I love hand saws, and I cannot afford them, so I find them for $5 - $7 in thrift shops
and some from eBay, and have them sharpened, As yet to learn the skill I bought the
Veritas Jointer/edger and the 8" file for it (also bought some other stuff from LV too).
I struck it lucky a few times with saws so far, the two best are a Disston D-23 (big
wow you say?) straight back with an apple wood handle and 9 ppi, last made in 1928.
http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/d23page.html
Also a Simonds #10-1/2 skew back and 8 ppi with a thicker blade and wider at the
butt, beech handle. Seen at the bottom of theis page:
http://www.geocities.com/sawnutz/simonds/handsaws.htm Except there is a difference
from mine and the photo image, mine has the badge in the middle, not at the bottom.
Maybe it's a later make.
Both blades have new sharpenings, the Disston has been used several times as such
and the Simonds only one cross cut through a DF 4x4.
(digital caliper and metric conversion software)
Disston D-23
blade thickness at the butt:
0.037" or 0.94mm (MC: 0.9398mm)
blade thickness at the tip:
0.027.5 or 0.70mm (MC: 0.6858mm)
Set width at the butt, to both sides:
0.057" or 1.45mm (MC: 1.4478mm)
Set width at the tip, to both sides:
0.048.5" or 1.24mm (MC: 1.2192mm)
This blade actually tapers from thickness to thinness from back to tip...Anyone think
it's from wear, or engineered that way?
Simonds #10-1/2
blade thickness at the butt:
0.038" or 0.97mm (MC: 0.9652mm)
blade thickness at the tip:
0.035.5" or 0.85mm (MC: 0.889mm)
Set width at the butt, to both sides:
0.062" or 1.58mm (MC: 1.5748mm)
Set width at the tip, to both sides:
0.066" or 1.68mm (MC: 1.6764mm)
If anyone can apply this, the Disston cuts like a hot knife through butter, very sweetly
and smoothly. Whereas the Simonds cuts like a disaster to be dealt with, it gets stuck,
hard to start, very rough, with the new sharpening used once. Can anyone tell me why
this is? I feel betrayed.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
AAvK wrote:
> I love hand saws, and I cannot afford them, so I find them for $5 - $7 in thrift shops
> and some from eBay,
> I struck it lucky a few times
>
> Disston D-23
> This blade actually tapers from thickness to thinness from back to tip...Anyone think
> it's from wear, or engineered that way?
> the Disston cuts like a hot knife through butter, very sweetly
> and smoothly. Whereas the Simonds cuts like a disaster to be dealt with, it gets stuck,
> hard to start, very rough, with the new sharpening used once. Can anyone tell me why
> this is?
I love handsaws too.
I have at least 6 D-23s, several D-8s. About 40 or 50 saws all
together.,,55?
The Disston saws are absolutely engineered to perform. Just because
they're old doesn't mean they are not up to the quality of engineering
available today. Disston had their own steel mill and made blades for
every body. Warranted Superiors are a Second line of the Disston
company. The Disstons actually used to advertise their "Taper Grind
Saws" as less likely to hang up in the cut. It works for me.
Tom in KY, with 34 saws hanging on my bedroom walls right now. My kids
call it the Cracker Barrel bedroom.
Ba r r y wrote:
>
> I'm not so sure the "quality of engineering today" is a great
> comparison for hand tools.
>
> Today's average hand tools are typically "value engineered" versions
> of old tools, made with crappy materials as quickly as possible.
Agreed, a roll of steel cut into the shape of saw blades does not
scream of quality to me. The engineering now is non-existent on the
final product. The engineering is in the manufacturing process,
eliminating some foreigner's job :-)
Also, the handles, heh; used to be a rip saw had a handle at least 1"
thick. Now you see 3/4" or less.
Tom in KY, when I think about saws, I think, my old saw can kick your
new saws a$$.
Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> The only handsaw I like better than the old Disstons are the old Atkins
> "Silver Steel" saws - the cut just as well as a Disston and they seem
> to be much more resistant to rust.
I've got one Atkins saw. I'd have a bunch more if they were more
plentiful around here. If you find yourself swamped and can't around
your shop for all of the Atkins saws, I'll take a few off of your
hands. But Only if I have to. ..please.
Tom in KY, maybe not totally brand loyal :-)
The rough saw is sharpened wrong. Learn the basics and you can do it
better yourself. A triangular file and vise are all the tools you need.
Use scrap boards to hold the saw in the vise. Once you get the feel for
the angle of cut you can make a smooth cutting blade. Study the angles
on the good saw teeth.
Bugs
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> I have a handsaw marked "Olympic" on the blade. I don't have
> it handy but it also says stuff like "taper ground" and "handmade".
> The medallion says "warranted superior" but with an empty middle - no
> emblem.
>
> I thought it might be a private label made by Disston, but then I found
> a saw I know was made in England and it has the same type medallion.
> So "warranted superior" seems to have been a common phrase.
>
> I can't find "Olympic" in the handsaw history book and the owner of one
> of the handsaw websites had never heard of it either.
>
The English Disston connection is Sandvick, check my spelling, They
still produce a saw somewhat comparable to an old Disston. The price
reflects the quality. *Probably* the best saw on the market right now.
Tom in KY, saw nut.
AAvK wrote:
> Sandvik is now Bahco, and what they make are only modern tech "hard point" saws
> that cannot be sharpened, just like Stanley:
See how old I am?
> I would like to see the saw you're talking about.
It would probably be about 20 years old. My further research (after
running my mouth too much with brain only half firing) came up the
same.
I wonder how many manufacturers were smart enough to pick up some of
Disston's old lore and tout their saws to be the best made? The
Sandviks I've had the pleasure to use, looked just like the plastic
handled Disston saws, like the D-95, wich I only have one of.
Tom in KY, too quick on the draw again.
[email protected] wrote:
> The Disston saws are absolutely engineered to perform. Just because
> they're old doesn't mean they are not up to the quality of engineering
> available today.
The only handsaw I like better than the old Disstons are the old Atkins
"Silver Steel" saws - the cut just as well as a Disston and they seem
to be much more resistant to rust. I've never found one with more than
a very light partial coat of rust. Sometimes the only way I can
identify a Disston is by the medallion, the blade is total rust.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Square Eye wrote:
>
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>
>> The only handsaw I like better than the old Disstons are the old
>> Atkins "Silver Steel" saws - the cut just as well as a Disston and
>> they seem to be much more resistant to rust.
>
> I've got one Atkins saw. I'd have a bunch more if they were more
> plentiful around here. If you find yourself swamped and can't around
> your shop for all of the Atkins saws, I'll take a few off of your
> hands. But Only if I have to. ..please.
>
Sorry, they're not that common around here either. I've got a grand
total of two :-).
I'm a sucker for old saws at estate sales :-). I keep saying I'm going
to sharpen them all and sell them on Ebay, but I never seem to find the
time.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
AAvK wrote:
>
>> The only handsaw I like better than the old Disstons are the old
>> Atkins "Silver Steel" saws
>
>
> If you feel that way about them compared to the great Disstons, I'll
> keep a lookout for one or two. Thanks for the impressions.
>
A little shift in topic. I think I asked here before, but I'll try
again. I have a handsaw marked "Olympic" on the blade. I don't have
it handy but it also says stuff like "taper ground" and "handmade".
The medallion says "warranted superior" but with an empty middle - no
emblem.
I thought it might be a private label made by Disston, but then I found
a saw I know was made in England and it has the same type medallion.
So "warranted superior" seems to have been a common phrase.
I can't find "Olympic" in the handsaw history book and the owner of one
of the handsaw websites had never heard of it either.
Anyone know anything about Olympic saws?
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Squarei4dtoolguy wrote:
> The English Disston connection is Sandvick, check my spelling, They
> still produce a saw somewhat comparable to an old Disston. The price
> reflects the quality. *Probably* the best saw on the market right now.
I know about Sandvik, but that's not what I've got. Mine is from an old
manufacturer that went out of business about a hundred years ago :-).
Made other things than saws, cutlery IIRC.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
> I know about Sandvik, but that's not what I've got. Mine is from an
> old manufacturer that went out of business about a hundred years ago
> :-). Made other things than saws, cutlery IIRC.
>
OK, a followup. I was out in the shop and checked my English saw. The
blade is engraved (or more likely stamped) with "Jos Haywood & Co" in
an arc with "Sheffield" below it. To the left of this is "improved"
and to the right is "cast steel". The saw has the old split nuts, so
it's probably quite old. Disston and, IIRC, most other American
manufacturers quit using split nuts about 1875. I doubt if England was
too far ahead or behind.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> The Disston saws are absolutely engineered to perform. Just because
>> they're old doesn't mean they are not up to the quality of
>> engineering
>> available today.
>
> The only handsaw I like better than the old Disstons are the old
> Atkins
> "Silver Steel" saws - the cut just as well as a Disston and they seem
> to be much more resistant to rust. I've never found one with more
> than
> a very light partial coat of rust. Sometimes the only way I can
> identify a Disston is by the medallion, the blade is total rust.
Hooboy! I gots one of each! Belonged to my late grandfather.
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston
> The English Disston connection is Sandvick, check my spelling, They
> still produce a saw somewhat comparable to an old Disston. The price
> reflects the quality. *Probably* the best saw on the market right now.
>
> Tom in KY, saw nut.
>
Sandvik is now Bahco, and what they make are only modern tech "hard point" saws
that cannot be sharpened, just like Stanley:
http://extranet.bahco.com/CONndc.asp?Save_UID=1&wp=&GotoCat=true&cmbLanguage=12
I would like to see the saw you're talking about.
On the other hand, Lynx makes taper ground blades, but who knows what the RC is.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
> The only handsaw I like better than the old Disstons are the old Atkins
> "Silver Steel" saws - the cut just as well as a Disston and they seem
> to be much more resistant to rust. I've never found one with more than
> a very light partial coat of rust. Sometimes the only way I can
> identify a Disston is by the medallion, the blade is total rust.
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down
If you feel that way about them compared to the great Disstons, I'll keep a
lookout for one or two. Thanks for the impressions.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
> The rough saw is sharpened wrong. Learn the basics and you can do it
> better yourself. A triangular file and vise are all the tools you need.
> Use scrap boards to hold the saw in the vise. Once you get the feel for
> the angle of cut you can make a smooth cutting blade. Study the angles
> on the good saw teeth.
> Bugs
>
Yeah, the Simonds was sharpened by Daily saw service, somewhere in California
and I think the set is too wide. Not an expert yet, but I hope to get there.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
> I love handsaws too.
>
> I have at least 6 D-23s, several D-8s. About 40 or 50 saws all
> together.,,55?
I also have a later 30's-40's D-23 with the beech handle, 11 ppi but
it's got a lot of "rust rise" mounds. Sad.
> The Disston saws are absolutely engineered to perform. Just because
> they're old doesn't mean they are not up to the quality of engineering
> available today.
I don't think anything is that good as far as western saws.
> Disston had their own steel mill and made blades for
> every body. Warranted Superiors are a Second line of the Disston
> company. The Disstons actually used to advertise their "Taper Grind
> Saws" as less likely to hang up in the cut. It works for me.
I can see why it works well, widening the kerf on the push stroke, and
releasing on the pull. It makes it entirely natural.
> Tom in KY, with 34 saws hanging on my bedroom walls right now. My kids
> call it the Cracker Barrel bedroom.
>
Too cool!
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
> Agreed, a roll of steel cut into the shape of saw blades does not
> scream of quality to me. The engineering now is non-existent on the
> final product. The engineering is in the manufacturing process,
> eliminating some foreigner's job :-)
>
> Also, the handles, heh; used to be a rip saw had a handle at least 1"
> thick. Now you see 3/4" or less.
>
> Tom in KY, when I think about saws, I think, my old saw can kick your
> new saws a$$.
>
I have this little great neck hand saw with an 18"-20" blade, and the sharpness
wears down much too quickly. The steel must RC 42-48, rediculous. So
nowadays they use the same rolls of steel, only when the blade is done they use
"impulse hardening" to compensate. It's a waste of metal and wood, and there
ought to be a law against it.
Ain't nuthin' like cast sheet spring steel of RC 60! This was all American
perfection.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
On 13 Jan 2006 08:49:36 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>. Just because
>they're old doesn't mean they are not up to the quality of engineering
>available today.
I'm not so sure the "quality of engineering today" is a great
comparison for hand tools.
Today's average hand tools are typically "value engineered" versions
of old tools, made with crappy materials as quickly as possible.
Today's good and excellent hand tools are typically based on old
designs and made with care.
Even Lie-Nielsen's "new" line of chisels are based on old Stanley
products.
Saws, chisels, and planes really aren't rocket science, but it does
cost a decent sum to make them right! <G>
Barry