What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
(satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium
channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not
premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.
They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or
were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every
single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW
and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time.
Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting
warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to
me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing
a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland." Apart from the movies (most
of which are PPV) there seems to be less quality content than when
there were only 3 or 4.
So, the conservatives have AM radio (with the exception of the failing
Air America--failing even with George Soros and his megabuck
contributions) and the liberals have Corporation for Public
Broadcasting paid for with your tax dollars + Hollywood and its
mindless Jane Fonda types. Wonder who's getting the long end of that
stick? Hmm. Let me see if I can figure it out.
Joe
Joe:
NPR which is not
> premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
> of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
> money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.
You probably read the answer about Dave Marks. It was decided
some time ago, that he was going to halt. Anyways, I'll give
you my view about NPR. First off, each station in the NPR
network, decides its schedules. If they want to drop NYW or TOH,
it's up to them. Your local stations probably do viewer profiles and
got
a feeling that these shows don't draw an audience big enough
to serve.
The NPR stations get money from YOU and the Feds. That's why they
beg. I don't like it,but the other alternative is do what a lot
of other nations do - tax you and they hand out the dough. If you
would contact your local stations, about the shows, (a letter might
work), it would
register better than protesting in a news group. (just my 2 cents).
Now NYW and TOH are owned either jointly or outright by Time Warner
and Marsh Productions. They sell the SHOWs to your local
friendly NPR channel. The local channel has to PAY them. The Gov't
doesn't own the production or pay the "stars", etc. I would
imagine that each show is in the neighborhood of
about $250,000 to produce. That means, writing, scripting,
editing, on air talent, directing, etc. Probably even more.
A lot of money to recover!
I think over time, a lot of these shows are going to be available
on a subscription basis over the Internet. Already, you can
see "Lost" episodes a week after they are broadcasted and
there will be more of this. I would imagine that Marsh and
Time-Warner are trying to figure out how to get their
content (their shows) into the public more and make
more money. Would you pay $1.99 to download an episode
to your computer and watch it? If you would, drop the show's
owners a line.
Bottom line, if you don't like what you see, let your
cable and satellite company know!
MJ Wallace
On Jan 30, 10:31 pm, Joe Bleau <[email protected]> wrote:
> What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
> summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
> (satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable.
Our local PBS channel in Tallahassee (also on Comcast cable) carries
NYW. Have you checked out The Woodworking Channel at http://
www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/
Dick Durbin
>
> Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on
> donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the
> sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.
Not sure what the point is. First off, the tax deductions are
controlled
by individuals, not by government. In that, you chose to send
money to whoever you want to - religious or
other charity organizations. So to claim that
these groups GET support from the government because you get
a deduction on your taxes, is odd. Tho, in a way, I could see it
as making sure that SOME of YOUR money is diverted from the federal
budget to your local charity. If that's what you mean, I agree.
But where I disagree is that in some way means that there is
support from the federal government because of tax deductions is
a bit hard for me to follow.
The product placement is the "price of admission" for Delta or other
corporations to contribute to the PRODUCTION (I bet) of the show.
There
might be SOME money coming to the local stations, but I would think
it would be in the reduced cost of buying the series. If your local
PBS station got NYW for $200g for the season WITHOUT
Delta's ads or for $100g WITH the ads, guess which one they
will chose?
MJ Wallace
> What you're missing is that the government decides what is and is not
> a charity eligible for deductible donations. By deciding that PBS or
> NPR stations are eligible they are willingly foregoing tax revenue.
I understand that, but were you making the point that federal
tax dollars in some indirect way (thru tax deductions) were
flowing to PBS stations? If so, I disagree. Listing as
a tax deductable non-profit org. is a listing on the
federal tax register. No money goes to my favorite
charity or non-profit unless I MAKE it so. The
government is neutral. It doesn''t care less if I give
to a religious or save-the-whales org. There's no
direct support other than how YOU decide.
The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
what the fed provides.
MJ Wallace
On Feb 1, 7:52 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> George wrote:
>
> > Then there are the
> > sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off
>
> Any business owner will tell you it's cheaper to pay the tax than to
> give money away simply for the purposes of "writing it off". <G>
I find the biggest problem with 'write-offs' is that you have to make
a taxable profit first before you get to write anything off.
A deduction at low-level income doesn't have the same effect as a
deduction which moves you into a lower bracket.
I just hear this shit, because I operate as a non-profit. <G> Not
supposed to be a non-profit...but, good thing the Sprinter Dodge vans
use Mercedes parts...if you know what I mean.
On Feb 1, 8:51 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
> > money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
> > I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
> > what the fed provides.
>
> Judging from the Taj Mahal built for upper management's offices here, what
> they really *need* is to lose the arrogance that comes with suckling on the
> public tit.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 1/27/07
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/AYI.jpg
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 03:32:12 +0000 (UTC),
[email protected] (Larry) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Uh where do you think the money the feds give them comes from?
>>
>>As for the "other alternative", the "other alternative" is to pull the
>>plug on them. With more than a thousand channels available on just
>>about any cable system, why do we need one more that's government
>>subsidized?
>>
>
>For one thing, believe it ot not, not everyone has cable or satellite.
>Of those 1000 channels, how many have locally oriented programming that
>really means anything to your community? In my city, the local commercial
>channels have news shows a couple times a day where they pretty much
>repeat headlines from the local paper. They do a credible job with
>the weather but as far as any depth of reporting on local news &
>events, forget it. OTOH, the public TV station & NPR radio station
>have real and detailed local content for a signifcant part of their
>programming day and the national programming they carry is often of
>a type that is simply no longer played on commercial stations. They do
>have some ads but in length, quality, and content, they are nothing
>like the obnoxious advertising on the commercial channels.
>
>If you examine the FCC policies and regulations it is apparent ALL
>broadcasters & spectrum users are subsidized, perhaps some less directly
>than others, but on the whole the system is very much geared towards
>providing benefits to business rather than the consumers. I don't believe
>that the small amount of federal funding public radio and TV receives
>is misspent. Public broadcasting provides a valuable service, at least
>in my area. If these stations had the plug pulled, it is highly
>unlikely that commercial broadcasters would step up to replace that.
>
>
>
>
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:54:43 GMT, John Siegel
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Cable here in NJ has been showing Woodturning Workshop from (I think)
>channel 21 in Long Island.
>However the show appears to be affiliated with Rutgers. I do not know if
>theses are old shows or if more are being made since recent shows have
>been repeats. There has been some very nice photography showing quite
>clearly the tool presentation on the work piece.
If you're talking about the one with Tim Yoder as the host, that's out
of Rogers State University in Oklahoma. I like that a lot. He cracks
me up every time he tries to pronounce cyanoacrylate and I like his
teaching "always sneak up on a bead."
It's a far better show than "Woodturning Techniques" which was on DIY
for quite a while.
From the program notes incuded on my satellite, the first ones aired
about a year ago, and it seems like they have around 15 or 20 in the
can.
I get it on my third of three PBS stations.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 05:00:24 GMT, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Now, here's the downside. Once you have watched everything on the
>woodworking channel, wait a year before going back to the site. They
>occasionally have something different but the majority of it has been
>running for about a year, over and over.
... and that's different from regular TV, how? :-)
>
>"Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Wow! Thanks a lot for turning me on to thewoodworkingchannel.com. I
>> went to check it out and ended up watching 2 hours of programming.
>> Screw NPR, CPB, PBS, Comcast, Direct TV and all the rest of the
>> dinosaur media. The future is upon us.
>>
>> Joe
>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
LRod wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:31:40 -0500, Joe Bleau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
>>summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
>>(satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium
>>channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not
>>premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
>>of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
>>money.
>
>
> As has already been pointed out, you almost surely mean PBS. And "two
> weeks a year?" It must be at least two weeks per quarter, maybe more.
> I'd be happy if it was only two weeks a year.
>
>
>>New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.
>
>
> Apples and oranges. David Marks only appeared on DIY (and still does,
> as you point out, in reruns). No new episodes have been made in at
> least three years.
>
> NYW original episodes and recent reruns only appear on PBS. For a few
> years the older seasons (beginning with the first) were broadcast on
> HGTV, but that expired approximately four years ago, also. I doubt
> you'll be seeing any NYW programs older than about 2002 on PBS.
>
> On both the satellite (with certain exceptions) and cable, you get the
> local PBS outlet, not the national feed. As has been pointed out
> elsewhere, the local stations may or may not carry NYW or any other of
> the various woodworking content.
>
> I get three local PBSes on my satellite. The three major woodworking
> shows, NYW, American Woodshop, and The Woodwright's Shop are not all
> shown on any one of the three stations. All three do carry NYW, but
> only one carries TWWS (and it has the least coverage of the three
> stations), and only one carries AW (one of the other outlets).
>
>
>>They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or
>>were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every
>>single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW
>>and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time.
>
>
> You are the victim of local programming for those shows (NYW and TOH).
> Marks' show explained above.
>
>
>>Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting
>>warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to
>>me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing
>>a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland."
>
>
> Yeah, HGTV really went downhill with that and frankly, with the
> exception of Marks' show, DIY has never been up the hill.
>
>
>>Apart from the movies (most of which are PPV) there seems to be less
>>quality content than when there were only 3 or 4.
>
>
> Fortunately, on my satellite (DishNetwork), in addition to IFC, TCM,
> and FoxMovies (all of which play without commercials, and I believe
> are on the basic package), I get six or seven other movie channels
> (not PPV and not exactly premium like HBO, but bundled in a higher
> level package which includes DIY and the Military Channel).
>
> There is a lot of time to fill on those (and other movie channels) and
> frankly, a trip to any video store will confirm that there is just
> about the same percentage of quality content on cable/satellite as
> there is on video (which means the general video library). That means
> not a lot of quality content available to fill that mass of air time.
>
> Don't forget that your idea of quality content may not be the same as
> my idea of quality content (or others') so the content deciders are
> facing a no-win proposition in their programming decisions, no matter
> what. If not one more chop-socky movie were ever played, I'd be a
> happy camper, for example.
>
>
Cable here in NJ has been showing Woodturning Workshop from (I think)
channel 21 in Long Island.
However the show appears to be affiliated with Rutgers. I do not know if
theses are old shows or if more are being made since recent shows have
been repeats. There has been some very nice photography showing quite
clearly the tool presentation on the work piece.
LRod wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:54:43 GMT, John Siegel
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Cable here in NJ has been showing Woodturning Workshop from (I think)
>>channel 21 in Long Island.
>>However the show appears to be affiliated with Rutgers. I do not know if
>>theses are old shows or if more are being made since recent shows have
>>been repeats. There has been some very nice photography showing quite
>>clearly the tool presentation on the work piece.
>
>
> If you're talking about the one with Tim Yoder as the host, that's out
> of Rogers State University in Oklahoma. I like that a lot. He cracks
> me up every time he tries to pronounce cyanoacrylate and I like his
> teaching "always sneak up on a bead."
>
> It's a far better show than "Woodturning Techniques" which was on DIY
> for quite a while.
>
> From the program notes incuded on my satellite, the first ones aired
> about a year ago, and it seems like they have around 15 or 20 in the
> can.
>
> I get it on my third of three PBS stations.
>
>
Yes that is the one. THe latest one to show/repeat here was the episode
about felling
a tree.
John
Joe Bleau <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
> summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
> (satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium
> channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not
> premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
> of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
> money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.
> They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or
> were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every
> single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW
> and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time.
> Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting
> warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to
> me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing
> a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland." Apart from the movies (most
> of which are PPV) there seems to be less quality content than when
> there were only 3 or 4.
>
http://thewoodworkingchannel.com/
The idiots deciding what shows to run have a nasty habit of showing the
same 10 shows over and over and over again. While that's great for
someone trying to memorize a show (that's what recording devices are
for), it's terrible for someone watching the show for its entertainment
value.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
On 2007-01-31 11:12:49 -0600, Brian Henderson
<[email protected]> said:
>
> And all of those channels are paid for and supposedly making a profit
> through the advertisers and are popular enough with the viewers to
> stay on the air. PBS and similar "public" stations simply are not,
> they would fail in a minute if they were left to their own devices.
>
> They shouldn't get a penny of federal funding, period. If enough
> people don't want to watch them, then why bother having them around to
> begin with? I'm sure channels like DIY would be more than happy to
> pick up TOH and NYW first-run.
How much money for "public" stations comes from the government? Not a
whole lot anymore. How much free money do other stations receive? Great
gobs of it depending how you calculate the subsidies, handouts and
propaganda payoffs.
Your analysis reminds me of the sort of spin conservative talk radio
progpagates. It isn't reality based but it sure is emotionally
satisfying.
"JMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GD7wh.9953$Hb6.9363@trndny02...
>
> The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The
> CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).
>
> The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
> rounding error.
>
> In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
> appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.
>
> Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.
>
> http://thebudgetgraph.com/
Since it's so insignificant, please multiply your family income by .036% and
mail it to me. Email me for the address.
todd
On 31 Jan 2007 21:09:36 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
>money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
>I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
>what the fed provides.
No, what they need is to live within their means and get off the
public dole entirely. But then they'd need to show things people
actually wanted to see and be able to compete, wouldn't they?
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:31:40 -0500, Joe Bleau <[email protected]>
wrote:
>What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the
>summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV
>(satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium
>channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not
>premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
>of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
>money.
As has already been pointed out, you almost surely mean PBS. And "two
weeks a year?" It must be at least two weeks per quarter, maybe more.
I'd be happy if it was only two weeks a year.
>New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.
Apples and oranges. David Marks only appeared on DIY (and still does,
as you point out, in reruns). No new episodes have been made in at
least three years.
NYW original episodes and recent reruns only appear on PBS. For a few
years the older seasons (beginning with the first) were broadcast on
HGTV, but that expired approximately four years ago, also. I doubt
you'll be seeing any NYW programs older than about 2002 on PBS.
On both the satellite (with certain exceptions) and cable, you get the
local PBS outlet, not the national feed. As has been pointed out
elsewhere, the local stations may or may not carry NYW or any other of
the various woodworking content.
I get three local PBSes on my satellite. The three major woodworking
shows, NYW, American Woodshop, and The Woodwright's Shop are not all
shown on any one of the three stations. All three do carry NYW, but
only one carries TWWS (and it has the least coverage of the three
stations), and only one carries AW (one of the other outlets).
>They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or
>were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every
>single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW
>and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time.
You are the victim of local programming for those shows (NYW and TOH).
Marks' show explained above.
>Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting
>warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to
>me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing
>a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland."
Yeah, HGTV really went downhill with that and frankly, with the
exception of Marks' show, DIY has never been up the hill.
>Apart from the movies (most of which are PPV) there seems to be less
>quality content than when there were only 3 or 4.
Fortunately, on my satellite (DishNetwork), in addition to IFC, TCM,
and FoxMovies (all of which play without commercials, and I believe
are on the basic package), I get six or seven other movie channels
(not PPV and not exactly premium like HBO, but bundled in a higher
level package which includes DIY and the Military Channel).
There is a lot of time to fill on those (and other movie channels) and
frankly, a trip to any video store will confirm that there is just
about the same percentage of quality content on cable/satellite as
there is on video (which means the general video library). That means
not a lot of quality content available to fill that mass of air time.
Don't forget that your idea of quality content may not be the same as
my idea of quality content (or others') so the content deciders are
facing a no-win proposition in their programming decisions, no matter
what. If not one more chop-socky movie were ever played, I'd be a
happy camper, for example.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
On 30 Jan 2007 23:28:46 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Joe:
>
> NPR which is not
>> premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount
>> of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more
>> money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly.
>
>You probably read the answer about Dave Marks. It was decided
>some time ago, that he was going to halt. Anyways, I'll give
>you my view about NPR. First off, each station in the NPR
>network, decides its schedules. If they want to drop NYW or TOH,
>it's up to them. Your local stations probably do viewer profiles and
>got
>a feeling that these shows don't draw an audience big enough
>to serve.
>
>The NPR stations get money from YOU and the Feds. That's why they
>beg. I don't like it,but the other alternative is do what a lot
>of other nations do - tax you and they hand out the dough.
Uh where do you think the money the feds give them comes from?
As for the "other alternative", the "other alternative" is to pull the
plug on them. With more than a thousand channels available on just
about any cable system, why do we need one more that's government
subsidized?
>If you
>would contact your local stations, about the shows, (a letter might
>work), it would
>register better than protesting in a news group. (just my 2 cents).
>
>Now NYW and TOH are owned either jointly or outright by Time Warner
>and Marsh Productions. They sell the SHOWs to your local
>friendly NPR channel. The local channel has to PAY them. The Gov't
>doesn't own the production or pay the "stars", etc. I would
>imagine that each show is in the neighborhood of
>about $250,000 to produce. That means, writing, scripting,
>editing, on air talent, directing, etc. Probably even more.
>A lot of money to recover!
>
>I think over time, a lot of these shows are going to be available
>on a subscription basis over the Internet. Already, you can
>see "Lost" episodes a week after they are broadcasted and
>there will be more of this. I would imagine that Marsh and
>Time-Warner are trying to figure out how to get their
>content (their shows) into the public more and make
>more money. Would you pay $1.99 to download an episode
>to your computer and watch it? If you would, drop the show's
>owners a line.
>
>Bottom line, if you don't like what you see, let your
>cable and satellite company know!
>
>MJ Wallace
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George wrote:
>>
>> Then there are the sponsors who supply production money - for a
>> write-off
>
> Any business owner will tell you it's cheaper to pay the tax than to give
> money away simply for the purposes of "writing it off". <G>
The point was that it was money denied the government, and thus equivalent
to government subsidy.
Depends on your tax situation whether you report it as advertising expense,
which it can be here, or as donation.
Sidebar further off topic. On NPR this morning the commentator mentioned
that Litvinenko had been poisoned with, and enunciated for emphasis
"plutonium" rather than polonium. Big difference in availability which was
hopefully not by intent or implication.
J. Clarke wrote:
> NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
J. Clarke wrote:
> NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
So?
The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B).
The CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).
The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
rounding error.
In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.
Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.
http://thebudgetgraph.com/
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Well, just from your comment alone, cutting CPB budget would more than
> pay for that $250M Alaskan Bridge to nowhere.
And that is a good thing? Just trying to understand if you are tough,
dumb or both.
>
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
> If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
>
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Now, here's the downside. Once you have watched everything on the
woodworking channel, wait a year before going back to the site. They
occasionally have something different but the majority of it has been
running for about a year, over and over.
"Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Wow! Thanks a lot for turning me on to thewoodworkingchannel.com. I
> went to check it out and ended up watching 2 hours of programming.
> Screw NPR, CPB, PBS, Comcast, Direct TV and all the rest of the
> dinosaur media. The future is upon us.
>
> Joe
"JMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GD7wh.9953$Hb6.9363@trndny02...
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>
> > NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>
> So?
>
> The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The
> CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).
>
> The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
> rounding error.
>
> In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
> appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.
>
> Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.
>
> http://thebudgetgraph.com/
Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on
donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the
sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.
Joe Bleau <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> What has happened to the woodworking shows?
David Marks contract with the DIY folks wasn't renewed, so, at least for
the foreseeable future, there will be no more new Woodworks programs.
David came and spoke at our wooddorkers' club, showed some of his really
neat stuff, and said he was of two minds about not doing any more work for
those folks. Some of what he showed got to be repetitive, because you can
only do so much in 18 minutes air time, really.
Norm's new stuff in on PBS here, which I get as part of the locals package
on DirecTV. Whether you like the choices they've made is another
discussion. There are at least 5 PBS stations shown in the SF Bay Area
local package.
Florida for the winter has to have at least one downside beyond tourists.
Maybe Comcast cable tv is that downside. ;)
Patriarch
LRod <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:54:43 GMT, John Siegel
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Cable here in NJ has been showing Woodturning Workshop from (I think)
>>channel 21 in Long Island.
>>However the show appears to be affiliated with Rutgers. I do not know if
>>theses are old shows or if more are being made since recent shows have
>>been repeats. There has been some very nice photography showing quite
>>clearly the tool presentation on the work piece.
>
> If you're talking about the one with Tim Yoder as the host, that's out
> of Rogers State University in Oklahoma. I like that a lot. He cracks
> me up every time he tries to pronounce cyanoacrylate and I like his
> teaching "always sneak up on a bead."
>
> It's a far better show than "Woodturning Techniques" which was on DIY
> for quite a while.
>
> From the program notes incuded on my satellite, the first ones aired
> about a year ago, and it seems like they have around 15 or 20 in the
> can.
>
> I get it on my third of three PBS stations.
>
>
This one is on a TiVo season pass. I like the fellow's style. And there's
a Yoder in the family tree, back a handful of generations, too.
Patriarch
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:39:45 -0500, Leuf <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>The future repeats itself continously, pausing sporadically to buffer?
>
>Don't get me wrong there's some neat stuff sprinkled in there.
>
>Then there's the "Look, it's a Festool sander. It's better than
>yours. Too bad you'll never be able to afford it" and the "Let's see
>how many ways we can use a pocket hole jig. Some of them even make
>sense!"
>
>
>-Leuf
I agree. I recognized the commercial promotion. The guy spent hours
making pocket holes to build a mantle. I would have done it with my
nail gun and construction adhesive and it would have looked just as
good---better because I would have used raised panels and panel
molding instead of the stamped molding he used. He could have put
construction adhesive on the rails and stiles and nailed them directly
to the wall. Nail holes are easy to fill if you are going to paint.
And, since it was all paint grade I would have used MDF for the rails,
stiles and panels. It just occurred to me that you might not know what
I am referring to. When I was watching a guy was building a mantle
dressed out with 9 ft. pilasters and flat panels.
But, it takes money to keep a site like that running and it has to
come for somewhere. I just hope the site operators don't load it up
with advertising to such a degree that it's no longer worth watching.
Joe
I thought NPR was National Public Radio. I didn't know
they also broadcast television shows.
Or did you mean to refer to PBS, the Public
Broadcasting System which does provide telecasts of
Norm Abrams' New Yankee Workshop and a woodturning
show. I just found the woodturning show and it is
different from the woodturning show on DIY.
I thought the David Marks' woodworking show was a DIY
network series. Did his show ever appear on PBS or
NPR? :-)
It appears it will be a dry season for woodworking
shows.
John Flatley
--
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| Joe:
|
| NPR which is not
| > premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still
get the same amount
| > of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send
them yet more
| > money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to
appear regularly.
|
| You probably read the answer about Dave Marks. It was
decided
| some time ago, that he was going to halt. Anyways,
I'll give
| you my view about NPR. First off, each station in the
NPR
| network, decides its schedules. If they want to drop
NYW or TOH,
| it's up to them. Your local stations probably do
viewer profiles and
| got
| a feeling that these shows don't draw an audience big
enough
| to serve.
|
| The NPR stations get money from YOU and the Feds.
That's why they
| beg. I don't like it,but the other alternative is do
what a lot
| of other nations do - tax you and they hand out the
dough. If you
| would contact your local stations, about the shows,
(a letter might
| work), it would
| register better than protesting in a news group.
(just my 2 cents).
|
| Now NYW and TOH are owned either jointly or outright
by Time Warner
| and Marsh Productions. They sell the SHOWs to your
local
| friendly NPR channel. The local channel has to PAY
them. The Gov't
| doesn't own the production or pay the "stars", etc.
I would
| imagine that each show is in the neighborhood of
| about $250,000 to produce. That means, writing,
scripting,
| editing, on air talent, directing, etc. Probably even
more.
| A lot of money to recover!
|
| I think over time, a lot of these shows are going to
be available
| on a subscription basis over the Internet. Already,
you can
| see "Lost" episodes a week after they are broadcasted
and
| there will be more of this. I would imagine that
Marsh and
| Time-Warner are trying to figure out how to get their
| content (their shows) into the public more and make
| more money. Would you pay $1.99 to download an
episode
| to your computer and watch it? If you would, drop the
show's
| owners a line.
|
| Bottom line, if you don't like what you see, let your
| cable and satellite company know!
|
| MJ Wallace
|
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:13:10 GMT, JMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>
>J. Clarke wrote:
>
>
> > NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>
>So?
>
>The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B).
>The CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).
>
>The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
>rounding error.
>
>In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
>appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.
>
Well, just from your comment alone, cutting CPB budget would more than
pay for that $250M Alaskan Bridge to nowhere.
>Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.
>
>http://thebudgetgraph.com/
Saving money starts one dollar at a time. The origin of CPB occured when
there were only 3 major networks. Most US citizens now have access to
100's of channels (and still there's nothing on worth watching at times).
It's way past time to review this relic of the 50s and determine whether or
not we might be able to save 1/3 of a Billion dollars per year by
recommending that this become a for-profit venture with advertising, or
remain non-profit, but change its programming model to include commercial
sponsorship.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
In article <[email protected]>,
J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Uh where do you think the money the feds give them comes from?
>
>As for the "other alternative", the "other alternative" is to pull the
>plug on them. With more than a thousand channels available on just
>about any cable system, why do we need one more that's government
>subsidized?
>
For one thing, believe it ot not, not everyone has cable or satellite.
Of those 1000 channels, how many have locally oriented programming that
really means anything to your community? In my city, the local commercial
channels have news shows a couple times a day where they pretty much
repeat headlines from the local paper. They do a credible job with
the weather but as far as any depth of reporting on local news &
events, forget it. OTOH, the public TV station & NPR radio station
have real and detailed local content for a signifcant part of their
programming day and the national programming they carry is often of
a type that is simply no longer played on commercial stations. They do
have some ads but in length, quality, and content, they are nothing
like the obnoxious advertising on the commercial channels.
If you examine the FCC policies and regulations it is apparent ALL
broadcasters & spectrum users are subsidized, perhaps some less directly
than others, but on the whole the system is very much geared towards
providing benefits to business rather than the consumers. I don't believe
that the small amount of federal funding public radio and TV receives
is misspent. Public broadcasting provides a valuable service, at least
in my area. If these stations had the plug pulled, it is highly
unlikely that commercial broadcasters would step up to replace that.
--
Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
--Benjamin Franklin
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:50:48 -0600, Ol Pete <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2007-01-31 11:12:49 -0600, Brian Henderson
><[email protected]> said:
>>
>> And all of those channels are paid for and supposedly making a profit
>> through the advertisers and are popular enough with the viewers to
>> stay on the air. PBS and similar "public" stations simply are not,
>> they would fail in a minute if they were left to their own devices.
>>
>> They shouldn't get a penny of federal funding, period. If enough
>> people don't want to watch them, then why bother having them around to
>> begin with? I'm sure channels like DIY would be more than happy to
>> pick up TOH and NYW first-run.
>
>How much money for "public" stations comes from the government? Not a
>whole lot anymore. How much free money do other stations receive? Great
>gobs of it depending how you calculate the subsidies, handouts and
>propaganda payoffs.
>
You wouldn't mind then, if this conservative asks you for some facts to
back up your assertions. Also a few definitions should be in order; for
example what the @#$% is a "propaganda payoff"? ... and "free money"? A
little documentation regarding federal subsidies to network television
stations would be in order as well.
Seems that, as someone pointed out earlier the $300+ million going to
public television is not exactly chump change coming from the federal
government. My guess is that number does not include money funneled
through various colleges that support production of various programming for
public television.
>Your analysis reminds me of the sort of spin conservative talk radio
>progpagates. It isn't reality based but it sure is emotionally
>satisfying.
>
Well, most conservative talk radio seems to deal with more facts than the
wild assertions you are making above. Although I can certainly see your
point, given how incredibly successful the conservative candidates were
this past election cycle, one would expect huge propaganda payments to be
flowing into those other stations.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Ol Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Your analysis reminds me of the sort of spin conservative talk radio
> progpagates. It isn't reality based but it sure is emotionally satisfying.
>
Closer to reality than people who speak of "avoiding taxes" and "not paying
a fair share" and "corporate welfare" as if money were never earned, only
granted by government denying that moneys diverted from the revenue stream
are as much a subsidy as money allocated.
todd wrote:
> "JMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GD7wh.9953$Hb6.9363@trndny02...
>> The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The
>> CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).
>>
>> The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
>> rounding error.
>>
>> In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
>> appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.
>>
>> Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.
>>
>> http://thebudgetgraph.com/
>
> Since it's so insignificant, please multiply your family income by .036% and
> mail it to me. Email me for the address.
>
> todd
>
>
Enjoy the tank and a half of gas it will buy, you tool. Percentage
effect and the law of large numbers.
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:13:10 GMT, JMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>
>J. Clarke wrote:
>
>
> > NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>
>So?
>
>The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B).
>The CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).
>
>The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
>rounding error.
>
>In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
>appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.
>
>Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.
>
>http://thebudgetgraph.com/
What "zeal"? Personally I don't give a hoot in Hell about it. But I
don't understand what purpose it is supposed to serve either.
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:01:48 -0500, Joe Bleau <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:39:45 -0500, Leuf <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>Then there's the "Look, it's a Festool sander. It's better than
>>yours. Too bad you'll never be able to afford it" and the "Let's see
>>how many ways we can use a pocket hole jig. Some of them even make
>>sense!"
>I agree. I recognized the commercial promotion. The guy spent hours
>making pocket holes to build a mantle. <snip>
That's the one I was referring to. There was another where the guy
basically just sanded a panel with a Festool sander for a minute, then
they paused to tell us that ad for Festool was brought to you by
Festool. The guy did have some skills going after the bevel edges of
the panel with the ROS. Or possibly he destroyed the thing. Too
small and blurry to tell.
I realize they have to have ads, and it's better to have them be
related to the subject. People are smart enough to figure out what's
an ad.
I really enjoyed the turning "scoop" or whatever he called it.
-Leuf
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
> money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
> I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
> what the fed provides.
Judging from the Taj Mahal built for upper management's offices here, what
they really *need* is to lose the arrogance that comes with suckling on the
public tit.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/27/07
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:02:08 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
> You wouldn't mind then, if this conservative asks you for some facts to
>back up your assertions. Also a few definitions should be in order; for
>example what the @#$% is a "propaganda payoff"? ... and "free money"? A
>little documentation regarding federal subsidies to network television
>stations would be in order as well.
It's something he made up. What do you expect from liberals?
> Seems that, as someone pointed out earlier the $300+ million going to
>public television is not exactly chump change coming from the federal
>government. My guess is that number does not include money funneled
>through various colleges that support production of various programming for
>public television.
The simple fact is that public television cannot compete in a free
marketplace. If it was left to it's own devices and required to have
advertising to support it, it would be off the air in 3 months. There
simply aren't enough people watching it to make it a viable commercial
entity. You know something? Maybe this relic of the 50s should go
the way of the dinosaurs. If it cannot compete in the free market, it
shouldn't exist at all.
> Well, most conservative talk radio seems to deal with more facts than the
>wild assertions you are making above. Although I can certainly see your
>point, given how incredibly successful the conservative candidates were
>this past election cycle, one would expect huge propaganda payments to be
>flowing into those other stations.
Again, what do you expect from liberals? They're always long on
emotion and short on facts.
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:15:04 GMT, JMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>Mark & Juanita wrote:
> > Well, just from your comment alone, cutting CPB budget would more than
>> pay for that $250M Alaskan Bridge to nowhere.
>
>And that is a good thing? Just trying to understand if you are tough,
>dumb or both.
>
Did I indicate anywhere that I thought the Alaskan Bridge pork project
was a good idea? I was merely pointing out that it is somewhat ludicrous
to point out one person's pork as a means of justifying another person's
pork.
OTOH, I've also gotta believe there's a bit more to the Alaskan bridge
story (or it at least deserves equal consideration with the Kleagle Byrd's
freeway).
>
>>
>> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>>
>> If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
>>
>> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:15:15 -0500, J. Clarke <[email protected]>
wrote:
>As for the "other alternative", the "other alternative" is to pull the
>plug on them. With more than a thousand channels available on just
>about any cable system, why do we need one more that's government
>subsidized?
And all of those channels are paid for and supposedly making a profit
through the advertisers and are popular enough with the viewers to
stay on the air. PBS and similar "public" stations simply are not,
they would fail in a minute if they were left to their own devices.
They shouldn't get a penny of federal funding, period. If enough
people don't want to watch them, then why bother having them around to
begin with? I'm sure channels like DIY would be more than happy to
pick up TOH and NYW first-run.
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:06:21 -0500, Joe Bleau <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 31 Jan 2007 05:57:50 -0800, "Olebiker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Our local PBS channel in Tallahassee (also on Comcast cable) carries
>>NYW. Have you checked out The Woodworking Channel at http://
>>www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/
>>
>>Dick Durbin
>
>
>Wow! Thanks a lot for turning me on to thewoodworkingchannel.com. I
>went to check it out and ended up watching 2 hours of programming.
>Screw NPR, CPB, PBS, Comcast, Direct TV and all the rest of the
>dinosaur media. The future is upon us.
The future repeats itself continously, pausing sporadically to buffer?
Don't get me wrong there's some neat stuff sprinkled in there.
Then there's the "Look, it's a Festool sander. It's better than
yours. Too bad you'll never be able to afford it" and the "Let's see
how many ways we can use a pocket hole jig. Some of them even make
sense!"
-Leuf
On 31 Jan 2007 18:02:29 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on
>> donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the
>> sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.
>
>Not sure what the point is. First off, the tax deductions are
>controlled
>by individuals, not by government. In that, you chose to send
>money to whoever you want to - religious or
>other charity organizations. So to claim that
>these groups GET support from the government because you get
>a deduction on your taxes, is odd. Tho, in a way, I could see it
>as making sure that SOME of YOUR money is diverted from the federal
>budget to your local charity. If that's what you mean, I agree.
>But where I disagree is that in some way means that there is
>support from the federal government because of tax deductions is
>a bit hard for me to follow.
What you're missing is that the government decides what is and is not
a charity eligible for deductible donations. By deciding that PBS or
NPR stations are eligible they are willingly foregoing tax revenue.
>The product placement is the "price of admission" for Delta or other
>corporations to contribute to the PRODUCTION (I bet) of the show.
>There
>might be SOME money coming to the local stations, but I would think
>it would be in the reduced cost of buying the series. If your local
>PBS station got NYW for $200g for the season WITHOUT
>Delta's ads or for $100g WITH the ads, guess which one they
>will chose?
>
>MJ Wallace
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:48:05 -0500, "John Flatley"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I thought NPR was National Public Radio. I didn't know
>they also broadcast television shows.
>
>Or did you mean to refer to PBS, the Public
>Broadcasting System which does provide telecasts of
>Norm Abrams' New Yankee Workshop and a woodturning
>show. I just found the woodturning show and it is
>different from the woodturning show on DIY.
>
>I thought the David Marks' woodworking show was a DIY
>network series. Did his show ever appear on PBS or
>NPR? :-)
>
>It appears it will be a dry season for woodworking
>shows.
NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>
>John Flatley
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:38:36 GMT, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"JMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GD7wh.9953$Hb6.9363@trndny02...
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>>
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>
>> > NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
>>
>> So?
>>
>> The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The
>> CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).
>>
>> The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a
>> rounding error.
>>
>> In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more
>> appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.
>>
>> Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.
>>
>> http://thebudgetgraph.com/
>
>Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on
>donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the
>sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.
The "underwriters" of the show provide money for the production of the
show. they are allowed recognition that is regulated with regard to
both length and content. It is appropriate that the show use the
equipment that the underwriter has supplied, without any additional
promotion other than its normal use. The opportunity for exaggeration
or downright lying is nonexistent. It is a legitimate business
expense.
OTOH Those underwriters could choose to forego the PBS productions and
take out additional ads in FWW or other Mags. Or they could sponsor a
race car, with opportunities to wine and dine their larger
distributors These are also legitimate business expenses and all
manner of exaggeration and other activities that do not further the
end users knowledge are prevalent.
I believe I would encourage the former.
How many of you make your tool buying decisions based on what you see
on a NASCAR hood?
Frank
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George wrote:
>>
>> Depends on your tax situation whether you report it as advertising
>> expense, which it can be here, or as donation.
>
> How's that, George?
>
> We're talking about a business expense in either case.
>
> I eagerly await your explanation.
Not for tax here. BTDT, hope the accountants were right, or the statute of
limitations has expired.
On 31 Jan 2007 05:57:50 -0800, "Olebiker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Our local PBS channel in Tallahassee (also on Comcast cable) carries
>NYW. Have you checked out The Woodworking Channel at http://
>www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/
>
>Dick Durbin
Wow! Thanks a lot for turning me on to thewoodworkingchannel.com. I
went to check it out and ended up watching 2 hours of programming.
Screw NPR, CPB, PBS, Comcast, Direct TV and all the rest of the
dinosaur media. The future is upon us.
Joe
On 31 Jan 2007 21:09:36 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> What you're missing is that the government decides what is and is not
>> a charity eligible for deductible donations. By deciding that PBS or
>> NPR stations are eligible they are willingly foregoing tax revenue.
>
>I understand that, but were you making the point that federal
>tax dollars in some indirect way (thru tax deductions) were
>flowing to PBS stations? If so, I disagree. Listing as
>a tax deductable non-profit org. is a listing on the
>federal tax register. No money goes to my favorite
>charity or non-profit unless I MAKE it so. The
>government is neutral. It doesn''t care less if I give
>to a religious or save-the-whales org. There's no
>direct support other than how YOU decide.
>
>The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your
>money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations,
>I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then
>what the fed provides.
So you're saying that the Corporation for Public Broadcasting gets no
money from the government? When did that stop?
>MJ Wallace
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:23:53 +0000, LRod <[email protected]>
wrote:
>As has already been pointed out, you almost surely mean PBS. And "two
>weeks a year?" It must be at least two weeks per quarter, maybe more.
>I'd be happy if it was only two weeks a year.
Back before I utterly gave up on PBS, I swear it was 2 weeks a month.
It just never ended.