I recently bought a Jet drill press. Its seems to work well and I'm happy
with it. I added power and wiring to my emerging shop and I have an
abundance of 220v. outlets. I convert every stationary power tool to
220volt. Last night I did the drill press. Before powering up, I
remembered about the builtin worklight, which uses a perfectly ordinary 60
watt light bulb. Looking through Jet's manual and instructions, there is no
mention anywhere about changes in the worklight when converting to 220 volt.
However, the internal schematic clearly shows the worklight is connected
across the incoming power lines. So if these become 220 volt, then the
light will be 220 volt, too.
Before taking a chance, I called Jet technical support and asked about it.
The tech guy was less than stunning - atypical of my support experience for
my table saw. After my explanation of what the worklight was, he firmly
stated that the bulb would not have to be changed. I tried to argue and
explain the wiring. What I really wanted was Jet's direction on what kind
of replacement bulb I should use and where to get it. He told me the bulb
was only on one leg of the 220 and it would not be a problem.
<sigh> Ok. So I powered up the drill and tested the motor. It ran just
fine with no sign of distress running on 220 volt. I got that part right.
Then I screwed in a light bulb. It went POW and tripped the circuit
breaker, slightly melting the center contact on the bulb. I restored power
and checked the voltage across the light bulb socket -- 240.1 volts.
After searching for three hours and consulting with my dealer, he helped me
find bulbs at Grainger and let me purchase under his dealership name.
Great. I picked up two 60 watt 230 volt bulbs which cost an arm and a leg,
by the way. I was really unhappy when I got home and discovered these bulbs
were "fatter" than their 110 volt counterpart. They would not fit in the
Jet drll press. Finally, I got out the wiring diagram and studied it. I
changed one connection to put 110 volt on the light, while leaving 220 volt
on the motor. After testing everything with a meter, I powered up. The motor
still ran just fine and a 110 volt standard bulb worked fine.
I had logged another call with jet support, leaving a message on their
answering machine. Another tech rep called me and said the first rep was
completely wrong when he told me I would not need to replace the bulb and he
apologized. He told me I needed an appliance bulb like those used in
electric ranges. Well, some more bad advice. I could not find a 220 volt
appliance bulb anywhere.
So I guess I'll go with my unauthorized rewiring job and get along with
standard bulbs. They are so much cheaper, anyway.
Bob
An alternative is to install a rectifier (diode) in series with one of the
power leads. This will reduce the effective power to the bulb by 1/2. You
will need a diode with minimum current rating of 2 amps or so to be "safe"
rated at 400 volts or better. An alternative is to install a dimmer (most are
rated at 600 volts) and only turn it up half way 8^)
-Bruce
Indeed you did. Thanks Abe. I have an old bench grinder that I might try
your trick on. I always appreciate being exposed to new ideas and
experiences. There's lots of theory out there, but "Been there and it
worked for a long time" is strong testimony.
Bob
"Abe Litman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Good luck with whatever you decide. I just wanted to expose one more
> solution.
Lew Hodgett said:
>Forget trying to operate a 60W incandescent lamp at 240V, especially in this
>application.
>
>Why? Simply because the lamp filament is so fine it won't tolerate the
>vibration found on a typical drill press.
I find it interesting that Delta recommends the use of a track light
reflector bulb in their bench grinders. Not thinking, I was suckered
into this one time. The bulb lasted about 2 days before the filament
shook loose.
>Pull a neutral along with the two hots so that you can rewire the lamp
>holder to operate at 120V.
Come on, guys - you can do better than this!
You *could* put two bulbs in series. Just don't ask ME which one is
blown when one of them fails. And they must be identical.
But the correct answer is:
Put a simple 1 amp 600PIV rectifier (diode) in series with the bulb
lead. It will drop the negative going cycle resulting in half the
voltage - easy.
Greg G.
Do you know anybody going to Europe? All their wiring is 220v and it looks
like the bulb bases are the same size(Edison) as US. Have them bring you
back a cheap present.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bob Davis" writes:
>
> > I recently bought a Jet drill press. Its seems to work well and I'm
happy
> > with it. I added power and wiring to my emerging shop and I have an
> > abundance of 220v. outlets. I convert every stationary power tool to
> > 220volt. Last night I did the drill press. Before powering up, I
> > remembered about the builtin worklight, which uses a perfectly ordinary
60
> > watt light bulb. Looking through Jet's manual and instructions, there is
> no
> > mention anywhere about changes in the worklight when converting to 220
> volt.
> <snip a tale of woe>
>
> Forget trying to operate a 60W incandescent lamp at 240V, especially in
this
> application.
>
> Why? Simply because the lamp filament is so fine it won't tolerate the
> vibration found on a typical drill press.
>
> Also, the cost, as you have found out, is prohibitive for small
quantities.
>
> Pull a neutral along with the two hots so that you can rewire the lamp
> holder to operate at 120V.
>
> Don't want to do that, then rewire the lamp holder with it's own 120V cord
> and plug.
>
> Can tell you a story about American Ship Building, owned by George
> Steinbrenner, yes the New York Yankees owner, then located in Lorain,
Ohio,
> and how they used 240V incandescent lamps, more than $25,000/year of a
> single wattage, which today would be close to $40K.
>
> Great labor relations story, but I digress.
>
> HTH
>
>
> --
> Lew
>
> S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
Southland)
> Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
>
>
"Bob Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I recently bought a Jet drill press. Its seems to work well and I'm happy
> with it. I added power and wiring to my emerging shop and I have an
> abundance of 220v. outlets. I convert every stationary power tool to
> 220volt. Last night I did the drill press. Before powering up, I
> remembered about the builtin worklight, which uses a perfectly ordinary 60
> watt light bulb. Looking through Jet's manual and instructions, there is no
> mention anywhere about changes in the worklight when converting to 220 volt.
> However, the internal schematic clearly shows the worklight is connected
> across the incoming power lines. So if these become 220 volt, then the
> light will be 220 volt, too.
>
> Before taking a chance, I called Jet technical support and asked about it.
> The tech guy was less than stunning - atypical of my support experience for
> my table saw. After my explanation of what the worklight was, he firmly
> stated that the bulb would not have to be changed. I tried to argue and
> explain the wiring. What I really wanted was Jet's direction on what kind
> of replacement bulb I should use and where to get it. He told me the bulb
> was only on one leg of the 220 and it would not be a problem.
>
> <sigh> Ok. So I powered up the drill and tested the motor. It ran just
> fine with no sign of distress running on 220 volt. I got that part right.
> Then I screwed in a light bulb. It went POW and tripped the circuit
> breaker, slightly melting the center contact on the bulb. I restored power
> and checked the voltage across the light bulb socket -- 240.1 volts.
>
> After searching for three hours and consulting with my dealer, he helped me
> find bulbs at Grainger and let me purchase under his dealership name.
> Great. I picked up two 60 watt 230 volt bulbs which cost an arm and a leg,
> by the way. I was really unhappy when I got home and discovered these bulbs
> were "fatter" than their 110 volt counterpart. They would not fit in the
> Jet drll press. Finally, I got out the wiring diagram and studied it. I
> changed one connection to put 110 volt on the light, while leaving 220 volt
> on the motor. After testing everything with a meter, I powered up. The motor
> still ran just fine and a 110 volt standard bulb worked fine.
>
> I had logged another call with jet support, leaving a message on their
> answering machine. Another tech rep called me and said the first rep was
> completely wrong when he told me I would not need to replace the bulb and he
> apologized. He told me I needed an appliance bulb like those used in
> electric ranges. Well, some more bad advice. I could not find a 220 volt
> appliance bulb anywhere.
>
> So I guess I'll go with my unauthorized rewiring job and get along with
> standard bulbs. They are so much cheaper, anyway.
>
> Bob
You've gotten so many good answers, but what I haven't seen is the
question of "why". How big of a drill press do you have that 220 is
needed or even beneficial? I always thought that until the motor gets
pretty big (2 hp or larger?) that 220 doesn't provide any benefits
over 110. Sticking on external work lights, rigging the wiring on a
major tool, and/or installing various combinations of lights and other
electric gizmos to get around a problem caused by the switch-over
wouldn't be my choice unless I received some significant benefit from
running my DP on 220. Have you considered switching it back?
Dave Hall
Roy Smith said:
>How does that save energy? The bulb reaches thermal equilibrium in a
>small fraction of a second. Much too fast for the high inrush current
>to be a significant factor in overall energy use. I could certainly see
>how it might increase bulb life, by reducing thermal shock to the
>filament, but save energy? I don't see how.
Hell, I didn't design them, sell them, or recommend them.
They were marketed to extend the bulbs life, and the small residual
resistance made them draw slightly less current. And yea, it made the
light yellow.
>If you want to save energy, use a smaller bulb. Anything along the
>lines of dimmers/diodes/thermistors just makes the bulb operate at a
>voltage/current/temperature point different from it's design point, and
>thus less efficient. Sure, you can make a 100W bulb draw 75W, but it'll
>put out less light than a 75W bulb running at full power.
I agree, but morons will buy anything if your dress it up in a
colorful blister pack and promise the stars.
Greg G.
In article <[email protected]>, "Bob Davis" <[email protected]> writes:
> I recently bought a Jet drill press. Its seems to work well and I'm happy
> with it. I added power and wiring to my emerging shop and I have an
> abundance of 220v. outlets. I convert every stationary power tool to
> 220volt. Last night I did the drill press. Before powering up, I
> remembered about the builtin worklight, which uses a perfectly ordinary 60
> watt light bulb. Looking through Jet's manual and instructions, there is no
> mention anywhere about changes in the worklight when converting to 220 volt.
> However, the internal schematic clearly shows the worklight is connected
> across the incoming power lines. So if these become 220 volt, then the
> light will be 220 volt, too.
You could put a second bulb and run them in series, using standard 120v
bulbs...
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
I know the UK / Ireland use bayonet based, but I believe France, Germany,
Italy etc use screw in bulbs. It's been a long time, but I think they're
closer to 220V as well (UK is 240V).
You should be able to get 208 or 220 volt bulbs from a local electrical
supplier - a lot of commercal wiring uses higher voltage circuits.
Ian
"Bob Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When I was in Europe (lived in Ireland for 9 months), all the light bulbs
> were bayonet based. They were great bulbs but would not work here. Its a
> good thought though.
>
> Bob
>
> "Dustmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Do you know anybody going to Europe? All their wiring is 220v and it
> looks
> > like the bulb bases are the same size(Edison) as US. Have them bring
you
> > back a cheap present.
> >
> >
> > "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Bob Davis" writes:
> > >
> > > > I recently bought a Jet drill press. Its seems to work well and I'm
> > happy
> > > > with it. I added power and wiring to my emerging shop and I have an
> > > > abundance of 220v. outlets. I convert every stationary power tool
to
> > > > 220volt. Last night I did the drill press. Before powering up, I
> > > > remembered about the builtin worklight, which uses a perfectly
> ordinary
> > 60
> > > > watt light bulb. Looking through Jet's manual and instructions,
there
> is
> > > no
> > > > mention anywhere about changes in the worklight when converting to
220
> > > volt.
> > > <snip a tale of woe>
> > >
> > > Forget trying to operate a 60W incandescent lamp at 240V, especially
in
> > this
> > > application.
> > >
> > > Why? Simply because the lamp filament is so fine it won't tolerate the
> > > vibration found on a typical drill press.
> > >
> > > Also, the cost, as you have found out, is prohibitive for small
> > quantities.
> > >
> > > Pull a neutral along with the two hots so that you can rewire the lamp
> > > holder to operate at 120V.
> > >
> > > Don't want to do that, then rewire the lamp holder with it's own 120V
> cord
> > > and plug.
> > >
> > > Can tell you a story about American Ship Building, owned by George
> > > Steinbrenner, yes the New York Yankees owner, then located in Lorain,
> > Ohio,
> > > and how they used 240V incandescent lamps, more than $25,000/year of a
> > > single wattage, which today would be close to $40K.
> > >
> > > Great labor relations story, but I digress.
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lew
> > >
> > > S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
> > Southland)
> > > Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I should have read it before I sent it . . . .
It's the fast one that gets the high voltage across it.
Art
"Wood Butcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:PDPDb.410848$ao4.1342718@attbi_s51...
> You should use same wattage & type bulbs from the same
> manufacturer.
>
> The cold resistance of a light bulb filament is much less than the
> hot resistance and this causes a much higher start-up current
> than steady state current. If one of your bulbs takes longer
> to heat up than the other, the slow one will experience a
> temporary voltage far in excess of 120V and this will shorten
> it's life. Sometime as drastically as the first time you turn it on.
>
> Art
>
> "Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article
> > <tMODb.60028$%[email protected]>,
> > "David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Is it as simple as running two 110 lights in series?
> >
> > Exactly. Make sure they're the same wattage, though. Putting two bulbs
> > of different wattages in series will do wierd stuff (light bulbs are
> > very non-linear resistors).
>
>
Well thanks to the cool heads in this conference and the stearn chastisement
about dangerous wiring, I fixed this for good. I ran a separate cord for
the worklight and spliced it in.... piece of cake, legal, safe. The only
part that urks me is that my new lamp cord is brown and does not match my
black power cord. <grin> Maybe there's an aftermarket for worklight upgrade
services. :-)
Bob
"Bob Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So I guess I'll go with my unauthorized rewiring job and get along with
> standard bulbs. They are so much cheaper, anyway.
There is no need to speculate.
It works. I'd had a problem with a yard light dying whenever it was hit
(lawn mower wheel, paper delivery bag ... didn't matter). I installed the
diode, got about 1/2 the light (I knew this) but the bulb was still going
strong 18 months later when I sold the house.
Another example was the short lifespan on an emergency exit lamp. Think it
was high ambient temperature coupled with building vibration, but installed
a diode there ... same bulb was going strong two years later when I
transfered.
Remember those "energy saver" buttons sold in the 1980s? They were nothing
more than a cardboard disk with a chip diode installed in the middle. Same
result (though you'll be hard pressed to find them these days). Easy to
install ... usually ended up soldering themselves to the lamp base and
getting tossed out when the lamp eventually died. Use 'em if you got 'em.
Remember that you're going to need to increase the wattage of the bulb a bit
more than 2x to get the same amount of visible light because at the lower
temperature, the lamp is putting quite a bit of energy into the infrared
region. Gives everything a reddish yellow cast instead of the tungsten-white
we're used to.
Again, no need to speculate ... it works.
Radio Shack part number 276-1104 is a 1N4005 diode rated at 1 amp
continuous, 600 peak inverse volts (PV or PIV). This should be good up to
200 watts (www.radioshack.com). Your local electronics parts supplier
(assuming you don't have a RS near you) can offer you their part number for
a 1N4005 ... you'll just have to ask.
Oh, and they are cheap ... think the RS price was $0.89 ... about the cost
of one 100 watt light bulb. If you want it cheaper, you can get them for
$0.017 each (in 5000 qty) from Digikey (www.digikey.com).
Rick
Who seriously thinks this thread has been thrashed about enough and deserves
to die a quiet, dignified death. RIP
"Roy Smith" wrote
... snip ...
> No, it will result in a 50% duty cycle full-voltage waveform. It's a
> decent start, but given how non-linear an incandescent filament is, I'm
> not sure you'll get what you want.
>
> On the other hand, most of the non-linearities are due to the
> resistivity of tungsten varying with temperature. The power cycling in
> a 50% duty cycle 60 Hz wave is probably fast enough that the temperature
> stays pretty steady.
>
> Still, I suspect Greg's right; as a practical matter, it's probably the
> simpliest and cheapest solution to the problem.
I'm using ground to get the 110v. There's lots of good suggestions posted
and no one liked the idea of using ground to get the 120v. Actually I
didn't either.
I've got neutral available in the power panel less than 10 feet away, but I
don't like the idea of running it just to use my worklight. That forces the
drill press to stay fixed in this location unless I rewire.
The idea of a convertor seemed good at first, but there's the logistics of
where to locate it. It would have to go outside the housing and require
additional external wiring.
Running an extra resistance or another light bulb is academically sound, but
not at all practical. I want to end up with a standard reliable light that
gives reasonable, reliable bulb life and I sure don't want to burn extra
power just to make my light bulb happy.
It seems the easiest solution is to bring the light wiring external and hook
it to a separate 120 circuit. I've got plenty of them, since I did not
skimp when rewiring the shop. For sure, it will meet code and avoid
potential dangers.
Another alternative that no one mentioned is to mount an accessory worklight
and forget the built-in one. That might actually be a good idea, as it
would be one that could be moved around. the fixed location behind the chuck
in the Jet is not the best location in the world.
Bob
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bob Davis" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Finally, I got out the wiring diagram and studied it. I changed one
> > connection to put 110 volt on the light, while leaving 220 volt on
> > the motor.
>
> This is strange. A standard 220V circuit doesn't have 110 available
> anywhere. One of several things must be going on:
>
> 1) You've got a 3-wire 220V circuit. The plug you're using would then
> have 4 pins (hot, hot, neutral, and ground). Possible, but unlikely.
>
> 2) There's a 2:1 stepdown transformer in the machine to derive 110 for
> the lamp. Possible, but unlikely.
>
> 3) The diagram has you using the ground on a standard 220V circuit as
> one side of your 110 for the lamp. Dangerous.
>
> I'm curious which it is.
Bob Davis wrote:
> I recently bought a Jet drill press. Its seems to work well and I'm happy
> with it. I added power and wiring to my emerging shop and I have an
> abundance of 220v. outlets. I convert every stationary power tool to
> 220volt. Last night I did the drill press. Before powering up, I
> remembered about the builtin worklight, which uses a perfectly ordinary 60
> watt light bulb. Looking through Jet's manual and instructions, there is no
> mention anywhere about changes in the worklight when converting to 220 volt.
> However, the internal schematic clearly shows the worklight is connected
> across the incoming power lines. So if these become 220 volt, then the
> light will be 220 volt, too.
>
> Before taking a chance, I called Jet technical support and asked about it.
> The tech guy was less than stunning - atypical of my support experience for
> my table saw. After my explanation of what the worklight was, he firmly
> stated that the bulb would not have to be changed. I tried to argue and
> explain the wiring. What I really wanted was Jet's direction on what kind
> of replacement bulb I should use and where to get it. He told me the bulb
> was only on one leg of the 220 and it would not be a problem.
>
> <sigh> Ok. So I powered up the drill and tested the motor. It ran just
> fine with no sign of distress running on 220 volt. I got that part right.
> Then I screwed in a light bulb. It went POW and tripped the circuit
> breaker, slightly melting the center contact on the bulb. I restored power
> and checked the voltage across the light bulb socket -- 240.1 volts.
>
> After searching for three hours and consulting with my dealer, he helped me
> find bulbs at Grainger and let me purchase under his dealership name.
> Great. I picked up two 60 watt 230 volt bulbs which cost an arm and a leg,
> by the way. I was really unhappy when I got home and discovered these bulbs
> were "fatter" than their 110 volt counterpart. They would not fit in the
> Jet drll press. Finally, I got out the wiring diagram and studied it. I
> changed one connection to put 110 volt on the light, while leaving 220 volt
> on the motor. After testing everything with a meter, I powered up. The motor
> still ran just fine and a 110 volt standard bulb worked fine.
>
> I had logged another call with jet support, leaving a message on their
> answering machine. Another tech rep called me and said the first rep was
> completely wrong when he told me I would not need to replace the bulb and he
> apologized. He told me I needed an appliance bulb like those used in
> electric ranges. Well, some more bad advice. I could not find a 220 volt
> appliance bulb anywhere.
>
> So I guess I'll go with my unauthorized rewiring job and get along with
> standard bulbs. They are so much cheaper, anyway.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
There are a lot of step up/step down 110V/220V converters
available for $10 or less. Safe and easy fix.
http://www.theelectroniccompany.com/SearchResult.aspx?
CategoryID=30
Dick
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Bob Davis wrote:
> The only
> part that urks me is that my new lamp cord is brown and does not match my
> black power cord. <grin> Maybe there's an aftermarket for worklight upgrade
> services. :-)
>
> Bob
Is anal retentive spelled with or without a hyphen? :)
Congrats on the fix.
Rico
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Dispite all the good answer, I read thru this entire thread waiting to
see if someone would post the MOST logical answer (in my mind) to this
problem and did not see it.
Think about the motor: in order for it to be usable at either 110 or 220
volts, it must havew 2 sets of windings. The windings connected in
parallel for low voltage operation, or in series for high voltage
operation. You currently have the latter configuration. If you connect
the lamp across one set of windings (ie from line to "center-tap"), the
lamp will "see" 110v. In effect you're using the motor as a transformer
(it is after all just windings on a magnetic core).
Since you've already implemented a fix, you may choose not to do this,
on the other hand you can get rid of that brown wire.
I had a Sears radial-arm saw, that's exactly how it was wired.
Good luck,
Abe
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Hi Dave,
>
> I'm pleased to ponder that question and give a reasoned answer. Actually I
> did ponder it before switching. Its not about the benefit for the drill
> press. Its about the flexibility of my 110 v power supply in the shop. I
> spent years working with barebones in the garage with one 20 amp circuit.
> Actually it was a 15 amp circuit (14 gauge) which the original builder
> mistakenly fed with a 20 amp breaker. My standard mode of operation was to
> switch off the air compressor when I wanted to run the bench grinder or shop
> vacuum. There was no such thing as running things simultaneously.
>
> So finally, I did the work and ran power with separate breaker panel for the
> shop. I have the shop physically partitioned into three 110 volt 20 amp
> circuits. During the winter I occasionally use an electric space heater (13
> amps). The drill press is 9 amps at 110volt when loaded. So that means I
> could not run the drill press and the space heater at the same time on the
> same circuit. Yeah, I know I could pay attention to which circuit things
> are plugged in, but that's a royal pain in the butt. After all that work
> wiring this place properly, I want to be able to run anything at any time
> within reason. My strategy from the get-go was to have three 220 circuits
> and sprinkle 220 sockets around liberally for the stationary shop tools.
>
> Yep, it was a hassle to fix the work light, but its a one shot hassle and I
> get to retain my totally flexible power situation. I knew I would change my
> mind about the shop layout as I learned more and acquired more tools. I
> also knew that I would need to have a mobile shop, since I'm not blessed
> with a 100x80 foot area. The one thing I could do that did not cost much
> but greatly enhanced my flexibility was to put in ample power and have
> outlets everywhere. I have a 220 volt outlet every three feet in my shop.
>
> Bob
>
> "David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > You've gotten so many good answers, but what I haven't seen is the
> > question of "why". How big of a drill press do you have that 220 is
> > needed or even beneficial? I always thought that until the motor gets
> > pretty big (2 hp or larger?) that 220 doesn't provide any benefits
> > over 110. Sticking on external work lights, rigging the wiring on a
> > major tool, and/or installing various combinations of lights and other
> > electric gizmos to get around a problem caused by the switch-over
> > wouldn't be my choice unless I received some significant benefit from
> > running my DP on 220. Have you considered switching it back?
> >
> > Dave Hall
>
>
>
Hi Bob:
True enough there will be an imbalance between the current in the motor
windings. With a 60 watt bulb that will be about 1/2 amp greater in one
winding. That represents about a 5 - 10% deviation, or about the same
deviation that would result just from the maufacturing variables in
building the motor.
While I understand your reluctance, as I said I owned a Sears radial arm
saw for many years. It was wired at the factory so that when the user
(me) decided to change from 120 to 240 volt operation I did not have to
concern myself with rewiring the bulb. I owned that machine for about 15
years, ran it at 120 for the first 7 or 8 years. My son now continues to
use it.
Good luck with whatever you decide. I just wanted to expose one more
solution.
Abe
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Abe,
>
> Your description is fascinating. At first, I did not understand how this
> would work. Then I realized that what you propose is an approximation, not
> a true tranformation splitting the voltage. Putting the light bulb across
> one of the windings means that you have two equal reactive loads in series,
> one of them wired in parallel with a resistive load (the bulb). The light
> bulb load is small compared to the motor windings. The net result is that
> the voltage drop across the winding-bulb will approximate half of the 220
> volt. My guess is that it will actually be less than half because you've
> reduced the overall impedence in that half of the circuit.
>
> The net result - the bulb will see something that it can run on, but the
> motor will see an imbalance in voltage across the two windings. It may be
> academic, but I'd rather not intentionally introduce an imbalance across the
> motor.
>
> Bob
>
>
> "Abe Litman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Dispite all the good answer, I read thru this entire thread waiting to
> > see if someone would post the MOST logical answer (in my mind) to this
> > problem and did not see it.
> >
> > Think about the motor: in order for it to be usable at either 110 or 220
> > volts, it must havew 2 sets of windings. The windings connected in
> > parallel for low voltage operation, or in series for high voltage
> > operation. You currently have the latter configuration. If you connect
> > the lamp across one set of windings (ie from line to "center-tap"), the
> > lamp will "see" 110v. In effect you're using the motor as a transformer
> > (it is after all just windings on a magnetic core).
> >
> > Since you've already implemented a fix, you may choose not to do this,
> > on the other hand you can get rid of that brown wire.
> >
> > I had a Sears radial-arm saw, that's exactly how it was wired.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Abe
> >
> >
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > I'm pleased to ponder that question and give a reasoned answer.
> Actually I
You should use same wattage & type bulbs from the same
manufacturer.
The cold resistance of a light bulb filament is much less than the
hot resistance and this causes a much higher start-up current
than steady state current. If one of your bulbs takes longer
to heat up than the other, the slow one will experience a
temporary voltage far in excess of 120V and this will shorten
it's life. Sometime as drastically as the first time you turn it on.
Art
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <tMODb.60028$%[email protected]>,
> "David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Is it as simple as running two 110 lights in series?
>
> Exactly. Make sure they're the same wattage, though. Putting two bulbs
> of different wattages in series will do wierd stuff (light bulbs are
> very non-linear resistors).
Do you have a neutral on your 240v to the saw? I expect not if you used
standard outlets and plugs. Presumably you ran the 120v through the bulb to
ground.
I don't have a real problem with that, but you should be aware that:
1) It is a code violation.
2) If under some bizarre situation you lose your ground connection, you will
have 300ma desparate to get to ground any way possible. One route it
through the saw, to you, to ground. I have never lost a ground, and I can't
imagine why you would, but you should be aware of the problem.
You could avoid this by simply putting another 120v bulb, or a suitable
resistor, in series with the existing one and putting 240 across them.
Why do you want a light in your saw anyhow?
"Bob Davis" writes:
> I recently bought a Jet drill press. Its seems to work well and I'm happy
> with it. I added power and wiring to my emerging shop and I have an
> abundance of 220v. outlets. I convert every stationary power tool to
> 220volt. Last night I did the drill press. Before powering up, I
> remembered about the builtin worklight, which uses a perfectly ordinary 60
> watt light bulb. Looking through Jet's manual and instructions, there is
no
> mention anywhere about changes in the worklight when converting to 220
volt.
<snip a tale of woe>
Forget trying to operate a 60W incandescent lamp at 240V, especially in this
application.
Why? Simply because the lamp filament is so fine it won't tolerate the
vibration found on a typical drill press.
Also, the cost, as you have found out, is prohibitive for small quantities.
Pull a neutral along with the two hots so that you can rewire the lamp
holder to operate at 120V.
Don't want to do that, then rewire the lamp holder with it's own 120V cord
and plug.
Can tell you a story about American Ship Building, owned by George
Steinbrenner, yes the New York Yankees owner, then located in Lorain, Ohio,
and how they used 240V incandescent lamps, more than $25,000/year of a
single wattage, which today would be close to $40K.
Great labor relations story, but I digress.
HTH
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
Roy Smith said:
>Greg G. wrote:
>> I agree, but morons will buy anything if your dress it up in a
>> colorful blister pack and promise the stars.
>
>Hmmmm. That explains some of the tools I've bought at HD. :-)
Yea, I'm pretty wary of much that is sold by Sears and Home Despot.
Especially if it's brightly colored and makes unrealistic promises.
Kind of like women... <g>
Greg G.
Abe,
Your description is fascinating. At first, I did not understand how this
would work. Then I realized that what you propose is an approximation, not
a true tranformation splitting the voltage. Putting the light bulb across
one of the windings means that you have two equal reactive loads in series,
one of them wired in parallel with a resistive load (the bulb). The light
bulb load is small compared to the motor windings. The net result is that
the voltage drop across the winding-bulb will approximate half of the 220
volt. My guess is that it will actually be less than half because you've
reduced the overall impedence in that half of the circuit.
The net result - the bulb will see something that it can run on, but the
motor will see an imbalance in voltage across the two windings. It may be
academic, but I'd rather not intentionally introduce an imbalance across the
motor.
Bob
"Abe Litman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dispite all the good answer, I read thru this entire thread waiting to
> see if someone would post the MOST logical answer (in my mind) to this
> problem and did not see it.
>
> Think about the motor: in order for it to be usable at either 110 or 220
> volts, it must havew 2 sets of windings. The windings connected in
> parallel for low voltage operation, or in series for high voltage
> operation. You currently have the latter configuration. If you connect
> the lamp across one set of windings (ie from line to "center-tap"), the
> lamp will "see" 110v. In effect you're using the motor as a transformer
> (it is after all just windings on a magnetic core).
>
> Since you've already implemented a fix, you may choose not to do this,
> on the other hand you can get rid of that brown wire.
>
> I had a Sears radial-arm saw, that's exactly how it was wired.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Abe
>
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > I'm pleased to ponder that question and give a reasoned answer.
Actually I
> > did ponder it before switching. Its not about the benefit for the drill
> > press. Its about the flexibility of my 110 v power supply in the shop.
I
> > spent years working with barebones in the garage with one 20 amp
circuit.
> > Actually it was a 15 amp circuit (14 gauge) which the original builder
> > mistakenly fed with a 20 amp breaker. My standard mode of operation was
to
> > switch off the air compressor when I wanted to run the bench grinder or
shop
> > vacuum. There was no such thing as running things simultaneously.
> >
> > So finally, I did the work and ran power with separate breaker panel for
the
> > shop. I have the shop physically partitioned into three 110 volt 20 amp
> > circuits. During the winter I occasionally use an electric space heater
(13
> > amps). The drill press is 9 amps at 110volt when loaded. So that means
I
> > could not run the drill press and the space heater at the same time on
the
> > same circuit. Yeah, I know I could pay attention to which circuit
things
> > are plugged in, but that's a royal pain in the butt. After all that
work
> > wiring this place properly, I want to be able to run anything at any
time
> > within reason. My strategy from the get-go was to have three 220
circuits
> > and sprinkle 220 sockets around liberally for the stationary shop tools.
> >
> > Yep, it was a hassle to fix the work light, but its a one shot hassle
and I
> > get to retain my totally flexible power situation. I knew I would
change my
> > mind about the shop layout as I learned more and acquired more tools. I
> > also knew that I would need to have a mobile shop, since I'm not blessed
> > with a 100x80 foot area. The one thing I could do that did not cost
much
> > but greatly enhanced my flexibility was to put in ample power and have
> > outlets everywhere. I have a 220 volt outlet every three feet in my
shop.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > "David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > You've gotten so many good answers, but what I haven't seen is the
> > > question of "why". How big of a drill press do you have that 220 is
> > > needed or even beneficial? I always thought that until the motor gets
> > > pretty big (2 hp or larger?) that 220 doesn't provide any benefits
> > > over 110. Sticking on external work lights, rigging the wiring on a
> > > major tool, and/or installing various combinations of lights and other
> > > electric gizmos to get around a problem caused by the switch-over
> > > wouldn't be my choice unless I received some significant benefit from
> > > running my DP on 220. Have you considered switching it back?
> > >
> > > Dave Hall
> >
> >
> >
Hi Dave,
I'm pleased to ponder that question and give a reasoned answer. Actually I
did ponder it before switching. Its not about the benefit for the drill
press. Its about the flexibility of my 110 v power supply in the shop. I
spent years working with barebones in the garage with one 20 amp circuit.
Actually it was a 15 amp circuit (14 gauge) which the original builder
mistakenly fed with a 20 amp breaker. My standard mode of operation was to
switch off the air compressor when I wanted to run the bench grinder or shop
vacuum. There was no such thing as running things simultaneously.
So finally, I did the work and ran power with separate breaker panel for the
shop. I have the shop physically partitioned into three 110 volt 20 amp
circuits. During the winter I occasionally use an electric space heater (13
amps). The drill press is 9 amps at 110volt when loaded. So that means I
could not run the drill press and the space heater at the same time on the
same circuit. Yeah, I know I could pay attention to which circuit things
are plugged in, but that's a royal pain in the butt. After all that work
wiring this place properly, I want to be able to run anything at any time
within reason. My strategy from the get-go was to have three 220 circuits
and sprinkle 220 sockets around liberally for the stationary shop tools.
Yep, it was a hassle to fix the work light, but its a one shot hassle and I
get to retain my totally flexible power situation. I knew I would change my
mind about the shop layout as I learned more and acquired more tools. I
also knew that I would need to have a mobile shop, since I'm not blessed
with a 100x80 foot area. The one thing I could do that did not cost much
but greatly enhanced my flexibility was to put in ample power and have
outlets everywhere. I have a 220 volt outlet every three feet in my shop.
Bob
"David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You've gotten so many good answers, but what I haven't seen is the
> question of "why". How big of a drill press do you have that 220 is
> needed or even beneficial? I always thought that until the motor gets
> pretty big (2 hp or larger?) that 220 doesn't provide any benefits
> over 110. Sticking on external work lights, rigging the wiring on a
> major tool, and/or installing various combinations of lights and other
> electric gizmos to get around a problem caused by the switch-over
> wouldn't be my choice unless I received some significant benefit from
> running my DP on 220. Have you considered switching it back?
>
> Dave Hall
Rick said:
>Remember those "energy saver" buttons sold in the 1980s? They were nothing
>more than a cardboard disk with a chip diode installed in the middle. Same
Thanks for the support. <g> But...
Not to be pedantic, but actually the 'energy saver disks' were a
negative temperature coefficient thermistor. High resistance when
cold, but when current started to flow, they heated up, causing a drop
in resistance, giving the bulb near full brightness. Eliminated the
high current surge through a cold filament - which has a very low
resistance.
>Remember that you're going to need to increase the wattage of the bulb a bit
>more than 2x to get the same amount of visible light because at the lower
Not necessary when using on 240v, however. The 120v bulb will glow at
full brightness. At 120v, of course, this WOULD apply.
There is a difference between 120 to neutral and 240 across two
opposite (or 120 degree/3p) hots. Or something like that... <g>
Greg G.
Not in the USA and your bulbs won't fit my wonky screw-in sockets.
Bob
"Juergen Hannappel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bob Davis" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
> > After searching for three hours and consulting with my dealer, he helped
me
> > find bulbs at Grainger and let me purchase under his dealership name.
> > Great. I picked up two 60 watt 230 volt bulbs which cost an arm and a
leg,
>
> I get them for about about 80 cents in every store...
>
> --
> Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
> mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
> Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
> CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23
Bob Davis wrote:
>
> It seems the easiest solution is to bring the light wiring external and hook
> it to a separate 120 circuit. I've got plenty of them, since I did not
> skimp when rewiring the shop. For sure, it will meet code and avoid
> potential dangers.
>
> Another alternative that no one mentioned is to mount an accessory worklight
> and forget the built-in one.
Those solutions are too easy.
I had a similar problem when putting an hour meter on my compressor.
Since the compressor is hard wired through seal tight I only needed to
run a neutral in addition to the ground and power.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
When I was in Europe (lived in Ireland for 9 months), all the light bulbs
were bayonet based. They were great bulbs but would not work here. Its a
good thought though.
Bob
"Dustmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do you know anybody going to Europe? All their wiring is 220v and it
looks
> like the bulb bases are the same size(Edison) as US. Have them bring you
> back a cheap present.
>
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Bob Davis" writes:
> >
> > > I recently bought a Jet drill press. Its seems to work well and I'm
> happy
> > > with it. I added power and wiring to my emerging shop and I have an
> > > abundance of 220v. outlets. I convert every stationary power tool to
> > > 220volt. Last night I did the drill press. Before powering up, I
> > > remembered about the builtin worklight, which uses a perfectly
ordinary
> 60
> > > watt light bulb. Looking through Jet's manual and instructions, there
is
> > no
> > > mention anywhere about changes in the worklight when converting to 220
> > volt.
> > <snip a tale of woe>
> >
> > Forget trying to operate a 60W incandescent lamp at 240V, especially in
> this
> > application.
> >
> > Why? Simply because the lamp filament is so fine it won't tolerate the
> > vibration found on a typical drill press.
> >
> > Also, the cost, as you have found out, is prohibitive for small
> quantities.
> >
> > Pull a neutral along with the two hots so that you can rewire the lamp
> > holder to operate at 120V.
> >
> > Don't want to do that, then rewire the lamp holder with it's own 120V
cord
> > and plug.
> >
> > Can tell you a story about American Ship Building, owned by George
> > Steinbrenner, yes the New York Yankees owner, then located in Lorain,
> Ohio,
> > and how they used 240V incandescent lamps, more than $25,000/year of a
> > single wattage, which today would be close to $40K.
> >
> > Great labor relations story, but I digress.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lew
> >
> > S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
> Southland)
> > Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
> >
> >
>
>
"Bob Davis" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Finally, I got out the wiring diagram and studied it. I changed one
> connection to put 110 volt on the light, while leaving 220 volt on
> the motor.
This is strange. A standard 220V circuit doesn't have 110 available
anywhere. One of several things must be going on:
1) You've got a 3-wire 220V circuit. The plug you're using would then
have 4 pins (hot, hot, neutral, and ground). Possible, but unlikely.
2) There's a 2:1 stepdown transformer in the machine to derive 110 for
the lamp. Possible, but unlikely.
3) The diagram has you using the ground on a standard 220V circuit as
one side of your 110 for the lamp. Dangerous.
I'm curious which it is.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
> You could avoid this by simply putting another 120v bulb, or a suitable
> resistor, in series with the existing one and putting 240 across them.
I like the first idea better.
There's nothing in theory wrong with the idea of a "suitable resistor",
but it's gonna be a big one, because the power is going to split evenly
between the bulb and the resistor. A 60W resistor is a pretty hefty
item.
Might as well just make it a bulb and get some useful light out of it.
In article
<tMODb.60028$%[email protected]>,
"David F. Eisan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> > "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > You could avoid this by simply putting another 120v bulb, or a suitable
> > > resistor, in series with the existing one and putting 240 across them.
> >
> > I like the first idea better.
>
> Does this work? I am an electrical idiot, but this would solve my problem
> about putting a lamp in the pool shed that only has 220v with a ground and
> no neutral.
>
> Is it as simple as running two 110 lights in series?
Exactly. Make sure they're the same wattage, though. Putting two bulbs
of different wattages in series will do wierd stuff (light bulbs are
very non-linear resistors).
"Dustmaker" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Do you know anybody going to Europe? All their wiring is 220v and it looks
> like the bulb bases are the same size(Edison) as US. Have them bring you
> back a cheap present.
Or just order some.
http://www.lightbulbcity.us/catalog/product_16782_A19_Standard_220V.html
In article <[email protected]>, Greg G. wrote:
> But the correct answer is:
> Put a simple 1 amp 600PIV rectifier (diode) in series with the bulb
> lead. It will drop the negative going cycle resulting in half the
> voltage - easy.
No, it will result in a 50% duty cycle full-voltage waveform. It's a
decent start, but given how non-linear an incandescent filament is, I'm
not sure you'll get what you want.
On the other hand, most of the non-linearities are due to the
resistivity of tungsten varying with temperature. The power cycling in
a 50% duty cycle 60 Hz wave is probably fast enough that the temperature
stays pretty steady.
Still, I suspect Greg's right; as a practical matter, it's probably the
simpliest and cheapest solution to the problem.
In article <[email protected]>, Greg G. wrote:
> Rick said:
>
> >Remember those "energy saver" buttons sold in the 1980s? They were nothing
> >more than a cardboard disk with a chip diode installed in the middle. Same
>
> Thanks for the support. <g> But...
>
> Not to be pedantic, but actually the 'energy saver disks' were a
> negative temperature coefficient thermistor. High resistance when
> cold, but when current started to flow, they heated up, causing a drop
> in resistance, giving the bulb near full brightness. Eliminated the
> high current surge through a cold filament - which has a very low
> resistance.
How does that save energy? The bulb reaches thermal equilibrium in a
small fraction of a second. Much too fast for the high inrush current
to be a significant factor in overall energy use. I could certainly see
how it might increase bulb life, by reducing thermal shock to the
filament, but save energy? I don't see how.
If you want to save energy, use a smaller bulb. Anything along the
lines of dimmers/diodes/thermistors just makes the bulb operate at a
voltage/current/temperature point different from it's design point, and
thus less efficient. Sure, you can make a 100W bulb draw 75W, but it'll
put out less light than a 75W bulb running at full power.
In article <[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
> Forget trying to operate a 60W incandescent lamp at 240V, especially in this
> application.
>
> Why? Simply because the lamp filament is so fine it won't tolerate the
> vibration found on a typical drill press.
Good point about the vibration. I use one of those cheap clamp lights
clipped to one of the joists above my drill press. But if you are going to
mount to the drill press, check out the garage door opener light bulbs. They
are made with a heavy duty filament to tolerate the vibration. Of course you
still need to do something about the 120v supply.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
Hello everyone,
> "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > You could avoid this by simply putting another 120v bulb, or a suitable
> > resistor, in series with the existing one and putting 240 across them.
>
> I like the first idea better.
Does this work? I am an electrical idiot, but this would solve my problem
about putting a lamp in the pool shed that only has 220v with a ground and
no neutral.
Is it as simple as running two 110 lights in series?
Thanks,
David.
Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.
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Roy Smith said:
>No, it will result in a 50% duty cycle full-voltage waveform. It's a
>decent start, but given how non-linear an incandescent filament is, I'm
>not sure you'll get what you want.
Yea, you're right - but I didn't want to get into all that. <g>
Perhaps I would have been more accurate to say the bulb *appears* to
be operating at half voltage.
>On the other hand, most of the non-linearities are due to the
>resistivity of tungsten varying with temperature. The power cycling in
>a 50% duty cycle 60 Hz wave is probably fast enough that the temperature
>stays pretty steady.
The filament doesn't cool enough to notice the flicker.
If it were fluorescent (and don't try it, it won't work), however, the
flicker would drive you insane...
>Still, I suspect Greg's right; as a practical matter, it's probably the
>simpliest and cheapest solution to the problem.
Works for me. Use a diode of 1 amp minimum for an 80 watt bulb, 2
amps for 160 watts. (Spec de-rated for safety...)
Greg G.
"Ian Wheeler" <IanWheeler@no_spam.Adelphia.net> writes:
> I know the UK / Ireland use bayonet based, but I believe France, Germany,
> Italy etc use screw in bulbs. It's been a long time, but I think they're
> closer to 220V as well (UK is 240V).
In France both screw in and bayonet are used, withe screw-in
unfortunately becoming more poular; Germany has only screw in.
The voltage was harmonized in europe to 230V, UK had 240; many other
countrys had 220.
In Europe anyway you usually have a decent 3-phase supply with 400
Volts between two outer conductors and 230 betwen outer and neutral.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23
"Bob Davis" <[email protected]> writes:
[...]
> After searching for three hours and consulting with my dealer, he helped me
> find bulbs at Grainger and let me purchase under his dealership name.
> Great. I picked up two 60 watt 230 volt bulbs which cost an arm and a leg,
I get them for about about 80 cents in every store...
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23
"Bob Davis" <[email protected]> writes:
> Well, some more bad advice. I could not find a 220 volt appliance
> bulb anywhere.
Call a store that sells electric ovens.
Uh Toller, I did not ever mention putting a light on my saw. Its for my
drill press.
Bob
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do you have a neutral on your 240v to the saw? I expect not if you used
> standard outlets and plugs. Presumably you ran the 120v through the bulb
to
> ground.
>
> I don't have a real problem with that, but you should be aware that:
> 1) It is a code violation.
> 2) If under some bizarre situation you lose your ground connection, you
will
> have 300ma desparate to get to ground any way possible. One route it
> through the saw, to you, to ground. I have never lost a ground, and I
can't
> imagine why you would, but you should be aware of the problem.
>
> You could avoid this by simply putting another 120v bulb, or a suitable
> resistor, in series with the existing one and putting 240 across them.
>
> Why do you want a light in your saw anyhow?
>
>