead of me did not solute the officer. I held my solute.
>>>
>>>The officer called Halt. We both stopped. The officer ask, very forcefully, why the
>>>airman did not salute him.
>>>The Airman ahead of me slowly raised his left arm and hand and pointed across to his
>>>chest to his Medal of Honor medal.
>>>
>>>The officer came to a very full brach and held it.
>>>
>>>After a minute or so, the airman returned his salute.
>>>
>>>I held my salute until the officer replied.
>>>
>>>I never knew of the history of that officer or that Airman.
>>>
>>>On this Memorial Day, I salute that airman.
>>>
>>>He is a hero to me.
>>
>>Strangely enough, there are no airmen that won a Medal Of Honor in the
>>Korean conflict. There were 4 given to Air Force officers. This sounds
>>like an urban legend to me.
>>
>>http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohkor2.htm
>>
>>Additionally, he would still be required to salute the Lt.
>>
>>http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=7807
>>
>>"Even with its widespread recognition, there are still a number of
>>erroneous beliefs about the medal and its recipients.
>>
>>Theres nothing in the Navy regulations that makes any mention of the
>>Medal of Honor except for its order of precedence on the uniform, said
>>Hudner.
>>
>>The most common myth is that military personnel are required to initiate a
>>salute to a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank. Hudner said
>>another myth is that medal recipients are prevented from returning to
>>combat
>
>
> You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I stand by my word.
> Pull your head out.
> Hoyt W.
>
>
"The Davenports" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <<snippage about an airman, a 2LT and a CMH
>
> >
> > The most common myth is that military personnel are required to initiate
a
> > salute to a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank. Hudner said
> > another myth is that medal recipients are prevented from returning to
> > combat."
> >
> >
>
> Very true...the lower rank is required to salute first...
>
> ...However, I HAVE seen some fairly high ranking officers, upon realizing
> that they were in the presence of a CMH "winner", working very fast
indeed,
> to be able to salute first. The medal, if not the man.
>
> As to the second point, the exact thing that brings a man to do something
> that is "worth" a CMH is much the same thing that makes him go back...if
he
> can, that is. I hope someone can check me on this, but 20-some years ago
> when I was in the USN, I heard from someone I trusted, but can't vouch
for,
> that over 65% of CMH medals were posthumously awarded.
>
> Accurate? No? Help me out here, Gang.
>
> Mike
>
>
According to webpage http://members.aol.com/WarLibrary/vwc13.htm,
"Of the 204 Medals of Honor awarded during the V'nam War, 149, or 73% were
awarded posthumously."
Not certain how credable it is though.
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
news:3%%uc.63469$%[email protected]:
> that's pretty much what I told the second Louie, and his
> response was that I should have made sure my right arm was
> "free" to salute. At that point I knew I was dealing with a
> total moron and said nothing more.
Your first clue shoulda been the rank and the riot act.
>
> dave
>
> JG wrote:
>>
>>
>> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>>
>>> that second Louie wasn't as much of an AH as the idiot that stopped
>>> me outside the PX at Luke AFB one hot afternoon to read me the riot
>>> act for not saluting his highness.
>>>
>>>
>>> I might add that BOTH my arms were full of packages that I had just
>>> purchased...sigh.
>>
>>
>>
>> According to _my_ copy of the B.M.R. (NAVEDTRA 14325) Chapter Nine,
>> Page 9 Saluting a superior is not required:
>>
>> "When carrying articles with both hands, or otherwise occupied making
>> saluting impracticable"
>>
>>
>> --
>> ITSN Gunterman
>> NAVSUPACT MID-SOUTH
>> http://www.shavings.net/creed.htm
>>
>
that second Louie wasn't as much of an AH as the idiot that
stopped me outside the PX at Luke AFB one hot afternoon to
read me the riot act for not saluting his highness.
I might add that BOTH my arms were full of packages that I
had just purchased...sigh.
dave
Hoyt Weathers wrote:
> I decided not to post as OT.
>
> Background: I was an Aviation Cadet at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas in early
> January and February of 1953. I was in the barracks bay of a very special Airman. He
> had been in the Korean Conflict and had earned a Medal of Honor for his actions as a
> gunner aboard a 2-engined boomer in Korea. I was in the same barracks as he was. All
> there knew of his medal and fully respected him for for his bravery in combat.
>
> One day, a very uptight and very starched, 2nd Lt.. was walking towards us on the way
> to chow. We were 2nd classmen by then. I was just behind the airman in question.
>
> As per the orders, I saluted the officer and held my salute.
>
> The airman ahead of me did not solute the officer. I held my solute.
>
> The officer called Halt. We both stopped. The officer ask, very forcefully, why the
> airman did not salute him.
> The Airman ahead of me slowly raised his left arm and hand and pointed across to his
> chest to his Medal of Honor medal.
>
> The officer came to a very full brach and held it.
>
> After a minute or so, the airman returned his salute.
>
> I held my salute until the officer replied.
>
> I never knew of the history of that officer or that Airman.
>
> On this Memorial Day, I salute that airman.
>
> He is a hero to me.
>
> Hoyt W.
>
>
>
Bruce wrote:
> In rec.woodworking
> Hoyt Weathers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I
>> stand by my word. Pull your head out.
>
> Pull my head out? I gave the US GOVERNMENT websites that prove your wrong
> about the medal winner. I can't prove the Lt didn't salute the phantom
> medal winner but if he did, I proved he was wrong too.
I looked at the website and came up with the following USAF winners during the
Korean War:
Maj. George Davis
Maj. Charles Loring
Maj.Louis Sebille
Capt. John Walmsley
None of these brave men lived to return anyone's salute.
There are plenty of enlisted and noncomissioned personnel listed on the site;
but none of them were Air Force. Most of them were Army and Marine Corps....
My other thought: that possibly this was an Army Air Corps member was shot down
(pardon the pun) by finding the USAF was officially formed on July 26, 1947.
There was no Army Air Corps by the time the hostilities in Korea began (June 25,
1950).
Another possibility is that the airman won his CMH in WWII rather than Korea.
Or it's urban legend, as already suggested.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com
raj656 wrote:
> I too had a Marine Officer in Subic Bay walk across a busy street and chew
> me out as I didn't render a salute to him when he was on one side and I was
> on the other. he was a junior office so I cut him some slack and gave him
> what he wanted. Some officers are very insecure.
I vividly remember walking out of the hospital at Andrews Air Force base with my
father (a Major at the time) during the height of the Vietnam War. As we walked
past an airman who didn't salute or even acknowledge our existence, I asked my
dad, "Wasn't he supposed to salute?". "Yes, but he probably had something more
important on his mind and didn't notice me", my father said. "Look where we
are."
As I think back on that, I realize what a thoughtful person my old man was/is.
And no, I'd say he wasn't insecure.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com
Would he have been labeled a moron or a 'miscreant', Dave??? Just
wondering..... ;-) Mark L.
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> that's pretty much what I told the second Louie, and his response was
> that I should have made sure my right arm was "free" to salute. At that
> point I knew I was dealing with a total moron and said nothing more.
>
> dave
>
>
I heard from someone I trusted, but can't vouch for,
> that over 65% of CMH medals were posthumously awarded.
>
> Accurate? No? Help me out here, Gang.
>
> Mike
>
>
Good page with the awardees of the CMH, includes statistics for the
posthumous award
http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/war/1_a_main.html
Master Chief Jack
definitely a "moron". Miscreant is different. BUT: there
are folks here who fit both descriptions! :)
(Glad to see somebody's got their sense of humor intact!)
dave
Mark L. wrote:
> Would he have been labeled a moron or a 'miscreant', Dave??? Just
> wondering..... ;-) Mark L.
>
> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>> that's pretty much what I told the second Louie, and his response was
>> that I should have made sure my right arm was "free" to salute. At
>> that point I knew I was dealing with a total moron and said nothing more.
>>
>> dave
>>
>>
>