Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
Domino for quite a while.
NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
to the MR.
Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:09:11 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
>Domino for quite a while.
>
>NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
>ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
>expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
>joiners.
I'm wondering if someone's going to come out with a base unit that you
can stick a trim router in that would do the same thing.
-Leuf
On 9 Mar 2007 17:25:20 -0800, "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Personally, I'm waiting for the laser model... IF.. I can wait that
>long.. I'm starting to shake a little... abit itchy here and there..
>oooweee... a chill...now a hot-flash...wowsers...
>
>
>DAMN YOU FESTOOL PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
Whatever you do, DO NOT touch the tool! <G>
It'll stick like an aluminum flagpole to your tongue in 15F weather!
Texans and Arizonans can email me directly for an explanation. <G>
New Englanders, Cheeseheads, Canadians, and those who have seen "A
Christmas Story" will understand completely...
On Mar 7, 2:09 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> Domino for quite a while.
>
> NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
> joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
> of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
> to the MR.
>
> Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
I stopped by the Woodsmith Store and used the Domino Saturday
afternoon. Unfortunately the Festool expert on staff was not around
so three other employees assisted me. I wanted to try the other size
cutters besides the 5mm to see how they worked but they could not be
found. So I just cut with the 5mm.
Joined boards like a biscuit cutter, as if edge joining for a panel.
Made 90 degree joints. Machine is nice and the cuts are very quick.
1 second or so per cut with the 5mm cutter. I could not get the edge
joints to line up perfectly 100% flush. Maybe user error. But two of
the employees also tried and the edges were not 100% flush. The 5mm
tenons allow a little bit of up and down slop. They are tight in
their mortises, but there is still a bit of up and down movement
allowed. So I could force the edges to align perfectly, but it was
not automatic. I plan to go back another day and give it another try
to see if I can get the edge joints to be perfectly aligned.
I used the setting that cut the mortises the exact width of the
tenons. I used pencil marks across the boards to line up the
mortises. Easy to cut the mortise exactly where you wanted it. No
problems having the mortises line up exactly on the two boards when
putting them together. So you don't have to use the wide settings to
be sure the mortises line up when edge jointing.
While making the 90 degree butt joints the Domino slipped out of place
a bit and the mortises were not lined up too perfectly. I'll
attribute that to user error and the fact I was not using the shoe
thing they include. And at home I would have mounted the boards in a
vise standing up istead of flat on a table and putting the Domino down
into the board.
Using the built in pins to move the Domino to the next spot is not
perfect. You just don't slide it along and the pin pops in
automatically. You have to look and move it to be sure. Minor issue.
Someone asked about compound miters with the Domino. Sure. If you
have something on the piece to push the fence against, it will work.
It need not be flat surface. A reviewer at Wood magazine was telling
me that he used the Domino to build a Mission rocking chair with it.
One of the rails on the rocker was curved so he pushed the Domino
against two edges and slid it along to cut the mortises. The whole
fence was not against the wood. Just the edges inside an arc. I
think he was cutting mortises for slats, not the official tenons.
The Domino seems to be a handheld slot mortiser. Similar to the ones
that attach to the European jointer/planer combination machines. The
Domino can only cut 28mm deep into a surface. So the longest loose
tenon is only going to be a bit over 1 inch long. Slot mortisers or
the Multi Router are able to make much deeper mortises. This would be
useful on certain size furniture pieces. But for most furniture, a 1
inch long tenon is long enough. By moving the Domino along the
surface, you can cut mortises as long as you want. And by adjusting
the fence height, you can cut mortises as wide/tall as you want.
Without much effort you can cut a mortise of about any width and
length, but its limited to 28mm deep.
On Mar 7, 2:29 pm, "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
>
> > Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> > Domino for quite a while.
>
> I have this disturbing mental image of you sniffing your hands and
> cackling. ;)
>
> R
preciousssssss.........
On Mar 8, 6:17 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I stopped by the Woodsmith Store and used the Domino Saturday
> > afternoon.
>
> Thanks for the details!
>
> Do you think glue would have made a difference in the fit?
For edge gluing boards into a panel, I don't think so. There was
enough up and down slop to move the boards up and down a tiny amount.
Fractions of a millimeter. But still enough to make the boards to be
flush or not flush when running the fingers across them. Maybe I was
shaking a bit and the cutter moved up and down a bit to create a 5.1mm
slot instead of a 5mm slot. Thus the slight movement. But I doubt
it. Or it could have been the edges were not really 90 degrees so
when I pushed the Domino fence against them, there was a slight angle
to each cut. I just used whatever scrap baltic birch plywood they had
on the MFT 1080 table. At home I would of course try to have 90
degree edges to join.
I think this slight(very slight) slop would be one place a dedicated
slot mortiser of the Multi Router would have an advantage. You are
forced to make your own loose tenons so you would plane them down to
an exact piston fit. Whereas the Domino premade loose tenons are not
a piston fit. They can get stuck in the mortises and be hard to pull
out, but its still not as tight as you could get a loose tenon you
plane down yourself. Whether this makes any difference in building
furniture, I don't know. And it may be you really don't want a piston
fit that does not allow any room for glue.
>
> FWIW, I'd probably still use my biscuit joiner for panel alignment.
I have the DeWalt biscuit joiner. But based on one of the videos the
Festool Domino site has, I expected the edge gluing of boards into a
panel to produce an exact, perfectly flush fit. In one of the
"independent" reviewer videos the person is amazed at how perfectly
aligned the edges are. I did not achieve this. At least not in a dry
fit. By pushing the boards up or down, with the slop, I could get the
edges to be perfectly aliigned. I'm not sure how this would work when
clamping the boards though. Cauls and wax paper required? I was
expecting the Domino to eliminate the need/luxury/reason for a biscuit
joiner.
I'll head back to the store sometime in the next month or two and give
the Domino another test.
On Mar 7, 3:09 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> Domino for quite a while.
>
> NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
> joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
> of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
> to the MR.
>
> Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
I think I should have one of them there tool things... but I'm saving
for a ShopBot.
On Mar 8, 7:12 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
> > One thing that I have noticed, unless I am mistaken, is that the Domino
> > cannot make compound mortises.
>
> That didn't seem like a problem. Right off the top of my head it seems
> that you could flip the stock, just like a biscuit joiner.
>
> > I am not sure that you can cut mortises on
>
> > narrow stock that has been cut off at an angle.
>
> This might need a quickie jig, again like a biscuit joiner, and it might
> depend on how narrow the stock is.
Mortise first, then clip the end of the rung at an angle.
On Mar 8, 8:57 am, "Charley" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think I'll stay with my FMT.
>
> It may take a bit longer to set it up, but it always makes perfect mortice
> and tenons, and they're in the right place too.
$800 for the Leigh FMT. Plus you have to have a router to use with
it. Plus an assortment of bits is $100-200? Domino is $660 plus $30,
$29, $28 for the extra 10mm, 8mm, 6mm cutters. Plus $65 for the loose
tenons in various quantities of the sizes. Its more money to start
from scratch with the FMT.
Domino can put the mortises in the right place too. Just takes
seconds. Pick up the tool, put it where you want it and a couple
seconds later you are putting loose tenons and glue into the joints.
I'll make the not very bold prediction that the Leigh FMT will
disappear from the catalogs and marketplace in a year or two because
its small extra versatility over the Domino comes at such a high setup
cost in time that people will not buy the FMT.
The Domino cuts acceptable, usable joints in seconds. Not minutes.
That time advantage is a real measurable advantage. If you can end up
with an acceptable joint in seconds, why take minutes or hours to
achieve the same or similar result? Lots of woodworkers get pleasure
from actually completeing a project and using it. The Domino helps
with this.
>
> --
> Charley
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > On Mar 7, 2:09 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> > > Domino for quite a while.
>
> > > NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> > > ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> > > expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
> > > joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
> > > of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
> > > to the MR.
>
> > > Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
>
> > I stopped by the Woodsmith Store and used the Domino Saturday
> > afternoon. Unfortunately the Festool expert on staff was not around
> > so three other employees assisted me. I wanted to try the other size
> > cutters besides the 5mm to see how they worked but they could not be
> > found. So I just cut with the 5mm.
>
> > Joined boards like a biscuit cutter, as if edge joining for a panel.
> > Made 90 degree joints. Machine is nice and the cuts are very quick.
> > 1 second or so per cut with the 5mm cutter. I could not get the edge
> > joints to line up perfectly 100% flush. Maybe user error. But two of
> > the employees also tried and the edges were not 100% flush. The 5mm
> > tenons allow a little bit of up and down slop. They are tight in
> > their mortises, but there is still a bit of up and down movement
> > allowed. So I could force the edges to align perfectly, but it was
> > not automatic. I plan to go back another day and give it another try
> > to see if I can get the edge joints to be perfectly aligned.
>
> > I used the setting that cut the mortises the exact width of the
> > tenons. I used pencil marks across the boards to line up the
> > mortises. Easy to cut the mortise exactly where you wanted it. No
> > problems having the mortises line up exactly on the two boards when
> > putting them together. So you don't have to use the wide settings to
> > be sure the mortises line up when edge jointing.
>
> > While making the 90 degree butt joints the Domino slipped out of place
> > a bit and the mortises were not lined up too perfectly. I'll
> > attribute that to user error and the fact I was not using the shoe
> > thing they include. And at home I would have mounted the boards in a
> > vise standing up istead of flat on a table and putting the Domino down
> > into the board.
>
> > Using the built in pins to move the Domino to the next spot is not
> > perfect. You just don't slide it along and the pin pops in
> > automatically. You have to look and move it to be sure. Minor issue.
>
> > Someone asked about compound miters with the Domino. Sure. If you
> > have something on the piece to push the fence against, it will work.
> > It need not be flat surface. A reviewer at Wood magazine was telling
> > me that he used the Domino to build a Mission rocking chair with it.
> > One of the rails on the rocker was curved so he pushed the Domino
> > against two edges and slid it along to cut the mortises. The whole
> > fence was not against the wood. Just the edges inside an arc. I
> > think he was cutting mortises for slats, not the official tenons.
>
> > The Domino seems to be a handheld slot mortiser. Similar to the ones
> > that attach to the European jointer/planer combination machines. The
> > Domino can only cut 28mm deep into a surface. So the longest loose
> > tenon is only going to be a bit over 1 inch long. Slot mortisers or
> > the Multi Router are able to make much deeper mortises. This would be
> > useful on certain size furniture pieces. But for most furniture, a 1
> > inch long tenon is long enough. By moving the Domino along the
> > surface, you can cut mortises as long as you want. And by adjusting
> > the fence height, you can cut mortises as wide/tall as you want.
> > Without much effort you can cut a mortise of about any width and
> > length, but its limited to 28mm deep.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On Mar 7, 3:09 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> Domino for quite a while.
>
> NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
> joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
> of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
> to the MR.
>
> Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
I saw a demo. I'm not insulting them, but I actually have no desire to
get one.
Seems like it would have a lot of the same problems a biscuit cutter
would. I tried making face frames with the little biscuits, and it was
a lot more frustrating than using a Kreg. And I don't see how it would
be faster than a Kreg, because you're going to have to be real careful
to line up your pencil marks and hold the Domino just right (or build
a jig).. just like a biscuit cutter.
I can see the advantage in an application where you're going to make a
loose tennon anyway. But in the types of projects I do, I see the
Domino being just as good as a biscuit cutter sometimes and inferior
to pocket screws.
Tell me what I'm saying that is wrong.. I just see this thing being a
PITA for face frames and other Kreg applications.
On Mar 8, 5:17 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > I'll make the not very bold prediction that the Leigh FMT will
> > disappear from the catalogs and marketplace in a year or two because
> > its small extra versatility over the Domino comes at such a high setup
> > cost in time that people will not buy the FMT.
>
> > The Domino cuts acceptable, usable joints in seconds. Not minutes.
> > That time advantage is a real measurable advantage. If you can end up
> > with an acceptable joint in seconds, why take minutes or hours to
> > achieve the same or similar result? Lots of woodworkers get pleasure
> > from actually completeing a project and using it. The Domino helps
> > with this.
>
> Still the FMT does make a large variety of mortises and tennons and the
> Domino makes 4 sized mortises.
No. The Domino can make ANY size mortise for width and length. Its
only limitation is depth. 28mm deep is the maximum. To cut a dado
clear across a board just slide the Domino along. To cut a mortise
from the top to the bottom of a board, just move the fence up or
down. I guess there could be a limitation for height of the mortise
since the fence only has about 2-3" of travel. You could easily get
around this fence limitation by just clamping a board across the piece
and resting the bottom of the Domino on the clamped board. 28mm
mortise depth is the only limitation.
And the 28mm depth is probably not correct. Once you cut the mortise
28mm deep, you can easily take a router with a bearing guided top
bearing and plunge cut the mortise much deeper. I am sure CMT and
Jesada and all the other router bit makers sell 10mm diameter top
bearing guided pattern bits. This does take a minute to put the bit
in the router and set the plunge depth to say 2.5" and then a second
or two to put the bit into the hole and plunge cut it. But if you are
only making extra deep mortises once in awhile, its still very quick.
And the Domino already cut the original mortise for the pattern in
seconds.
FMT does make integral tenons in addition to the mortises. But if you
are willing to use loose tenons, then having integral tenons is not an
advantage. And once the loose tenon is glued into the mortise, its an
integral tenon. Using loose tenons does make piece sizing much
easier. No need to figure tenon length and add that to the pieces you
cut. Just cut the finished length of the piece and you are done.
Join with loose tenons. In another post I think someone mentioned
using the Multi Router almost exclusively to cut mortises, not to cut
integral tenons. I would guess most people who use the Multi Router
or FMT frequently fall into the pattern of using loose tenons for
almost everything due to its simpler, easier method.
> The Domino will not replace the FMT, I think each has its place.
The FMT can do more. So can the Multi Router. So can the European
slot mortisers mounted onto jointer/planer combination machines, or
the stand alone versions of slot mortisers. All cost more. Multi
Router and stand alone slot mortiser many, many times more. All
require far more setup time. All can cut much deeper mortises. The
FMT and Multi Router can also cut integral tenons.
If 95+% of your mortise and tenon joinery can be handled by 2" loose
tenons (1" glued into each piece) and these mortises can be cut in
seconds with no more setup time required than drawing a pencil mark
and moving the Domiino fence up or down, I don't see much of a future
for the FMT, Multi Router, or slot morttisers.
If you own neither the Domino or FMT or Multi Router or slot mortiser
for your jointer/planer machine and want a machine to cut your
mortises, which will you pick? $1000 roughly for the FMT or Domino or
slot mortiser for jointer/planer, or $2500 for Multi Router. The
others can all do more with considerably more setup time required. 95+
% can be done with the Domino in seconds. Do you buy a tool that does
everything with considerable setup time, or buy a tool that does 95+%
with no setup time? And if you have the Domino for 95+%, would you
spend an extra $1000 for the FMT to get that other 5%?
A few months ago I decided I would get joint cutting machines.
Dovetail was easy. Either the Leigh D24R or the new Omnijig coming
out in a few months. Have not bought one yet, but its between these
two for dovetails. Also decided I needed a mortise and tenon
machine. I have a tablesaw and dado blade so cutting tenons on the
ends of pieces is easily done. Mortises are a bit harder. And loose
tenons eliminates the need to even use the table saw and dado blade to
cut integral tenons. machines considered were the FMT and the slot
mortiser for jointer/planer combination machines. I was/am
considering one of these from Hammer, Felder, MiniMax. Cost of FMT is
$800+router+bits. Cost of slot mortiser for Hammer j/p combo is
$800+bits. Of these two my choice was the slot mortiser. Then the
Domino came along. My choice now is the Domino. It has advantages
because you can take it to the work and work on round and curved
pieces without jigs and setup. Its also so much faster. And if I do
not get the j/p combo but go with separate jointer and planer, it
still works while the slot mortiser for the j/p combo needs the j/p
combo first. I have not spent the money yet on the dovetail or
mortise fixture so I'm still thinking, wishing, dreaming, talking, etc.
On Mar 9, 11:54 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Mar 8, 5:17 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > No. The Domino can make ANY size mortise for width and length. Its
> > only limitation is depth. 28mm deep is the maximum.
>
> The Domino cannot make a 1/8" thick mortice can it? That is what I was
> refering to.
5mm is the narrowest. Roughly 5mm by 15mm or so. 5/25.4 = .19685" =
strong 3/16" So no it can't make 1/8". Not sure what you would use
such a tiny mortise for.
On Mar 9, 12:25 pm, "splinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been using the beadlock system for mortice/loose tenons in my
> opinion it works great. and the money i saved can buy a nice 14"
> bandsaw. am i missing something or do you guys just have money coming
> out of the wazoo?
How quickly can you make mirtises in the two pieces to be joined with
the Beadlock system? Why did you need to buy a Beadlock system to
drill mortises? Why not just use a drill press and fence? Can you
make a mortise with the Beadlock in the center of a board? How about
mortises besides just 3/8" and 1/2"? How much setup time is required?
It looks like the Beadlock would work pretty well. But its not nearly
as quick as the Domino. The quickness, lack of setup time is what
sets the Domino apart from about anything else. All of these tools,
jigs, fixtures are supposed to aid in the cutting of joints by making
it quicker or more precise than by hand or another way. Beadlock
takes the place of a bit and brace used to drill out the mortise and a
chisel to clean it up so its rectangular. Domino does the same thing,
it substitutes for other methods. Leigh dovetal jig D24R takes the
place of handcutting dovetails with a saw and chisel.
On Mar 9, 10:14 am, "bf" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 3:09 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> > Domino for quite a while.
>
> > NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> > ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> > expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
> > joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
> > of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
> > to the MR.
>
> > Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
>
> I saw a demo. I'm not insulting them, but I actually have no desire to
> get one.
> Seems like it would have a lot of the same problems a biscuit cutter
> would. I tried making face frames with the little biscuits, and it was
> a lot more frustrating than using a Kreg.
Comparing the little biscuits the Porter Cable biscuit joiner cuts to
the Domino tenons is not correct.
And I don't see how it would
> be faster than a Kreg, because you're going to have to be real careful
> to line up your pencil marks
Its very, very easy to line up the pencil marks and have the mortises
exactly where you want them. And the Domino has built in pins to use
for alignment purposes so no pencil marks necessary. The fence is
adjustable on the Domino so you can use it to position the cutter.
You can also cut slightly oversize mortises to make alignment very
easy. Once a loose tenon is glued in, the fact its hole is slightly
too big isn't going to compromise the strength enough to make a
difference.
and hold the Domino just right (or build
> a jig).. just like a biscuit cutter.
>
> I can see the advantage in an application where you're going to make a
> loose tennon anyway.
Many pieces of furniture such as tables, desks, chairs, chests use
mortise and tenon to assemble the parts.
But in the types of projects I do, I see the
> Domino being just as good as a biscuit cutter sometimes and inferior
> to pocket screws.
Pocket screws and biscuits on a chair? Pocket screws or biscuits to
attach the drawer dust covers into a bedroom chest of drawers?
>
> Tell me what I'm saying that is wrong.. I just see this thing being a
> PITA for face frames and other Kreg applications.
Face frames would be where it excels. I do not have a Kreg because I
just don't like the idea of exposed screws on my furniture pieces.
Even if they are on the back side. Carpentry and construction, I use
screws all the time. Nice furniture? Not for me. I have a biscuit
joiner but just have never liked it for nice furniture joints. Making
panels, yes for alignment and gluing.
On Mar 9, 1:25 pm, "splinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been using the beadlock system for mortice/loose tenons in my
> opinion it works great. and the money i saved can buy a nice 14"
> bandsaw. am i missing something or do you guys just have money coming
> out of the wazoo?
You don't understand... it is a piece of art. An instrument! A
creative device!!!! It wiggles and it whirls, it has a cord, a fence,
and, and, and, makes cool sounds..andandnand LOTS of sawdust...and
nobody else has one yet... and it is tres cool, yo! It is a MUST
have!!
"THOUSAND BUCKS, son.."..."take it or leave it."
Personally, I'm waiting for the laser model... IF.. I can wait that
long.. I'm starting to shake a little... abit itchy here and there..
oooweee... a chill...now a hot-flash...wowsers...
DAMN YOU FESTOOL PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
On Mar 9, 8:07 pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Many pieces of furniture such as tables, desks, chairs, chests use
> mortise and tenon to assemble the parts.
>
> Pocket screws and biscuits on a chair? Pocket screws or biscuits to
> attach the drawer dust covers into a bedroom chest of drawers?
No, I wouldn't use pocket screws on a chair. :) I might use screws
inside a chest of drawers when they won't be seen. It doesn't bother
me to have pocket holes on the back of a face frame, but if it bothers
you, I can understand. Thanks for all the additional info on the
domino (and for the other responders). Now I have a clearer idea of
the value of it. I wasn't trying to bash it or anything, just get a
bigger understanding of why people are excited about it.
>
> Not for me. I have a biscuit
> joiner but just have never liked it for nice furniture joints.
I just use biscuits for gluing up panels, I don't like it for joints
either.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'll make the not very bold prediction that the Leigh FMT will
> disappear from the catalogs and marketplace in a year or two because
> its small extra versatility over the Domino comes at such a high setup
> cost in time that people will not buy the FMT.
>
> The Domino cuts acceptable, usable joints in seconds. Not minutes.
> That time advantage is a real measurable advantage. If you can end up
> with an acceptable joint in seconds, why take minutes or hours to
> achieve the same or similar result? Lots of woodworkers get pleasure
> from actually completeing a project and using it. The Domino helps
> with this.
>
Still the FMT does make a large variety of mortises and tennons and the
Domino makes 4 sized mortises.
The Domino will not replace the FMT, I think each has its place.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 9, 11:54 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > On Mar 8, 5:17 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> > No. The Domino can make ANY size mortise for width and length. Its
>> > only limitation is depth. 28mm deep is the maximum.
>>
>> The Domino cannot make a 1/8" thick mortice can it? That is what I was
>> refering to.
>
> 5mm is the narrowest. Roughly 5mm by 15mm or so. 5/25.4 = .19685" =
> strong 3/16" So no it can't make 1/8". Not sure what you would use
> such a tiny mortise for.
>
As my comment indicated earlier, the FMT is capable of making tiny/miniature
mortise and tennons for those that like to build doll house furniture. It
is very versatile in this respect.
I think I'll stay with my FMT.
It may take a bit longer to set it up, but it always makes perfect mortice
and tenons, and they're in the right place too.
--
Charley
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 7, 2:09 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> > Domino for quite a while.
> >
> > NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> > ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> > expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
> > joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
> > of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
> > to the MR.
> >
> > Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
>
> I stopped by the Woodsmith Store and used the Domino Saturday
> afternoon. Unfortunately the Festool expert on staff was not around
> so three other employees assisted me. I wanted to try the other size
> cutters besides the 5mm to see how they worked but they could not be
> found. So I just cut with the 5mm.
>
> Joined boards like a biscuit cutter, as if edge joining for a panel.
> Made 90 degree joints. Machine is nice and the cuts are very quick.
> 1 second or so per cut with the 5mm cutter. I could not get the edge
> joints to line up perfectly 100% flush. Maybe user error. But two of
> the employees also tried and the edges were not 100% flush. The 5mm
> tenons allow a little bit of up and down slop. They are tight in
> their mortises, but there is still a bit of up and down movement
> allowed. So I could force the edges to align perfectly, but it was
> not automatic. I plan to go back another day and give it another try
> to see if I can get the edge joints to be perfectly aligned.
>
> I used the setting that cut the mortises the exact width of the
> tenons. I used pencil marks across the boards to line up the
> mortises. Easy to cut the mortise exactly where you wanted it. No
> problems having the mortises line up exactly on the two boards when
> putting them together. So you don't have to use the wide settings to
> be sure the mortises line up when edge jointing.
>
> While making the 90 degree butt joints the Domino slipped out of place
> a bit and the mortises were not lined up too perfectly. I'll
> attribute that to user error and the fact I was not using the shoe
> thing they include. And at home I would have mounted the boards in a
> vise standing up istead of flat on a table and putting the Domino down
> into the board.
>
> Using the built in pins to move the Domino to the next spot is not
> perfect. You just don't slide it along and the pin pops in
> automatically. You have to look and move it to be sure. Minor issue.
>
> Someone asked about compound miters with the Domino. Sure. If you
> have something on the piece to push the fence against, it will work.
> It need not be flat surface. A reviewer at Wood magazine was telling
> me that he used the Domino to build a Mission rocking chair with it.
> One of the rails on the rocker was curved so he pushed the Domino
> against two edges and slid it along to cut the mortises. The whole
> fence was not against the wood. Just the edges inside an arc. I
> think he was cutting mortises for slats, not the official tenons.
>
> The Domino seems to be a handheld slot mortiser. Similar to the ones
> that attach to the European jointer/planer combination machines. The
> Domino can only cut 28mm deep into a surface. So the longest loose
> tenon is only going to be a bit over 1 inch long. Slot mortisers or
> the Multi Router are able to make much deeper mortises. This would be
> useful on certain size furniture pieces. But for most furniture, a 1
> inch long tenon is long enough. By moving the Domino along the
> surface, you can cut mortises as long as you want. And by adjusting
> the fence height, you can cut mortises as wide/tall as you want.
> Without much effort you can cut a mortise of about any width and
> length, but its limited to 28mm deep.
>
No it doesn't. When I want mortices in the face of a board I use the D4R
dovetail jig with the F1 attachment.
--
Charley
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Charley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I think I'll stay with my FMT.
> >
> > It may take a bit longer to set it up, but it always makes perfect
mortice
> > and tenons, and they're in the right place too.
>
> Does the FMT make mortises in the face of a board?
>
>
Leon wrote:
> One thing that I have noticed, unless I am mistaken, is that the Domino
> cannot make compound mortises.
That didn't seem like a problem. Right off the top of my head it seems
that you could flip the stock, just like a biscuit joiner.
> I am not sure that you can cut mortises on
> narrow stock that has been cut off at an angle.
This might need a quickie jig, again like a biscuit joiner, and it might
depend on how narrow the stock is.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 7, 3:09 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I think I should have one of them there tool things... but I'm saving
> for a ShopBot.
>
I agree, get the Domino and send it to me. ;~)
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool Domino
> for quite a while.
>
> NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit joiners.
> While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many of them get
> used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare to the MR.
>
>
> Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
I have been looking at the Domino also, on-line, so you suck.
One thing that I have noticed, unless I am mistaken, is that the Domino
cannot make compound mortises. I am not sure that you can cut mortises on
narrow stock that has been cut off at an angle.
Did you find anything contrary to those thoughts???
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I think this slight(very slight) slop would be one place a dedicated
> slot mortiser of the Multi Router would have an advantage. You are
> forced to make your own loose tenons so you would plane them down to
> an exact piston fit.
True!
I guess one could make tenons for the Domino, as well. I didn't mean to
directly compare the Domino and MR, only to suggest there's a LOT of
stuff the Domino can do for 1/3 of the outlay.
>
> I'll head back to the store sometime in the next month or two and give
> the Domino another test.
>
I plan on doing the same. At the time, I was in the store for something
else, so I didn't have time to take advantage of the demo setup Coastal
has in place.
I'm not even in the market for a mortising system, the Domino simply
caught my eye. <G>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 9, 12:25 pm, "splinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I have been using the beadlock system for mortice/loose tenons in my
>> opinion it works great. and the money i saved can buy a nice 14"
>> bandsaw. am i missing something or do you guys just have money coming
>> out of the wazoo?
>
> How quickly can you make mirtises in the two pieces to be joined with
> the Beadlock system?
Pretty quickly, in the time it takes to drill 8 holes gor both pieces, 4
holes each.
Why did you need to buy a Beadlock system to drill mortises?
It is faster and more accurate than a dedicated mortiser.
Why not just use a drill press and fence?
It is portable like a dowling jig. Esentially it is a doweling jig. It can
be placed most any where, where as a drill press has its limitations.
Can you
> make a mortise with the Beadlock in the center of a board?
Yes
How about
> mortises besides just 3/8" and 1/2"?
IIRC no, so that would be 2 less than the Domino offers.
How much setup time is required?
Little to none. How much set up time does a doweling jig take.
> It looks like the Beadlock would work pretty well. But its not nearly
> as quick as the Domino.
Correct, not as quick as a Domino however a Domino probably only saves you
10 minutes for 20 mortises.
Ever make anything besides face frames? Ever do anything where the three
inch long pocket screw gash wouldn't look good?
"bf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tell me what I'm saying that is wrong.. I just see this thing being a
> PITA for face frames and other Kreg applications.
>
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" wrote in message
>
>> One thing that I have noticed, unless I am mistaken, is that the Domino
>> cannot make compound mortises.
>
> IIRC, and if what I've read is correct, they say that it can. But I've not
> any first hand experience with it.
Yeah that is what I have heard and what some of the finished projects have
suggested however none of the demo videos show this.
There is an attachment for holding narrow pieces and if it can be adjusted
to an angle I believe compound mortises would be possible. So far that
attachment appears to only hold narrow pieces perpendicular to the tool
face.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> I'll make the not very bold prediction that the Leigh FMT will
> disappear from the catalogs and marketplace in a year or two because
> its small extra versatility over the Domino comes at such a high setup
> cost in time that people will not buy the FMT.
... and Leigh may not be the only ones looking over their shoulder at this
thing.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 8, 7:12 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>
> Mortise first, then clip the end of the rung at an angle.
>
Good thought however the mating piece probably will not fit as desired.
B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote in news:HZEHh.7787$re4.6129
@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net:
> Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> Domino for quite a while.
>
> NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
> joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
> of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
> to the MR.
>
>
> Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
>
First impression, just on the basis of the math. The Multirouter is about
4x the price of the admittedly not cheap Domino. And not portable, either
out of the shop, or to the work.
Probably a place for both, in the very-well-stocked woodshop. Not mine,
this year, though.
Patriarch
"bf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I saw a demo. I'm not insulting them, but I actually have no desire to
> get one.
> Seems like it would have a lot of the same problems a biscuit cutter
> would. I tried making face frames with the little biscuits, and it was
> a lot more frustrating than using a Kreg.
And I don't see how it would
> be faster than a Kreg, because you're going to have to be real careful
> to line up your pencil marks and hold the Domino just right (or build
> a jig).. just like a biscuit cutter.
Well to be fair, you have to use the same technique to align the pieces when
attaching the pocket screws. You still need to align the pieces.
The Pocket screws would have a great advantage over the Domino when it comes
to clamping and glue up. When the screws go in the piece is finished.
> I can see the advantage in an application where you're going to make a
> loose tennon anyway. But in the types of projects I do, I see the
> Domino being just as good as a biscuit cutter sometimes and inferior
> to pocket screws.
>
> Tell me what I'm saying that is wrong.. I just see this thing being a
> PITA for face frames and other Kreg applications.
Personally I se it as equal to anything else and I do make a lot of face
frames with pocket hole screws. The advantage with the screws is the saved
time during and glue up and not having to leave the pieces in clamps. The
down side to screws is that they do not provide as strong of a joint as
loose tennons and they leave an exposed hole that sometimes has to be delt
with.
"Charley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No it doesn't. When I want mortices in the face of a board I use the D4R
> dovetail jig with the F1 attachment.
You use the box joint jig to make matrices in the face of a board? How do
you do that? Are you sure that is not a M1 jig?
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I stopped by the Woodsmith Store and used the Domino Saturday
> afternoon.
Thanks for the details!
Do you think glue would have made a difference in the fit?
FWIW, I'd probably still use my biscuit joiner for panel alignment.
"B A R R Y" wrote in message
> Yesterday, while visiting Coastal Tool, I got to paw over a Festool
> Domino for quite a while.
No criminal charges, so you're home free?
> NICE tool! It has a very high quality feel, smooth action, nice
> ergonomics. The tenons seem to be of high quality, too. The Domino is
> expensive, but I can really see 'em getting as popular as biscuit
> joiners. While I know the Multi-Router can do more, I wonder how many
> of them get used mostly for mortising, and how the Domino might compare
> to the MR.
I use the MR almost exclusively for mortising. My guess, talking with other
MR owners, is that "loose tenon joinery" is high on the list of "most used
for" applications on the MR.
> Hmmmmmm... Time to research. <G>
Although I have not "pawed" it yet, after reading the literature and seeing
what it can do, If I did not have a MR, I would not hesitate to give
_serious_ consideration to the Domino for what I do with the MR.
That said, I would NOT trade my MR for one, so forget it. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
MR.
>
> That said, I would NOT trade my MR for one, so forget it. :)
What if you lost it in a card game? Canasta? ;~)
"Charley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I think I'll stay with my FMT.
>
> It may take a bit longer to set it up, but it always makes perfect mortice
> and tenons, and they're in the right place too.
Does the FMT make mortises in the face of a board?
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 8, 5:17 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> No. The Domino can make ANY size mortise for width and length. Its
> only limitation is depth. 28mm deep is the maximum.
The Domino cannot make a 1/8" thick mortice can it? That is what I was
refering to.